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Jaws In Space

Switcheroom 2 (Now on IDGAMES!!!!!)

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Few more levels with thoughts...

 

Map23 (Tenements as hell by @tourniquet ) is great map, your ending surprise compared to the original got me! But maybe prohibit a rapid escape from the Cyber/Cacos that spawn in the center area.

 

Map28 (Inmost Dens as hell by @cannonball ) is a hugely different reinterpretation of the original, which I don't mind, and was very tough! But it's too sadistic with lack of radsuits (only three I could find before opening blue door), I was dead grabbing the blue key at next to no health and no radsuits left. IMO need at least two more to be reasonable. This is after all a Switcheroom 2 map, it is NOT Obituary Written II (cue @Steve D btw for helping me have knowledge of that map) :P It is also still quite tough in the monster category alone!

 

Musics good for all maps I've played so far (these and 1 + 19).

Edited by FrancisT18 : Correct Map24 to Map28 in 2nd paragraph

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@FrancisT18 and I were talking about @cannonball's MAP28 so I decided to record a demo: bob_swrm2map28.lmp.zip . Might be a bit of a grueling watch, but I do triumph in the end!

 

I like it quite a bit, but it does seem quite hard. I interpreted it as a kind of timing puzzle map, where you have to figure out the route and manage your radsuits (along with the ever-growing horde) to make it through. As far as adding extra radsuits go, I think that really depends on how central you want to make that feeling of needing to race through. In Francis's case, playing with saves, he got himself into an unwinnable position pretty readily. On the other hand, it was a tough but ultimately fun challenge for me, playing without saves from pistol start. That's kinda the dynamic with a "race to the end" map like Run From It (same slot, interestingly!) or, say, the Nightmare!-only DBP set. And again, it's not a bad thing, it just depends on whether that fits in the set.

 

Which does allow me to circle back to the question of difficulty I've been thinking about re: my own map. I dialed the difficulty down for the second version of my map, vaguely trying to put it more in line with IWAD difficulty and now feel like I probably should dial back up a bit for the third revision. Roughly speaking, what do people think is a good rule of thumb for calibrating a particular map's difficulty vs. IWAD difficulty of your episode/inspiration map vs. "modern" (say Scythe) difficulty?

Edited by Big Ol Billy

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Just pitching that I think @Big Ol Billymeant MAP28 in the first sentence...AND I also mislabeled it Map24 in my previous post. I guess we're both guilty lol. Otherwise...I'd say his thoughts largely echo mine too.

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19 hours ago, Big Ol Billy said:

Which does allow me to circle back to the question of difficulty I've been thinking about re: my own map. I dialed the difficulty down for the second version of my map, vaguely trying to put it more in line with IWAD difficulty and now feel like I probably should dial back up a bit for the third revision. Roughly speaking, what do people think is a good rule of thumb for calibrating a particular map's difficulty vs. IWAD difficulty of your episode/inspiration map vs. "modern" (say Scythe) difficulty?

I've been telling most people to lower the difficulty of their maps, including you. I don't want to see the difficulty of this project to increase any higher that it is now. There's still a few maps that need to be adjusted further based on reviews, including Maps 15, 16, & 28.

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Sorry for not getting back sooner, quickly applied a few changes to map14 in hell style.

 

Causticdenv.2.zip

 

Changes;

- More radsuits added

- Box of rockets added in the blue armour area

- In the western area (Blue key), the pillars where the mancubi teleport in has been lowered slightly, also the monster composition in hose cages has been changed.

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@cannonball

Somehow the map in on Map24 instead of Map28. I loaded it with the beta WAD and played like 8 minutes and I didn't feel any difference... Pay me that 8 minutes back :P (JK)

 

Right now the Radsuits are fine. I think maybe a couple of Medikits at the beginning would be better since the first fight is actually quite tough. Around the starting area, there are only 4 Stimpacks (2 with the MegaArmor, 2 in front of the Red Door).

 

Maybe put a Shotgun at the beginning so the player won't be forced to switch into Shotgun during the hectic first fight. (If you want to leave it as hardness, make it HNTR/HMP only :P)

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Map 28 is utter fucking garbage due to forced pain sector whilst dodging archviles. Plain and simple. In a way, you're forcing the player to essentially speedrun the map, without having any modicum of momentum breaks. Kinda reminds me of Run From It from Scythe. Terrible idea of it being forced pain sector, and it won't bode well with a lot of players. I for one would change the fact of it being pain sector to regular blood floor, just like the original Inmost Dens.

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Hey everyone, since feedback has slowed down for the past few days I think now is a good time for an update.

 

Switcheroom 2 Beta V0.2 

 

Changelog

Added CWILV & Credit Graphics

Map 5 - Removed Red Key
Map 7 - Fixed softlock caused by yellow key door.
Map 8 - Fixed bleeding midtexture in sewer area.
Map 11 - Updated by Author
Map 12 - Nukage actully damages player now.
Map 15 - Updated by Author
Map 16 - Adjusted monster placement.
Map 18 - Fixed HOM at sector 161.
Map 22 - Cyber is no longer held back by a monster block line.
Map 24 - Updated by Author
Map 28 - Updated by Author
Map 29 - Fixed softlock by thing 1047. Added an escape from sector 3.
Map 30 - Sector 31 can be opened from both sides.
Map 32 - Updated by Author

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Going to be playing this next on my livestream, hopefully starting at some point this weekend.

 

I hope it's good.

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I played the first 9 maps normally on UV in Gzdoom, but I was practically drowning in ammo since MAP05 and it became too easy. So I played the rest of the maps with pistol starts, but like others already mentioned here, I run into difficulties in some of them. I don't necessarily view it as a bad thing (some stock D2 maps are pretty hard with pistol starts too), but I mention it for the sake of completeness. And I noticed some other issues in the beta 0.1, but maybe some were already addressed in the recent beta 0.2:

 

MAP09: obligatory EXIT sign is missing.

 

MAP12: what's the deal with green slime floor in blue key area? Is it supposed to be damaging or not? And if so, why is there a radsuit in the baron closet but nowhere else?

 

MAP15: misaligned textures on linedefs 1661 and 1662.

 

MAP19: there is severe ammo shortage in the starting area if playing from pistol start. But ammo suddenly becomes plentiful after you obtain the blue key, redistributing it would help.

 

MAP20: similar to MAP19, I completely run out of ammo because I chose "wrong" path after pistol start.

 

MAP23: elemental 492 is facing the wrong way. Revenants 180 and 181 possibly too. I had to look in editor how to release archvile 509, maybe its trigger line should be elsewhere or the door (linedef 2156) made more obvious. Isn't sector 365 supposed to be secret? And... the computer map secret closes after 30 seconds? Really? It's hard to make it in time even with no monsters.

 

MAP24: there are ammo shortages in the first half, but it's not a big problem because it's very easy to employ monster infighting. Ammo then suddenly becomes plentiful after the player finds the RL (and even more so if he finds plasma). Textures on linedefs 243 etc. move when the secret door opens, I think some miss the unpegged setting.

 

MAP27: definitely the most difficult map of the pack, pistol start or not (I tried both). With pistol start, I died several times to hitscan snipers, not due to lack of ammo. And using the invisibility is out of the question here, there is too thick crossfire from arachnotrons when trying to provoke infighting.

 

MAP28: this is a prime example of a map that's impossible to beat from pistol start unless the player exactly knows where to run and what to expect (at least on UV). The main problem is lack of radsuits in the starting area, there needs to be at least one more. There is also critical ammo shortage until you open the red door, but it's pretty tight afterwards, too. This is compounded by the fact there are lots of elementals and archviles. Unless the player knows about them (or has bad luck), they may spam so many monsters the player runs out of ammo. Overally, this the most ammo-tight map of the pack.

 

MAP29: I became stuck in the spectre trap area (sector 293 etc). I used the chaingunner/vile teleporter (linedef 5979) and dropped back into the trap area, but I couldn't find any way out. Probably the easiest fix is to make linedef 1914 as SR. Sector 374 shouldn't be secret. Cacos become trapped behind linedef 3120. Linedefs 4306 and 4307 need to be longer, I missed them and the revs didn't teleport in. Monsters in sector 610 never became active. Archvile 1787 didn't teleport out even when I noclipped there to activate it. Sectors 176 and 181 are too low, the player can't walk into them and pick up some stuff (notably the green armor). And what's the deal with slow exit door (sector 908)? I killed all the imps and then waited for about a minute for it to open. IMO the linedefs to crush archviles in the spectre trap area should be moved right behind the red key teleporter, so the player doesn't need to wait even longer for 100% kills.

Edited by Caleb13

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Oh, I almost forgot: GZdoom logs these errors in some maps:

 

MAP04 - Map22

Removing 0-length line 1132
Map has 1 unused sidedefs

 

MAP20 - Map05

Unknown top texture '--' on first side of linedef 53
Unknown top texture '--' on first side of linedef 57
Unknown top texture '--' on first side of linedef 71
Unknown top texture '--' on first side of linedef 74
Unknown top texture '--' on first side of linedef 75
Unknown top texture '--' on first side of linedef 76
Unknown top texture '--' on first side of linedef 79
Unknown top texture '--' on first side of linedef 80
Unknown top texture '--' on second side of linedef 100

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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/732443438 = maps 1-13.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/734469302 = maps 14-23. (plus 31 and 32)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/737274481 = maps 24-30.

 

Good stuff overall, and I particularly liked map 31 and map 29. Also nice that the mapset doesn't end with a lame Icon of Sin, always a plus from me!

 

I noticed a few texture misalignments on various levels. Map 29's multiple crusher room in the fleshy bit stopped after I left the area once, which could have caused an awkward softlock (didn't for me). Didn't see too many problems otherwise in general.

 

Switcheroom 3 combining TNT/Plutonia when? ;)

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@Jaws In Space out of curiousity, what was the reasoning behind the removal of bluefeena's Maps? I remember Them from an early alpha and both were really decent. IMO better than the ones they've got replaced with now.

 

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8 hours ago, tourniquet said:

@Jaws In Space out of curiousity, what was the reasoning behind the removal of bluefeena's Maps? I remember Them from an early alpha and both were really decent. IMO better than the ones they've got replaced with now.

 

I was arguing in favor of Joe-Ilyas crusher map over Bluefeena's sine 2014, & Bluefeena's Focus map was the worst map ever submitted to this project. You can argue whether Walter's or Joe's map is good or not, but they are unquestionably better that what Bluefeena made.

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Lol im not interested in any arguments, was just curious. I liked both of feenas maps but in the end my taste in doom maps isn't perhaps the most adequate, so nvm.

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V3.a of "Tomb of the apostate", fixed all the bugs found by GarrettChan like... more than 2 months ago.

Fixed also the misaligned SKSPINE2 textures at the final yellow skull door room near the exit that Suitepee found out.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/o5n1pihaxy9fd9n/focus-in-hell-style-2.wad/file

 

Hope now everything is good now

Edited by Walter confetti

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I played @Noiser' s Map29 a little bit ago, a visually beautiful and truly hellish reinterpretation of Tricks and Traps! Really have no marks against this one at all in design or aesthetic or how the original map was reinterpreted. It is maybe somewhat easy in parts though. I think there are a few too many Supercharges and it's somewhat too generous in giving out several weapons in a single 'wing' of the map. The original only let you get one weapon per 'wing' (none in the wings having the keys or exit).

 

The Revenants instead of Imps at the (now) blue key was a great evil surprise, but the room is easily inescapable. Lastly the end felt kinda anticlimactic, all that time waiting for the exit to lower and there is nothing but a few Cacos you have to ward off, no monster in the exit itself either, would be a great spot for another Cyber.

 

A fundamentally excellent level though, a bit more teeth and I think it can easily be among the best! I write this in hopes that potential can be fully realized.

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Hi people, sorry for my long absence. I had a lot of stuff going on during the quarentine and because of that I didn't had much time to be active here. Thankfully, everything seems to be back on track and I think I can post more frequently now.
 

@Jaws In Space the name of the track is simply called "E2M2 remix", made by SidZetmeck.
 

On 9/10/2020 at 6:12 PM, Suitepee said:

Oh, that was a bit embarassing! I just realized how my map is not able to work on continuous play, due to the gimmicky\puzzle nature of it. Even with my efforts to balance around it, most if not all gimmicks lose their purpose when the player have all weapons or tons of ammo, which makes the level a lot easier. I'm aware this is expected from a continuous playthrough, but it's aggravating here due to this type of map that relies on unusual stuff to work.


@Jaws In Space, I think a good solution would be using a death exit for the map before mine or I may have to rebalance everything from scratch, which can be a bit difficult. On the meantime I will fix all the softlocks and improve everything I can.
 

On 9/19/2020 at 4:32 PM, FrancisT18 said:

The Revenants instead of Imps at the (now) blue key was a great evil surprise, but the room is easily inescapable. Lastly the end felt kinda anticlimactic, all that time waiting for the exit to lower and there is nothing but a few Cacos you have to ward off, no monster in the exit itself either, would be a great spot for another Cyber.

Thanks a lot! The player should not leave the arena like the Suitepee did (it's totally my fault tho). I will try to fix that. About the final combat, I'm kinda against maps that end with harsh opposition because I like to play without saves (and this is a long map to repeat if you're going for 100% kills). But I will try to make it more exciting, maybe increasing the number of flying enemies. I'm not sure what to put on the exit room, but I will think about it too.
 

On 9/4/2020 at 4:22 PM, Caleb13 said:

MAP29: I became stuck in the spectre trap area (sector 293 etc). I used the chaingunner/vile teleporter (linedef 5979) and dropped back into the trap area, but I couldn't find any way out. Probably the easiest fix is to make linedef 1914 as SR. Sector 374 shouldn't be secret. Cacos become trapped behind linedef 3120. Linedefs 4306 and 4307 need to be longer, I missed them and the revs didn't teleport in. Monsters in sector 610 never became active. Archvile 1787 didn't teleport out even when I noclipped there to activate it. Sectors 176 and 181 are too low, the player can't walk into them and pick up some stuff (notably the green armor). 

Thanks a lot, I will try to fix all of these asap. Funnily enough I though I was fixed the crusher softlock before sending the file, but something got wrong heh

Edited by Noiser

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1 hour ago, Noiser said:

Oh, that was a bit embarassing! I just realized how my map is not able to work on continuous play, due to the gimmicky\puzzle nature of it. Even with my efforts to balance around it, most if not all gimmicks lose their purpose when the player have all weapons or tons of ammo, which makes the level a lot easier. I'm aware this is expected from a continuous playthrough, but it's aggravating here due to this type of map that relies on unusual stuff to work.


@Jaws In Space, I think a good solution would be using a death exit for the map before mine or I may have to rebalance everything from scratch, which can be a bit difficult. On the meantime I will fix all the softlocks and improve everything I can.

I'm not going to implement a any death exit's into the wad. It can be frustrating when a maps balance is broken due to continuous play, Map 16 of TNT: Revilution comes to mind, but that's what happens sometimes. You can make changes to address continuous players, but all that would do is break the balance for pistol start.

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On 9/10/2020 at 2:12 PM, Suitepee said:

 

Thanks for the playthrough. Couple quick comments on MAP06 (Industrial Zone as Starport episode):

 

Re: the pointless teleporter - the original MAP15 lets you access the central tower with the yellow key both by the teleporter behind the red door, as well as jumping into the lava and taking a teleporter up. I figured since it's being moved to an early episode map (and a Starport one) it made more sense to make it much more straightforward (i.e. you can just walk up and take the obvious lift) but it does make the teleporter feel a bit surplus. I slapped the red door on since the way up is much more apparent.

 

And you're right on that little lift gap, I noticed that too (well, I think the problem is actually that the ledge holding the fence texture is wide enough for the player to sit on). IIRC the little gap is there for texturing reasons... should be able to fix it though by just making the ledge linedef impassible.

 

SteveD made a comment that it was too easy, and it probably is, especially on continuous, due to being moved from the original slot - it was originally balanced for being MAP02 and you wouldn't be nearly as stocked up. To think people actually complained about the difficulty being too high at one point. Oh well.

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Hey everyone, it seems that feedback has slowed down so I think that it's time to start wrapping this project up & finally getting it released. If anyone want's to make any further updates to their maps please get them to be by November. Meanwhile I will be playing through each map thoroughly this month to ensure vanilla compatibility & locate any last minute bugs.

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On 9/11/2020 at 6:50 AM, tourniquet said:

Lol im not interested in any arguments, was just curious. I liked both of feenas maps but in the end my taste in doom maps isn't perhaps the most adequate, so nvm.

I remember Bluefeena's crusher Map got me in a fit of rage when I first played it. There was a pain sector floor in the start area. Which was a problem for continuous play considering there wasn't much health or rad suit available. Second I remember one section had a bunch of monsters shooting you through impassible walls. They weren't see through walls either they were fireblu.

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hello , i played this and it was fun and really long and hard on ultra violence skill with no any pistol starts meaning without to die just load save on each death

some of the final maps had few problems of balance , i know its beta and as i played it i would like to point to say some problems it have for helping to fix and improve it (maps i mention are the maps themselfs on the slots):

map 23 as a hard map to map 24 after needs better conncetion map 24 was feels it had to bit less ammo and even little less medkits at least small ones

and minor thing in map 23: is the room with the lava and the two white teleporters no any problem with it and works it just seems not clean and weird the cutoff texture of the white teleporter.

map 26: this map had problems too the spot with the many archviles near the end of it lacked ammo make it close to impossible the map needs more ammo and some balance touchs of ammo and medkits.

map 27 : really challenging and liked it but seems to me its not possible to do this map on pistol start only so it needs items touchs of weapons and ammo and few more medkits.

map 28: its possbile to skip the map end of blue skull key without to get it by using jumping in sourceports so or to block it some way or just to do in mapinfo the no jump flag

map 29: this map really isnt bad but its seems it might be impossible to do it with a pistol start to me beucase it have so many monsters and with a pistol start the weapons and ammo just wont be enough , and a VERY serious problem on this map is in the room where its the red skull key blocked by the blue skull key till you get it

in the room down to it with the moving crashing walls once you get out of this room after first time the walls will stop to move meaning they will block it so its impossible to go through it , i went to here before getting the blue skull so i could get the red skull key from the teleporter of the moving crashing walls room

so this is buged as it breaks the game if you would go to this room before getting the blue skull key you wont be able to get in again once you get the blue skull so you can get the red skull the teleporter takes you too , sadly i was forced to use noclip cheat buecase it was impossible to go thorugh it again , fixing should be to just KEEP THE WALLS MOVING to fix this.

map 30: seems some balance needed if you would start this with pistol only , as the room with the spidermastermind and the arachnotrons and few cyberdemons

would not be possible with pistol start only on map so this needs some placements touchs too.

i know its beta unfinished still great maps , there might be some more few placement tweaks needed for more maps maybe for making it possible with pistol start only on all the maps. 

maybe on ultra violence it needs touchs beucase the spawnfilter is harder with more monsters.

and for me it was fun to play this it just needs some tweaks and balance and few fixes

 

Edited by spforce

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I will try to post an update for my map very soon. I tried to finish it up in time, but I'm not sure if it's good enough yet.

I've been working hard to improve the balance for both continuous and pistol start and fix everything I can. Hopefully I will be able to finish it in one or two days (not sure yet, but that's what I want). 
 

Spoiler

Wish me luck!

image.png.74e808b84f7d613af30e5ffb86c06cf0.png

 

Edited by Noiser

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