THE POWER LEVELS FOR DOOM 2!

[Edward850]

On 3/14/2019 at 4:29 PM, memes4lyfe said:

zandronum

zandronum is not vanilla accurate, which is why people are noticing bugs you aren't. You'll want to test your map in something like Chocolate Doom.

[memes4lyfe]

actually, i didnt intend for them to infight. i was just placing monsters where i thought fit best. i don,t really know a lot about good monster placement. as for my next map, i will call it the marble city.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Look, dude. You R E A L L Y NEEEEEEEEED to test these maps on Chocolate DooM. In fact, the spoiler below will list just a HANDFUL of bugs in your maps:

 

 

Spoiler

MAP 01:

As far as I know, this is unreachable.

 

MAP 03:

Unnecessary switch.

 

DRAWSEG overflow. Doesn't crash vanilla it just causes the HOM effect to go wild.

 

Pressing use on this door produces a door sound but doesn't move.

 

This switch breaks if you try to open the "door" first.

 

MAP 04:

This switch does absolutely nothing.

 

Tutti-Frutti error on this door.

 

The exit switch can be pressed prematurely.

 

Tutti-Frutti Error on this switch.

 

MAP05:

This "blue key door" opens up when you have the blue key. So why is there a switch to also open this door?

 

MEGA Tutti-Frutti error on this fake wall!

 

Please note I AM interested in watching you slowly succeed but these errors really must be addressed...

[memes4lyfe]

the soul sphere is indeed reachable. you just need to find the secret. otherwise, i wouldn't put it there. also, what causes tutti-fruitti errors?

[Misty]

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Static_limits wiki is your the best friend, use that. Also get choco render limits to see what's breaking and what you need take care for.

 

Edit:https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Tutti-frutti_effect 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Misty

[TheNoob_Gamer]

A bit semi-off-topic: Is this intended to be a joke megawad?

[memes4lyfe]

2 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

A bit semi-off-topic: Is this intended to be a joke megawad?

no, but map05 could be seen as a "joke"

my vision for map05 was "demon's found out about the UAC's sweet new swimming pool, and want to take it over. after arriving in the pool area, you see something horrible: the mancubi broke the diving board! those monsters. beach day is over for these horror movie rejects." so i built the map with that story in mind. that wooden structure was supossed to be a beach house. also, for map08 (i finished map07, the marble city) i plan on using computer puns in my map design. for example, to proceed, you need to disable the firewall. (aka, get the key to a door with the FIREWALL texture). these joke stories are what my creativity came from for some maps.

[memes4lyfe]

and yes, i said i finished map07, but there is no download yet. i'm waiting for beta v1.0 first along with 2 other maps.

[memes4lyfe]

ALSO also, since the name of the next map is called "tricks and traps" should i put monster closets and traps in? if so, what? i'm kinda running outta ideas.

[memes4lyfe]

beta 1.0 of the POWER LEVELS is out! check it out!

also, i have "creators block" which means i'm running out of ideas. plz help.

[Misty]

I played your mapset and stopped at map06. I found this weirdly enjoyable for me, it reminds me my earliest mapping attempts and find what each action and item does in map. 

When mapping block hits me, I just take break and play something else or study someone's map to find what I could do with my own touch. 

Play maps from cacoward section, there are plenty of stuff to get inspired from, don't afraid expand someone's idea and add some your twist for it. 
 

[memes4lyfe]

7 minutes ago, Misty said:

I played your mapset and stopped at map06. I found this weirdly enjoyable for me, it reminds me my earliest mapping attempts and find what each action and item does in map. 

When mapping block hits me, I just take break and play something else or study someone's map to find what I could do with my own touch. 

Play maps from cacoward section, there are plenty of stuff to get inspired from, don't afraid expand someone's idea and add some your twist for it. 
 

so, basically do a rip off? okay.

[Misty]

2 minutes ago, memes4lyfe said:

so, basically do a rip off? okay.

No. I mean just get inspired by playing maps, uhhh. 

[Egg Boy]

Ok here we go, I'm going to try to not repeat things I've already pointed out.

 

Map04:

 

Spoiler

 

Upper textures are missing here, causing the ceiling to look all fucked up.

 

Secret exit takes me to the beginning of the same map????

 

The walls of this lift are lower unpegged, so the texture doesn't move with the lift, which looks really strange.

 

Map05:

 

Spoiler

 

This door is unmarked, I wouldn't be able to tell what key goes to this door unless I walked up to it and used it, which is unlikely for a new player because it does not even look like a door.

 

Map06:

 

Spoiler

 

Walls on the side of the door are not unpegged (most of the doors in this map are like this).

 

Why are the key markings inside the door?

 

You done fucked up here, boyo.

 

Map07:

 

Spoiler

 

Not gonna question the slime on the ceiling, but why is the bottom of the door also slime? You should probably use the marble ceiling texture instead.

 

These arachnotrons are stuck inside each other, meaning neither can move till one dies.

 

Why does this room require strafe running? I died here the first time because I thought I could just run over the gaps, and couldn't find a way out. Also, I don't think it's possible to UV max this game on pistol start. Because of the amount of enemies in these cage room (which there are three of) and the lack of ammo until the end.

 

Map08:

 

Spoiler

 

You forgot to texture this wall.

 

What's with this random blue tile on the ceiling?

 

I'm stuck in this room, the door does not appear to open from this side.

 

Yet another untextured wall behind this lift. Also didn't get a picture, but the exit switch isn't a switch at all, and the exit room seems like a dead end.

 

Map09:

 

Spoiler

 

This room is probably the most interesting thing you've done in terms of visuals in the whole wad.

 

This is the thinnest wall in the world. It looks very unnatural.

 

Nice Baron and HK flood fill, bro.

 

Good thing I have this.

 

I'll continue this in another post, I reached my maximum image upload limit.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Egg Boy : removed all pictures as this thread is inactive.

[memes4lyfe]

i should probably work on that stuff. but it's late, so i'll do it tomorrow.

[Egg Boy]

Oh well, I can't go bigger. Anyway, there's this absurdly huge room at the end of map09, where you don't have to fight any of the monsters since the end switch is at the end of the room. 

 

Map10 is unremarkable, it's the same level of quality as the rest of the wad besides being laughably easy compared to the last few maps.

 

 

[memes4lyfe]

1 minute ago, Egg Boy said:

Oh well, I can't go bigger. Anyway, there's this absurdly huge room at the end of map09, where you don't have to fight any of the monsters since the end switch is at the end of the room. 

 

Map10 is unremarkable, it's the same level of quality as the rest of the wad besides being laughably easy compared to the last few maps.

 

 

sorry. i kinda got lazy at map10 because i just kinda got "out" of mapping for a few days. i should really dedicate my time to not being lazy and doing mapping.

[Egg Boy]

1 minute ago, memes4lyfe said:

sorry. i kinda got lazy at map10 because i just kinda got "out" of mapping for a few days. i should really dedicate my time to not being lazy and doing mapping.

Don't sweat it man. Have you tried mapping on paper before going in the editor? It may help you design more engaging encounters and nonlinear levels.

[memes4lyfe]

no i haven't. i just kinda make things up as i go along.

[Egg Boy]

I would highly recommend doing this, especially considering how new you are to the mapping scene, consciously designing a playable area rather than making every thing up will teach you more about mapping and also improve their current quality tremendously. 

[DMPhobos]

3 hours ago, memes4lyfe said:

so, basically do a rip off? okay.

Way to dismiss a rather common advice for mapper's block dude...

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Wont lie the blue key in MAP08 was kinda neat. :3

[ShadesMaster]

If those levels were over 9000, than what I did to the first two levels means they've transformed into Super Sayian 1....

 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/al9s36insk67nwc/superSaiyan1.wad/file

 

https://imgur.com/a/geUmQdX

[Kepehn]

1 hour ago, ShadesMaster said:

If those levels were over 9000, than what I did to the first two levels means they've transformed into Super Sayian 1....

 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/al9s36insk67nwc/superSaiyan1.wad/file

 

Wow! That's an awsome remake!

Did you created it from scratch beased on the original? Or you took the original and you modified it?

[ShadesMaster]

Modified, all the way. The idea was to show memesForLife Romero-esque design habits, firsthand differences. So those habits are developed early hopefully.

 

- change floor / ceiling texture only with elevation changes.

- interesting circuit-like layout with landmarks, and seeable objectives (in MAP01 you can now see the key from the start), though I do try to preserve Meme's progression here.

- in that vein, I've eliminated some of the doors entirely to create a more interesting room overall.

- thematically fitting textures, as the levels progress one can look to Episode 2 for inspiration.

- proper doortrak, doorstop, support usage.

- and more!

[Egg Boy]

5 hours ago, ShadesMaster said:

Modified, all the way. The idea was to show memesForLife Romero-esque design habits, firsthand differences. So those habits are developed early hopefully.

 

- change floor / ceiling texture only with elevation changes.

- interesting circuit-like layout with landmarks, and seeable objectives (in MAP01 you can now see the key from the start), though I do try to preserve Meme's progression here.

- in that vein, I've eliminated some of the doors entirely to create a more interesting room overall.

- thematically fitting textures, as the levels progress one can look to Episode 2 for inspiration.

- proper doortrak, doorstop, support usage.

- and more!

Man, that's dedication, great job, I recommended they look into this stuff as well, but this is next level feedback. 

[memes4lyfe]

7 hours ago, ShadesMaster said:

Modified, all the way. The idea was to show memesForLife Romero-esque design habits, firsthand differences. So those habits are developed early hopefully.

 

- change floor / ceiling texture only with elevation changes.

- interesting circuit-like layout with landmarks, and seeable objectives (in MAP01 you can now see the key from the start), though I do try to preserve Meme's progression here.

- in that vein, I've eliminated some of the doors entirely to create a more interesting room overall.

- thematically fitting textures, as the levels progress one can look to Episode 2 for inspiration.

- proper doortrak, doorstop, support usage.

- and more!

i'm kinda dumb, so maybe you can tell me what this "circuit-like layout" means? I get it means sprawling, but I don't really know how to make my maps look "interesting". is there a mindset I need to have?

[Misty]

Most likely he meant looping, interconnected map design. When you walk from main room from one side to explore things and return to main room other side, maybe with key to unlock door in main room or else. Here's map, created for new people and those who struggle with mapping ideas, it teaches basic things about layout, lighting and monster placement. Works with zandronum, it should work with other ports. 
 

Edit: Here's example of looping map layout (credits to Aquila Chrysaetos for providing map layout for this post):

 

Spoiler

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Misty

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

1 hour ago, memes4lyfe said:

i'm kinda dumb, so maybe you can tell me what this "circuit-like layout" means? I get it means sprawling, but I don't really know how to make my maps look "interesting". is there a mindset I need to have?

Misty kindly provided a Builder shot of a map I made earlier as an example of a circuit-like layout, but allow me to elaborate on how exactly I went about it.

I constructed the first room and I built it in a way that I could have multiple ways to easily enter and exit without mangling the area much. Then I made the watery canal area to the right and built a new area around it, the large room in the center, and connected that to the start.

Then I made a new area to the west, building off a hallway I'd put there, and connected the hallway to the start area in the north, and the canal to the large watery thing.

All I was doing was making areas and just making lots of ways to move between them, really.

 

In the spoiler is a gif showing roughly how construction of the map went. Feel free to watch it as many times as necessary, as it goes rather quickly.

Spoiler

 

What you can't see from that screenshot is the fact that there are actually three main height levels in that map, and each one sort of has its own layout that pieces together in the large, overarching map layout. The majority of the floors you see are at 0 or 16 height, but the water areas are -72, and some of the brick areas are 128 high, so the map doesn't feel flat.

The low and high areas work to keep the middle as interconnected as possible, and they're necessary for progression, the idea being that you explore the whole map, north to south, east to west, top to bottom, to complete it.

My train of thought was "How can I make it interesting to move through this map?" Good deathmatch maps have very good circuit-like layout and height variance, so it helps to think of it as such. Another thought I had was "I'm making these separate height levels, now I want to give the player a reason to explore them," so I made them a part of the progression, and it makes the map interesting to move through, as more and more areas are opened up to you and you're able to get to new vantage points over the enemy and move through the map in new ways.

 

Also, in terms of making your map look interesting, it's easy to see in that builder shot that the statistics say there are only ten sectors in the map. The reason for this is irrelevant, really, but it's worth noting that I couldn't rely on sector work to make the map look interesting. I actually relied on strange shapes most of the time, and a little bit of texture detailing, to do this. Weird shapes are your friend in Doom, and can make a room far more interesting than any amount of sector work can (seems ironic coming from me), in both aesthetic and gameplay.

 

Really, it's just something that you have to practice and learn over time. It won't be something that comes to you overnight, but I do hope my explanation of the map above helped give you some insight on how I looked at its layout and design.

[memes4lyfe]

so basically just:

 

make weird shapes in the map.

 

offer multiple ways to navigate.

 

change floor height drastically.

 

and make the maps larger so they don't feel short.

 

is that it? or is there something else?