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Marcaek

TNT 2: Devilution (Third beta released)

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Spoiler

Screenshot_Doom_20220402_231530.png.351e08168edf1f239bac73a4d1e07e6c.png

One of the best rooms (gameplay-wise and from an architectural standpoint,  I've encountered so far, in this wad.)

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5 hours ago, StalkerZHS said:

leaves for florida for a week

 

comes back to find a wad i've been following since 2013 has a public beta


Ive been following this since like 2011 and picked the wrong week to stop smoking glue and going on the internet.

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Congrats on the beta release! I just played Map01 and really loved it, especially the atmospheric blue start. No problems to report except we want mouldy back! 

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I found three noclipling floors on MAP14. They're shown in the images below:

Screenshot_Doom_20220403_170634.png.94bea10f7fbf0dfc5fa32e63f5b4ba07.pngScreenshot_Doom_20220403_170102.png.59dca9eb89bf65ebc574872bd65f7c02.pngScreenshot_Doom_20220403_170019.png.ab35aed8b30db9f811b4516e907157c5.png

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3 hours ago, MCarsten said:

I found three noclipling floors on MAP14. They're shown in the images below:

These nodebuilding issues will be fixed in the next build.

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Don't know if it was reported here, but in map 31 - exiting on both normal and secret exit would lead to map 32.

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Hey @Uni, since you've changed your username on DW, would you like us to update your name in the credits to match, or keep it as the old one? Pretty quick change either way; just want to make sure you're credited appropriately.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/30/2022 at 5:18 PM, MtPain27 said:

Playing through this I found a couple of visual oddities in MAP 13, pictured below. I guess this has to do with the nodebuilder? I'm playing with ZDoom 2.8.1, so feel free to disregard if this works in GZDoom's current version (and also feel free to chide me on my source port of choice). 

 

203681497_Screenshot(290).png.18794cd66a881cab42bce45bff3d2c98.png1370003095_Screenshot(289).png.6829e9ce857f539a003d14b13fa7fbb4.png1447994749_Screenshot(288).png.9b2e785f0a9e05d0c46c928c32f5ac91.png

 

More importantly, the red key didn't lower in MAP 31 for some reason. Again, this happened on ZDoom. (I might have just done something out of order, but I'm locked in the room with cyberdemon...the pillar lowered, it just didn't bring the key with it).

 

2089924408_Screenshot(291).png.7a7a8b7c9b0fe2f7cd21082d0564892f.png

 

Hope these help; I'm definitely not trying to nitpick. I've been zooming through this megawad with great enthusiasm, definitely will be playing it several times.

I've got that same issue.

 

EDIT: I'm also playing in ZDoom.

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Screenshot_Doom_20220404_231319.png.95a46d65d331f175ce63ee79e82cb9be.pngOn MAP31 at the arena with the two Cyberdemons, a Pain Elemental, sniping Imps and a floor button that lowers the lift to access the cave I got momentarily stuck on this noclipping nodebuild and I was almost killed by one of the Cyberdemons.

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6 hours ago, unraveler said:

Don't know if it was reported here, but in map 31 - exiting on both normal and secret exit would lead to map 32.

 

Forgot to report, but I discovered a similar bug/issue in map15. Exiting both the normal and *secret exit takes me to map16.

 

* assuming this is the secret exit (since I still haven't discovered a way to get there without idclip)

vuLNvHN.png

 

 

Also another bug I had discovered, but forgot to report is this visual bug on Map08:

rbxvBBQ.png

 

This only happens in the Hardware renderer. Appears fine in software renderer

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

 

Forgot to report, but I discovered a similar bug/issue in map15. Exiting both the normal and *secret exit takes me to map16.

 

* assuming this is the secret exit (since I still haven't discovered a way to get there without idclip)

vuLNvHN.png

Spoiler

It's not, secret exit is located at DelCaco here (Require blue key, and enough HP to survive 20 damaging fridge until the door closes)

1642383653_TNT2secretexit1.png.5df24f414ddfa4046b60732f708792db.png

1770240339_TNT2secretexit2.png.cf3199c93b7133cd84a91815cf32c86f.png

1080840238_TNT2secretexit3.png.292f3059e69d933a85a9a3a15235c79f.png

997826563_TNT2secretexit4.png.fa4cc23d609d2ba1a4b6edc90fcdd69c.png

 

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@unraveler Oh thanks for the guide. Man I would not have managed to discover the secret exit on my own.

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@Xaser Yeah sure, if it's not a hassle although I hope it won't burden the doomwiki editors.

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9 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

Also another bug I had discovered, but forgot to report is this visual bug on Map08:

 

This only happens in the Hardware renderer. Appears fine in software renderer

 

This is probably not fixable. The set has some more GL jank out there similar to this.

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I'm up to MAP28 so far and this is without a doubt one of the coolest megawads I've played in quite a long time. I'll definitely be replaying it ASAP once it's finished.

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22 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

 

Forgot to report, but I discovered a similar bug/issue in map15. Exiting both the normal and *secret exit takes me to map16.

 

* assuming this is the secret exit (since I still haven't discovered a way to get there without idclip)

vuLNvHN.png

 

LOL. I completely forgot that I left that in the map before I decided what I was going to do for the secret exit.

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Posted (edited)

Got around to playing the first 12 maps. So far it's unsurprisingly been really good. Incredible how much diversity there is between the levels despite almost all of them following the theme of TNT-inspired techbases... though the fact that TNT itself is pretty varied helps.

 

Map-specific feedback:

 

Spoiler

All levels played on DSDA-Doom complevel 4 UV with limited saves

  • MAP01
    • Great introduction. The blue area at the start is such a cool way to start things off - some great subtle details there (e.g. the eye). I like how the concept of starting with the defeated IOS is something preserved from the cut first map of the demo I played a decade ago
    • The 2 instant moving sectors in the flesh tunnel (310 and 321) could easily be made to move silently with the same trick used for sector 83 and a few others. Think this would a simple way to improve immersion here
  • MAP02
    • Definitely one of my favorites of the first 12. The map had a really strong sense of place, maybe one of the most often overlooked aspects of TNT
    • Dumb suggestion, but wouldn't it be cool if the map on linedef 495 actually matched up to the level's geometry? (maybe pretty high effort for a single detail 😏)
  • MAP03
    • Loved the theme here
    • Seems like a step down in difficultly from the first 2 maps (once you get past the first through hallways at least) but not complaining about having a breather level early on...
  • MAP04
    • Pretty tough ending fight compared to what's come so far. Ended up just ignoring the monsters and sprinting for the exit
    • A problem with the soulsphere on the bridge being unavoidable is that the area before has a ton of health bonus. I think had something like 180% health when was forced to pick it up. Not a huge problem but still kinda annoying

Now for my own 2 maps, both with significant changes since I last worked on them 8+ years ago. Both Tarnsman and Xaser did a great job modifying  them, and it was an awesome experience getting to play improved versions of my own stuff.

  • MAP05
    • The secret lift in the darkened pit secret (sector 123) has a texture that doesn't tile well when the lift is lowered. Could be made less bad by adding another sector in front of the lift with the same tag having only one repetition of the texture (ZTFADE7) and changing the lift's texture to something that tiles better
    • The arachnotrons on the rocks in the main outdoor area can be pretty annoying to kill if you run out of rockets. Maybe put a few boxes right in front of them to minimize the chances of this happening?
    • The sound of the walkover actions causing sector 907 to lower could be misconceived as something related to a secret (such as the nearby locked door sector 589). The sector movement could be made silent to prevent players wasting their time here while secret hunting
    • Is there any real hint to sector 678 being lowerable? Totally forgot what the idea was here
    • Stray non-hidden automap line in the top left here
    • Still not a fan of the barrel trap. Out of curiosity I checked the last version of the map I worked on and I think the idea was it to be more of a fake out jump scare, with the crushers lowering but not actually detonating the barrels... maybe? honestly I forget.

      My main problem with the trap is that it's possible for the player to die without warning if they trigger the linedef causing the crushers to lower but wait a bit before going down the lift. If they then go down the lift once the barrels are about to explode they'll die without any way for them to be aware of the danger beforehand. Just really frustrating IMO. Not sure how this issue could be avoided without getting rid of the trap entirely.
    • The silver towers can be cut off by the sky from the right angles here
    • The lighting style in the new yellow key outdoor area felt kind of off. The other outdoor areas in the map made heavy use of shadows, while the lighting here felt pretty flat. I think the area could look better if similar shadows were added, or maybe just more contrast in the light values if visplanes are an issue
  • MAP06
    • Another relatively easy map, which is totally fine considering it's more atmospheric in style. Still though I felt there too much ammo and health in the map - I was over 100% health for most of my playthrough and basically swimming in ammo. I think reducing the amount of ammo, health, and armor could put more pressure on the player (thereby accentuating the map's creepy/haunting atmosphere) without making the map necessarily harder.
    • 2 armor powerups in a row here. Guessing this is a mistake?
    • There's a magic floating stimpack here

Back to the non-me maps:

  • MAP07
    • Really fun relatively short map. Distinctly valkiriforce yet still fits in with everything else. Great use of the map07 tags
  • MAP08
    • Another favorite so far. Great gimmick of only using low health enemies for most of the map, I was definitely feeling the stronghold vibes
  • MAP09
    • My least favorite map in the set so far. Still a good level, just didn't really enjoy it as much as the others - didn't really feel particularly TNTish to me and the layout felt haphazard I guess. Great gimmick with the cybs showing up at awkward times though
  • MAP10

  • MAP11

    • Less good than the first valkiriforce map IMO, though I really liked the traps in the techbase section towards the end.

    • Some of the caves felt pretty barebones to me. I guess this isn’t a problem in a tribute to a 25-year-old wad, but these did seem pretty off to me considering the modern visuals of the rest of the wad so far, idk

    • The missing-texture flood-fill effect can be used on the ceiling here to hide the lighting on it, which would get rid off the noticeable lighting cutoff and make the area look better IMO

  • MAP12

 

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Posted (edited)

Jumped around a bit through the maps, impressive looking overall! Definitely can see the TNT feel in this.

 

Handpicked a map or two for a quick casual play and I literally got stuck in map18 for like half an hour until I finally jumped by complete accident on that blue floor panel to lower the lift in the same room. I definitely think it should either be a switch there, a texture that attracts more attention, or have an item placed on top of the blue floor flat that draws at least a little attention.

 

Map15 pistol start looks a little rough compared to the others, not sure if that is intended.

 

Map06 was my favorite of the ones I gave a playthrough. (1, 6, 12, 15, 18)

Edited by FrancisT218

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2 hours ago, FrancisT218 said:

Map15 pistol start looks a little rough compared to the others, not sure if that is intended.

Wait until you pistol start Map19!

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3 hours ago, FrancisT218 said:

Map15 pistol start looks a little rough compared to the others, not sure if that is intended.

 

Yeah that one is rough at the start if you don't know about the secrets. This can help you

Spoiler

One of the computer panel wall near the start of the map reveals a teleport that takes you to an apartment.

xx5Q7DS.png

 

Once in the apartment, you will come across two small buttons/switches on the bed side table.

Ax7OwMF.png

 

Standing on them will lower the TV cabinet and also reveal a teleport behind the TV. Time them right to get through the teleport and you will be awarded with a soulsphere and some shell/bullet ammo to make the start easier.

 

And speaking of rough starts, I found map24 to be really rough. I'll be honest, I didn't enjoy it much. Now, I'll admit that with prior knowledge and optimal route, the map likely wouldn't be so bad. But on a blind+pistol start walkthrough, I had to constantly load earlier saves to try to save the few radsuits on the map. There are just barely enough radsuits to complete the map, let alone try to explore for secrets.

 

I feel the map could use at least 2-3 more radsuits.

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On mardi 5 avril 2022 at 5:36 AM, Lingyan203 said:

How come there's no map26?

A dog ate it.

 

That's why you shouldn't test maps in MBF!!!!

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8 hours ago, Gez said:

A dog ate it.

 

That's why you shouldn't test maps in MBF!!!!

LOL Hahahahahaha

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On MAP23 at the following room

Screenshot_Doom_20220408_184213.png.569e47cfdcea2c8d5146dd20ddf73bdb.png

there is a potential poor thing positioning at both side alcoves

Screenshot_Doom_20220408_183828.png.cd1ba0053d30be0590b55128248b66db.png

As you can see, the rockets stay afloat, so I can't get them.

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Posted (edited)

More Hardware renderer jank. This time in map25:

1ttLPjT.png

 

Nh4bUwd.png

 

This seems to happen only in cases where there is no floor (as in, the floor is the sky). Perhaps (if possible) adding a bit of floor sector where these switches are could solve the flickering problems.

 

Also regarding what ProcessingControl said about barrel trap on map:

On 4/6/2022 at 9:41 AM, Processingcontrol said:

Still not a fan of the barrel trap. Out of curiosity I checked the last version of the map I worked on and I think the idea was it to be more of a fake out jump scare, with the crushers lowering but not actually detonating the barrels... maybe? honestly I forget.

My main problem with the trap is that it's possible for the player to die without warning if they trigger the linedef causing the crushers to lower but wait a bit before going down the lift. If they then go down the lift once the barrels are about to explode they'll die without any way for them to be aware of the danger beforehand. Just really frustrating IMO. Not sure how this issue could be avoided without getting rid of the trap entirely.

 

Another (small) issue with this is that once you know about it, you can just blow up the barrels using RL before even going down the lift. I was thinking about this and I think a way of making this trap better is:

  • Make the trap not based on linedef, but based on switch trigger. Once the player jumps down the lift, there is a switch in front of them that makes them think it will open the path forward, but instead reveals the barrels on both sides (before pressing the switch, the barrels are hidden ala monster closet fashion to avoid them being destroyed via infinite height RL) and starts the crusher.
  • That very switch also reveals the escape switch in one of the barrel closets which will open the path forward.
  • [optional idea] The trap could potentially be made even more interesting by having multiple switches in the barrel closets (revealed one after the other) before the player is allowed to escape. But then I would also increase the time it takes for the crusher to reach the barrels. 
Edited by ReaperAA

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Cool megawad! I like how it oftentimes throws "conventional" game play out the window in favor of stuff that's generally regarded a big no-no in the "design rules" - like for instance MAP24 ;)

 

I haven't played through every map in the set yet, but I've been skipping around and playing through a few of those that really grabbed my attention. MAP29 was immensely playable, and the aestethics of MAP28 was right up my alley - though that one was pretty damn tough from a pistol start!

 

General impressions of the whole set is that there "might" be a few too many chaingunners for my liking, but no big deal. I like how the general unconventional design choices manages to co-exist with actual gameplay. I've stated a few too many times how much I think the original TNT episode sucks, but this one surely does not!

 

All in all, GREAT job! Thanks to all the creators for providing us with fresh vanilla stuff.

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Finally got around to playing and beating the Beta and i got to say that was pretty amazing. Map15 and Map30 were definitely my favorites. All the other ones were great as well, Music was was good too, although its a shame no version of Death Bells or Legion of the lost made it in. But oh well. Will definitely play it again once its released proper. But just one thing i really want to know...

 

Spoiler

What in the world is going in the storyline for this wad? ever since i beat the original TNT i always wanted to know what the blue light emitting from the demon-spitter and the sky was, and i know Doom stories aren't really that important as i still really enjoyed the levels, but i'm just really confused on what happened.

 

Map01 begins right after Last Call, and i guess the blue stuff was an illusion from the demons? the text said the demon-spitter metasized with the planet and Doomguy was trying to find a way blow it up, but gets sent to the future? then you board a hell ship and i think you try to use it to blow up the demon-moon? then map30 happens and there is a society of people living inside the demons body i think. then in the end Doomguy puts his (handsome) mug on the moon instead of the demons. and it ends.

 

I just really want to know what happened at the end there. what was going in in map30? i was actually pretty invested with all the environmental storytelling and "lore" going on. then it ends in a really silly way. i was just left very confused lol.

 

 

 

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Amazing wad, worth the long wait. I felt that the difficulty was just perfect at HMP. Definitely harder than Evilution, specifically on last third, as it should (this was sequel after all). Longer maps still felt focused and managed to keep the interest. Maps 15, 20, 30 could be solo releases and still worthy cacoward canditates. Great enviromental story telling, especially the on the last map: It might be the most atmospheric map I've ever seen with vanilla limits.

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Actually while digging through the wad files trying to extract the (amazing) soundtrack to listen to, i stumbled upon this... thing. any explanation for this? i put the sprites together and im very curious on what this is supposed to be. 

Spoiler

Boss.png.86a0b3231e349d178d58d87c75d3db85.pngIm gonna guess it was a IOS boss of some kind. judging from the glowy spot in the center, and if it showed up at all in the beta i sure didnt see it, but if it is please inform me of where i might've missed it.

 

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