TNT 2: Devilution (Final beta released)

[GooberMan]

Just poking my head in to say that MAP30 does things to my port. Short story: I treat every texture and flat as a composite and cache them in to memory. Cool. But I also convert each texture to every light level before the level starts (saving a COLORMAP lookup at render time), which means I use 32 times more memory than a normal software renderer. End of the day: I chew up 4 gigs of memory.

 

 

Had to do work on the zone allocator in fact, which was still using 32-bit signed integers for memory tracking instead of size_t. But I got it running at least.
 

Doing the math, that means that a normal software renderer would need 128 megabytes of memory to keep everything loaded all at once. And after a bit of googling, it turns out that there were 486s back in the day that had 128 megs. So if you were super rich/freeloading off a work machine/etc you could have played this map back in the day without incurring constant cycling of textures from memory.

 

I also found an instance of the midtex bleed bug that eluded me for a while before fixing it, which made me unreasonably happy to see it in Chocolate Doom and not Rum & Raisin.

 

 

Anyway, this mapset is looking like a beast from what I've seen. Looking forward to the full release. Probably won't have much time to do a proper playthrough and report bugs at the moment, as you might gather from this post my main interest is in making sure the thing actually runs.

[(S)pain]

Just completed the WAD, it's amazing! And ready to be launched, only Map 26 remains for that. Really liked Map 30 concept.

 

No bugs were found in my quest personally.

[Marcaek]

Public Beta 3 is now available. This version contains the following updates: CHANGELOG 

 

EDIT: link updated with more standard filenames

Edited November 4, 2022 by Marcaek

[hawkwind]

Having another look at this again ...

Using GZDoom.

Map 01 ...

There needs a mirrored texture for MIDBLOOD, and the Y alignment for this tex need adjustment.

Map02 ...

Suggestion - increase the floor height of sector 21 ( and of course change the floor flat ). Lowering a lift to the level of a liquid is a bit naff. The floor of the lift should get wet ... ;) .

Edited November 4, 2022 by hawkwind

[Bob9001]

Finally map 26 wooo!

[Firedust]

5 hours ago, Bob9001 said:

Finally map 26 wooo!

Preview, not the actual map ;)

[hawkwind]

Map03 ...

 

1. Line 2726 needs either its front or back sidedef a Y offset of 65, so the pipes line up both sides.

2. REDOPEN tex could use a mirrored/flipped graphic.

 

Map 01 again ...

I forgot to mention a gzdoom hardware accelerated glitch at sector 28 before sector 136 lowers.

 

Map04 ...

 

Is scrolling on lines 2288/2011 intended ?

 

Map05 ...

 

1. BUG - render error at sector 529. Sector 529 needs a floor height of -40 and lines 1360, 2744 and 997

need the impassible flag.

 

2. ISSUE - Bear in mind that many ports have disabled infinite height actors. With these ports, players can walk over the flaming barrel

at sector 551. For "compatibility", lines around sector 551 could be flagged impassible.

 

3. I had to use the editor to realise that sector 3049 was a lowering floor. The only vague clue was at sectors 515 and 554.

 

4. Minor ... Front sidedefs of lines 2172, 2884 and 2464 should use the tex DOBWIRE3, then X aligned.

 

Map06 ...

 

Near impossible ( was impossible for me ) to get from the switch at line 1598 to door sector 979. I suggest using

linetype 63 instead. Without using an editor, players are not going to know that sector 979 is a door anyway.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by hawkwind

[blob1024]

wow, this looks promising!

are 100% secrets accessible in map06? missing how to return to bfg area and invulnerability access, but maybe it's just me.

 

in map01 i have a cacodemon sleeping on teleporter in first area in several playthroughs

[hawkwind]

39 minutes ago, blob1024 said:

 

are 100% secrets accessible in map06?

Yes, I always test for all secrets.

 

in map01 i have a cacodemon sleeping on teleporter in first area in several playthroughs

I'm guessing T171 teleporting to sector 501. Now I noticed that the Teleport Thing is flagged Ambush players ? ...

 

[hawkwind]

Map 08 ...

 

1. Minor alignment at line 2878

2. Sector 378 is tagged #43 but there is no linetag #43.

Is straferunning required/intentional to reach said sector ?

 

Map 09 ...

 

I highly suggest changing the textures on lines 1458-1461 to SUPPGBR1, This would now

link to the only green torch, giving a clue.

 

Map 13 ...

 

1. Lift sectors 204 and 207 lower to liquid level. Why not make them like lift sector 215 ?

2. Upper of line 5442 not aligned. Would need a slight rework to fix.

3. T415  - soulsphere - renders into the bars. Suggest moving it a bit east to sector 111.

4. Keys - map has 2yk's, 2bk's, 2rk's, and 1 of each skullkey ?

 

Map 14 ...

 

1. Wrong door tex on lines 2323 and 58. Should be DOORJOEY. Or change the linetype to 1, 63 or 114.

2. Possible compat issue ... When at sector 709, mouselook is needed to shoot line 2680. Or am I missing something ?

3. STATILEA on line 932 would look better with a Y offset of -16.

4. Minor - lift sector 351 lowers to water level. Not a good look IMO.

 

Map 15 ...

 

1. The back-sidedefs of lines 4518, 2769 and 5215 ( MIDBRS1B ) needs an X alignment..

2. The back-sidedef of line 3828 ( MIDBARS4 ) needs an X alignment of 24 to match the other side.

3. Note MIDBARS at vertices 3440 and 3032.

 

Map 32 ...

 

1. SW1/2BRCOM fourth switch texture needs a slight rework. Note the effect when using this at line 2480. The switch drops slightly.

2. Played on easy. Could only get 166/167 kills. T93 Archvile, was still in its closet. Might have something to do with the seeming

impossiblility to get to sector 11. AV jump ?

 

Map 16 ...

 

1. For opengl users, sector 437's ceiling could be raised a bit. Monsters heads in ceiling.

2. Another case where REDOPEN could use a mirrored/flipped texture.

3. Impossible ? to get to sector 223 to activate line 1786 and the only archvile in the map is multiplayer.

 

Map 18 ...

 

1. Lines 5183 and 772 need a Y offset of 0.

2. Strange place for a switch at line 542.

3. Minor - another map where MIDBLOOD could have used a mirror/flipped graphic.

 

Map 19 ...

 

1. I think sectors 403 and 292 would look better flood-filled i.e. no lower textures.

2. Lift sector 485 lowers to blood level. Why not increase the floor height of sector 612 and give it a "solid"

floor flat.

3. POSSIBLE SERIOUS BUG - Upon returning to sector 733 and door sectors 927 and 928 were already open, the ceiling beyond rendered like a massive slime trail, and the player was blocked at lines 6064 and 6071. Not sure what went wrong there. And I was as a result, softlocked.

A SOLUTION - Give sidedefs 8692 and 8700 an upper texture and lower unpeg lines 6056, 6065, 6072 and 6068.

4. AV jump required to get to secret sector 44 ? I cannot see any other way. If impossible, would also mean secret sector 121 is impossible to get.

Edited November 11, 2022 by hawkwind

[Sokoro]

Can someone explain, what is the problem with map26? Cant you just replace it with ugly experimental map (like original TNT did with habbitat) and claim cacoward? Anyway from the screenshots it looks like my cup of coffee and I am eager to play it when full version gets released. Thank you for this gem.

[OpenRift]

13 minutes ago, Sokoro said:

Can someone explain, what is the problem with map26? Cant you just replace it with ugly experimental map (like original TNT did with habbitat) and claim cacoward? Anyway from the screenshots it looks like my cup of coffee and I am eager to play it when full version gets released. Thank you for this gem.

Read here

[General Roasterock]

What exactly was the reasoning for changing the starting position of Map 01 from the first Beta? I feel like I could accidentally ignore everything that went into the unique texturing and theatrics involving what happens with the Icon's face, not to mention the titlecard, just by walking backwards into the one way teleport. It demolishes the timing of that opening sequence, which is a clear and present work of art, and obviously not easy to pull off in vanilla.

[Tycitron]

27 minutes ago, General Roasterock said:

What exactly was the reasoning for changing the starting position of Map 01 from the first Beta? I feel like I could accidentally ignore everything that went into the unique texturing and theatrics involving what happens with the Icon's face, not to mention the titlecard, just by walking backwards into the one way teleport. It demolishes the timing of that opening sequence, which is a clear and present work of art, and obviously not easy to pull off in vanilla.

I Agree, if i want anything changed i would like the start position to be put back to the spot it was in beta1.

[hawkwind]

Map 20 ...

 

1. Any reason why lines 3104 and 2819 have different Y offsets ?

2. Many "doors" did not have their sides lower unpegged. Intentional ?

3. BRNSMAL3 should be on sidedef 4083.

4. Player can get trapped at x 3362 y -11442 if both sectors 255 and 257 are closed.

5. BRNSMAL3 should be on sidedef 6250.

6. Sidedef 2562 needs an Y offset of 16. Stand at x 4331 y -4019 and view vertex 1614.

 

Map 23 ...

 

1. I don't think it possible to get to secret sector 48. The nearest AV is at sector 124 and seems impossible to get there, even when the plat is moving up and down. Similar for sector 567.

2. Played on easy. Killed 183/185. Searched and searched but could not find the other 2 ...

 

Map 24 ...

 

Switch texture on line 3427 I feel should be clearly displayed. It is not there for a secret. This switch is necessary to eventually exit the level.

 

Map 25 ...

 

1. Make line 1348 lower unpegged, so as to behave like line 2797 - other side of "door".

2. Not a good look to have sky as the floor of sector 423. Tends to "bounce" when sector lowers, in gzdoom at least.

3. Remove lower unpeg flag from lines around sector 210.

4. Line 1594 could be flagged show 1 sided on automap.

 

Map 26 ...

 

1. Blue line at vertex 3845 in hardware mode.

2. Control sectors at  x 4448 y -2208 could be flagged not shown on automap.

 

Map 27 ...

 

SW1/2BRCOM issue here too. See report for map 32.

 

Map 28 ...

 

Not a bug but ... Lift sector 102 lowers to liquid level ...

Edited November 13, 2022 by hawkwind

[Catpho]

Hi. There's this visual bug in 05, near one of the boats in the path you go in after you get the megasphere near the lava column, when I was playing in Crispy Doom 5.12, although I'm not sure if it isn't already covered in Hawkwind's editor-speak post. Just leaving it here then:

Spoiler

By the way, that barrel trap in the same map. I liked it, but it's metagame-y as hell; not what i expected from a TNT sequel, but then again I only ever touched TNT once, and I don't have especially fond memories =) Was there any moment like that in the orignal wad?

[hawkwind]

1 hour ago, Catpho said:

Hi. There's this visual bug in 05, near one of the boats in the path you go in after you get the megasphere near the lava column, when I was playing in Crispy Doom 5.12, although I'm not sure if it isn't already covered in Hawkwind's editor-speak post. Just leaving it here then:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Yep ! Already covered. And the fix. Thanks for the pic though. ;)

Edited November 13, 2022 by hawkwind

[hawkwind]

Map 29 ...

 

1. Small vertical strip at vertex 1740 in hardware mode.

2. Possibly line 3158 might need a Y adjustment. Compare line 1989.

3. Give lines 164, 999, 1466 and 1467 a Y offset of 62. This hides the black strip where these lines

meet the blood floor. Just looks better IMO.

 

Map 30 ...

 

1. A bit naff having the "glass" as a switch at the beginning I thought.

2. KS_DRTK1 don't match up Y wise either side.

3. Front sidedefs of lines 2097, 1986, 1915, 1289, 2344, 2343, 2342 and 2341 - KS_DRTK1 - not showing after sector 145

has lowered.

4. Texture on line 5372 can be seen as a vertical strip from sector 373.

5. Sidedef 10049 needs a Y offset.

6. Blank on other side of lines 6564 and 6584 - stethescope.

7. Lines 7542 and 7853 need a Y offset fix. Probably -16 going by the nearby lines.

8. Remove lower unpegged from lines 7971 and 5162 ?

9. Lines 4586 and 5333 not lower unpegged.

10. With gzdoom at least the rockets T's 469, 470 and 472 rise to sector 440's floor height when sector 440

lowers and rises. A bounding box/radius issue.

11. Linedefs 9035 and 2917 scroll. Intentional ?

12. Line 4508 could use a Y offset fix and does sidedef 7351 have the correct texture ?

13. Sidedef 1830 does not scroll when sector 468 moves.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by hawkwind

[blob1024]

16 hours ago, hawkwind said:

Map 29 ...

 

1. Small vertical strip at vertex 1740 in hardware mode.

2. Possibly line 3158 might need a Y adjustment. Compare line 1989.

3. Give lines 164, 999, 1466 and 1467 a Y offset of 62. This hides the black strip where these lines

meet the blood floor. Just looks better IMO.

 

Map 30 ...

 

1. A bit naff having the "glass" as a switch at the beginning I thought.

2. KS_DRTK1 don't match up Y wise either side.

3. Front sidedefs of lines 2097, 1986, 1915, 1289, 2344, 2343, 2342 and 2341 - KS_DRTK1 - not showing after sector 145

has lowered.

4. Texture on line 5372 can be seen as a vertical strip from sector 373.

5. Sidedef 10049 needs a Y offset.

6. Blank on other side of lines 6564 and 6584 - stethescope.

7. Lines 7542 and 7853 need a Y offset fix. Probably -16 going by the nearby lines.

8. Remove lower unpegged from lines 7971 and 5162 ?

9. Lines 4586 and 5333 not lower unpegged.

10. With gzdoom at least the rockets T's 469, 470 and 472 rise to sector 440's floor height when sector 440

lowers and rises. A bounding box/radius issue.

11. Linedefs 9035 and 2917 scroll. Intentional ?

12. Line 4508 could use a Y offset fix and does sidedef 7351 have the correct texture ?

13. Sidedef 1830 does not scroll when sector 468 moves.

 

wow, thats a super professional testing. great work!

[hawkwind]

On 11/15/2022 at 3:54 AM, blob1024 said:

wow, thats a super professional testing. great work!

... and still not quite finished ...

 

Map 30 point 4 ...

 

4. Texture on line 5372 can be seen as a vertical strip from sector 373.

 

Fixed by giving sector 861 both a floor and ceiling height of -248.

 

14. Lines 10488 and 10517 are flagged lower unpegged. They scroll. Intentional ?

15. Line 13136 needs a Y offset of -8.

16. GZDoom in hardware mode - note glitch around lines 1209 and 1023 etc.

 

I admit to using an editor quite a number of times to progress in this map.

 

Map 33 ...

 

1. After crossing line 996 and sector 173 renders pitch black, it is impossible for the player to see

the switch at line 1005. A bit unfair IMO.

2. Floor of sectors 480/481 would look better with FLAT14 IMO.

3. SERIOUS BUG - Player it trapped at sectors 412 and 420 after dropping down to sector 415 from sector 457. A teleporter at either sector  412 or 418 would fix.

4. Suggest remove lower unpegged from lines 3469/3470.

5. Floor of sector 311 might look better with FLOOR5_1.

6. Lines 876/877 not lower unpegged.

7. Line 4253 needs an X offset of 15.

8. Give sidedef 5532 an X offset of 4.

9. Change the texture on line 4246 to GRAY1, to match line 4252.

10. Sector 616's ceiling brightness looks out of place IMO.

11. Check front sidedef of lines 3989, 3987, 3988, 3981 and 3982 for x alignments.

12. Potential Serious Bug - a) player teleports to sector 293 and walks off, Sector 296 lowers, player then uses switch at line 4227 to raise the step back up. All is well UNLESS player goes back to teleport sector 313 and teleports again to sector 293 and walks over a different line around sector 293, stairs sector 296 is now permantently lowered, preventing the player to get to sector 216. Actually, map 14 has a near identical area to this, which does not have this bug.

13. Line 1338 could use an X alignment of 11.

 

........ I'm done ..... that was a slog ..... ;) .

Edited November 18, 2022 by hawkwind

[lupinx-Kassman]

I really appreciate the feedback so far everyone! Especially the map-by-map deep-dives. We are addressing things as they are brought up.

[Chalibluefin]

On 11/10/2022 at 10:42 AM, Sokoro said:

Can someone explain, what is the problem with map26? Cant you just replace it with ugly experimental map (like original TNT did with habbitat) and claim cacoward? Anyway from the screenshots it looks like my cup of coffee and I am eager to play it when full version gets released. Thank you for this gem.

*Knowing smile*

[Marcaek]

Fourth beta posted. This is likely (but not certain) to be the final pre-release candidate version provided nothing unexpected happens.

[lupinx-Kassman]

Here is the beta 4 changelog

[Tycitron]

Hell yeah! Now, the one thing i hope still happens before release is the starting position of the first beta to be put back.

[StalkerZHS]

4 hours ago, Tycitron said:

Hell yeah! Now, the one thing i hope still happens before release is the starting position of the first beta to be put back.

Reject Modernity, return to 2009 beta

[Sirius104x]

Now I cannot find this anywhere online and I've searched, even on this forum, and I can't even find a youtube playthrough of this map. But the red key in map 24, Tides of Fire. For the love of god how is this secret opened? I've tried everything. It's one reallllly well hidden secret. Anyone figured it out?

[hawkwind]

7 hours ago, Sirius104x said:

Now I cannot find this anywhere online and I've searched, even on this forum, and I can't even find a youtube playthrough of this map. But the red key in map 24, Tides of Fire. For the love of god how is this secret opened? I've tried everything. It's one reallllly well hidden secret. Anyone figured it out?

 

Spoiler

Without giving too much away, you need to activate a switch, then a "door" rises, then be game and walk through a lavafall ...

 

[tmorrow]

7 hours ago, Sirius104x said:

Now I cannot find this anywhere online and I've searched, even on this forum, and I can't even find a youtube playthrough of this map. But the red key in map 24

 

TNT2 Devilution is still in beta, so you won't find a lot online about it. The focus is on identifying and fixing any problems prior to release. Hopefully hawkwind's hint is enough for you to find that elusive but very helpful red key! Please offer up any feedback you can on the maps you've played so the best version of TNT2 gets released when it's ready.

[hawkwind]

Some issues still present in beta 4 ...

 

Map 01 ... This map does not use the new midblood texture KS_FLPMB.

 

Map 03 ... Sidedef 4338 needs an X offset of 64.

 

Map 05 ... 1.Lines 1360, 2744 and 997 all need the impassable flag set. All other uses of the texture MIDROPE have this flag set.

2. ISSUE - Bear in mind that many ports have disabled infinite height actors. With these ports, players can walk over the flaming barrel

at sector 551. For "compatibility", lines around sector 551 could be flagged impassible.

 

Map 32 ... Impossible to get to sector 372. And as a result, the archviles at sectors 845 and 856 cannot be released from their closets.

Suggest being able to teleport to sector 372 or remove those archviles and pickups from sector 372.

 

Map 16 ... Impossible to get to sector 223 to progress into sector 709 and beyond, meaning 100% kills not possible.

 

Map 19 ...  1. SERIOUS BUG - Upon returning to sector 733 a second time ( Using teleport sector 547 twice ) and door sectors 927 and 928 are already open, the ceiling beyond renders like a massive slime trail, and the player is blocked at lines 6064 and 6071.

ONE SOLUTION - Give sidedefs 8692 and 8700 an upper texture and lower unpeg lines 6056, 6065, 6072 and 6068. 

2. Impossible to get to secret sectors 44 and 121.

 

 

Map 20 ... Was my report for this map checked ? This one is particularly important ...

4. Player can get trapped at x 3362 y -11442 if both sectors 255 and 257 are closed.

To clarify ... player can get trapped between lines 2016 and 2043 if the door has closed.

 

Map 26 ... Map has no monsters and still has that unfinished feel to it imo. Still not finished ?

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by hawkwind