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riderr3

Adonis: Escape from Urania (cl9 Boom megawad)

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Congrats on the release! Just gave this a "quick" try on UV and stopped mid-map03 as I got immersed into it. First things first, it is highly important that you specify in the text file that translucency must be on, because not everyone plays with it. The first map might put unaware players off if they get sniped to death by things that can't be seen. And, me personally, I'm not a fan of translucency on in general because of how it makes projectiles "less" visible, but for this case I can adapt myself. Plus I'll admit some of the secrets are nicely hidden. 

 

Anyways, this made me feel very nostalgic, Urania was one of the earliest hard wads that I beat, as you remember I expressed all kinds of emotions in regards to the gameplay. With that said, from what I played, there's definitely an improvement in gameplay speed and balance: similar hitscan usage from Urania but way toned down, at least less brutal snipers, IF you have translucency on, like I said above it has to be specified somewhere. Health and armor seemed abundant overall. I will suggest though that you place one extra casual box of rockets in map 01, you can work out a lot with berserk but in case you don't find the SSG the HKs fights and mancubi might feel grindy. I found all the secrets (hidden in a Urania fashion, which is to say not too convoluted). Also a few misaligned textures here and there, e.g. here (map 03). 

 

Will play the rest someday (:

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13 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

First things first, it is highly important that you specify in the text file that translucency must be on, because not everyone plays with it. The first map might put unaware players off if they get sniped to death by things that can't be seen. And, me personally, I'm not a fan of translucency on in general because of how it makes projectiles "less" visible, but for this case I can adapt myself. Plus I'll admit some of the secrets are nicely hidden.


OP is updated regarded to translucency info. Never expected about this issue, it's default Boom feature at least.

I might add few more rockets to MAP01, and that unaligned textures on MAP03 is result of auto-aligning of GZDoomBuilder. Sometimes it need to be aligned manually.

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For those who thought the wad is not challenging enough, I added additional monsters for coop mode.
You can start the game in "single" coop mode by adding -solo-net as cmd argument on start of prboom-plus. It starts the game as though in a netgame with a single player.

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This looks really nice @riderr3. You have a really nice project going on. I'm in class though so I cant play it :/ But I will play it as soon as I get home :)

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Excellent wad so far.

What's up with map10 and map11 being unfinishable though?

On both of them I reached a door which can only be opened from the outside. Am I missing something here?

 

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1 hour ago, Leonard said:

 

What's up with map10 and map11 being unfinishable though?

On both of them I reached a door which can only be opened from the outside. Am I missing something here?

 


MAP10 door which can be opened from the outside actually need to be opened remotely nearby, there are kind of puzzle, first you need to activate lift in this room and jump down, then use the switch, return to the lift and run to this remote door. The door and lift in the same room.

On MAP11 you'll need to kill cyberdemon and the doors to outside will open.

I suggest uploading screenshot of issue and I will resolve it faster. Also which source port you are using (Prboom-Plus  and G/ZDoom will work fine with this wad).

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17 hours ago, riderr3 said:

there are kind of puzzle, first you need to activate lift in this room and jump down, then use the switch, return to the lift and run to this remote door.

Yes, the door that leads to the outer ring, I know.

 

17 hours ago, riderr3 said:

On MAP11 you'll need to kill cyberdemon and the doors to outside will open.

Ok, this is what I was missing. I was not aware killing the cyberdemons meant doors would open.

I dug around a bit to try and find out why the doors would not open for me and finally I found it.

 

It's because of your dehacked patch changing A_BossDeath to A_KeenDie.

I am using Zandronum with a gameplay wad.

The problem is that since your maps are expecting A_KeenDie to be called rather than A_BossDeath, the gameplay mod fails to trigger the doors.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I have played many vanilla/boom wads using this gameplay mod and even those that have a dehacked patch always worked.

Was there any reason you used a "ugly hack" like that instead? Aren't there ways to do this without dehacked patches?

 

In general, people expect vanilla/boom wads to work with any gameplay mods (because they are vanilla after all) so hopefully you could fix the way your boss triggers work?

Otherwise we would need yet another one of those annoying extra patch wad to rely on.

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3 hours ago, Leonard said:

Aren't there ways to do this without dehacked patches?

 

In general, people expect vanilla/boom wads to work with any gameplay mods (because they are vanilla after all) so hopefully you could fix the way your boss triggers work?

Otherwise we would need yet another one of those annoying extra patch wad to rely on.

Without DEH patches it not possible to do such things in Boom-based source ports.

So I tried Brutal Doom and Beautiful Doom for example, trigger 666 working only for monster which are replacing Keen, but not working for Cyberdemon and Mastermind.
I assume here I will need to create a DECORATE lump in which I have to specify special triggers for those monsters.

I’m not very familiar with ZDoom modding, but I'll see what I can do in this case.

P.S. Added to OP note about incompatibility of some mods.

Edited by riderr3

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About map11:

 

Spoiler

Gating progression behind killing the cyberdemon is counterintuitive; in a map with lots of stuff warping in early, and possibly more later, I wanted to save that cyb as long as needed. So after the initial waves were done, I ran around for a few unnecessary minutes hunting switches that might open the central building -- and the only reason I finally killed the cyb was its interference with that search.

 

(I didn't read the other post on this map before writing this.) 

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28 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

About map11:

 


Well, "The Marshes" from PSX Doom proves it contrary =)

I'll keep special tags anyways. It was the one of the main ideas of the wad, though in future I probably will not use this.

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On 3/21/2019 at 5:00 PM, riderr3 said:

Without DEH patches it not possible to do such things in Boom-based source ports.

I did some digging around and it seems that indeed it's not possible at all, at least not on arbitrary maps.

That's too bad I guess.

On 3/21/2019 at 5:00 PM, riderr3 said:

I assume here I will need to create a DECORATE lump in which I have to specify special triggers for those monsters.

I’m not very familiar with ZDoom modding, but I'll see what I can do in this case.

For ZDoom you don't need to go into decorate at all.

All you need is the mapinfo lump.

Here's a link that should explain how to achieve this.

Don't forget this part too.

 

I guess I'll just stick with a patch wad.

It's fine if you keep it separated considering this is a boom/vanilla wad.

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What could be considered IMO is to add in the text file the few changes to the stock bestiary, that are unusual and not obvious. I know about Struggle that several enemy types came with such additions thoroughly explained in the .txt but simply "Warning: Boss monsters use KEENDIE tag" or whatever should be clear enough. 

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Wad is updated to rc2.
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ec4vrwr2ve4ym63/adonis_rc2.zip

Changelog:

Quote

-added MAPINFO, now wad works correctly with mods
-added description of wad on HELP page (F1 key in the game)
-small bug fixes for Dehacked
-MAP01 - 2 rockets added near the blue door
-MAP03 - fixed getting the blue key and items on neighboring pedestals ahead of time; the texture is aligned near short red torch
-MAP05 - fixed gratings in tunnel, their back sides are clipped through the floor previously
-MAP31 - fixed sky scrolling in ZDoom-based ports

 

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Well this looks real good, I think I've seen some screenshots in the past?

 

Going to play this soon since I had run out of stuff to check out (thanks @galileo31dos01).

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13 minutes ago, seed said:

Well this looks real good, I think I've seen some screenshots in the past?

Sure, in "what you workin on" thread. MAP08 without snow theme, second episode with different sky, e.t.c.
 

13 minutes ago, seed said:

Going to play this soon since I had run out of stuff to check out (thanks @galileo31dos01).

2019 is generally a rich year for new wads.
 

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Been playing on UV and pistol starts, currently finnished map 04. All enjoyable, I think your gameplay has improved a lot while staying true to Urania's assets and quirkiness: things like the abstract texturing, interconnection between large areas and compact corridors, the non-linear nature that gives your tools wherever you go, those locked small doors that open at some unspecific point, usually hiding secrets, also how you hint secrets via audible clues. Map 03 has that symmetric two-way with stairs I saw a lot in Urania. This and map 04 took a while, there was a lot to explore and I liked that. No deaths, not even close to dying by hitscanners, these guys seemed part of the flow rather than a deterrent (point in favor for those who weren't a fan of them in Urania), some nasty snipers but not annoying, more like to keep you on your toes. I have yet a bunch of maps to play and I'm already feeling nostalgic. My favourite bit as far as scenic tricks was watching the BK on the conveyor, pretty comical to be honest, and the "Imps" warning sign was funny.

 

I found a few things to look at:

Spoiler

 

- Map02: This sector is flagged secret, but it could be a mistake.

- Map04: How do you get that box of rockets?

- About the evileye enemy, I think they could shoot three imp fireballs or one HK fireball instead (or a rev missile). One imp fireball isn't really dangerous considering their HP. I'd also suggest to increase their mass, a SSG shot immediately pushed one miles away and that also reduces their threat. Interesting idea though, they caught me by surprise in their debut trap.

 

 

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5 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

 

  Hide contents

 

- Map02: This sector is flagged secret, but it could be a mistake.

- Map04: How do you get that box of rockets?

- About the evileye enemy, I think they could shoot three imp fireballs or one HK fireball instead (or a rev missile). One imp fireball isn't really dangerous considering their HP. I'd also suggest to increase their mass, a SSG shot immediately pushed one miles away and that also reduces their threat. Interesting idea though, they caught me by surprise in their debut trap.

 

 


1) Yeah, this happened somehow because of joining/splitting sectors. I'll fix it.
2) From the top of another crate with precise usage of straferunning.
3) That the thing which I wouldn't change, because it will affect current balance on maps and initial purpose of this monster. Further they appeared in more dangerous groups, coming from many sides, e.t.c.
Custom monsters is always a subject for disputes, at least there are not many.

Edited by riderr3

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Played up to map 07 included. Some things: 

 

Spoiler

 

Map05:

 

- This door connects the RK maze with the green tech room, it cannot be opened from this room. Because of this I think you can only acquire the RK if you jump to the secret shortcut in the cave, thus making it a mandatory secret path. Not sure if intended or if I missed something else. 

- After I got the RK and backtracked to the start, I had to cross the "Habitat" section since there was this barrier. Then after killing the SMM and stuff I wanted to explore and find secrets (BFG for example, although it was at the end anyways), but I had to cross the sewers many times which was tedious and ended up clipping through the barrier instead. Is there a chance you could add a switch to lower that barrier from before? maybe the RK switch behind SMM could do that too.- I run low on ammo at the end, granted all the 15 secrets helped me to not run out of everything but maybe adding a non-secret plasma rifle would help.

 

Map06:

 

 

- At the nukage room at the leftmost room, where there are some rockets scattered. I'm not sure I saw  a radiation suit anywhere, and the nukage did 20% damage so I opted to ignore those rockets. I think a radsuit would be good.

- At the end, after flipping the switch that cut the lights, you have to somehow get to the exit (forgot to pick the googles). When I dropped into the middle section (with bedrooms), there was no way back to the central ring, and I missed a couple secrets. So no point of return, is that intentional? Just curious.

 

Map07:

 

- The only thing I would add is a couple more boxes of shells or rockets, since I run out of ammo at some point, those pain elementals can easily go wild in the open and soak all your ammo.

- Oh and, at the final area with the SMM and stuff, it could be wise to add monster block lines around the teleport that takes you to the exit. I telefragged a cacodemon, which means it could have been the spider and would have "broken" the fight.

- I found this exit linedef with IDDT. Coop maybe?

 

Also, this issue.

 

 

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2 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Played up to map 07 included. Some things: 

 

  Hide contents

 

Map05:

 

- This door connects the RK maze with the green tech room, it cannot be opened from this room. Because of this I think you can only acquire the RK if you jump to the secret shortcut in the cave, thus making it a mandatory secret path. Not sure if intended or if I missed something else. 

- After I got the RK and backtracked to the start, I had to cross the "Habitat" section since there was this barrier. Then after killing the SMM and stuff I wanted to explore and find secrets (BFG for example, although it was at the end anyways), but I had to cross the sewers many times which was tedious and ended up clipping through the barrier instead. Is there a chance you could add a switch to lower that barrier from before? maybe the RK switch behind SMM could do that too.- I run low on ammo at the end, granted all the 15 secrets helped me to not run out of everything but maybe adding a non-secret plasma rifle would help.

 

Map06:

 

 

- At the nukage room at the leftmost room, where there are some rockets scattered. I'm not sure I saw  a radiation suit anywhere, and the nukage did 20% damage so I opted to ignore those rockets. I think a radsuit would be good.

- At the end, after flipping the switch that cut the lights, you have to somehow get to the exit (forgot to pick the googles). When I dropped into the middle section (with bedrooms), there was no way back to the central ring, and I missed a couple secrets. So no point of return, is that intentional? Just curious.

 

Map07:

 

- The only thing I would add is a couple more boxes of shells or rockets, since I run out of ammo at some point, those pain elementals can easily go wild in the open and soak all your ammo.

- Oh and, at the final area with the SMM and stuff, it could be wise to add monster block lines around the teleport that takes you to the exit. I telefragged a cacodemon, which means it could have been the spider and would have "broken" the fight.

- I found this exit linedef with IDDT. Coop maybe?

 

Also, this issue.

 

 


MAP05:
1) Red skull key and red card on this map have pretty different purposes. This is boom mapset so it's possible to use same colored key and card for different doors.
2) This happened because you used this switch in the beginning instead going to sewers, you have deprived yourself of the opportunity to use this path in the future. It was planning initially, usually most players should visit sewers again (I am considering the opportunity to lower the barrier after mastermind). The lack of plasma-gun was intentional, there are berserk and chainsaw, so you can save many ammo on pinkies at least. This map is not so tough so the main point here is exploring.

MAP06:
1) There are lot of radsuits on this map but most of them required blue key.
2) Yes, some places will be shut down later, so it was intentional. Luckily on most maps you can revisit areas.

MAP07:
1) Lure elementals to close areas where you inside (skull towers, yellow key area, marble area, e.t.c). If they are flied far away, better don't mess with them on this sprawling area because you'll miss and waste rockets. Otherwise, search for rad-suits, to walk on the sky safely. Myself I had enough rockets in the end.
2) SMM can not use this teleporter because only he can trigger tag 666 which will lower this pedestal later.
3) Only for multiplayer reasons.

About shifted episode text: as I understand it happening only when using low resolution. Strangely enough, it seems you had hi-resolution? Anyways, I will add \n\n expressions to move text to a new paragraphs in Dehacked.

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Answers:

 

Spoiler

 

Map05:

 

1) Oh, I honestly did not distinguish what the red keycard and skull were used for, my bad.

2) I saw it blocking the way at the beginning and went to the sewers instead, seemed to be the intended way. If you mean the switch next to the barrier, it's only usable once you cross the sewers, right?. I get the idea that the barrier gets raised back later, so you're forced to revisit that place so you fight the revs/vile, then release the SMM and stuff and you're sort of "locked-in", even though there's an escape. About the ammo, I found the chainsaw a little late, and used melee occasionally. Personally I had no problems with ammo, I was thinking of players who don't have it easy to find secrets, but the point of exploring is clear since the first map (in Urania too), plus your secrets are not hard to spot, so it's all justified. 

 

Map06:

 

1) Correct. Lots of radsuits in your maps are appreciated.

2) Okie dokie 

 

Map07:

 

1) Sure, at the end I also had plenty of rockets that I found on the void (similar case in Urania's map15). The thing was that switch in the U-shaped bridge, which summoned revs and a PE on that red island, I went there to kill them asap and used the lifts to get the radsuit so I could retreat safely, but that summoned a bunch of flying things on the opposite tower. Several minutes later I realized that the RK was supposed to spawn on the red island, and those flying things were a trap I released too early. It's fine, those pain elementals left me really salty yesterday. 

2) Ohhhhhhhhh ok.

 

Yes, 1600x900 resolution, software mode.

 

 

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Got to map14. At the moment the only thing I found to correct in map 13 is this sector marked as secret. There was also a slime trail visible from this spot, but it's not really important.

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On map 31 at the moment. Some comments:

 

Spoiler

Map15:

 

- This secret sector apparently gets sealed once the bridge is raised. I left a radsuit there thinking that it could be helpful later but I couldn't use it. Is there a chance that the bridge acts as a lift?

 

Map31:

 

- After the grey muddy conveyors, enemies on pillars (chaingunners, plasma dudes) can fall off if you shoot them. Could you add block lines around them? Unless it's intended, but that could create infinite height shenanigans. 

- Also, is there a chance you could add some more teleports on the void?. Or move the existing ones closer to any platform. I know there are at least three or four in different locations, very distanced from surface though, and a few radsuits around, but everytime I got knocked off I either took a huge chunk of damage just to find a way back to surface or died. Basically a huge "inescapable" pit if you can't see those teleports or radsuits near you, and it's very easy to fall off, accidentally or not, sometimes instinctive when you can't escape homing projectiles or flying enemies. If you don't agree with my idea, I would still suggest to make those already existing teleports more visible somehow, since I had to use the automap to locate them (while I was dying heh).

- This is more of a praise comment: I freaking love the sky. Hope it doesn't give me nightmares :P

 

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So I just finished Adonis (on HMP), and I must say it's pretty damn good.

 

Should also note that I'm really not a fan of puzzle maps, so the simple fact that I managed to beat it is impressive. The only things I didn't like was the design of MAP31, looks like its floating, similar to an earlier map (with the red, organic-looking sky) but I forgot its number. It just kinda messes with your eyes after a while, and can easily lead to confusion, but otherwise, the maps themselves are solid. Also, enemies behind transparent walls can get annoying on a few occasions, particularly in those instances where its very hard to tell where the said portion of transparent wall/window is. Well, at least there's not many enemies behind them.

 

Like someone else mentioned before, the flying evil eyes should have their weight increased. That's not an issue when fighting them indoors, but outdoors... a SSG blast sends them to space... Or make them weaker so an SSG blast or a single rocket kills them, I'm fine either way.

 

I took my time with Adonis too. No less than 11 hours in total, and spent at least one hour on each level, at some point I was finding more secrets than progress 1.0  . Overall, I did enjoy it for sure, much more than I expected actually (as I already said, puzzle maps are really not my cup of tea in general).

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@galileo31dos01 @seed
I will consider your feedback. And yes, the MAP31 sky is my idea specially for this map.

Also there are bonus MAP33, but it can be a bit unbalanced. It's just outtakes from Urania merged onto one map.

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