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Jaska

Lost Civilization - 22-map fun and nonlinear megawad - now with download link!

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This is an amazing project, the outdoor areas are gorgeous, fantastic maps! Tons of details! Congratulations! ++++

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Best mapset I've seen in a long while... maybe ever. Truly a Doom mapping achievement. Thank you very much for your work.

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Agreed with all the sentiments expressing just how good this WAD is (including "registered here to post this") -- it's really quite spectacular. There's a few maps I didn't love, but most of them were at least very good, ranging to some of the best I've ever seen in Doom. The final map is especially impressive, and is easily the best-looking and most intricate techbase I've ever seen. Really, really well done!

 

If you wanted to see yet another run through of the maps with a mod, I recorded a UV-fast playthrough using High Noon Drifter here:

 

These recordings were probably my third or fourth run through each map, so I knew most of what to expect, but it wasn't until the very last couple of attempts that I managed to find all the secrets! Some of them are really cleverly hidden, but I'm glad that none of them required wallhumping random panels to see which one opened. They all felt like secrets that rewarded attentiveness, not random luck, which was much appreciated.

 

Anyway, hope to see more maps from you in the future! Thanks again for putting this together.

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@Buff Skeleton Thanks a lot! Well there was some "older" maps which I hesitated to put in, if you happen to mean them. At least they weren't too long, heh. Watched the first video(will try to watch them all) and your play and the mods look good! Have to check those mods out myself.

 

Actually I'm already working on "part 2"

It got quite fast start but now development has slowed down a bit. But almost every day something happens.

 

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Amazing wad!  I got through the levels, the last two are crazy.  I did have confusion at the end - first time in the cluster the guy in the center was killed in the crossfire, explosions go up, including hitting me, and I'm killed, start back up at my last save point.  Then I'm thinking that guy in the middle must be kept alive during the fight.  I was wandering around for so long searching for where or how to exit.

 

Didn't run into any bugs, just once I hopped on a conveyor belt that trapped me next to a barrel and I noclip'd instead of reverting back to the last save-point.

 

Difficulty throughout felt right on, nothing too easy, nothing insanely impossible.  Map 19 was close, though, I had to use god mode to figure out how the level worked then went back and beat it legitimately, wouldn't have figured it out otherwise.

 

Also like to comment, it's in an earlier level, the bathroom mirror for some reason I had to stop and check it out in full detail.  Nice touch!

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Great to hear about the sequel, and an ambitious project at that! Will be interesting to see how everything comes together there. Good luck!

 

As for the older maps, I'm guessing Fort and Prison were among those? They definitely ranked lower than the others for me -- Fort for being kinda dull, and Prison for having very bland visuals (though it was a lot more fun to play). They were short, though, which was good!

 

I'd also put the beginning and middle of Division near the lower end of the ranks for the unclear progression at the start. Do you kill the Cyberdemons and Archviles, or do you just flee? If you kill them, it's a bit of a slog since so much of the usable ground turns to lava, which punishes repositioning. And trying to flee can be difficult when rockets are coming at you; I once got killed because the elevator didn't come down before they hit. This might be more of a problem because of fast monsters, though.

 

The middle segment of Division, while fun since it leaves you strapped for ammo (nice change of pace), had a lot of sparsely-decorated areas that looked unfinished, yet you could still access them (like the armor / health / ammo secret on the rooftops). The platforming isn't my favorite thing in Doom either, but I think that's a sentiment shared by a lot of others. The ending was great, though, and looked really cool -- especially seeing the cityscape merging with the hellscape. I've always enjoyed that kind of stuff.

 

The only other map I'd say was below average (of the maps in this WAD, not of all I've played) for me was Nightmare, but mainly because it was really difficult in a few specific spots -- again, probably just because of fast monsters -- like the second Baron trap where they come at you from all directions and you have barely any room to maneuver. With fast monsters, they never stop flinging fireballs, so you pretty much have to just kill them instead of waiting for them to close in and teleport (didn't even realize this was the gimmick the first couple times I played the map). Killing them is almost impossible if you're pistol starting, but still quite difficult even with a BFG and ammo to spare. That spot usually knocks about half of my health off at least, which makes the rest of the map a lot more tense because of all the hitscanners in dark places. I don't think that the rest of the map is necessarily a bad thing, but it's a very different style of play from the other maps leading up to that point.

 

But when you consider the high-end maps, wow, they are extremely high-end. I'd say the first five maps are absolutely incredible, City Center is a blast, Mansion has great combat and pacing, and Final is probably my overall favorite for its epic scale and complexity. River Valley is a close second, followed by Oceanside for its incredible views. Lost in the Forest is very accurately named. It's rare for me to find myself truly lost in an FPS these days, yet I certainly did lose my bearings here. Great stuff.

 

Anyway, I had originally played v1.4 of the WAD and noticed a few glitches, but when I replayed v1.5, they seemed to have all been cleaned up. Nice work, and thanks again. Going to keep a close eye on the sequel!

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19 hours ago, Buff Skeleton said:

Great to hear about the sequel, and an ambitious project at that! Will be interesting to see how everything comes together there. Good luck!

Thanks! It already feels fun to play. Nonlinearity gives playtesting a nice angle, not getting bored to test. And if I will get then there is something wrong.

 

19 hours ago, Buff Skeleton said:

As for the older maps, I'm guessing Fort and Prison were among those? They definitely ranked lower than the others for me -- Fort for being kinda dull, and Prison for having very bland visuals (though it was a lot more fun to play). They were short, though, which was good!

 

Yes. I was thinking to leave them out but there was feedback for example on fort that it shouldn't be dropped out.

 

19 hours ago, Buff Skeleton said:

I'd also put the beginning and middle of Division near the lower end of the ranks for the unclear progression at the start. Do you kill the Cyberdemons and Archviles, or do you just flee? If you kill them, it's a bit of a slog since so much of the usable ground turns to lava, which punishes repositioning. And trying to flee can be difficult when rockets are coming at you; I once got killed because the elevator didn't come down before they hit. This might be more of a problem because of fast monsters, though.

 

That was an experimental level. There was a good feedback on this to put it as a secret level but it came a bit too late. I'm sure it was much harder on fast monsters while I got sometimes also killed when waiting the lift without fast monsters.

 

19 hours ago, Buff Skeleton said:

The middle segment of Division, while fun since it leaves you strapped for ammo (nice change of pace), had a lot of sparsely-decorated areas that looked unfinished, yet you could still access them (like the armor / health / ammo secret on the rooftops). The platforming isn't my favorite thing in Doom either, but I think that's a sentiment shared by a lot of others. The ending was great, though, and looked really cool -- especially seeing the cityscape merging with the hellscape. I've always enjoyed that kind of stuff.

 

The only other map I'd say was below average (of the maps in this WAD, not of all I've played) for me was Nightmare, but mainly because it was really difficult in a few specific spots -- again, probably just because of fast monsters -- like the second Baron trap where they come at you from all directions and you have barely any room to maneuver. With fast monsters, they never stop flinging fireballs, so you pretty much have to just kill them instead of waiting for them to close in and teleport (didn't even realize this was the gimmick the first couple times I played the map). Killing them is almost impossible if you're pistol starting, but still quite difficult even with a BFG and ammo to spare. That spot usually knocks about half of my health off at least, which makes the rest of the map a lot more tense because of all the hitscanners in dark places. I don't think that the rest of the map is necessarily a bad thing, but it's a very different style of play from the other maps leading up to that point.

 

Another level which I should have put on as a secret level. I'm sure with fast monsters it sure was difficult. Problem with the baron trap is you are not given enough of clue they will teleport off, but that is kind of a point of it too.

This and division were meant to be different but maybe they were even too much different compared the other levels.

 

 

19 hours ago, Buff Skeleton said:

 

But when you consider the high-end maps, wow, they are extremely high-end. I'd say the first five maps are absolutely incredible, City Center is a blast, Mansion has great combat and pacing, and Final is probably my overall favorite for its epic scale and complexity. River Valley is a close second, followed by Oceanside for its incredible views. Lost in the Forest is very accurately named. It's rare for me to find myself truly lost in an FPS these days, yet I certainly did lose my bearings here. Great stuff.

 

Anyway, I had originally played v1.4 of the WAD and noticed a few glitches, but when I replayed v1.5, they seemed to have all been cleaned up. Nice work, and thanks again. Going to keep a close eye on the sequel!

 

Thanks again for the feedback! It is very important to keep up the quality up and motivation also.

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Eternal thanks to Jaska for all your amazing work!!!
I played and recorded the entire playthrough twice for my YT channel. One was co-op with Clusterfuck and the other one was solo with Project Brutality. Both playthroughs were an absolute blast and I'll for sure play it many more times in the future.


Co-op with Clusterfuck 4.0 (part 1) (voice chat enabled)

 


Co-op Playlist (voice chat enabled) The Lost Civilization videos are further into this playlist



Solo with Project Brutality 3.0 Playlist

 

Edited by METAL DANNY 420 : update correction

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Jeeezus. This is some incredibly ambitious mapping. I usually shy away from urban-style, large non-linear maps because most of the time they are confusing to navigate, disappointing in combat and overall poor quality. But these maps are seriously impressive. I haven't gotten through all of them yet. Just completed map 5 and I'm having a blast. Combat is a bit of a mixed bag sometimes but it's not terrible. The action holds up pretty well overall. My biggest complaint would be hit-scanners damaging me from so far away that I can't even recognize where it's coming from.

 

For being Boom compatible, these maps are fairly well detailed. I noticed a handful of clever tricks I hadn't see before (or at least I haven't seen them in a long time.) There are some texture issues though, misaligned textures, odd choices that don't mesh well together, and ones that appear to have a different resolution but overall these occur rarely and aren't too distracting. Also I wish a little more effort would have gone into the lighting, some areas appeared very flat making it hard to differentiate openings in some walls and such.

 

Overall, excellent work here. I can't imagine the amount of time this must have taken. Minor oversights are to be expected in maps of this size but you still managed to keep those issues to a minimum. Also the amount of secrets is greatly appreciated. I rarely spend much time hunting for secrets in most maps, but they're so well designed here. Most secrets here are visible before you encounter them, and I really like that approach. It peaks the player's interest and makes them want to figure out how to get there to collect the item.

 

Well I'm gonna continue playing this all the way through. Just wanted to drop in and leave some positive feedback.

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Can't believe I just found out about this megawad. It looks outwordly. Such an amazing feet indeed. It is quite amazing knowing the artistic capabilities some Doom-mappers have over here. This 22-wel-done-maps just prove me once more that Doom shall never die.

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Such a great map set!  One of my all time favorites, and I've been playing Doom since the first demo.  Everyone will have more or less favorite areas, but I tend to be cautious and prefer to snipe, take my time in every level, and look for all the cool details.  The majority of the design here rewards that style of play.  In addition to all the details in the art, I like that the play is designed to reward the player's progress instead of punishing them for picking up the shiny thing. 

 

Question:  Can anyone help me find all the secrets in Map 20?  I see no full playthroughs on YT, just some long streams that don't cover the secrets.

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I finally finished.  I'm sure I put in at least 16 hours in the whole thing.  I know I had 5h 32 minutes on map 20 :)  I found all the secrets but one.  The  last one with the BFG I had to noclip to find the entrance.  That damn computer bank!!  Anyway, thanks again to Jaska for all the hard work, really an insane amount of work, that you put in on this.

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7 hours ago, Nocturnaloner said:

I finally finished.  I'm sure I put in at least 16 hours in the whole thing.  I know I had 5h 32 minutes on map 20 :)  I found all the secrets but one.  The  last one with the BFG I had to noclip to find the entrance.  That damn computer bank!!  Anyway, thanks again to Jaska for all the hard work, really an insane amount of work, that you put in on this.

 

Thanks for feedback and playing! Yeah, that secret is that kind you wouldn't expect there to be anything. I really thought that secret.. as if it is too rewarding if you randomly stumble into it in like 1 minute of playing. But I took the risk :)

 

1 hour ago, Lingyan203 said:

Looks amazing! Can't wait to play this set one day! However, it does lag at times.

 

It lags even on my laptop on GZDoom. Well this has Intel HD4000 graphics so it's no surprise (Lenovo T430). I've like 15-20 fps on the start of map20 (at worst). Without any ambient occlusion it's nearer to 20. I've always dynamic lights on. On map04 FPS is also something like 15-20.

 

PRBoom works smoothly.

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this was a huge, long trip but I did finish it at last!  

And I only had to cheat on the final two levels, so not to terrible (and even with IDDQD + IDDTx2 it still took me over one hour for The Ending, and i didn't even kill everything, I think I got.. 80-ish% ) :D

So yeah, I do sit on the side that didn't enjoy the Division (it is a awesome map but if I tried to play it fair I'd be there for a year, savescumming every 10 seconds -_- Same for Ending, slaughter is not my cup of tea :P)

My autosave from "Thanks for playing" sets the total time played in 13h19m, but it was a least a few hours more, due to reloads.

 

Also, favorite map is MAP10 (so much I did a separate save to play it whenever I feel like), it does feel like walking around a nightmare!

 

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On 5/22/2020 at 2:00 PM, kalaeth said:

this was a huge, long trip but I did finish it at last!  

And I only had to cheat on the final two levels, so not to terrible (and even with IDDQD + IDDTx2 it still took me over one hour for The Ending, and i didn't even kill everything, I think I got.. 80-ish% ) :D

So yeah, I do sit on the side that didn't enjoy the Division (it is a awesome map but if I tried to play it fair I'd be there for a year, savescumming every 10 seconds -_- Same for Ending, slaughter is not my cup of tea :P)

My autosave from "Thanks for playing" sets the total time played in 13h19m, but it was a least a few hours more, due to reloads.

 

Also, favorite map is MAP10 (so much I did a separate save to play it whenever I feel like), it does feel like walking around a nightmare!

 

 

Thanks for the feedback. Division got divided responses. That was somewhat expected as it was possibly the hardest map and had some experimental parts. I liked making map10 a lot. 

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On 12/13/2019 at 12:50 AM, Jaska said:

 

... There is no dev-diary, but maybe I'll post screenshots from the maps at various stages, how they become what they are.

 

 

Map making process. I posted this to other thread some time ago, so here a little modified version.

 

 If I have an idea which I can't be put on any current map in progress I put it in "ideas map". 
jneuEJO.png
It can be a single detail, some kind of bigger architectural theme, a puzzle or a gameplay scenario. This is handy because it doesn't limit the creativity at all. Problems arise when I'm putting a map together or trying to get thematically cohesive map. Sometimes a single idea just keeps sprawling and I cut that area from "ideas map" to a "real map". And if you run out of ideas on "actual map" go into "ideas map" if you have now a place for those random ideas or get a fresh perspective to old ones.

In map20:

I had many, many different ideas which I put together. It was a total mess at some point but I survived!
vTIzPeJ.png
Also on same month:
UsgcAeP.png

3 months since. Almost all parts are connected and main areas are done.
6D0Eun1.png

So the map WASN'T made like in 3 months. Many of the ideas were like 2-3 years old. They were in "ideas map" and maturing in my

subconsciousness or something. Of course I made tons of new stuff to link all the pieces together. That "linking" can also get you to a creative mood. So you have two ideas and you have to connect them.


Same kind of mess was the forest map.
UtEVTJ0.png

At last some parts were moved to totally other map and big parts were just created on the way.
c9O0h66.png

Why I've had problems to continue. 

-Thematically too cohesive vision. For example if you try to do realistic maps you just can't do layouts that break the illusion too much.
-Trying to get two or more ideas to a map which just don't match.
-Building a great architectural area but have no idea of the gameplay. Like map31 has multiple examples.
-Too much complexity and/or non-linearity.
-Just pushing forward without any clear vision and struggling on that. Stop at this point and do something else for a while.
-I don't know if there are many people who can constantly be creative on one thing. And there is a limit how many times you can overcome your own best work at given time.
 

Some random ideas to make a map:
-A theme. Nature, city, space, void, mystery, tech, medieval, ...
-Figure out a start and ending point. Like, start from land level and climb on higher point (some kind of fortress, other structure, mountain, etc)
-Look pics from image search about architecture, nature, villages etc. which you prefer to.
-Pay attention to detail, everywhere.
-Overdetailing actually helped me to a some point to get going on actually meaningful stuff gameplaywise.
-Figure out a gameplay scenario.
-Try to think which kind of puzzle you would enjoy.
-Barrels
-Changing environment, lowering walls, rising nukage/water levels or lowering water level exposing way to go.. Light level changes.
-Shootable switches, destructible environment.
-Self set timelimit can help or be negative.
-Drawing on paper can help
-New textures
-Put a map you are stuck on to a pause.
-If using GZDoom, new monsters, scripting, new everything

 

 

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This was an amazing wad to play through.

 

Such great, detailed work. Some of the levels were absolute epic adventures. You got the balance of multiple routes and secrets just right. I found many of them but they were only when I would stop and look around and take in the scenery and then figure out how to get to them.

 

While playing through I found some bugs which I'm posting here to contribute to its already stellar quality. Hope they help!

 

 

Edit: seems I'm useless now haha. New to a mac and struggling with basic tools. Some of my text didnt save.

IMG 3 - map showing behind the crates where I got stuck

IMG 6 - no clipping on here, could walk through it

IMG 7 - the fence behind, shown in next shot as well, one sided and no clipping

 

Screenshot_Doom_20200709_192722.png

Screenshot_Doom_20200709_194400.png

Screenshot_Doom_20200709_194412.png

Screenshot_Doom_20200718_143351.png

Screenshot_Doom_20200719_234000.png

Screenshot_Doom_20200720_215928.png

Screenshot_Doom_20200721_172307.png

Screenshot_Doom_20200721_172311.png

Edited by rtpHarry : scale images to fit

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15 hours ago, rtpHarry said:

This was an amazing wad to play through.

 

Such great, detailed work. Some of the levels were absolute epic adventures. You got the balance of multiple routes and secrets just right. I found many of them but they were only when I would stop and look around and take in the scenery and then figure out how to get to them.

 

While playing through I found some bugs which I'm posting here to contribute to its already stellar quality. Hope they help!

 

 

Edit: seems I'm useless now haha. New to a mac and struggling with basic tools. Some of my text didnt save.

IMG 3 - map showing behind the crates where I got stuck

IMG 6 - no clipping on here, could walk through it

IMG 7 - the fence behind, shown in next shot as well, one sided and no clipping

 

Thanks for playing and feedback!

 

-I just can't understand how I missed those ceiling textures.

-I'm quite sure I checked those crates at some point but obviously not.

-Another stupid mistake on Division. Must have do something when I've been aligning textures or I changed the geometry a bit on some point. Interesting how anyone else hasn't fallen there.

-Skipping the key is actually meant to be like that on map20.

-Not blocking bars is.. huh.

-I remember on that railing.. There was some reason I wanted that you could drop down from there. Obviously I should have removed the texture on both sides.

 

 

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Don't worry about it. This mapset is so expansive, so huge, so detailed, that you are bound to overlook something. I didn't find anything unusual when I played it, but I was mostly busy looking at the scenery and dying.

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I just finished playing this with Final Doomer and Bratwurst, and I thought it was absolutely brilliant. My current rig couldn't handle the final two levels, but I enjoyed what I was able to play. The beautiful locals and exploration-driven gameplay were really nice. I only got lost once (Map 04), which was a real breath of fresh air after having just completed Eternal Doom. I think my favorite part was the way each level transitioned to the next with a sort of geographical storytelling. It felt very immersive. I would play a sequel (if my computer could handle it).

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On 10/5/2020 at 7:17 AM, Darman Macray said:

I just finished playing this with Final Doomer and Bratwurst, and I thought it was absolutely brilliant. My current rig couldn't handle the final two levels, but I enjoyed what I was able to play. The beautiful locals and exploration-driven gameplay were really nice. I only got lost once (Map 04), which was a real breath of fresh air after having just completed Eternal Doom. I think my favorite part was the way each level transitioned to the next with a sort of geographical storytelling. It felt very immersive. I would play a sequel (if my computer could handle it).

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

I started working on the sequel on my crappy laptop so it shouldn't be much more harder on hardware. Actually there shouldn't be even near 10k linedefs to be drawn at any point of a map. I put lots of "voids" to prevent the engine for drawing too much.

 

m5ZOlQ8.png

 

 

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What's the name of map 10 midi song? (the one called "nightmare") I can't find anything about it.

 

Great megawad. I beat it in summer 2019. I hope to play it for a second time in UV some day.

Edited by Rednov

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On 10/8/2020 at 9:01 PM, Rednov said:

What's the name of map 10 midi song? (the one called "nightmare") I can't find anything about it.

 

Great megawad. I beat it in summer 2019. I hope to play it for a second time in UV some day.

Thanks!

 

It's 

d_engage.mid

from 

 

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On 10/5/2020 at 12:17 AM, Darman Macray said:

I just finished playing this with Final Doomer and Bratwurst, and I thought it was absolutely brilliant. My current rig couldn't handle the final two levels, but I enjoyed what I was able to play. The beautiful locals and exploration-driven gameplay were really nice. I only got lost once (Map 04), which was a real breath of fresh air after having just completed Eternal Doom. I think my favorite part was the way each level transitioned to the next with a sort of geographical storytelling. It felt very immersive. I would play a sequel (if my computer could handle it).

 

In Gzdoom:

 

1) Press ` to bring down the console (` is above the tab key)

 

2) Type

vid_maxfps 60

and press enter

 

That sets your Frames Per Second to 60.

 

Quote

If non-zero, this variable limits the frame rate to some arbitrary rate between 35 and 1000 FPS. Note that vid_maxfps 35 is not the same as cl_capfps 1: cl_capfps caps the frame rate by tying the video update directly to the game timer. With vid_maxfps 35, the video update and game timer are running on separate timers, and results will not be as good as with cl_capfps 1, which uses only one timer. You can use this in conjunction with vid_vsync to control whether or not the maximum frame rate is restricted to your monitor's refresh rate.

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Posted (edited)

Another amazing co-op playthrough completed on my favorite Wad! Jaska, thank you sooo much for granting us these experiences through your superb map design. Everyone loves it! Even after completing it recently I'm already looking forward to playing it again. I've never played another Wad this gorgeous with so many ways to play it. Every playthrough feels like a new experience and that's not because of the extra addons I use each time, but because of the freedom you gave us to often choose our own way and have lots of space to do so. Simply brilliant!
LC #1!!!

Playlist of the entire group co-op playthrough with Brutal DOOM + insane amounts of addons:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0WG6DtyyjBLeX0kBiEa1pag9QyFGXoDW

Lost Civilization (BD) part2.jpg

Lost Civilization (BD) part3.jpg

Lost Civilization (BD) part5.jpg

Lost Civilization (BD) part7.jpg

Lost Civilization (BD) part10.jpg

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@METAL DANNY 420 Thanks for the kind words! Always nice to hear (and see) feedback. I watched ~30 mins the 1st video and looks fun :) I'm very interested how maps 4 & 20 works.

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I'm not lying when I say that LC gave me the best and most memorable gaming experiences in all of 2019 and 2020. So thank you my friend :) Everytime my YT channel "evolved" was somehow connected to a LC playthrough. LC speaks my mind when I think about what I would make if I'd make a Wad. I could go on, but you get how positive I am about it :P
Map 4 is my favorite! That map gave me the best vibes and most completely different experiences. The way you multilayered hid that BFG secret is still mindblowing to me. Showing co-op people where the key for it is is like an adventure on it's own already xD
Map 20 feels like an entire movie every time I play it. It's one hell of an experience with a final battle that cannot be forgotten. 
I don't know why, but LC gives me the same kind of joy I get from playing my beloved Halo 2 campaign. The soothing areas with vicious combat. I love it.

All in all you have an amazing mapping mind and I salute you!

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@METAL DANNY 420 Sorry for late reply. Your feedback really warms my heart! Very nice to hear such praise. Watched your gameplay videos to part 6 and will continue on.

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