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Alfonzo

The DWIronman League dies to: Base Ganymede

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E2 secret map doesn't unless you finish whole E2. Weird but understandable. 

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58 minutes ago, NaZa said:

E2 secret map doesn't unless you finish whole E2. Weird but understandable. 

 

I disagree that the secret map shouldn't count unless you finish the whole episode. It's another map that you completed, so you should be able to add it to your total.

 

Using E2 as an example, if you die on E2M8 without having found E2M9, then you have 7 maps completed. If you die on E2M8 having completed E2M9, then you have 8 maps completed. That makes sense to me, especially since we're counting total maps finished. I could understand such an argument if the entrance to the secret level was right at the beginning of E2M5, thus allowing you to skip the map and get an easy extra map finished, but I don't think that's generally (if ever) the case.

 

Think about it, if you only count secret levels if you complete the episode it's in, you end up with these sort of scenarios:

Person A: Died in E1M6 without secret level, died in E2M7 without secret level, died in E3M8 without secret level (18 levels)

Person B: Died in E1M6 with secret level, died in E2M7 with secret level, died in E3M8 with secret level (18 levels)

 

I would argue that Person B was more successful because they completed more of the game than person A, but it wouldn't show in the standings. Depending on time (which I think ends up being the tiebreaker here), Person B might even be ranked lower.

 

It's ultimately Alfonzo's call. If he only wants to count secret levels if you finish the episode, so be it. I just think it's nonsensical since we're counting total levels completed.

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I do see Alfonzo's logic, though - secret maps were always a sign of risk and a possible final gambit to get you a better placement on the board. If you look at Crusades and Mapgame a while back, some runners died on the secret maps because they wanted a better ranking in the end for if they survive.

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Yeah fair enough, don't usually bother with them as I often either can't find them or don't expect to survive.  In other news, I've just streamed my e3 run, but there's been some kind of connection problem at some point, and the stream has split into 3 separate streams with a very small amount of footage not shown, would this still qualify?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Pegleg said:

[...] we're counting total levels completed.

 

The ranking is derived from the rule set, meaning that we're not simply counting total levels completed. It's why the traditional DWIL setup reads as MAPXX on the leader board instead of what you see here (nothing would look more objectionable than placing a player who dies on MAP17 lower than one who completes two secret levels but dies on MAP16). It's a conveyance issue, in part, I'd agree.

 

NaZa has it right in that I want the secret levels to be a risk. Weighing a half-megaWAD of potential loss instead against a question of survival that lasts only as long as one or two levels — and is dependent on their being more difficult — I find that one is more interesting than the other. One is also more forgiving to a player who is committed to going in blind, as he no longer feels compelled to search for something that the league deems more-or-less essential, and perhaps, also, just to avoid immediately losing out to people who know where the secret level is and how to survive it.

Edited by Alfonzo : Clarification

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Posted (edited)
On 4/2/2019 at 5:44 PM, Vyre said:

I only read Seed's comment about using -longtics after I'd finished recording - I tested it out and it was quite the improvement. Maybe next time.

 

All vanilla-compatible demos are short-ticked.

 

On 4/9/2019 at 2:57 AM, Bdubzzz said:

Category 1, Survived all the episodes...

 

H O W

 

Oh my Doge, why had I only tried Category 3 once. Now I can't get myself back to sweet blonde blind runs with beautiful early deaths. Did anyone managed to escape from "prepared" pit? Feel like've lost virginity.

 

The results are:

  • E1 -- survived 8 maps in 1:07:54. Simply hadn't found that "Switch please" to open a secret exit;
  • E2 -- survived 9 maps in 1:03:23;
  • E3 -- survived 9 maps in 1:01:41.

26 maps with 3:12:58, I suppose.

 

Aside from (not) jokes about Cat. 3 as a "Point of No Return", there are 2 major reasons for it (ironically, these are two maps that follow WAD's death exits):

  • E1M8 -- pure suicide RNG at the very end of episode, unless you're @kmc and can avoid bars raising. Just one little Master's hit when you're walking over a thin ledge and you're already posting "E1 -- died at map 8 :C" here;
  • E2M4 -- pure suicide RNG at the stairs to Cybie, in the middle of episode. Ton of melee combat with Imps as a "bonus". I'd rather punch a hundred of Revenants than a pack of this impredictable brown fuckers. And assume (G)ZDoom players have an (unfair?) advantage here.

I also have to prepare E2M1 as fuck like chicken because of route selection and massive (s)hitscanfest prior to obtaining any armor. The rest was relatively peaceful (E2 is the sickiest) and half of maps done without any looking at.

 

dwibaseg.zip

 

Vids:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited by Vince Vega

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I've dabbled in prepared attempts but usually don't bother to take the time unless the pick feels tame enough for someone of my limited skills to survive.

 

Here's my entry.  Blind type 1.

 

E1: Finished M5 then decided I needed sleep so plopped a save after killing the first few enemies in M6 with the intention to resume the recording later.  PrBoom+ said nope so the run ends there.  Found secret level by accident and thought I'd die there (and indeed spend nearly the entire map in the red).  M5 had me cheat death a number of times with panicked plasma spray at the spiderdemon actually working out and escaping alive from that trap near the exit.  Cyber wasn't a problem as I lured it into killing the cacodemons before taking it out.

 

E2: Died on M3.  Just worn down over the course of the level.  Forgot about spectre from way earlier yapping at barons on an elevation (again) but it was shotgunners behind the red door that dealt the finishing blow.  I had all the keys dammit.

 

E3: Died less than 2 minutes into M1.  Totally misplayed the situation.  Almost didn't bother to include the demo though maybe someone will get some entertainment from the level of fail on display here.

 

PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4 -complevel 3

dwironman_bgcomp_cnr.zip

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E3 blind run, dead on 08 (can't remember if I did the secret or not)

 

The run has been fragmented into three sections, 

 

 

 

 

The run was done in one session, but I think I had some connection issue at some point that broke the stream.  Let me know if this is not ok, then I will have time to do a cat 3 run, and tell everyone to get off the wifi

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Here is my submission for DWIL this month.

 

pegleg_dwi_bgce123.zip

 

Category 3.

 

E1: Dead on E1M3, 30/235 kills.

E2: Dead on E2M1, 41/84 kills.

E3: Dead on E3M1, 24/151 kills.

 

I UV-Maxed E1M1 and E1M2! True, many here will not view that as a huge accomplishment and yes, I completed those maps in just under 9 minutes and just over 12 minutes, respectively, and sure, those times are a bit off the normal pace for such things. However, I don't typically max maps on any difficulty, let alone on UV, so I'm quite happy with that performance! E1M3 was blind, so when I started E1M3 and saw 235 kills, I chuckled to myself and figured that would be the place where my run ended. And I was right. Oh well, at least I was facing the sergeant that got me and actually got a shot off instead of getting shot in the back.

 

I didn't make it as far on my actual run of E2M1 as I had during preceding run-throughs, but, as SteveD will often say, that sometimes happens.

 

Nice start to E3M1. I thought I was doing decently well, although low on health. And I was, despite the low health, until I got bit in the back.

 

Base Ganymede is a great mapset. I would go out on a limb and say that, in what I played, these maps showcase a textbook way to set up hitscanners and other lower-tier enemies to be threatening, and not just through the use of overwhelming numbers. I also thought the maps looked great and had a nice cohesion to them. Additionally, the maps are rather open, and allow you to go in different directions. You always end up back at the same place, but you can choose (to a degree) the route by which you get there. That affords you the opportunity to develop a strategy. There are also places that let you take a cautious approach (some might call it camping) or go in guns blazing. I noticed, to my eye at least, that as the episodes progressed, the number of maps to let you get your feet under you dropped. Episode 1, you had E1M1 and E1M2 before Khorus turned up the heat in the third map. For Episode 2, you had E2M1 before the heat started. In Episode 3, you're out of the frying pan from the beginning. I definitely enjoyed what I played.

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fuck sake......died in E1M8, even that I practiced a bit.

I forgot how to progress into the damn map...oh well. I'll play the episode 2 tomorrow.

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Great wad. My runs were category 1.

 

E1 (died E1M6) Shotgunned to smithereens

Spoiler

 

 

E2 (died E2M3) Lol crushed

Spoiler

 

 

E3 (died E3M3) bleh, noobed out

Spoiler

 

 

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I will not participe this month. I'm too lazy and busy to make a run. I already played the first episode a long time ago , it was good.

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Posted (edited)

Oi. I tried to record the demo for GLBoom+ with this command line:

 

Quote

-file BGComp.wad -complevel 3 -episode 1 -skill 4 -record dwim_bgld85

But the demo wasn't created for some reason (this is the same one gameplay that I did and died in M8 comments ago). Question is, what did I do wrong?

Because if I do a second gameplay of episode 1, my blind gameplay will be trash now.

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Cat 1, demos also attached. Pretty rubbish all around... this set seemed to encourage meticulous play and that doesn't quite gel with my impatient streak :P

 

 

ScottyBG.zip

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Category 2, I played it when it was released.

 

E1 - 37:55

E2 - 45:04

E3 - 42:33

 

DWIronman_bgcomp_BlooditeKrypto.zip

 

E3 was exciting with some unnecessary daredevilry :)

 

 

6 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

Oi. I tried to record the demo for GLBoom+ with this command line

 

I've never heard of using -episode that doesn't look right. I used -warp 1 1 and specified the iwad as doom.

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9 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

Question is, what did I do wrong?

 

3 hours ago, Bloodite Krypto said:

I've never heard of using -episode that doesn't look right. I used -warp 1 1 and specified the iwad as doom.

 

I don't remember where I came across this command but it continues to work for me (changing the <n> respectively changes the M1), and documentation of older versions of Boom mention it. At least, I haven't found anything saying that it has since been deprecated. Perhaps it's my front-end (ZDL) compensating? I know @Marcaek had been having trouble warping to Doom levels using conventional syntax, but I didn't ask whether he was using a batch file or whatever else when making the -episode suggestion.

 

If we can prove that I've mucked it up somewhere then you can have another crack at the run, leo, in your own time.

 

For an MC of a competition using demo submissions, I sure do find myself in the dark a lot.

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Posted (edited)

Alright, it's about time someone starts to question your ironmans @Bloodite Krypto

 

I remember your first ironman, a survival of Khorus' Speedy Shit, it's been a while since I played it and while it was not too terribly difficult (I played it casually after I died on map 05) there were a couple of places that I could easily see being dangerous for just about anyone depending on what kind of luck you get. I was really impressed by someone managing to survive that by only having played it once. Then you somehow managed to survive 2 more ironmans, one being perdgate which I was quite familiar with myself. I was on about the same pace as you when I died to getting blocked off by some hanging corpse decoration and a couple of barons standing in the way of a megasphere... I probably would have got to it if I didn't take 2 ridiculous damage rolls iirc. So I was a bit unlucky, it happens, it actually happens quite often in doom. Except it never seem to happen to you.

 

When you survived your 3rd ironman in a row I was 99% convinced you were cheating somehow, because it's incredibly hard to imagine someone going through 3 wads in a row without being very familiar with them and not getting fucked over once. I've died on map 08 of doom 2 (tricks and traps) because I got an elastic collision with the exit door and got pushed into the inescapable pit once during my speedrun attempts, it's simply not possible to predict a lot of the things doom will throw at you.

 

Your ironman history is either survival or going the furthest in 28 out of 30 months, oscillation you were only beaten by ancalagon and rush you were only beaten by wh-wilou84 who played on HMP to finish the last level(s). Basically you never got unlucky enough to die during the early or mid parts, not once 30 times in a row.

 

I will admit I have barely watched a fraction of your ironman demos, so I was expecting to watch a literal god playing the game when I first decided to have a look. In coffee break episode 1, a blind playthrough as you claim (it obviously isn't), you took 2 demon bites + 3 rev rockets on map 01 that could have done up to 320 damage when you were are at less than 139 effective health.  Sure, I'm not saying there's any RNG manipulation here, this probably happened, but how often does something like that occur and you get away with it? I watched some random points in your sd20x6 demo, you somehow managed to rocket yourself in the face twice in the few minutes I watched. One fight in sd20x6 map 02 is blatant use of slow motion (16 minutes in). In endgame you got lucky squeezing past some mancubus after completely misjudging his distance from the door. For osiris you claimed you played "completely blind" despite knowing exactly where to go on map 01, suggesting you probably died early and started over. Again I have barely watched anything of your ironmans, but there is nothing to suggest you are significantly better than any other top doom player. I do know that you are a very good doom player, I have no doubts about that, and you would most definitely agree that you have had a lot of luck during these ironmans. However, in my opinion all the unlucky moments have been replaced by starting over or using re-recording, and in the case of sd20x6, reducing the game speed.

 

My questions are:
How far did you actually get for all the ironmans?
Have you been cheating in your demos on DSDA?
Did you never stop to think that perhaps it's getting a bit too obvious that you are cheating?

 

I'd also ask you why, but I'm going to assume you just wanted to maintain some sort of image of being really good and you didn't want to embarrass yourself with early deaths. I feel a bit bad coming with these accusations, because I honestly don't care that much, but with sd20x6 it just got to that point that even you have to be laughing at how ridiculous it's gotten. We've both played this game long enough to know that the luck required for something like this would be much lower than one in a million.

 

My suggestion would be to come clean and just start doing it legitimate from now on. If you're going to claim you haven't cheated then I suggest that you perhaps start streaming.

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@AlfonzoLet's see if I can still have the time to do it because I work and I'll literally have around 3 hours to do it, which I know that I can't do it in that time. And also, tomorrow is festive day due of the worker's day. That's where I'd like to finish both episodes 2 and 3...

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@leodoom85 You're welcome to record another run, but I'll only accept it once I've confirmed it's not a user end mistake (i.e. that -episode is actually a bunk parameter).

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34 minutes ago, Alfonzo said:

@leodoom85 You're welcome to record another run, but I'll only accept it once I've confirmed it's not a user end mistake (i.e. that -episode is actually a bunk parameter).

I can assure you that it's not an user issue because I copypasted what was posted in the OP with the command line. I'll try the -warp 1 1 command, stay in game for 5 seconds and see if it was created correctly. THEN, I'll do the gameplay as usual but this time, it'll be category 3, not blind anymore but I'll clarify that thing when I post the results.

Anyway, I'm off to work...

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Posted (edited)

Okay, so with ZeroMaster having loosed his suspicions, I should lay a few things on the table. In the interest of transparency.

 

I was contacted by one member of a group of speedrunners that included ZeroMaster. He had been picking apart some of Bloodite's most recent runs, and, along with a few others, wanted me to weigh in on what he strongly believed was dishonest practice. I know next to nothing about TAS or the inner workings of .lmps and defer entirely to the experts when trying to determine whether someone has doctored a demo, so this was more of a courtesy than anything — deciding whether or not to go public with this information. ZeroMaster is an expert, so I take these concerns pretty seriously.

 

DWIL is deliberately not as stringent a competition as it could be, but it's still a sufficiently competitive space that highly skilled players like Bloodite, Veinen or Wilou can step into it to put on a show. That means, I think, that the conduct of those sorts of players here is of interest to other speedrunners who may not themselves be interested in DWIL, but who are nonetheless part of the same small subset of the community that values integrity very highly. In other words, this is equally their ballpark and I don't feel that I can or should stand in the way of speedrunners bringing near-watertight evidence to bear against someone.

 

What I do feel I should say however is that Bloodite should be given every chance to void these accusations, or find ways to reinforce credibility. Streaming is a good idea. I also welcome suggestions to changes in the format that might introduce some added measure of legitimacy, while also making things more fun for the everyday Ironman. Let that be the main discussion point to come of all this, if we can, please.

 

*Bangs gavel cookie tin*

Edited by Alfonzo : Clarification

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Posted (edited)

Yea, streaming is a good way to prove a legit run. Even doing videos on YT can be altered by doing a better run.

 

Edit: I said that I won't do streams, not that I can't do it because of my specs and yes, I can do it but last stream (Fomalhaut) was so unlucky lol...it's like me being cursed or something, so I do blind gameplays in demo form at first try.

Also, I admit that, before doing a legitimate run, I do a really short test if demo works (3 seconds of game). This time, I didn't checked it. So yea...that's the best I can explain in my case.

Edited by leodoom85

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2 hours ago, ZeroMaster010 said:

Your ironman history is either survival or going the furthest in 28 out of 30 months, oscillation you were only beaten by ancalagon and rush you were only beaten by wh-wilou84 who played on HMP to finish the last level(s). Basically you never got unlucky enough to die during the early or mid parts, not once 30 times in a row.

 

My suggestion would be to come clean and just start doing it legitimate from now on. If you're going to claim you haven't cheated then I suggest that you perhaps start streaming.

He was also beaten by: (after looking up the 28 in 30 months part)

  • Dew in BTSXE1
  • Veinen and Demon Of The Well in Vae Victus 1 & 2
  • kmc in DTWID
  • Demon Of The Well in Warlock's Hearth
  • Veinen in The Darkening E1 & E2
  • leodoom85 in Interstellar Sickness & Shaman's Device

Also, @Bloodite Krypto already has a Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/blooditekrypto

 

This is going to be an interesting development in the Ironman League history methinks.

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Streaming would mean nothing unless there's a hand camera, fyi. Anyone can just as easily stream a pre-recorded run.

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Posted (edited)

Could someone smuggle in a pre-recorded run on-stream while also hiding the demo progress bar, if they were made to display it as "on"? I'm assuming you can access and change those display settings without descyncing a demo.

 

EDIT: Duh, no demos needed. It's a stream. Surely this would work.

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