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Archanhell

So, I started to use GZDB..

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Well, I honestly have no idea if this Topic goes here or on WADS & Mods lol and that's why I post this here.

 

So, I have started using GZDoom Builder since today, basically.

I could do my First Map from TheDemonTurtle's Tutorials (Sadly, just 4 or 5 so far.) And It went all okay, I learnt to make my first map overall, Doors, Lifts, Teleporters and Exits.

I can remember pretty much everything hopefully lol.

 

Now, my question is...

For a beginner on mapping and mapping, how hard is it to make a "decent" map with just the basics?

It really depends on a lot of factors, I know that, and if you put all your effort it can take up to months just to make a good map.

For example, I don't know how to use slopes or maps like the ones you see here and there (Hurt or Refracted Reality, more than Eye Candy they are pretty cool so far and have a lot of details, lighting, structures, etc.)

 

I was wondering, mainly, if one knows a person who does good Tutorials regarding Scripting and Mapping like Slopes, pillars, flowing lava/water, bridges, etc.

 

My first WAD will be simple, maybe a short tech base using just the basics and maybe something more advanced.

I suck at scripting, I just can do pretty basic stuff on RPG Maker or copy-paste Scripts, I can't remember them very well and I can't also retain too much Information regarding that, one of my reasons I'd ask someone good to help me on that topic if I need it (Either by guiding me or actually doing the scripts, Idk if that sounds rude I hope not.)

 

So yeah, basically that.

I have a LOT of Questions, so here I am hoping if someone can help me with that :p

 

Thank you for reading!

 

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You on the right way with GZDB :D

 

I can not say that I have full knowledge of all the UDMF and GZDoom capabilities, especially with scripts, however, I think I can help with some questions regarding slopes, 3D floors, polyobjects, lighting and the most basic ACS-scripts.

 

If you are interested in ZScript, then I definitely can not help. I do not know coding well, and there it is all serious.

 

And, maybe I will finally have the motivation to dig into someone's maps, if we cannot understand how some things are work.

 

If it is convenient for you, I can make sample maps for relevant questions.

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Just now, StormCatcher.77 said:

You on the right way with GZDB :D

 

I can not say that I have full knowledge of all the UDMF and GZDoom capabilities, especially with scripts, however, I think I can help with some questions regarding slopes, 3D floors, polyobjects, lighting and the most basic ACS-scripts.

 

If you are interested in ZScript, then I definitely can not help. I do not know coding well, and there it is all serious.

 

And, maybe I will finally have the motivation to dig into someone's maps, if we cannot understand how some things are work.

 

If it is convenient for you, I can make sample maps for relevant questions.

 

That would be pretty cool!

Right now, I think I'd focus more on what would be slopes and lighting, as hopping to polyobjects, scripting or... 3D... Floors? would be more advanced for my current capabilities :p

 

I even have the idea for how the map would kinda look like lol, I have a strong imagination.

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First of all: Slopes and advanced techniques don't make a good or fun map. That is purely gameplay. Your map can even be a little ugly and / or have mistakes like texture misalignment, etc. and still be lots of fun.

 

Generally you have the right idea of just starting and doing something small and simple. Doom mapping is like any other skill, which means you have to actually do it and practise it to get better. Watching tutorials is one thing, but actually building something is entirely different. Imho the latter is, where you actually learn.

 

Other than that; There are numerous mapping tutorials on YouTube. I suggest you look for "Doom Tutorial" look at some and decide which ones are the most easy to understand and follow for you. There is Chubzdoomer, who's tutorials are really good for beginners, but also some weird tutorials, where people expect too much base knowledge from you. Just check out what works for you. I personally like the "lazygamer" tutorials, because this guy is slooow. Which is perfect for following the tutorial along.

 

Additionally you might want to consume as much Doom content as possible. I recommend the following series on YouTube:

- Evolution of the WAD (where famous Doom mappers talk about Doom mapping history)

- WAD Wednesday (where a bioshock level design plays random Doom maps and comments on their gameplay - very informative!)

- Vinesauce Doom Mapping Contest (yes... Lots of maps to see and hear Joel talk about)

- EllaGuros Longplays of Doom 1 and 2 where she also talks about Doom's history and the gameplay of the maps.

 

I am really sorry, that I can't link you directly to all these, but I am in China and my VPN on the PC doesn't work very well. xD But usually everything is easy to find. Sorry.

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20 minutes ago, elend said:

First of all: Slopes and advanced techniques don't make a good or fun map. That is purely gameplay. Your map can even be a little ugly and / or have mistakes like texture misalignment, etc. and still be lots of fun.

 

Generally you have the right idea of just starting and doing something small and simple. Doom mapping is like any other skill, which means you have to actually do it and practise it to get better. Watching tutorials is one thing, but actually building something is entirely different. Imho the latter is, where you actually learn.

 

Other than that; There are numerous mapping tutorials on YouTube. I suggest you look for "Doom Tutorial" look at some and decide which ones are the most easy to understand and follow for you. There is Chubzdoomer, who's tutorials are really good for beginners, but also some weird tutorials, where people expect too much base knowledge from you. Just check out what works for you. I personally like the "lazygamer" tutorials, because this guy is slooow. Which is perfect for following the tutorial along.

 

Additionally you might want to consume as much Doom content as possible. I recommend the following series on YouTube:

- Evolution of the WAD (where famous Doom mappers talk about Doom mapping history)

- WAD Wednesday (where a bioshock level design plays random Doom maps and comments on their gameplay - very informative!)

- Vinesauce Doom Mapping Contest (yes... Lots of maps to see and hear Joel talk about)

- EllaGuros Longplays of Doom 1 and 2 where she also talks about Doom's history and the gameplay of the maps.

 

I am really sorry, that I can't link you directly to all these, but I am in China and my VPN on the PC doesn't work very well. xD But usually everything is easy to find. Sorry.

 

Wow, thank you very much dude!

I have been practicing stuff related to mapping for some years and honestly I wasn't too good at... Well, bird-view mapping lol!

However, I really like learning stuff when I'm not l a z y, like now, I remember being too frustated the first time I used DB2 because it basically bugged my ZDaemon and a few WADs, but this time I try again I can notice how much I changed on that aspect and that now I can try and try to achieve something good!

Yeah, right now I'm watchin' Lazygamer tutorials, kinda reminded of TheDemonTurtle by the pace of his videos so it's pretty neato.

 

About the videos and series, I'm usually a lazy guy to watch long videos, but I'll be sure to at least give it out a try, as your examples are there to help so I'll really check 'em!

 

Don't worry for the links really, I'll find 'em :p

Also, one last thing.

 

Right now I made some progress, so I'll use this small thread to post some screenies too, maybe, just of my smaaaaall progress.

I like how it's looking rn, but still have some problems like for example adding say, a laptop above a table when I can't add a sector *above* a sector lol!

 

Thank you!

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A laptop ontop of a table (the table is already a 3D floor?) could be another 3D floor ontop. If your table is not a 3D floor, then there is actually no problem at all. And like I said: Keep it simple! :p

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33 minutes ago, Empyre said:

The ZDoom Wiki is a very handy reference tool.  I learned a lot there, and you can, too.

https://zdoom.org/wiki/Action_specials

https://zdoom.org/wiki/Sector_Set3dFloor

http://zdoom.org/wiki/Slope

https://zdoom.org/wiki/MAPINFO


Alright, thank you pretty much, I'll check it once I can!

 

12 hours ago, elend said:

A laptop ontop of a table (the table is already a 3D floor?) could be another 3D floor ontop. If your table is not a 3D floor, then there is actually no problem at all. And like I said: Keep it simple! :p

 

Mhm, I'll try to keep it the simplest I can for now!

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Here's a room I made for a hub for a community project, the still-not-released 4800 Hell Knights.  The laptop doesn't use 3D floors, but it does use texture scaling.

empyreroom.zip

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2 minutes ago, Empyre said:

Here's a room I made for a hub for a community project, the still-not-released 4800 Hell Knights.  The laptop doesn't use 3D floors, but it does use texture scaling.

empyreroom.zip


Just seen it, but I don't really know how the texture scaling stuff works, but I can do simple stuff like make other sectors and raise/lower them to make, well, structures, floors, etc. The basics of building. lol, thank you for the demonstration

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You can adjust the offsets and scaling for both sectors and lines on the same tab where you select the texture.  Like me, you can learn more about it by just playing around with it.  Experiment.  "What happens if I do this?"

 

I remember that it took a lot of trial-and-error to get the scaling just right for that laptop.

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3 minutes ago, Empyre said:

You can adjust the offsets and scaling for both sectors and lines on the same tab where you select the texture.  Like me, you can learn more about it by just playing around with it.  Experiment.  "What happens if I do this?"

 

I remember that it took a lot of trial-and-error to get the scaling just right for that laptop.

 

I didn't even know you could that lol. So you can scale it and set different offsets without the need of scrolling up/down on the same direction and having it merged with other sectors on the same spot?

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Posted (edited)

Ok sorry for the double post buuut I just wanted an advice. (I'm building rn, don't know if this is on any tutorial here, which if that's the case sorry, still have to check a lot of 'em).

 

So, I don't know if this has to be with texture scaling or 3D Floors but:

 

Say I have a BIG Sector, with BIG I mean like high so the walls don't have the default size, ok, so...

I want to add a door, 128x128 door like I have learnt before to do.

However, when I do this, the door takes all the space of the high wall, meaning it looks more like it's doing a 128xidkwhat door, which just seems ugly.

 

What I'm asking if there's a way to add "2 sectors on one", so a, say, silver wall texture AND the door texture, which t h e n would make just the door be opened obviously and the wall stays still like, well, any WAD.

Is this related to 3D Floors in any way?

If that's the case, I'll have to check this ASAP because otherwise I can't follow my map.

 

I'll put the first screenie of my progress here so you can check more or less how the sector looks.

Captura de pantalla (4277).png

 

EDIT: As you can see, the walls there are pretty high, I add 2 vertices that sum a 128x128 thingie, therefore the Door texture works (After aligning) but it looks so high that well, it looks ugly.

 

I know that in order to make a door you need 2 sectors together and then make a 64x128/128x128/etc sector between in order to make both sectors look hollowed, THEN you lower one of the sectors, adding a tag and blah blah.

 

Nevertheless, does that apply for sectors of different size compared to the first one? Because I'm r e a l l y lost here, sorry!

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Don't put the door flush to the wall, create a little indentation with a lower ceiling height and put the door in there.

 

Here's a simple example inspired by your screenshot.

tallwalldoor.zip

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Gez said:

Don't put the door flush to the wall, create a little indentation with a lower ceiling height and put the door in there.

 

Here's a simple example inspired by your screenshot.

tallwalldoor.zip

 

Wow that looks cool :p

So basically!... I need to add a second sector that connects both like an usual door, but the second sector has to have a smaller ceiling height which will allow me to place the door in a way that it doesn't make look ugly like doing it without the second sector right?

 

Testing something similarly to what I thought made this, thought there's that ugly spot there I think at same time it works for the door texture, but that wouldn't work for other doors that actually have to work.

Captura de pantalla (4279).png

Edited by Archanhell

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The small sector in front of the door needs its ceiling to be where you want the top of the door to be, and do the same for the other side of the door.  Meanwhile, I suggest making the big room 192 tall, with would be 1.5 times 128, so there would be exactly 3 of those 64-unit-tall wall panels between the floor and ceiling.  this would also make the 128-unit-tall sector in front of the door look better.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Empyre said:

The small sector in front of the door needs its ceiling to be where you want the top of the door to be, and do the same for the other side of the door.  Meanwhile, I suggest making the big room 192 tall, with would be 1.5 times 128, so there would be exactly 3 of those 64-unit-tall wall panels between the floor and ceiling.  this would also make the 128-unit-tall sector in front of the door look better.

 

Sorry, I don't know how to be sure how tall are the walls, I just can say I made this to fix that error there. 

Captura de pantalla (4280).png

But yeah else than that I can't fix that, I think I should have made the room smaller in height but that makes the room looks bad and... Yeah.

I don't really know even the size of the walls lol.

 

EDIT: Apparently according to Sectors Mode its Ceiling is 176 along Height, so won't increasing it be more problematic considering my current problems due to making the first room so big?

Edited by Archanhell

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5 minutes ago, Archanhell said:

Sorry, I don't know how to be sure how tall are the walls

Hold the cursor on the floor in front of the wall. It will tell you the height of the wall in the bottom left, showing you the distance between ceiling and floor.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Payload4367 said:

Hold the cursor on the floor in front of the wall. It will tell you the height of the wall in the bottom left, showing you the distance between ceiling and floor.

 

Thank you, it's exactly 176 (Just seen this reply when I edited my message lol)

 

EDIT: This is how it looks if it's 192.

Captura de pantalla (4281).png

 

EDIT 2: So I made a new sector just like Gez suggested to me, hmm... Looks good, but I'm not really convinced by my result.

Lowering both sectors to 128 make it look default, the g o o d number but... I think I'm REALLY missing something?

 

I haven't done much but I may take a break today and continue tomorrow or later if I get the bit inspiration I need, because I already have the idea on my head, I just know how to do it.

 

Captura de pantalla (4282).png

Edited by Archanhell

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Make sure the sector in front of the door is 128 units tall, and then the texture above it will look right.

 

Next, make a thin sector in front of the UAC sign, with the floor up 32 and the ceiling down 32, which will make the sign 128 units tall, and centered vertically.  The idea is to make the sign appear to be inset into the wall just a little bit, 8 units deep at most, and maybe less than that.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Empyre said:

Make sure the sector in front of the door is 128 units tall, and then the texture above it will look right.

 

Next, make a thin sector in front of the UAC sign, with the floor up 32 and the ceiling down 32, which will make the sign 128 units tall, and centered vertically.  The idea is to make the sign appear to be inset into the wall just a little bit, 8 units deep at most, and maybe less than that.

 

I think I did that actually, and the texture was fixed (Talkin' 'bout the door.)

And I didn't think 'bout the sign actually, you want me to make it like a door but with the sign there? I couldn't make it 32x128 as it would make the typical hole made by joining two sectors but I can make it 32x16/16x128 and then do what you suggest.

 

(And now that I see the last image I sent, it looks good like that without the need of adding doors there buuuut I don't know, maybe just me?)

 

 

EDIT: Just did what you suggested with the sign, looks pretty good! 

Captura de pantalla (4284).png

Edited by Archanhell

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Posted (edited)

I think I will do a new thread someday to post all of my mapping progress.

So far, I haven't made much progress due to being busy with some other small thingies, but I have being working on a few things here and there with GZDB.

Dynamic lighting, which will not be implemented right now as well, making all sectors darker and at the same gamma is well, kind of boring to do but I could try, lol.

 

Anyways, I am wondering here if add some extra design like a computer panel (I like detailing but, to be honest I won't add it, it's just designing stuff!) or a few crates, which would look weird considering what's in the wall but at same time it's good because I may add a few monsters here!

 

...Yeah, I think I'll add crates there.

 

Anyways! Mapping progress time! 

(Should I make a thread for this on WADS & Mods later?) 

 

Btw, I added some metallic support to the first room, which is below! 

Captura de pantalla (4315).png

Captura de pantalla (4314).png

 

 

EDIT: If I want to add Music, I need to download the Midi/whatever-you-need and add it on SLADE3 or do I need like idk, just put the MUS filename? (D_RUNNIN for example)

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If you're using custom music, you'll need to use SLADE to put it in and then either replace one of the original lumps by name, or write up a quick MAPINFO to define the new music.

 

If you're just using one of the original game's tracks, just put the name of the track down in the MAPINFO.

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2 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

If you're using custom music, you'll need to use SLADE to put it in and then either replace one of the original lumps by name, or write up a quick MAPINFO to define the new music.

 

If you're just using one of the original game's tracks, just put the name of the track down in the MAPINFO.

 

I would like to use E1M5's Suspense, so I see I don't need to use SLADE due to it being one of the original tracks from the first game.

So how can I put it on the MAPINFO?

 

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36 minutes ago, Archanhell said:

 

I would like to use E1M5's Suspense, so I see I don't need to use SLADE due to it being one of the original tracks from the first game.

So how can I put it on the MAPINFO?

 

You use Slade to add the MAPINFO.  In Slade: Archive/New/New Entry and name it MAPINFO.  Click on it and choose View as Text.  Under Test Language, choose ZDoom Mapinfo.  The links below should tell you the rest.

https://zdoom.org/wiki/MAPINFO

and more specifically:

https://zdoom.org/wiki/MAPINFO/Map_definition

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Empyre said:

You use Slade to add the MAPINFO.  In Slade: Archive/New/New Entry and name it MAPINFO.  Click on it and choose View as Text.  Under Test Language, choose ZDoom Mapinfo.  The links below should tell you the rest.

https://zdoom.org/wiki/MAPINFO

and more specifically:

https://zdoom.org/wiki/MAPINFO/Map_definition

 

I watched a small tutorial a few moments ago, where I had to add this:

 

"Map MAP01 "NOMBRE"

{

LevelNum = 1

Sky1 = "SKY1"

Next = "MAP02"

Music = "D_RUNNIN"

}"

 

But when I put "D_E1M5" and save, it says "Error: Unable to open file for writing."

I read it could be the Temporal folder SLADE uses but I can't seem to change it.

EDIT: Well maybe I should not change the temp folder, but uh idk.

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Did you have the file also open in GZDB at the same time?  Don't do that.  They say that there is a way to do it safely, but I don't trust it.

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1 minute ago, Empyre said:

Did you have the file also open in GZDB at the same time?  Don't do that.  They say that there is a way to do it safely, but I don't trust it.

 

Oh yeah, I had it open... lol.

So I don't have to add the .MID file to the WAD stuff?

I just did that because I thought that was the problem lol.

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