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TheNoob_Gamer

Difficulty hub map in Vanilla Doom/Boom

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Recently I got hooked on Eternity, and when I was searching for a download link, I came across this build, which contains a hub map that lets you choose the difficulty settings, just like Quake. 
Here is a small video, in case you don't understand what I'm trying to say: (skip to 0:26 for the actual video.)


So, to sum up my question: Is this possible in Vanilla Doom or Boom?

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As far as I can tell, not really. At the very least, definitely not in Vanilla.

 

Essentially these maps would work (on a flexible engine) by setting a game skill variable. In Vanilla, that's only ever set by the menu, because you have no scripting or that level of access to the engine's guts.

 

It's perhaps theoretically possible for Boom, but as far as I know, in that regard its the same as Vanilla - only settable in the menus, not by scripting.

 

If someone has an example to prove me wrong though, by all means.

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4 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

So, to sum up my question: Is this possible in Vanilla Doom or Boom?

No, and no.

 

Best you can approach is have your hub map on MAP15, put your easy map on MAP16, and your hard map on MAP31. Of course if you want more than two (non-hub) maps in your set, that won't help.

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What if you used secret exits in a hub world to take you to different versions of the same level?

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That's what I said, isn't it?

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You could use a teleporter so that map 15 is your "normal" map.

 

So, three doors -- one leads to a regular exit for the "easy" map, one leads to a teleporter to the "normal" map, one leads to a secret exit for the "hard" map.

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Using that method will actually give you three times the number of exits of difficulties, since ITYTD and NM also change the gameplay. So for example a player could start the game on ITYTD and choose the "hard" exit, and start on NM and choose the "easy" exit.

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It can be done in boom on any map as long as you like setting up conveyor belts and voodoo doll triggers.  You will need your map to be empty initially, and depending on which skill you choose (which linedef you cross) it will teleport one of three different sets of monsters into the map.  Setting up teleport destinations for all these will be tiring, but if you are patient it can be done

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20 hours ago, GoatLord said:

What if you used secret exits in a hub world to take you to different versions of the same level?

 

Which for vanilla or Boom, would only work on the maps that are hard-coded to have secret exits. That is why Gez said you put your hub map on Map 15, because that is hard-coded to have secret exits in Doom 2. You could do the same thing with a hub map in the Map 31 slot, because then you could have a regular exit (one difficulty) lead to Map 16 and the secret exit (the other difficulty) lead to Map 32.

 

For Doom 1, you could do this on E1M3, E2M5, E3M6, and/or E4M2.

 

If you just put a hub in a random level and added a secret exit, it wouldn't behave appropriately (in vanilla/Boom) if it wasn't one of the pre-defined map slots.

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9 hours ago, dt_ said:

It can be done in boom on any map as long as you like setting up conveyor belts and voodoo doll triggers.  You will need your map to be empty initially, and depending on which skill you choose (which linedef you cross) it will teleport one of three different sets of monsters into the map.  Setting up teleport destinations for all these will be tiring, but if you are patient it can be done

 

That would work. The only thing you would need to add would be a line somewhere shortly before the exit that would activate crushers in all the conveyer belt areas. Strictly speaking, this isn't necessary, but it would avoid the complaints from people saying "I can't 100% this map!" if you were to leave sets of monsters alive out in their conveyor belt closets.

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2 hours ago, Pegleg said:

 

That would work. The only thing you would need to add would be a line somewhere shortly before the exit that would activate crushers in all the conveyer belt areas. Strictly speaking, this isn't necessary, but it would avoid the complaints from people saying "I can't 100% this map!" if you were to leave sets of monsters alive out in their conveyor belt closets.

To be extra safe you also want to have the teleports happen after you entered the portal, just in case the player backtracks for another difficulty, with enough distance so you don't hear them if you care about this. And the crushers should be activated around the same time.

 

Honestly @dt_'s idea is brilliant, if labor intensive. Though I wager you could have a duplicated teleporter row for each difficulty. This way you're actually having a relatively easy time, since you can leave empty teleport boxes and have a quick reference of which monster you swapped for which difficulty.

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As long as you make sure that the player can't somehow backtrack and cross 2 difficulty lines, and you have a crusher setup ready to execute any redundant monsters for maxkills, you're laughing.  You can even set the sector special to any of the '...end level' ones and some ports won't count the monsters on startup.  Only problem I've had using this method is that sometimes you want a monster in a very specific place, such as a turret or tucked behind a corner; the inertia in the monster from the conveyor causes the monster to move slightly as it is teleported, so they will all move from the teleport dests a short distance and in some cases look a bit weird or maybe get stuck

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Theoretically, if your maps are small enough, you could include, say, 3 maps in one physical map, and setup teleporters at the map start that would take you to one of each internal map. In other words, all three "maps" exist in one map, but are inaccessible to each other, and can only be accessed by one of the teleporters at the player start. Tricky, but it could work if the maps are small enough. It's a neat concept.

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17 minutes ago, kb1 said:

Theoretically, if your maps are small enough, you could include, say, 3 maps in one physical map, and setup teleporters at the map start that would take you to one of each internal map. In other words, all three "maps" exist in one map, but are inaccessible to each other, and can only be accessed by one of the teleporters at the player start. Tricky, but it could work if the maps are small enough. It's a neat concept.

Scythe 2 - MAP30 is a good example, innit?

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Is it? I don't remember - I'll have to check that out. It's a neat idea: a bit tricky to get right, but definitely doable. To control total blockmap size, you could even interleave map sections, being very careful to avoid sound propagation: You don't want to wake monsters in a different hub! You could even have the exit in the start room with multiple walls that drop when you complete each hub. Maybe the end of each map has a teleporter back to the start room, behind a trigger that drops one of the walls in front of the exit. It's a cool concept!

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I like the idea. By the way you guys could check out Classic Episode 2. It's linear and across multiple maps but it did simulate a hub somehow. I reckon you could implement something similar in a single map with a bit of elbow grease, thus making it more flexible in design.

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