Flash thoughts on Hexen's design

[Jimmy]

Warning!: Surprisingly enough, this is only my opinion. Don't get your serpent staff all up in a twist.

 

HUB 1 - THE SEVEN PORTALS

 

Poor Winnowing Hall tried its best but this is overall an exceptionally weak opener to the sequel to Heretic (see my thoughts on that game). The mechanics of the puzzle in this hub are seriously weak - it's just back-and-forth switch-hunting in no particular order - and a disappointing divergence gameplay-wise after Winnowing Hall tempts you with its hints towards more straightforward gameplay. No keys are collected in this hub, it's just switch after switch after pointless bloody switch. There's a couple of sections in the progression of this hub that have you backtrack to the Portals to hit another puzzle switch only to then immediately have to backtrack to the Guardian of Ice because a door opened there. Just feels like there's just way too many steps and virtually no direction.

 

* Winnowing Hall - I honestly love this map. It oozes atmosphere and doesn't muck around with deadly traps, like the spinning fireball shooters, the closing doors by the emerald key, and the crusher traps in the silver key cave. We're introduced to Hexen's (limited) bestiary and some familiar items quite nicely here. 9/10
* Seven Portals (hub) - It looks the part, at least, but design-wise there's not much to talk about - it's little more than a spoke-hub. For some reason they made it a much longer way to travel to the Guardian of Ice, which you need to do multiple times, putting both the portals behind mandatory jumps, slippery ice, and tall elevators - on both sides of the map. It's honestly such a relief when the big brass doors at the top of the map open up and you can grab the wings and be done with this shit. 2/10
* Guardian of Ice - Very weird opening room with that setup where one of the crushing pillars becomes a teleporter that takes you back to the Portals. An extensive map with lots to explore, but it's pretty dull to look at, with a lot of monotexturing and tight dark hallways. The fire key's location is pretty cool though, I love the melting ice pillar when you use the Flame Mask. 5/10
* Guardian of Fire - Probably the most underutilised map in this hub. The first switch you hit is just given to you in the first room, and for most of the hub you just end up passing through this map to get to crucial locations unlocked on the two other Guardians. The deadly Flame Mask room with the collapsing bridge is a pretty iconic trap and super scary the first time around - perhaps feels a little bit mean for one of the first traps in the game (although I guess Winnowing Hall prepares you for this - and there will be worse to come). Does anyone else think that "spinning cog" exit switch is a really weird addition? 6/10
* Guardian of Steel - Am I trapped in the movie Cube? This is a horrible map, and definitely the one you spend the most time in. The puzzle is super unclear, the fights with the Centaurs in tight corridors are not fun, and those elevators to get to the puzzle switches are so functionally awful I just noclip through them. Also fuck that noisy as hell crusher room. 2/10
* Bright Crucible (secret) - If you jump or use the wings to get to the center of the Steel map, you get to jump into a portcullis on the Portals (?!) and warp here. It's honestly kind of a fun romp, with a lot of treats on offer to the player. Introduces the Icon, and the repulsion disks which are useful as hell, and if you have the wings at this point then you're free to fly around all over the place collecting everything and raining hell on the serpents and ettins below. You also get all four armor types on this map, and get to solve another unique artifact puzzle, which only the Guardian of Fire has featured so far. Additionally it gives us a taste of what Hub 2 has to offer, with the brown Serpents and the Stalker enemies featured here. I wonder whose decision it was to make a blocking wall have a stained-glass window texture, though. 7/10

 

HUB 2 - SHADOW WOOD

 

I really love the themes running through all the locales in this hub - perhaps with the exception of the boss map - as maps set in natural settings always hit me in a special place. It's kind of a pity then that the gameplay is a big glorified switch hunt. You're meant to find three keys across the three main maps, then travel to the two other locations to use them there to solve a six-piece puzzle that unlocks the boss map. Simple enough in theory, but in practice it seems to really outstay its welcome. Kind of counterintuitive that each key is found in the location that bears its name, rather than being ever used in said location (i.e. the cave key is found in the caves, but you then have to go elsewhere to use it - just feels a little backwards).

 

* Shadow Wood (hub) - I really like the look of this map. More "natural" and non-orthogonal architecture here than in Hub 1, which is great, and the texture selection and music go a long way to evoking a sense of place. The layout is also very straightforward, although I always forget where the portal to the Caves is - it's located in the same area as the door to the Hypostyle, which wouldn't be my first choice. 8/10
* Wastelands - This map is a giant sprawling circuit consisting mostly of winding corridors with wooden support details you can easily snag on, so navigating this place is about as painful as it gets. Much of your time spent here will be wandering around like a blind fool until you happen upon the secret wall or trigger line that unlocks a crucial point of progression. The trigger to unlock the swamp door here is about as arbitrary as it gets, and the horn key is sequestered behind a pretty innocuous wall. Ew. 2/10
* Darkmere - Probably my favorite locale in the game, theme-wise it's just brimming with atmosphere. Very ugly area to the south behind the horn door, otherwise this map is a visual treat, if a little difficult to navigate - two of the fireplaces down in the castle's banquet hall hold crucial points of progression, with a switch, and a secret door leading to the trap section where you get the swamp key, which is a pretty cruel setup for first-timers. 7/10
* Caves of Circe - Big blobby rooms that are impossible to distinguish from one another. Not much love went into crafting this. 3/10
* Hypostyle (boss) - Kind of disappointing. Essentially four "puzzle" rooms bolted together - all of which merely involve killing like 75% of the enemies and then running out again. Each room awkwardly thrusts the player inwards so the door can lock behind them, and I always get thrust into the lava in the fourth room. Which leads me onto another point: why was a linear path chosen here? Making the rooms completable in any order would help out immensely! Not to mention allowing the player to retreat should they need to. The Wyvern fight is underwhelming. Grab the wings of wrath, then take flight, and he becomes a cinch, even with the Fighter's limited arsenal. Also very awkward place for an exit portal. 5/10
* Sacred Grove (secret) - So let me get this straight. This is a circle, with a single switch that opens up a door on HUB FOUR? Jesus. Some secret. I didn't even know more stuff started spawning if you weren't quick enough killing the twelve ettins until I checked the Wiki page. 1/10

 

HUB 3 - HERESIARCH'S SEMINARY

 

Aka the "yellow brick" episode. Split into two separate puzzles, one with the planet gems and one with the nine-way switch hunt between three chapels, this hub has the tendency to drag on and on, not to mention the boss fight with Mr I Can Make Myself Invulnerable. While the former half of this hub is fairly straightforward, the latter half seems to artificially lengthen the play time by barring off certain ways in the chapel maps for no good reason until you find the first few switches elsewhere. Openness doesn't hurt! Just let the player find all three switches in each map right away!

 

* Heresiarch's Seminary (hub) - Again, a hub that does a pretty good job of conveying a place, this being a decrepit, corrupt monastery. The reveal with the torches when you first enter it is pretty cool. I don't know why the Refectory's portal is at the bottom of a hugely long lift shaft. 6/10
* Silent Refectory - Crate maze. Virtually monotextured. Does have some interesting (if crazy out-of-the-blue) doors that slide back or rotate when moved against. Otherwise Yawnsville. Pick up the three planets and don't bother coming back. 2/10
* Orchard of Lamentations - Short - a mere two puzzle items to collect before leaving for good. You need to be wary and fast around the huge elevator room that can kill you instantly, and make sure to hit that switch in the middle of it that is crucial to progression but looks identical to the others. Yep. While mercifully short compared to Refectory, isn't signposted particularly well. The silent teleporter pathways to the Sapphire Planet look hilariously broken because said pathways contain monsters that suddenly appear in front of you! 4/10
* Dragon Chapel - Essentially one large and very detailed room chock-full of enemies. Has some oddities like the shoot-activated slime lift (?!) and the various lifts that aren't textured like lifts, so you have to be very wary of texture differences in order to navigate to the three essential switches. Gameplay is pretty chaotic, lots of carnage and turret monsters, and you're given oodles of mana here. 6/10
* Griffin Chapel - This map has some weirdness to it. The outside room to the southwest solves a piece of the puzzle just by you walking into it (would a switch not have done here?!), and has a stained-glass window that if broken unlocks a secret porkalator. The magic bridge that only appears if you blindly wander into the abyss is awkward as well. The main gimmick in this map is the room full of shifting walls that can crush you, but you can softlock the game if you find the concealed switch to open the teleporter room and hit it before the big crushing ceiling at the end of the hall has risen fully. Otherwise inoffensive. 5/10
* Wolf Chapel - Slaughtaurs out the ass Jesus Christ. A lot of this map is just tight corridors and dark rooms and really isn't much to look at. Take a torch with you. Another weird moment where in order to solve a piece of the puzzle, you have to jump to two platforms and the puzzle just solves itself. Again, a switch would've been... fine? 4/10
* Deathwind Chapel (secret) - This is supposed to be a secret map? The spinning blade pillar room is... interesting, I guess. 3/10

 

HUB 4 - CASTLE OF GRIEF

 

The hub with the least hub-like structure to it. The Castle has a self-contained puzzle all of its own with the clock gears, and only two portals leading to elsewhere in the hub. It's therefore the least straightforward, both in theory and in practice. Lots of running around in dark, tight places looking for artifacts to use elsewhere and not even any guidance from the "one xth of the puzzle" messages. You just have to look for the crucial items, then the places to use them. It's got some good setpieces, though, and every map "feels" like a believable locale.

 

* Castle of Grief (hub) - Certainly looks the part, probably has the best opening façade of any of the hub maps. Gameplay-wise though it's kinda rubbish. On the upper levels, you have to clear the same room five times over. On the ground level you scurry around for a dozen or so switches to open up compartments in the other towers that give you access to the clock gears, which unlocks the Gibbet. We also see that "spinning cog" exit switch make a return, which takes you to the Gibbet. Still not used to that thing. I dig the music, though. 6/10
* Forsaken Outpost - Forgettable. Has some awkward platforming in the outside areas. The Rusted key is placed weirdly and you can miss it VERY easily. Just pick up the books and get outta here. 4/10
* Dungeons - Cramped and not a lot of fun. Lots to kill though. Perhaps too much - the ettins don't stop spawning. Music's good, though. Has a pitfall that leads to the next crucial part of Effluvium, which is frankly awful. When I hear that falling scream, I just reload my game. How am I to know it's an exit?? 5/10
* Effluvium - Tight and dark corridors filled with sewage and those slow lifts in the vats to the north-west just suck. I hate where the Dungeon key is placed, you can barely see it. 4/10
* Gibbet - Looks cool. It's designed like a big castle/torture chamber clearly fit for a demented king. Kind of infuriating though. They really should've placed the KORAX bookshelf in a better-lit place. Festooned with fairly annoying instant-death traps and pitfalls (one of which you have to trigger in order to progress!) and is functionally broken at its most crucial point - the boss fight. You get locked in the throne room and are given no ammunition here, so you have to fight the Heresiarch with what you take in. The pre-final fight's script terminates too early and softlocks the game if you're too hasty killing those Chaos Serpents (and I mean "don't-wait-10-seconds-before-killing-the-next-one" kind of hasty). At this point the player definitely has weapon 4 so this is a CATASTROPHIC oversight. Why was the Heresiarch used again here, anyway? Just do what Hub 1 did and forego the boss entirely! Anything but having to fight him again. 0/10 - it's broke.
* Desolate Garden (secret) - You pretty much find this one by accident, as long as you beat both the Bright Crucible and Grove maps prior. For all the preparation it takes to reach this place, it's really not much of a thing at all. You hit some switches, spawn some monsters, then head around the outer perimeter and pick up some weapons. There's nothing going on here of note, perhaps apart from the room with the perilous rising sewage that can crush you. 3/10

 

HUB 5 - NECROPOLIS

 

While short and straightforward, easily the worst hub in the set, on account of fantastically lazy level design. Feels like it was tacked on at the end of the game's development after the Raven guys realised they could make boss enemies using the player sprites that would otherwise only ever be seen in co-op. Here you go toe-to-toe with your corrupted masters, who each wield their ultimate weapons, but the irony is that possessing those ultimate weapons yourself makes these bosses an absolute piss. The maps themselves are tiny but lay the monster hordes on so thick that you have to cleave through walls of meat to get anywhere.

 

* Necropolis (hub) - Hey who likes Reivers we got Reivers here come get yer Reivers. This being the only map in which these enemies are used, coupled with how functionally dull they are, is honestly kind of hilarious to me. They're peppered all throughout (nearly as much as there are mana pickups, flasks and disks) and honestly are just a nuisance, particularly with how they refuse to stop spawning. The "choose your fate" switch "puzzle" in front of Menelkir's tomb's entrance is kind of annoying, and the elevator to Traductus's tomb is comically slow. It's also just kind of a pain moving about here, by virtue of there being trees and gravestones every two feet. 3/10
* Vivarium (secret) - So in order to even reach this map at all, you're supposed to find it in the hub before even approaching any of the other tombs? Uh, that's nice. Anyway, this map is hilarious: it's a big silly rectangle full of baddies and that's about it. (If you're the Mage you get to see Wendigos for the first time in four episodes!) More outright weird progression, like the stained-glass windows you have to push against to rotate (remember Refectory) and how you have to shoot the northern wall to make it come down like a lift. (?!?) There's also a tunnel you can go into only if you can turn yourself into a pig, which is amazing. It leads into a hideous giant room full of every item in the game that feels like a testbed for the items more than anything! The door to get out of this secret is a gigantic fucking swing door wall that's like 1000+ units long, it's ridiculous, I love it. 7/10
* Zedek's Tomb - Almost nothing can save a map that consists entirely of corridors populated with Slaughtaurs - not even a patronisingly simple shape-matching memory puzzle. (This is one of the final levels in the game, come on! At least functionally it's pretty cool. I kinda like how the polyobject cubes jut out of their slots as they rotate.) 2/10
* Traductus's Tomb - This one is basically a single corridor full of bishops. Not even any puzzles to solve here. The fight isn't even in an arena, moreso a tiny claustrophobic room where Traductus poses almost no threat to you. There also doesn't seem to be any mana on this map, which feels like a huge oversight given it's a boss fight and nothing more. 1/10
* Menelkir's Tomb - Thank god this isn't just a corridor. Instead it is a series of puzzle rooms that has you finding switches that match the geometry of each room. This is kind of neat and hasn't been done before, but I wish there was more going on. Again it's stuffed to the brim with monsters (although this time they're not all just one type) and offers you very little mana. Still not all that impressive. 3/10
* Dark Crucible (boss) - The epic conclusion. A timeless façade with that wiggling bridge. Inverse to the three preceding levels, you get more mana here than you could ever possibly need in order to deal with Korax, with six Kraters of Might being given. Korax is therefore the easiest boss in the game by a country mile. For all the script-based showiness his attacks have, he has a low pain tolerance and goes down with half a dozen shots from your ultimate weapon. A huge missed opportunity. 4/10

 

Closing thoughts:

 

* Hub 1 is a disappointing and confusing switch hunt of a hub and could've been made nicer with more key- or puzzle item-based progression... or just fewer steps in general.
* Hub 2 is probably the strongest on offer, with key-based progression. The maps just didn't need to be quite so sprawling and multicursal - finding where to go is a long slog even if you know where to go.
* Hub 3 really outstays its welcome, being divided in two parts, with an (admittedly cool) item-based puzzle in its first half, and having lots of switch-hunting in its latter half. It should've just tried to be one thing and maybe not had a bullshit boss who can make himself invulnerable.
* Hub 4 is almost not a hub, having two maps (the Castle and the Gibbet) with multiple portals leading elsewhere, and is overall fairly confusing and grindy, with its corridor-crawly levels. It uses puzzle items effectively, though. Pity it's BROKEN!
* Hub 5 is weaksauce. Rough and cramped tiny levels, lazily constructed, absolutely no interconnectivity with the hub.
* None of the secret levels are really worth going to except Hub 1's.

 

The gameplay of Hexen, particularly with regards to combat, is slow and clunky compared to Heretic. Everything feels overspecialised - some enemy types are only used in a couple of levels (Wendigos and Reivers). You're only given four distinct weapons in the game, with a pitiful two ammo types to swap between. Monsters are seemingly all low-mid-tier. There's no "fodder" enemies aside from perhaps the Afrit, and the strongest non-boss enemy you encounter is of all things the Slaughtaur, which matches with the Chaos Serpent in terms of HP but is obviously harder to kill. There is therefore absolutely minimal rise and fall in terms of combat intensity. It gets dull really fast. Where are the iron liches? The (unfriendly) maulotaurs? The boss monsters are all just pretty weird and purely in their own ballpark. The Wyvern doesn't even move the same way as any other monster.

 

Balance-wise I have to say it's all over the shop, especially taking into account the different classes. The game does not seem to play kindly for the Cleric or Mage, with enemies like the Centaurs/Slaughtaurs (probably the most plentiful enemy in the later hubs) being the main obstacle for these classes. The Fighter can use all of his weapons even with no mana (consider the shitty weaponry the Cleric or Mage have to fall back to if they run out of mana), so there's really no contest to be had here - if you don't want to have a rough as hell time and instead just want to knock the seven bells of hell out of monsters, play Fighter. You can also horde Kraters of Might until the very end of the game and have more mana reserves than you could possibly know what to do with.

 

Knowing where to go is sadly a good 3/4ths of the battle when it comes to enjoying Hexen. You've almost gotta be in the level designer's head because it's all so grossly inconsistent.
- Crucial triggers are sometimes placed in purely arbitrary spots (hub 1, 2, 3)
- Exits are placed in highly strange places and are not the iconic red portal every time (hub 1 & 4)
- Multiple-step puzzles are not solved through consistent means (hub 3)
- Sometimes newly-opened portals will lead you to a place you don't need to be (hub 2)
- Some doors aren't "doors" in the conventional sense, instead requiring shooting, pushing or nudging one side to rotate open (hub 3, hub 4, hub 5) - this even applies to lifts!

 

There are many many flaws to this game, that lead me to believe that while the hub system itself is kind of neat, it simply needed better maps with tighter puzzle design and a richer roster of content, which I guess when translated just means "it should've been a better game". Maybe it should've just been an expansion pack to Heretic? More weapons (as in keeping the basic functionality of the Heretic arsenal!) and more enemy types, some of which being weaker or stronger than others, would've been just swell.

 

Overall, 4/10.

 

Lots of disappointment to be had here. When you're not confused or getting bored witless by the combat, this game is kinda fun. I want to like it a lot, but I can only keep the nostalgia goggles on for so long.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Jimmy

[ReaperAA]

I sometimes wish Raven had made a Doom2-equivalent sequel for Heretic (adding new weapons and enemies to fix gameplay issues) rather than making Hexen. On one hand, Hexen was more innovative than Heretic but on the other hand, it feels extremely rushed (even compared to Heretic).

 

However, despite this, I don't say that Hexen is a bad game. I actually kinda enjoy it for what it is. But at the same time, I think Hexen could have been better of by being more like Doom/Heretic, especially in the level designs and combat.

 

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

The gameplay of Hexen, particularly with regards to combat, is slow and clunky compared to Heretic. Everything feels overspecialised 

 

100% Agreed. I actually think that Hexen's bestiary is atleast on par with Heretic's. But its is underutilized in Hexen. Wendigos are almost never used after Hub 1. Dark Bishop are only encountered from Hub 3 onwards. Reivers are only used in Hub 5. Stalkers are swamps only enemy. Death Wyvern is only encountered once.

 

Bosses are also dissapointing. Heresiarchs are annoying because of their shields. And Korax is a joke. D'Sparil shits all over him. Korax has a extremely high pain chance. So much that I once remember stunlocking him with Mage's starting weapon (pew pew gun) and managed to kill him before Korax could retreat to the second room and hence me getting stuck in the first room.

 

And its a shame. Heretic's combat feels weaker than doom to me. But compared to Hexen, even Heretic's combat feels rock solid.

 

[seed]

1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

I sometimes wish Raven had made a Doom2-equivalent sequel for Heretic (adding new weapons and enemies to fix gameplay issues) rather than making Hexen. On one hand, Hexen was more innovative than Heretic but on the other hand, it feels extremely rushed (even compared to Heretic).

 

I'm kind of the other way around. The main problem I had with Heretic was just how much it felt like a Doom clone to me instead of being its own thing, so much that I dropped the game halfway through, I couldn't get much out from it.

 

Then I jumped to Hexen and well, I didn't finish it either, dropping it somewhere after the swamp portion. But from what I played until that point, the annoying clone vibe Heretic gave me was completely absent. It had charm, focus, and the changes made to the gameplay and mechanics were more than welcome, giving it an actual identity as opposed to trying to be a Doom reskin with a medieval setting (didn't seemed rushed either). Then again, I don't (and can't) have a complete opinion on the game since I never finished it, but I'm planning on doing just that soon (once a new version of GZDoom comes out... ). After being pleasantly surprised with just how patient I was with a puzzle-oriented Doom megawad recently, I think I'm ready for Hexen. The first time I got so tired of its progression since I had no idea what to expect that I simply gave up, this time I won't.

 

I'm actually really looking forward to playing Hexen and finishing it this time. Perhaps I'm going to give Heretic a second try after that too.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Do yourself a favor and do hexen on difficulty 1 or 2. There is absolutely no challenge in the game at any difficulty and all you'll be getting in skill 4 and 5 are more annoying monsters to grind down. The players are supremely overpowered and no monster stands a chance since everything that might look deadly actually deals almost no damage (bishops hitting for 1 damage, heresiarch dealing almost none because players have 75% aoe resist). 

 

There are are enough Kraters of might to never run out of ammo unless you hoard them for the dangerous fights that are never going to come. enough quartz flasks to shrug everything and enough discs of repulsion to kill everything. Heretic on the other hand feels much better on skill 5 (Which is basically the same difficulty as doom 2 on UV, aside from E3M1 which is going to be harder than E4M1 this time around)

 

P.S. Centaurs are way less annoying if you use flechettes to kill them whenever they start blocking, well not as cleric because that's even more annoying than killing them with the shitty mace.

[whirledtsar]

4 hours ago, Jimmy said:

The gameplay of Hexen, particularly with regards to combat, is slow and clunky compared to Heretic. Everything feels overspecialised - some enemy types are only used in a couple of levels (Wendigos and Reivers). You're only given four distinct weapons in the game, with a pitiful two ammo types to swap between. Monsters are seemingly all low-mid-tier. There's no "fodder" enemies aside from perhaps the Afrit, and the strongest non-boss enemy you encounter is of all things the Slaughtaur, which matches with the Chaos Serpent in terms of HP but is obviously harder to kill. There is therefore absolutely minimal rise and fall in terms of combat intensity. It gets dull really fast. Where are the iron liches? The (unfriendly) maulotaurs? The boss monsters are all just pretty weird and purely in their own ballpark. The Wyvern doesn't even move the same way as any other monster.

 I disagree with this. Heretic's weapons largely feel underpowered & unsatisfying compared to Hexen's (at least the fighter's armory). Eg. it takes forever to kill a Disciple with your crossbow (or most other weapons), but it takes just one hammer to kill a Bishop. And of course the wand is absolute shit compared to the fists.

 

I think it's good that the bosses are "weird", it makes them more memorable than a "shoot at it until it dies" type boss. The gimmick of the Wyvern is that you have to grab the wings to be able to fight it properly.

[SOSU]

No Deathkings review :'(

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Here's a brief review of each map/hub/whateves for heXen:

 

Winnowing Hall:

 *WINNOWR Intensifies* 10/10

 

Seven Portals:

 

HUB - The hub itself is fairly easy to navigate, not overly harsh and in general is a pleasant map to run around in and have fun. No real complaints here. 9/10

 

GUARDIAN OF ICE - *Insert me dying to Wendigo's* 5/10

 

GUARDIAN OF FIRE - Surprisingly simple and again, not too challenging. A good little opener to introduce jumping puzzles. 6/10

 

GUARDIAN OF STEEL - It took me YEARS to understand how this thing worked. Seriously, this is one of the WORST designed puzzles... and it's only in hub one! Hoo boy! 2/10

 

BRIGHT CRUCIBLE - Painful, confusing, hard. Definitely one of the worst desgined heXen maps. 1/10

 

Shadow Wood:

 

HUB - Ehh. Kinda confusing, not the most visually pleasing but not exactly awful. Ca't praise it nor hate it. 5/10

 

WASTELANDS - Long arse tunnels, very little visual cues on where to go, lots of serpents, and to top it all off you come here quite often. Whilst I do like the design of the tunnels, they get VERY repetitive. 4/10

 

DARKMERE - The main part of this map is just swamp which, whilst nice, introduces the swamp enemy thing which is kind a pain in the bum to kill. Again, nothing to hate here but I DO love the fog. Also that castle bit later on is quite good. 7/10

 

CAVES OF CIRCE - To be honest, this map really isn't all to bad. Apart from the platinum helmet trap at the end (which I have NO idea how you're meant to grab it without dying) I personally don't mind this map. Sure it's a little hard to navigate but it's quite fun. 6/10

 

HYPOSTLE - A series of puzzles. None of them are even hard, msot require you to simply slaughter all the enemies in a room and then oh hey look, a switch. Not really hard... with the exception of puzzle 3. Tight room with multiple centaurs and crushers. JOY. 3/10

 

SACRED GROVE - So let me get this straight, you just kill 8 ettins? All right! *kills them all* *floor lowers to a switch* *presses switch* "a door opened on the Forsaken Outpost". Ya foken wot m8. Yer 'Avin a laff? - 1/10. Would've been 0 if it weren't for the free mystic urns.

 

Heresiarch's Seminary:

 

HUB - A nice attempt at a castle-y sort of map that trips and falls over onto it's own face. If you thought guardian of steel was confusing, this hub gives almost NO visual cue what-so ever! Seriously, I get twisted, turned and lost here far too often, even WITH The automap! Not to mention this is when the game starts to spam dark mages everywhere like they're an imp in doom and totally not like a caodemon with the speed of a pinky. 2/10

 

SILENT REFACTORY - So I hEaRd YoU lIkEd DaRk MaGeS!!! Seriously cut down the the dark mage spam broo. Aslo this map BARELY features any unique lighting or really anything dynamic visually, even GZDooM's dynamic lighting effect on projectiles don't add much more to this map. 0/10

 

ORCHARD OF LAMENTATIONS - This map exists I guess. Not super memorable either but visually it's fairly good. 7/10

 

and now a word from our animal sponsors

 

DRAGON CHAPEL - Complex, confusing yet very fun to go through. Definitely a nice breather from the previous maps. 8/10

 

GRIFFIN CHAPEL - This would be fairly mediocre if it wasn't for the crushing walls room. Seriously, that room is a pain in the arse to solve, mostly due to the fact it as hard to tell where the walls would move and when they would move. And you can't just stop and wait for them to go, you will get crushed. 2/10

 

WOLF CHAPEL - A fairly okay map. Fairly grey in it's colour scheme but that's made up for some really nice visuals. My biggest complaint? So I hEaRd YoU lIkEd CeNtAuRs AnD sLaUgHtErErS!!! 5/10

 

DEATHWIND CHAPEL - No idea how you're meant to get to this but honestly, this map is forgetful. That doesn't mean it's bad, it's just forgetful. The map does offer some nice challenges here and there but nothing here stood out. Apart from the spinning pillars. 4/10

 

 Castle of Grief:

 

HUB - This is where heXen takes a high dive from a broken platform into a pit of sewage and used needles. No really, talk about RELENTLESS DIFFICULTY. This hub even of medium is brutally hard. Don't expect this to change also as this contains some of the most CONFUSING puzzles ever! Where chapter 3 was too linear, chapter 4 was too non-linear. No cues at all and barely any hints on where to go. I had to noclip through this map when I did is as all 3 classes just due to the absurd amount of switches and puzzles. This map can die painfully for all I care. 0/10

 

FORSAKEN OUTPOST - Did you know that the rusted key was on this map? Did you know it blends in so well it might as well be called the chameleon key? Outside of that quirk, this map is again bland and boring. (Noticing a pattern here?) But at least this time we gots jumping puzzles! ooooo! pointless!

 

DUNGEONS - Gray. Just gray. every wall is gray, most of the floor is gray, most of the ceiling is gray. Not to mention there's a switch you need to press like 8 times before it stops working. That is just dumb. Another poorly designed map with a horrible exit design. 2/10

 

ELFLUVIUM - Wet, m o i s t, damp and smelly. What a sewage area would be like (obviously). Visually this map is grim but nice. A fairly fun map that isn't too poorly designed but not exactly chart-topping. 7/10

 

GIBBET - Oh god. If you want to know  what poor level design is, look no further than this turd. Where the main HUB area is difficult, this literally is broken. OP mentioned if you kill the chaos serpents too fast, the rest of the script fails. He wasn't joking. This map literally is unplayable if the chaos serpents near the end don't co-operate properly. Outside of that this map is littered with traps that are unfair and a lot of enemy spam. 0/10 Would die again.

 

DESOLATE GARDENS - And the award for the most pointless map goes to... this one I guess... Only good thing is this map has all of the weapons here in one neat package so if you're missing a weapon piece (which would be impressive if you've missed ALL THREE) then this map rewards you all of them. 3/10

 

NECROPOLIS

 

HUB - REIVERS! GET YER REIVERS 'ERE!!!! They suck your health and they go "BLERRRRGH" and they fly... oh yeah and they have no legs *cue x-files theme*

5/10

 

ZEDEK, MELKINIR AND THE OTHER GUY'S TOMBIES - Oh hey look, it's the other classes I didn't choose! And they're all brain-dead easy! (With the exception of Traductus who is just ancerous if you don't have any discs of repulsion or icon of defenders). 1/10

 

DARK CRUICIBLE - Korax the borax. The big grey ghosty thing with 4 arms, 2 legs and no willy. Just weaken him enough so he can teleport, kill the 2 waves of enemies, shove your 4th slot weapon into him and drink a cup of water in celebration of his death. Simple, boring and really easy, Korax is just boring. Though the wibbly-wobbly bridge effect is really interesting (anone know how it's done? I wanna know :3) 3/10

 

Overall I just feel like HeXeN was biased towards the cleric and Mage far more than the fighter.

 

Cleric with the serpent staff's heal drain + quartz flasks + Mystic Urn + The scroll = HP spam

 

Mage's scroll gives him mana and he starts off with a ranged attack as-is so he's somwhat advantaged there as well.

 

All fighter has is his axe of 2-hit wonders.

 

 

My overall score?

 

4/10. Winnowing hall gave it that 1 extra point :)

 

 

 

 

[Dark Pulse]

5 hours ago, seed said:

Then again, I don't (and can't) have a complete opinion on the game since I never finished it, but I'm planning on doing just that soon (once a new version of GZDoom comes out... ).

Well look what happened earlier today!

[SaladBadger]

even though I quite enjoy Hexen, I honestly do feel a lot of Jimmy's gripes here. There's just no denying that the game isn't that interesting when you have basically all your weapons by the third hub or so, and there's only four of them in the first place, and when most of those weapons are pretty lacklustre unless you're the fighter. Heck, even with the fighter, when I was playing co-op with someone a while back, I found I never ran out of mana because even the weak as hell melee smacks from the hammer were more than enough damage to kill anything (fists have higher DPS, but hammer has a satisfying smack to it).

 

 

[seed]

2 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Well look what happened earlier today!

 

Lmao, and when I checked it in the morning there wasn't anything new.

[ReaperAA]

3 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Well look what happened earlier today!

 

Oh hell yes, the first release with Vulkan renderer.

[seed]

1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

Oh hell yes, the first release with Vulkan renderer.

 

So AMD users in particular can finally get a more enjoyable experience. And I can use GZDoom without having to worry about having my gamma messed up upon closing the game now, yay.

 

But judging by what Graf is saying, it's not stable yet and prone to crashes.

[ReaperAA]

33 minutes ago, seed said:

But judging by what Graf is saying, it's not stable yet and prone to crashes.

 

I just tried it now. Its still in a alpha state. Right now it still has performance and rendering issues in maps with 3d models.

 

But I am very excited. My AMD GPU (which is 25% more powerful that my iGPU in raw performance) ran like a snail on the OpenGL renderer. It was much much worse than my iGPU.

 

But right now, AMD GPU with Vulkan renderer gives roughly same performance as the iGPU with OpenGL renderer (excluding maps with 3d models). And hopefully the performance would further improve when the vulkan renderer becomes mature and bugs are fixed.

[Caffeine Freak]

5 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

GUARDIAN OF STEEL - It took me YEARS to understand how this thing worked. Seriously, this is one of the WORST designed puzzles... and it's only in hub one! Hoo boy! 2/10

 

Seriously, this puzzle isn't THAT hard to understand. It's two switches controlling two doorways. It's not well-designed by any means, but the comments in this thread make it seem like it's some mindfuck jigsaw contraption.

[CyberDreams]

I found Hexen to be a lot more confusing than Heretic (although i've only played through Hexen once and it was like 4-5 years ago in a fairly casual play-through). I got lost plenty of times to the point that i think i had to look up how to finish levels eventually. I've been meaning to play through it again but i just haven't really felt like it. 

 

I personally enjoyed Heretic a lot more. It does help that Heretic's weapons were sort of like "Doom's" in a sense, just fantasy weapon replacements basically. Each one was reminiscent of a weapon from Doom. I don't really remember much about Hexen's arsenal though so maybe it was the same way? But i agree, the level design in Heretic was more straight forward, in a sense. You didn't have to be inside the head of the level designers to actually figure them out (or play them 1000 times before you remember).

 

BTW, i usually suck at puzzles so that's probably why i was fairly bad at Hexen as from what i recall that one had a lot more.

[seed]

25 minutes ago, CyberDreams said:

BTW, i usually suck at puzzles so that's probably why i was fairly bad at Hexen as from what i recall that one had a lot more.

 

Me too, and yes it does. Hexen is far more puzzle centric than Heretic, which made me stop playing the game early on. You really need to take your time with this kind of games from my experience, otherwise you won't be able to get much out from them and drop them almost immediately.

 

27 minutes ago, CyberDreams said:

It does help that Heretic's weapons were sort of like "Doom's" in a sense, just fantasy weapon replacements basically. Each one was reminiscent of a weapon from Doom. I don't really remember much about Hexen's arsenal though so maybe it was the same way? But i agree, the level design in Heretic was more straight forward, in a sense. You didn't have to be inside the head of the level designers to actually figure them out (or play them 1000 times before you remember).

 

That's actually exactly what bothered me in Heretic. It gave me the impression of a simple Doom clone with a fantasy theme, probably because I jumped in expecting the game to be different from what I imaged, but it played way too similar. Hexen on the other hand was much more unique and charming.

[ReaperAA]

10 hours ago, whirledtsar said:

I disagree with this. Heretic's weapons largely feel underpowered & unsatisfying compared to Hexen's (at least the fighter's armory). Eg. it takes forever to kill a Disciple with your crossbow (or most other weapons), but it takes just one hammer to kill a Bishop. And of course the wand is absolute shit compared to the fists.

 

To be honest, the Disciples in Heretic are a mid tier enemy (they are comparable to Doom's cacodemons). So it makes sense that they require a few shots to die. Whereas the dark bishops are low-ish tier enemy. 

 

If u want to compare Disciples with Dark Bishops. Then I can also compare sabreclaws with centaurs. Sabreclaws die much much more quickly then centaurs. Centaurs take ages to die due to their annoying shields.

 

Also u r only taking about Fighter's weapons. Cleric's and Mage's weapons are less meaty and their starting weapons take 6-8 shots to kill ettins (the most basic and most common enemy in hexen). And then there is tomb of power in Heretic to make weapons more powerful.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Disciples have more hp, invincibility frames, extremely high damage and lower pain chance. The only thing going on for the bishop is their dash speed; Otherwise they have less damage (seriously their attack can't even harm an armored mage), almost NO normal movement speed, pretty much 100% pain chance and the tendency to get stuck in place spamming dashes. Afrits are more threatening than the bishops and that says something lol.

 

Both cleric and mage have powerful weapons; Arc of Death deals triple damage to centaurs which pretty much instakills them. Cleric has the serpent staff with nice dps but it has one major weakness and it is the existance of the fucking centaurs everywhere... good job making it almost unusable devs! Then you get firestorm which does less damage but at least it isn't reflected! 

[Dark Pulse]

To get on the point of this topic...

 

Heretic bored me, but I loved Hexen. That said, Hexen does definitely have some flaws.

 

My exposure to it was via the PS1 port, which (unlike Doom) was the most yecch console port of it. Also took up nearly a full memory card for a save!

 

But I found its atmosphere great. Darkmere is one of my favorite levels; Jimmy and I are in agreement there. The Heresiarch is indeed bullshit, as well. And of course, we have lots to be thankful for via the invention of ACS (and a few things to regret from said invention, as well).

 

It kind of always seemed to me like Hexen was a game where it'd be more useful as a glorified resource pack. I sometimes can't help but wonder what a community Hexen project would look like, but the interest for it simply isn't there I think.

 

Still, I do think it's a game most people should at least try. Hardly perfect, but it's also hard to call the game objectively bad. And nobody can deny that it blazed some trails, either.

[TheOrganGrinder]

One of the things I've been feeling for a while about Hexen is that a lot of its apparent diversity of classes, weapons, and enemies is in fact an illusion.  Three classes with a total of twelve different weapons!  But pacing concerns and gameplay limitations compel all four classes to play reasonably similarly; the most significant differentiation between the classes is that the Fighter doesn't get access to a ranged weapon (barring the grenade-like behaviour of his flechettes) until he gets his third weapon on Hub 2, vs. the Cleric and Mage both getting a ranged weapon early in Hub 1, and all that really does is constraint the Hub 1 encounter design within a paradigm of "every fight here has to be a melee-capable fight."  And that's not a particular egregious limitation considering that the grunt Ettins and slightly-more-than-grunt Centaurs are melee-only enemies.

 

Outside of the restricted-to-a-handful-of-maps Reivers and Wendigos I feel that the problem with the enemies and other gameplay elements is the opposite of overspecialisation - all the enemies feel like they're bunched together into a very narrow slice of the total possible spectrum of toughness and damage output, and so the weapons feel like incremental progressions up the damage-per-second scale rather than Doom's tactically varied "shotgun for this, plasma gun for that, rocket launcher in this other type of encounter," differentiation of weapons, enemy types, and encounter setups.  Weapons, characters, and enemies feel close enough in behaviour as to be largely interchangeable.

[Caffeine Freak]

1 hour ago, Pegg said:

Disciples have more hp, invincibility frames, extremely high damage and lower pain chance. The only thing going on for the bishop is their dash speed; Otherwise they have less damage (seriously their attack can't even harm an armored mage)

 

 

Everything you've said in this thread about enemy damage is only true at the lower difficulty settings.

[Jimmy]

13 hours ago, SOSU said:

No Deathkings review :'(

 

Next.

[Xyzzу]

Good luck with that incredibly tedious grindfest, Sump and Ordeal still trigger me to this day...

[Cruduxy Pegg]

1 hour ago, Caffeine Freak said:

 

 

Everything you've said in this thread about enemy damage is only true at the lower difficulty settings.

 

No they are weak even on skill 5. The game has many monsters with good damage like slaughtaurs, chaos serpents, wyvern, korax and wendigos who boast almost no time before firing which makes a certain fight especially annoying. Meanwhile afrits and bishops hit for very weak damage and the heresiarch won't be killing anyone any time soon with his purple stream unless they are in melee after that huge windup and take it all to their face.. that attack doesn't even aim correctly and just hits the floor infront of the heresiarch, triggering the mentioned 75% player resistance to splash damage, not even including armor which makes it close to 90% resist.

 

Of course I didn't mention Wraiths and player bosses because those have amazing damage but wraiths are way too rare to consider about the original mapset. I still stand by my advice not to play hexen on skill 4\5. Ruins the pace completely.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Pegg

[ReaperAA]

Offtopic, but does anyone know how to stop the monster respawning in Hexen (when playing in gzdoom). The constant spawning was really annoying in Deathkings.

[Dark Pulse]

1 minute ago, ReaperAA said:

Offtopic, but does anyone know how to stop the monster respawning in Hexen (when playing in gzdoom). The constant spawning was really annoying in Deathkings.

They're part of the map scripts, so in short, unless you want to play a modified WAD, there is no way.

[ReaperAA]

3 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

They're part of the map scripts, so in short, unless you want to play a modified WAD, there is no way.

 

A shame. I hated some of the maps in Deathkings because of this. *Cough* Sump *Cough*

[SaladBadger]

if you're playing gzdoom, try the console command

special 82 255

This calls ACS_Terminate on script 255 (usually the respawn script)

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

lol guardian of steel sucks

 

Why does Hexen even have so many damn hubs anyways? 

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, Marn said:

lol guardian of steel sucks

 

Why does Hexen even have so many damn hubs anyways? 

Because it wasn't an interconnected world without them.