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Alexagon

I don't like playing slaughterfest WADs. Which ones should I avoid?

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33 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

Some non-slaughter wads that I would recommend are:

- Eviternity (32 level Doom 2 megawad. I recommend playing this on Hurt me Plenty (skill 3) as some levels can get tough. Runs on MBF compatible ports like GZdoom, PrBoom+, Eternity, Zandronum etc.)

- DTWID (Doom 1 megawad. Levels are in the style of Doom 1)

- D2TWID (Doom 2 megawad. Levels are in the style of Doom 2)

- Deathless (Doom 1 megawad)

- No End in Sight (Doom 1 megawad)

- No Rest for the Living (10 level Doom 2 wad)

- Memento Mori 1 and 2 (Both are Doom 2 megawads)

- BTSX E1 and E2 (Both are Doom 2 megawads. I recommend playing this on Hurt me Plenty (skill 3) as some levels can be hard on UV difficulty)

- Base Ganymede (Doom 1 megawad)

- Valiant (Doom 2 megawad. I recommend playing this on HNTR (skill 2) as it is quite challenging on skill 3 onwards.. Runs on MBF compatible ports like GZdoom, PrBoom+, Eternity, Zandronum etc.)

- Ancient Aliens (Doom 2 megawad. I recommend playing this on HNTR (skill 2) as it is quite challenging on skill 3 onwards. Runs on Boom compatible ports like GZdoom, PrBoom+, Eternity, Zandronum etc.)

 

 

All good ones!

Add Dark Encounters to the list. Challenging with a lot of monsters, yet fair.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Alexagon said:

I may be getting it mixed up with Scythe. It's been a while. 

The original Scythe isn't even a slaughterwad. The only two maps that are even slaughter are Maps 26 and 30. The rest are relatively standard.

 

The final third of its sequel (Scythe 2, of course) becomes more slaughter-y around Map23, but even then I wouldn't call it a slaughterwad.

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Ones to play - Simply Phobos, Fava Beans, Demonfear, Slaughter Until Death, Zone 300, etc etc... Fun and pretty casual.

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2 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

It's perfectly fine to have some hard-as-hell gameplay on UV, but several - even respected modders - seem to forget that the lower skill levels are not for people who want to want that kind of experience so the difficulty should be adjusted for that, but if mods only get tested by die-hard UV'ers it's not going to happen.

Here's why it's actually not going to happen:


What mappers want wrt difficulty settings is their choice, and there isn't anything set in stone that says "Graf Zahl must be able to beat this map on his first attempt when he selects this difficulty setting, or else it needs toning down". So, if I were to implement skill settings for a map, it's my choice how different they are going to be from one another, and if I choose to make the differences more subtle, so that I don't hold players by their hand, while at the same time providing what I'd consider "stepping stones" towards the "intended experience™", then I'd argue that approach is fair game as well. And it's got nothing to do with "I forgot that people with skillset X exist". If anything, you people need to learn that what the mapper wants comes first, and you aren't entitled to see somebody else's maps or difficulty settings changed how you want, because it isn't your product in the first place.

 

Sorry about the slight derail, but this mindset that there are supposedly objective standards all mappers must meet unconditionally is downright nonsense.

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always the same thing when people talk slaughter wads, they mention one of the top 50 megawads which have a lot of monsters and skips over the ACTUAL slaughterwads like Holy Hell and Okuplok which are trying to set the monster number record. Like these are the epitome of Slaughter.

Do not play them. 

Definitely do not play them with Russian Overkill.

;)

 

http://doomedsda.us/wad2750.html

 

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/g-i/holyhell

 

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This discussion comes up periodically, so you may want to check these threads (these are two that I can think of off the top of my head):

 

There's a number of good suggestions in those threads. Some listed in those threads that haven't already been mentioned here include (others are mentioned in the actual threads):

 

Perdition's Gate

Moonblood

Requiem

Icarus

Equinox

The Adventures of Square (Doom 2 Total Conversion)

The Darkening Episode 1 (Doom 2: 11 maps)

Suspended in Dusk (Doom 2: 4 maps)

Unloved (Doom 2: 5 maps -- GZDoom only if that makes a difference to you)

 

And it's not listed in those threads, but you might like Double Impact (Doom: 7 maps).

Edited by Pegleg : Add Double Impact.

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2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

What NightFright describes sounds almost just like the old suprwep8.deh which makes the weapons so powerful that no enemy is even a threat, which goes a bit overboard for me personally. Maybe Nevander’s version is a bit toned down though, I haven’t played that one specifically.

I may be wrong, but suprwep8.deh "merely" makes guns shoot every tic.

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1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Here's why it's actually not going to happen:


What mappers want wrt difficulty settings is their choice, and there isn't anything set in stone that says "Graf Zahl must be able to beat this map on his first attempt when he selects this difficulty setting, or else it needs toning down". So, if I were to implement skill settings for a map, it's my choice how different they are going to be from one another, and if I choose to make the differences more subtle, so that I don't hold players by their hand, while at the same time providing what I'd consider "stepping stones" towards the "intended experience™", then I'd argue that approach is fair game as well. And it's got nothing to do with "I forgot that people with skillset X exist". If anything, you people need to learn that what the mapper wants comes first, and you aren't entitled to see somebody else's maps or difficulty settings changed how you want, because it isn't your product in the first place.

 

Sorry about the slight derail, but this mindset that there are supposedly objective standards all mappers must meet unconditionally is downright nonsense.

 

That is, if difficulty settings are to be implemented at all.

 

Balancing the map(s) for all or most settings is no easy task, and the author might not even want to make them accessible to as many people as possible in the first place (unfortunately).

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3 hours ago, NightFright said:

There is a way to enjoy slaughter wads even if you lack skills: If you use (GZ)ZDoom, there is a mod called "Swift Slaughter" by Nevander (just google it) which makes weapons fire insanely fast and gives you infinite ammo.

 

If that isn't enough, you can activate "Buddha mode" which is a God mode in disguise since your health can never drop below 1% with it. 

 

Sure, player might be able to complete the wad but I think that would also ruin the actual gameplay experience. As far as I know, alot of good slaughterwads make the encounters into puzzles and if player is too powerful, the puzzle just isn't there anymore. I also think that good slaughter shouldn't really focus too much on actually killing tons of monsters, just surviving and solving combat puzzles should be more important.

 

It was actually slaughterwads that trained me not to try always kill every monster. I used to be a scrub that played basically everything on ITYTD, it was slaugtermaps that helped me learn many skills that allow me to handle most regular stuff on HMP.  I am now even slowly starting to play more on UV. Slaughtermaps gave me skills and confidence that made me much better Doom player than before.

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9 hours ago, dylux said:

I am just not into saving, playing till you get past where you died, saving immediately, playing some more, dying again, then repeat. There's no fun and no satisfaction in that at all. Buttttttt, that's just my opinion.

I don't know the actual numbers here but most people who enjoy these kind of wad are quite the opposite of save scummers, from my experience. Unless they are playing Okuplok anyway LOL.

 

Anyway, to answer the thread, you want to stay clear of Speed of Doom, Resurgence, anything by Death-Destiny (come back already!) or TimeOfDeath, PhmlSPD, a few Eternall maps like Generator of Evil, XXXI Cybersky, 32 Inch Nails or Belial's Bad Brain. More later if you still don't feel safe in this dangerous place called idgames.

 

If one day you are in want for something tense because you have seen it all, or you are just becoming weird with Doom, then reuse that list as recommendations.

As for good ol' easy wads, I have good memories of Rebirth and I guess TVR! Maybe Icarus? They should all be around Doom 2 difficulty. Got to make sure it was Memento Mori you had a problem with though, because if not then it opens you up to say the sequel, Requiem or Reverie. And some others that were from that ilk of 90's Dooming, like Dystopia 3, A Trooper's Playground or STRAIN.

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1 minute ago, Smight said:

AV....I loaded map 18 on UV and no way could I complete it on a pistol start

It's the first map with hordes I could complete in pistol start and no save here, back when I was way worse than today :D. It's quite easy to cheese and create breathing rooms due to how it's all set up, though you don't want to stand at the middle of that one giant room. Give it a chance!

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9 minutes ago, Smight said:

So map 18 is not that bad then hmm.....there are more insane slaughter wads you didn't mention ...did you ever beat that crazy map 30 in Scythe?

Yeah I beat it a few times saveless and pistol start, though it takes me near 45/60mn every time since I'm not say Ancalagon or Ahmed, and I'm super cautious haha. This map used to scare me a lot back in high school, but once I thought it was time to conquer it a few years later, I worked on it for a few evenings and it felt super good to reach the point where I was the one in control.

 

I'm nowhere near good enough for most of the current slaughter output out there by the way (at least anything that came after Sunder crashed like a meteor on the community). It has gotten this crazy and I can see where a few members are coming from when they don't like the trend. I'll beat them eventually though. Slaughter is fun once you are in the mindset.

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I have seen a few slaughter maps done fairly. In some you get Invulnerability Spheres and it's just about BFG zerging before you run out of sphere(s) or time. I can actually enjoy that even with ridiculous enemy amounts. 

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11 hours ago, dylux said:

Get the Rocket Launcher or Plasma Rifle immediately? Yea, there's a good chance you're playing a slaugherwad. 

Under that criteria, the original Doom II could potentially be classified as a slaughterwad.

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I guess what I'm trying to get at with this thread is that I just don't want to play mapsets that have tons and tons of monsters. I don't mind difficulty, as long as it's not crap tons of dudes to kill. The problem with that I have is that it just becomes way too tedious and frankly not fun for me. 

 

So maybe I didn't mean slaughterfest exactly, but rather just mapsets with lots of enemies. And again I do not mind about actual difficulty as much. I like difficult. 

 

To give an example, I played a lot of Back to Saturn X episode 1 on HMP, and I found that having every map be 500 or so monsters was just not fun to me. I enjoyed it otherwise but it became too tedious and save scummy to me. 

 

Sorry for the confusion. I was really tired when I made this thread and I didn't express myself properly. 

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1 minute ago, Alexagon said:

I guess what I'm trying to get at with this thread is that I just don't want to play mapsets that have tons and tons of monsters. I don't mind difficulty, as long as it's not crap tons of dudes to kill. The problem with that I have is that it just becomes way too tedious and frankly not fun for me. 

 

So maybe I didn't mean slaughterfest exactly, but rather just mapsets with lots of enemies. And again I do not mind about actual difficulty as much. I like difficult. 

 

To give an example, I played a lot of Back to Saturn X episode 1 on HMP, and I found that having every map be 500 or so monsters was just not fun to me. I enjoyed it otherwise but it became too tedious and save scummy to me. 

 

Sorry for the confusion. I was really tired when I made this thread and I didn't express myself properly. 

I'm sorry, but BTSX (Ep. 1, anyway) doesn't have 500 enemies every level, even on UV. Most are in the 200 - 250 range, which is honestly, pretty average for most Doom WADs.

 

Ep. 2 IS boring, but mostly because most of the levels are simply MASSIVE.

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1 hour ago, Poncho1 said:

I'm sorry, but BTSX (Ep. 1, anyway) doesn't have 500 enemies every level, even on UV. Most are in the 200 - 250 range, which is honestly, pretty average for most Doom WADs.

 

Ep. 2 IS boring, but mostly because most of the levels are simply MASSIVE.

Man, I am just mixing up wads left and right. I cant keep track of which ones are which anymore. 

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11 hours ago, Poncho1 said:

Under that criteria, the original Doom II could potentially be classified as a slaughterwad.

 

I stand almost corrected. I forgot about that! LOL! Athough, I did say "good chance" just to CMA :P

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11 hours ago, Alexagon said:

I guess what I'm trying to get at with this thread is that I just don't want to play mapsets that have tons and tons of monsters. I don't mind difficulty, as long as it's not crap tons of dudes to kill. The problem with that I have is that it just becomes way too tedious and frankly not fun for me.

 

I personally think that enemy encounter variation is more important than the actual monster count. Just mowing down a sea of monsters for long time without anything else to do is bad level design. Even maps with smaller monster counts can be horrible to play if they spam the same monsters too much and fail to setup interesting combat situations.

 

11 hours ago, Alexagon said:

To give an example, I played a lot of Back to Saturn X episode 1 on HMP, and I found that having every map be 500 or so monsters was just not fun to me. I enjoyed it otherwise but it became too tedious and save scummy to me.

 

What is save scummy to you? I mean anything can be save scummy for someone, it is something that is very subjective thing. I used to much harder on myself with saving but started to relax once I started get into slaughtermaps too. I used to think using saves outside on level start saving was too much like cheating but now I see how it is nice that I as a player can control the pace of the level with saving. And playing something that was designed more around the ability to save can lead to many new great experiences.

 

I do limit myself to one save slot for every wad I play and I try not to ever reload my save just because I want take less damage or to use less ammo. It has worked pretty well for me so far. How do you handle your saving?

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On 4/27/2019 at 6:21 AM, dylux said:

Final thought: I know the CPU speed was much slower back in 1995, but I often wonder if the original DooM was a slaughterfest, would it be as popular as it is today?

These stock doom 2 maps are also slaughtermaps but you may not have realized it:

Suburbs

The Courtyard

 

We might consider that sorta on the low end but back then those really gave you a run for your money. The revenants and archvile in surburbs up it to that category since they can run anywhere pretty much. The courtyard also has a stream of pinkies pinning you down while spectres, mancubus, cacos and revenants try to kill you. There's also an archvile involved I think.

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16 hours ago, RSSwizard said:

These stock doom 2 maps are also slaughtermaps but you may not have realized it:

Suburbs

The Courtyard

 

We might consider that sorta on the low end but back then those really gave you a run for your money. The revenants and archvile in surburbs up it to that category since they can run anywhere pretty much. The courtyard also has a stream of pinkies pinning you down while spectres, mancubus, cacos and revenants try to kill you. There's also an archvile involved I think.

 

Some Maps on Doom II could be low end slaughter if played on UV - '90's standards. After all, Doom II DOES offer a Rocket Launcher on the first level (as Poncho1 kindly reminded me.)  :) 

 

Jeez, I've not played Doom II for years; I must give it another go. My first experience with Doom II was on a PlayStation 1 because no one I knew back then had a decent computer (I grew up in a very small town and now I'm showing my age here LOL!) to play it on. I remember when I finally played Doom II the "real" way, aka, on a normal PC, when I ran into my first Archvile, I was like, "(laughing) WTF is THAT!?!?!" LOL!! PS1 doesn't have Archviles (nor Pain Elementals) and I'd never seen them before - so, yea, to me, it was kinda like a slaughterfest when I hit the later Maps. 

 

I strayed from your point, but I am inclined to agree with your statement about Doom II. :)

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