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crazyflyingdonut

The gaming market has been flooded with crappy "retro" consoles.

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In 2016-2017, Nintendo released the NES Classic Edition and the SNES Classic Edition, which Nintendo admitted they made only to gain more money during the failure of the Wii U. They also dealt with stock issues, eBay scalpers, and recently, a wave of garbage "retro" consoles.

 

All of a sudden, SEGA, Sony, Capcom, Atari, and thousands of Chinese companies rush to shit out their own crappy "NOSTALGIA RETRO FLASHBACK BIT GAMES CONSOLE PLUG IN PLAY 69 IN 1" SOAC/consolemulator in order to ca$h in on the comeback of "retro gaming", each of them have their own problems.

 

Games may not play well (or at all), the buttons on the controllers are fragile and difficult to control, the screen probably looks bad because of how modern TV's display games from decades ago, and the games themselves may just be bad in general.

 

We, as gamers, should take some time to think about the US video game crash of 1983. Market oversaturation and no quality control briefly killed US's video game industry, and it permanently killed the original Atari, who now roams around as a zombified shell of it's former self. Then Nintendo, a Japanese company, came to America and resurrected the American video game industry, and also ensuring that the Japanese will dominate the worldwide video game industry for generations, and the only American company who had the balls to join the console wars after that was Microsoft, and they did so in 2001 with the XBOX.

 

In recent years... shopping malls, flea markets, retail stores, pharmacies (yep), and online shopping sites have been clogged with these kinds of products and I have started to wonder if maybe we need a second video game crash. The sequel. And this time, gamers across the world would be affected.

 

I'm sorry if this doesn't seem like your usual kind of post from yours truly, I'm very angry right now and my anger may have affected this post.

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27 minutes ago, crazyflyingdonut said:

All of a sudden, SEGA

 

I mean. Technically SEGA's partnership with AtGames means they've been in this particular game longer than anyone else mentioned, but please do go on. Or not.

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3 minutes ago, Jayextee said:

I mean. Technically SEGA's partnership with AtGames means they've been in this particular game longer than anyone else mentioned, but please do go on. Or not.

They may have been around since before this whole craze began, but I feel like they started milking it faster once the craze became noticeable. Yeah, I mean, there was that one time you bought this weird console that played Megadrive/Genesis games but with a very weird emulator that messes the sound up a long time ago, but now you're seeing store shelves filled to the brim with copies of them because of the whole thing.

2 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

Yes, we need a second video game crash. And it needs to take the entire posse of AMERICAN game companies with them - you know, those which invented DRM, microtransactions and trying to market games as a service. The entire market is rotten to its core and has been since Valve released Half Life 2 via Steam.

Like EA! EA in particular pisses me off because of the way they shat on the "Star Wars" franchise.

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Posted (edited)

Juxtaposed with everything else in the games industry, the market share exclusive to retro plug & play consoles is only a very small slice of the pie. In no way is it prominent enough to cause a widespread collapse of the holistic gaming market. But besides that, people always keep buying these things, no matter how poorly they review. AtGames has made a killing putting out (I believe) 9 Atari plug and & play consoles and maybe 6 or 7 Sega plug & play consoles, with more planned for the future. These consoles are marketed towards more casual gamers, so they'll be less likely to pull up any reviews informing the public that these machines aren't anywhere close to being fully functional. I also remember hearing something about one of their Namco consoles not having the games that it advertised. They're a sleazy company, yes, but fortunately, they don't affect the rest of the games industry that much. 

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Just now, Ajora said:

AtGames has made a killing putting out (I believe) 9 Atari plug and & play consoles and maybe 6 or 7 Sega plug & play consoles, with more planned for the future.

It's not just major video game companies doing this.

 

If anyone reading this wants to do this (you don't have to if you don't want to), try going to a website called "aliexpress.com". When you get there, search for "game". You'll see how big this is.

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1 minute ago, crazyflyingdonut said:

It's not just major video game companies doing this.

 

If anyone reading this wants to do this (you don't have to if you don't want to), try going to a website called "aliexpress.com". When you get there, search for "game". You'll see how big this is.

 

Yeah, I know there's a lot of other companies doing this, but AtGames is the most prominent and always receive support from the companies whose games they poorly attempt to emulate. It's not a good look for all the companies who keep giving their licenses out to AtGames. 

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SONY: PlayStation Classic doesn't even emulate the games properly (and doesn't even have some of the most popular PSX games in existence) and you would be much better off getting a real PS1 and buying the games you want. It'll be more expensive, but it'll be worth it. PlayStation Classic is apparently still in stores, and the price of it has been dropping and nobody is buying it still.

 

CAPCOM: They're apparently coming out with "Capcom Home Arcade", which uses an open-source emulator illegally. It reminds me of the whole RetroN 5 emulation scandal. If you're going to include an emulator in your product, you better READ THE FUCKING LICENSE. I honestly don't know why people still license their software with GPLv3.

 

ATARI: They're apparently coming out with an extremely expensive Linux-powered "console" which is apparently just going to play Linux games. Meaning that if you buy the upcoming Atari VCS (and I don't see why anyone would), you're paying money for a console that you hook up to your TV, and then you just connect said console to your Internet connection and you can go and download an Atari 2600 emulator, either by sudo, or by the App Store.

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I'm an American and I agree that there could be a second video game industry crash eventually.  There are simply too many games out there but is there enough money to go around?  You need to look at those Steam sales to begin with.  Some of those video game companies sell games for $60.00 to begin with but the average video game consumer does not think about the break even point where the money earned is the same as the development cost.  Truth to be, those break even points are much lower than you think and that is why Steam is able to reduce the costs of said games to crazy levels because that could be the break even point.  Those break even points are not as high as they were in the 1990's and those companies have adjusted.  Those break even points might be closer to $5-$9 per game sold based on the predictions of how many copies those games will sell.  That is another reason why we are seeing more of those games as a service plans such as EA Access and Xbox Game Pass.  The companies have already broken even on the games and anything extra is gravy.

 

As for those retro gaming consoles, it won't cost the company much to produce those things because the game development costs for those things are next to nothing.  Just look at those Raspberry Pi development boards and other similar boards.  Even the cheapest Pi costs $5 and that $5 circuit board would be more than capable enough of running those retro games on those retro consoles.  The plastic casing might even be cheaper than the circuit board and then the controllers might not be that much more.  Maybe $25-30 to make the thing that's pretty much it.  Those retro gaming consoles will not trigger the second video game industry crash.

 

Epic Games even said that their big game sales, when they come, will even offer deeper discounts than what Steam offers due to the 12% stake for Epic versus Valve's 30% stake for each game sold which will add to over swollen gamer libraries.

 

Another factor is the rising Chinese middle class.  Right now it is estimated to be about 600 million which is about two times the population of the entire US alone.  And that is focused heavily on mobile gaming and that is why the specs of phones for that market is more impressive than what we usually get for the US market.  Even if the US companies tap into a small number of Chinese middle class people, they are doing good.  That is why Walmart is probably not going away anytime soon because they are also the #1 retailer in China as well.  And that is not counting how many discount retailer chains Walmart owns for the European market as well.  And there's the rest of the world especially Asia where 60% of the world's population is at and they are big on games as well.

 

I agree with the anti-EA sentiment but at the same time as long as EA holds on to that FIFA video game license plus other games, they will be doing just fine.  The new Star Wars game is not being built on the EA Frostbite engine but the Unreal 4 Engine and will have no micro transactions either.  EA is going to bank big money during this year's holidays whether you like it or not.

 

Even if a video game market crash does occur, the rights to those games will be sold for pennies on the dollar in that time and streaming video game platforms such as Stadia, xCloud, etc will emerge.  Ditto for those retro consoles.  Even Valve and Epic will have those streaming platforms due to the $ they have on hand.  Be careful wishing for another video game crash because that will only slow down new game development for a short time then it's business as usual.  We could end up being only able to pay for the right to access those gaming libraries in the end.

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The second crash already happened -- there was a massive dip in videogame sales in the early 201x years.  The resulting contraction of AAA developers and titles still hasn't been fully recovered from.

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Posted (edited)

Costs for making AAA games are piercing right through the stratosphere. I think that eventually they could find a way to drastically cut down the costs while pleasing the markets' never ending demand for bells and whistles and the always more, but they could very well have an oh shit moment before.

 

I kind of agree with @Jalapen0's points though. That being said, I'm not sure to follow the reasoning about the break even point being much lower. The reason Steam does aggressive discounts is because in practice they are sale multipliers, that allow profits on par with the first week, not because they are the real cost a game should have in your average business day. Digital distribution coupled with "data science" allowed that kind of magic with numbers.

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Posted (edited)

People say it every time but I'll just repeat it. The answer is to stop buying from the big developers the moment they start milking everything and find newer ones instead. Of course the way business goes this isn't a fool proof method and you'll most likely have to ditch some more every few years after they merge or sell out to big publishers and ruin their own games.

 

Time to stop buying things for nostalgia, especially ones that are sold at the same price they had decades ago.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

Yes, we need a second video game crash. And it needs to take the entire posse of AMERICAN game companies with them - you know, those which invented DRM, microtransactions and trying to market games as a service. The entire market is rotten to its core and has been since Valve released Half Life 2 via Steam.

Do you really want a world where Ubisoft is king?

 

The nostalgia stuff ain't gonna affect anyone. I just wish they'd stop going for cheapness, because cheapness means it won't play properly. Now a Mega SG, on the other hand - bliss and perfection.

 

But also $190.

 

You tell me if that's worth it to you or not.

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I've been predicting another gaming crash for the past couple years. there are many factors: oversaturation, exploitative practices like microtransactions, impact of the culture war, a lack of creativity/quality, etc. (those last two are also true of entertainment as a whole).

 

there's still good stuff going on in gaming, but it's mostly on the indie level. ultimately, the fans will keep the hobby going after the industry collapses from rot.

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Actually, after reading some of these posts, I have started to wonder a bit about the side effects of an actual 2nd game crash. But they get convoluted every time I think about how there are more people involved with gaming now than there were before 1983. Could that reduce said side effects? That's what I'm trying to think about now.

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22 minutes ago, crazyflyingdonut said:

Actually, after reading some of these posts, I have started to wonder a bit about the side effects of an actual 2nd game crash. But they get convoluted every time I think about how there are more people involved with gaming now than there were before 1983. Could that reduce said side effects? That's what I'm trying to think about now.

Probably would just knock out a few of the old big players, or at the very least, force them to change. Unlike 1983, videogames are way too ingrained into our culture now, whereas in 1983 they were basically a 10 year-old industry at best.

 

Simply put, the indies will get more exposure, or the ones that provide the games players really want.

 

And hey, even if it does crash, you can finally catch up on that Steam/console library you've been amassing.

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Seriously, did you guys all sleep through 2010-2013?  Everything you're describing that would happen in a second crash already happened in the second crash that also already happened.  Did you all forget about THQ and Konami that quickly?

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There is not going to be a second videogame crash for fuck's sake. This is more of the same cynical, braindead "GAMERS RISE UP" circlejerk that has turned almost all internet gaming discussion into a logic-free wasteland. 

 

What you doomsayers fail to understand is that the AAA companies of today are not making the 4-bit games of 1983. Gaming is heavily diversified, and the industry as a whole is making money hand over fist. Unlike 1983, we have larger access to quality titles and the market isn't being flooded with E.T.-tier licensed crap with 2 months of development time. Unlike 1983, game consoles weren't releasing on a 2-to-3-year basis which wound up confusing consumers. Unlike 1983, we have access to the internet and can freely determine what games are at least somewhat good. Or are we operating under the assumption that during the SNES/n64 era there were never any shitty, buggy games? 

 

What bothers me more is the fact that several of you seem to want the industry to crash and put thousands of people out of jobs. Why? Because of LEWTBAXES/SJWs/Battle Royales/EA? Get a damn grip. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

Unlike 1983, we have larger access to quality titles and the market isn't being flooded with E.T.-tier licensed crap with 2 months of development time. Unlike 1983, game consoles weren't releasing on a 2-to-3-year basis which wound up confusing consumers.

What's it like living in 2006?  Most of what's on Steam now is asset-rip trash, both the XBone and PS4 have "upgraded" versions that are necessary to play some games, and Nintendo released two consoles in one generation with the WiiU and Switch, and Sony have already announced the PS5.

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9 minutes ago, Cynical said:

Most of what's on Steam now is asset-rip trash,

 

Steam isn't the entire market. Duh. And if Steam is 90% asset-rip trash (which it isn't. stop bloviating), then you have a selection of other launchers (Epic's launcher, Origin, GoG Galaxy, UPlay, Bethesda's launcher) to replace it with. 

 

Oh shit I forgot. You People declared all of those but GoG Galaxy (because GOG can do no wrong) DOA because downloading, installing and opening another launcher was a monumental task equivalent to fixing a car engine without tools. My bad. 

 

13 minutes ago, Cynical said:

both the XBone and PS4 have "upgraded" versions that are necessary to play some games,

 

A PS4 Plus is an optional purchase for a limited amount of games, in the same way that the N64 Expansion Pack was for a limited amount of games. The industry didn't crash with the N64. 

 

14 minutes ago, Cynical said:

and Nintendo released two consoles in one generation with the WiiU and Switch

 

And the Switch became one of Ninty's highest selling consoles ever. So if consumers were as confused by the Switch as they were with the Ateri 5200, they don't seem to be minding it. 

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12 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 

Steam isn't the entire market. Duh. And if Steam is 90% asset-rip trash (which it isn't. stop bloviating), then you have a selection of other launchers (Epic's launcher, Origin, GoG Galaxy, UPlay, Bethesda's launcher) to replace it with. 

 

Oh shit I forgot. You People declared all of those but GoG Galaxy (because GOG can do no wrong) DOA because downloading, installing and opening another launcher was a monumental task equivalent to fixing a car engine without tools. My bad. 

Please tell me where I said "90%", or that I said there were no storefronts other than Steam (which I use as the example because it's by far the most widely used one), or where I said GOG could do no wrong, or where I said I wouldn't download any other launcher (fun fact -- I have literally EVERY launcher you listed in your post, although I haven't used UPlay or Origin in close to a decade)?

 

(Also, there's real privacy concerns with Epic's launcher.  Do a bit of research -- Epic is basically owned by the Chinese government now, and its launcher digs through the user's Steam folders to report info back to home base.)

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Most modern games are trash nowadays. It's all just Call of Duty sequels, games with more microtransactions than gameplay, and the occasional good game (usually made by an indie developer) gets ignored despite the fact that it's what people would like, because there's too much trash to talk about that the good game receives no attention whatsoever. Meanwhile, companies like Erect-ronic £art$ and Ga¥₿uck$ $o£tw@r€z who have bad employees gain licenses for good franchises and once they get ahold of a profitable franchise they will do everything they can to kill it, because they get off to that kind of thing. Once one of these big bad businessmen acquire a respected developer, GAME OVER. EA has already been under investigation by the Belgian government for their lucrative lootbox schemes which is basically gambling.

 

Even companies with the most money can make layoffs so that they can have less employees to give money to so that the boss can have the most money earned to himself, which ended up happening to EA's former Japanese and Russian divisions.

 

And don't even get me started on mobile games. Mobile games in general should not be allowed to even be qualified as "games". Most of the time, you're trying to buy stuff with in-game currency, or watching a 45-second unskippable advertisement in order to gain more in-game currency! What are some great things you can buy with in-game currency? USELESS BULLCRAP THAT ONLY SLIGHTLY ENHANCES THE GAME! Not really anything to do with any kind of actual gameplay.

 

I bet that people who played the Famicom/NES back in the day look upon us gamers today in shame and dishonor, and we really deserve it because we have failed as both gamers, and as members of the human race. We've really set a great example for our children and grandchildren to see in the future.

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Yes, only Call of Duty and lootbox-driven Fortnite clones get press these days, and only indie devs make games without this stuff, which is why the three biggest releases this year so far are Sekiro, Devil May Cry V, and Resident Evil 2, none of which are even FPSs at all or set in a quasi-realistic military setting, none of which have meaningful microtransactions (DMC V has a bizarre "pay to lose" scheme, but it's easily ignored), and all of which were released by big publishers (Activision and Capcom).

 

WTF, dude.

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Cynical said:

both the XBone and PS4 have "upgraded" versions that are necessary to play some games

Within the production requirements of both the PS4 and Xbox One, no game is to be exclusive to the X or Pro consoles. Microsoft requires the game to be compatible with all 3 Xbox One consoles, and likewise with PS4 with their base console. 

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Posted (edited)

What are you even talking about @crazyflyingdonut have you even played the NES or SNES Classic consoles? You clearly have been mis informed about the display being bad and controllers being terrible. You shouldn't just go off shitty articles you see online

 

30 minutes ago, crazyflyingdonut said:

Most modern games are trash nowadays

You are just jaded
 

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In fairness to him, while the NES and SNES classics are good pieces of hardware, the PlayStation Classic is a total piece of shit.

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Ok, I'm gonna steer the thread off-topic because frankly both sides are cancerous, and we need to replace it with something actually concerning.

 

As briefly mentioned here, streaming video games is going to be the norm in the near future. It'll likely be controversial on all sides, considering the U.S has pretty shitty internet for a 1st-World country - not just expensive wise - and latency issues. But once those issues are fixed, and streaming becomes as clear and responsive as ever, every video game company is going to follow suite.

 

I'm actually worried that consumer-grade GPUs will get a REGRESSION because of this. You're not simulating and rendering a world on your computer, you're just receiving images. And once everything moves to streaming, there won't be a high demand for powerful GPUs aside from what companies need to render the games on their end. Nevermind not being able to keep the games forever once the servers shut down, you won't even be able to render them without the companies computers!

 

Streaming is going to be the logical future of digital related things, and it makes sense despite the cons, whether we like it or not.

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