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BigBoy91

What's your playing style?

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1 minute ago, Doomkid said:

Even when I’m winning pretty easily it’s not uncommon for me to have the highest number of deaths.

 

The price of victory eh.

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My mind is a collector of monsters, items and secrets, playing casually with furious violence and to provoke them to infight out of pleasure if necessary and save enough times to stay alive...modded or vanilla.

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I play on HMP or UV. I'm usually pretty careful and I move pretty slowly through levels. I usually play with BD because I like all the new weapons.

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Only Ultra-Violence (any WAD, even if i need to grind map for hours), never use jump, crouch, freelook (even if map is designed for it). Save when i feel it's needed (except during recording of demo). I always try to make infights when possible (sometimes i do it in too risky way), always try to kill all monsters and find secrets.

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UV - Pistol Start - No saving - WASD + mouse - No Freelook/Jumping/Crouching

 

I like to play aggressively and pull off risky maneuvers and strategies. I know some people lament "hot starts", but I love the rush of being immedeately under pressure, having to rush forward trying to find some firepower, then plowing through demons and picking up health and ammo as needed along the way. Suffice to say I love small and lethal arena-style maps. Maps exceeding 20 minutes in length, or maps that demand a more careful play style, I generally dislike, though there are exceptions.

 

I also generally try to kill everything in a level, leaving with angry demons still roaming around feels like a job half done.

Secrets I don't really care about all that much on a first playthrough, my fast paced style of play means I tend to miss most of them in any level or mapset I play. If I enjoyed a wad very much I might go back and 100% it, just to see all it has to offer.

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Cautious, yet retarded. I have a habit of occasionally doing dumb things because they seemed fun, and then paying for it dearly.

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When playing casually, I have a tendency to start an unknown map really boldly, running past lots of stuff to create infights and grab goodies. And then on finding myself low on health and stuck in a corner, I'll end up in survival mode, doing everything I can to keep those last few points of health. Since this tends to involve quite a lot of ammo use, I might then be low on ammo and needing to berserk (or non-berserk) some stuff, and/or make heavy use of infighting, maybe with ye olde doore trick. After all that, I'll probably be in a position to grab health and ammo and have broken the back of the map. And promptly die because I use a rocket at an inopportune moment. Damn you, weapon 5.

 

If while playing a map I notice some interesting shortcut possibility, I'll generally break off from playing it "normally" and see if there is a good speedrun route that can be based around it.

 

On more specific points, always pistol starts and no saves ever. (If a wad just doesn't work that way at all, I probably won't play it.) I'll tend to default to UV unless there is a good reason not to (such as the text-file saying so). Always the lowest complevel the map requires. I don't care about kills or other percentages. "It does not kill me, so why should I kill it?" - Steffen Winterfeldt

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If I am playing casually, then it's going to be UV with mouselook options, crosshair and maybe a weapon mod besides smooth doom. 

If I am trying a wad out for the first time, its UV, pistol start, smooth doom, no freelook, no crosshair. Then work from there. I go for kills. Try to find secrets, but if I reach the end, oh well. 

Also, I try not to cheese levels or skip too much. I also am more of a circle strafer than a peak and shoot type. My goal is to hit hard enough such that the enemy cant hit back. 

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I always play in HMP or UV, and HNTR if it's a really tough WAD. Never go for max anything or for speed, and i only save inbetween levels. A.K.A: Probably the average Doomer.

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I see a few references to Pistol start runs on the later maps.  I'd like to give that a try, but doubt it will happen because there's just something about starting the next map and the first thing you're greeted with is holding the Super Shotgun.  I'm too in love with that gun to go back to a Pistol! 

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6 minutes ago, Maser said:

I see a few references to Pistol start runs on the later maps.  I'd like to give that a try, but doubt it will happen because there's just something about starting the next map and the first thing you're greeted with is holding the Super Shotgun.  I'm too in love with that gun to go back to a Pistol! 

Honestly, use to be the same way. However, your gonna find out that most maps contain one. Or, have some starting weapon nearby either via enemy drop or just part of the map. Like the later maps of TNT all have a starting SSG. Most custom wads, start you with a shotgun and have SSG somewhere early on. 

It's not as bad as it sounds, you just gotta lean on beserk more. At least that's how I do it. But I am sure there are other's here are far better suited to ease your concerns than me. 

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14 hours ago, Rimantas said:

Only Ultra-Violence (any WAD, even if i need to grind map for hours)

You and me both. It's just more rewarding that way. Some people play to relax, and that's cool too, but I always wanna feel like I'm constantly improving.

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6 hours ago, Grazza said:

If while playing a map I notice some interesting shortcut possibility, I'll generally break off from playing it "normally" and see if there is a good speedrun route that can be based around it.

 

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2 hours ago, vanilla_d00m said:

If I could watch that I would.

 

I wonder if you can use T.A.S online in a death match?

 

Thousands of Chilean BFG spammers campers err... strategic zoners are -apparently- doing it already. Besides, any opponent way beyond your skill level may appear to be just using T.A.S. (or plain ol' cheatin' ;-) in any online game, ever.

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I imagine Doom TAS involves RNG manipulation through precise movements and playing input by input, frame by frame so not DM viable.

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Well, some sort of client-side RNG manipulation could occur even in DM with a suitably modified port. E.g. delaying firing by one or two (or as many as necessary) tics if that will maximize damage output per bullet or per rocket, or minimize weapon spread.

 

How would that work? At least in vanilla-like engines, most damage calculations are done on the RNG table's values, modulo 3, so an obvious modification is to fire only when the current RNG modulo will be 2, out of the possible [0, 1, 2]). This also affects weapons like the SG or SSG that fire multiple bullets: there are "weaker" and "stronger" spots on the RNG to start firing it from. The same considerations, only with a minimizing goal, apply to weapon spread. These tricks would mostly apply to hitscan attacks though, where the damage is determined the moment of firing (I think missiles are only calculated the moment of impact).

 

A more passive manipulation would be to weaken the opponent's damage, with the same technique. Sure, the best course of action is getting out of the way and not getting hit at all, BUT.... if you can't avoid it, why not fire a couple of random shots in the air so that THEIR damage calculation will be affected? Again, this only applies to missiles, as their damage calculation is, so to speak, "victim-side" ;-)

 

Of course that requires a high RNG predictability, good sync with the server etc. and needs to take the inputs and actions of your opponent into account (e.g. do they have lower or higher priority that yours? I suppose that player "0" has a higher priority and thus an advantage in such manipulations anyway).

 

But by far the most common "TAS" DM manipulations are simply known as cheats, e.g. aimbots.

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So in multiplayer each client is using it's own RNG table? How would reducing damage then since the client firing would be making the RNG calls for damage? I've thought about this while playing singleplayer, like getting a feel for the RNG so knowing the optimum tic to fire on etc but since monster movement is making RNG calls that'd be impossible in real time. Are there any ports that can show you where on the RNG table the game is currently?

 

If your client does send RNG information that affects the damage that you take I wonder if it'd be possible to spoof them all to the lowest value.

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In classic Doom, yes. Each client uses its own RNG table, and the only commands sent over the network are player actions, just like when recording a demo. So each client is supposed to keep their own score, so to speak. You could do something like give yourself e.g. 1000000 HP without the other clients knowing, but if other clients think you're dead from getting hit too much, you'll be dead to them.

 

You can also give other players 1 HP and "sudden death" them all with no effort, but other than on your own computer, they won't die anywhere else, and your game will go out of sync.

 

I'm not sure if that's still the case for the most complex Doom online ports though (ZDaemon, Odamex etc.), as they use the ZDaemon engine, and what is sent over the network  is probably more than just pure player inputs. There must also be a more complex reconstruction/arbitration process in case of such major discrepancies between clients and the server.

 

What exactly happens when a client is out of sync, is implementation-specific. E.g. what happens if one client thinks it survived a 1-on-1, but the server thinks it is dead, and it keeps receiving their player inputs? Will a "post-kill" command be sent at some point and the client will finally die with a delay in a different positions? Will it server begrudgingly "cancel out" the "death sentence" and allow the "dead" client to keep on playing? Who knows :)

 

Then there is stuff like Quake 3's client-side action prediction....one can get lost reading/thinking about this stuff.

 

 

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Yeah, I'd assume that the server itself is running the RNG which would be exploitable if you're hosting through the game rather than spinning up a dedicated server. I'm actually quite curious about how Dooms original netcode worked now, I'm gonna have to do some digging.

 

On a related note I had some fun back in the day hosting Quake 3 servers for my friends since all of their stats were stored in my ram (lol whoops now you've got no ammo and 1hp). Was good fun messing around with that.

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Hosting a game is exploitable even without outright cheating: your own actions will have no processing delay and will trump those of other players, so you are far more likely to survive evenly matched/similarly damaging situations, killing your opponents before they can pull the trigger on you etc. That holds for all types of online games, not just Doom.

 

That's why serious online gaming eventually moved to dedicated servers, which, assuming there are no local players or low-ping-bastard/high-ping-bastard extremes, should be a fairer playing ground for all. Hosting your own games and winning consistently, well, is kinda like the Aesop's fable of the The Fox and the Stork: everybody can be the undisputed champion and call the shots in their own little micro-dominion. :)

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2 hours ago, xvertigox said:

I imagine Doom TAS involves RNG manipulation through precise movements and playing input by input, frame by frame so not DM viable.

Building entire demo tic by tic (XDRE) is a little bit different from playing the game in slow-mo and re-recording (TASDoom, PrBoom+).

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At this moment, UV with max kills and all secrets, mostly pistol-start. Trying to save less every day ;)

 

I've played almost exclusively in continuous style until I tried Sunlust, but in the later maps of this (awesome) WAD I realized I did pretty well with pistol starts, and as almost all fan-made WADs are balanced for pistol starts I changed completely to this style. In maps with many enemies I often using Pacifist or near-Pacifist strategies, trying to get infighting going everytime I can. I use a mix of aggressive play with circlestrafing and camping.

 

I recently returned to the original games (Doom/Doom2) and try them with UV -fast as a preparation for Nightmare (where I still fail miserably).

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I never figured out how to FPS with a mouse (or to play any games well with one, really) so I still use the original keyboard controls. I always play continuous, unless it's a well-played WAD (usually from the 90s) that I know well and want that extra challenge. UV for IWADs and 90s stuff, HMP for more contemporary stuff. If I ever get around to playing more Ribbiks, it'll be on HNTR. I always shoot for 100%, and will spend an extra half hour trying to sniff out the last secrets and get irrationally upset when I cannot. I prefer to save frequently; life's too short to get caught by some dumb trap and then have to waste 20 minutes replaying stuff. I do try to reserve saves for times like when I know I'm about to ambushed, or I just got a breather after a harrowing battle. I'll own up to my mistakes with saves, too, though: if I do something dumb and suddenly I'm down to 10% health, well, I guess I'm saving at 10% health. My actual playstyle is all over the place, but I will always take the opportunity to snipe from cover (doorways, windows, etc.) as much as I can. On the other hand, I will still occasionally just dive into a room/area guns blazing. It's fun either way.

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