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DooM_RO

If the new series is a sequel to Doom 64...

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Posted (edited)

...Then I believe that only part of Doom 64 is canon. Let me explain:

 

Quote

Yet as the mighty Titan fell and dread engulfed the armies of Doom, the demon priests of the Blood Temples laid a trap to capture this scourge of Hell. Insatiable, even by the vanquishing of the Great One, the Hell Walker sought prey in the tombs of the Blood Keep. And blinded by his fervor, the lure drew him in. The priests brought down the temple upon the Doom Slayer, and in his defeat entombed him in the cursed sarcophagus. The mark of the Doom Slayer was burned upon his crypt, a warning to all of Hell that the terror within must never be freed. There he lies still, and ever more, in silent suffering.

 

Map 16 of Doom 64 is called Blood Keep and I seem to recall that Kadingir was called Blood Keep in the files, further strenghtening the link. The next level, Watch your Step, not only has a whole area recreated in Kadingir but also has an infamous trap at the end that seems to be referenced in the testament.

 

If all of this is true then it means that only part of the game is canon, which means that the Mother Demon is still alive. It's obvious the next villain is the IOS (since this is a remake of Hell on Earth) but if my theory is true then it's likely the Mother Demon will be the final boss of Doom 3 or Doom 2022 or whatever it will be called.

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What if !surprise! the boss of the Doom Eternal is actually the Mother Demon or something similar. Icon of Sin seemed pretty dead to me in Doom16.

It also could be something completely new. 

 

 

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If they bring back the Mother Demon, i hope most of her original details are kept in her new design.

 

That weird spine of her, dislocating from her back to the outside along with her internal organs is one of the scariest parts of her design and that works to make her terrifying .

 

And also, possible glory kill potential.

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Posted (edited)

From some of my past discussions with the folks at id in regards to DOOM 2016, a couple were really loved DOOM 64 and they considered it their personal favorite and/or first they played in the series. 

 

They also made mention that a lot of DOOM 2016 map design, theme and detail was heavily influenced by DOOM 64, so much as to the point where they had a n64 running Doom 64 at their desk while working on Doom 2016, referencing it for key areas.

 

That's not saying they don't love classic doom or doom 3. I think it would be quite obvious there's quite a few of them who favored classic doom designs and themes and other generations of the series.

 

But the few I really had detailed discussions with were adamant and had a particular passion for the n64 version and making sure it had its place in the Doom generation of today.

 

Take that as you will.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Buckshot said:

From some of my past discussions with the folks at id in regards to DOOM 2016, a couple were really loved DOOM 64 and they considered it their personal favorite and/or first they played in the series. 

 

They also made mention that a lot of DOOM 2016 map design, theme and detail was heavily influenced by DOOM 64, so much as to the point where they had a n64 running Doom 64 at their desk while working on Doom 2016, referencing it for key areas.

 

That's not saying they don't love classic doom or doom 3. I think it would be quite obvious there's quite a few of them who favored classic doom designs and themes and other generations of the series.

 

But the few I really had detailed discussions with were adamant and had a particular passion for the n64 version and making sure it had its place in the Doom generation of today.

 

Take that as you will.

 

 

 

1. I didn't really see the influence beyond Kadingir. For the most part it felt like E1 to 3-ish with their own unique spin. Would love to see more.

 

2. They need to bring it to Steam, where it rightfully belongs.

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1 minute ago, DooM_RO said:

 

1. I didn't really see the influence beyond Kadingir. For the most part it felt like E1 to 3-ish with their own unique spin. Would love to see more.

 

2. They need to bring it to Steam, where it rightfully belongs.

 

 

It was definitely there. They specifically pointed out parts of Doom 64 that they had borrowed some inspiration from and then it was like "AHHHHHH! I SEE IT NOW!". But the overall atmosphere was more Doom 64, especially in the hell / d'nur maps (who were all done coincidentally by one of the people I'm reffering to).

 

Does that mean it's a sequel to doom 64? No,I don't think that alone would be suggestive of such. But it definitely borrowed a lot of look and feel from it, as it did from the rest of the series. At the very least, it was intentional and deliberately designed with parts based on doom 64 in mind, so while it may not be solely a successor to Doom 64, it acknowledges it as part of a larger whole in regards to the series.

 

For Doom 64, I've asked Villarreal and Night Dive on their thoughts some time ago. Too much legal grey area due to Midway retaining ownership, they're not even sure where to begin or who owns what parts. Additionally, simiular issue with continuing Heretic... was told by some of the folks at id that they unfortunately don't own the IP.

 

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@Buckshot

 

I wish I could see those parts!

 

But this is Doom, not Heretic. Plus, Midway made the game FOR Id, or am I wrong? Sounds like this is an even bigger mess than Blood.

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Just now, DooM_RO said:

@Buckshot

 

I wish I could see those parts!

 

But this is Doom, not Heretic. Plus, Midway made the game FOR Id, or am I wrong? Sounds like this is an even bigger mess than Blood.

 

 

Too many parts to list here, but play through the hell maps a bit and observe a bit more closely. You'll start seeing some simularities :)

 

Doom 64 and Heretic are unfortunately both a big mess to get the rights to, or so I am told by the folks who know best on how to even begin doing so. If you want more detail on that, would suggest you reach out to Samuel Villareal (Kaiser) at Night Dive Studio. I'm sure he could provide more insight on why.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

If Id really REALLY wanted to have the rights to 64 they could just release it for the Switch or Steam.  They might have to adjust some of the sounds and artwork however.  Then it can be fought in the courts if needed.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Zemini said:

If Id really REALLY wanted to have the rights to 64 they could just release it for the Switch or Steam.  They might have to adjust some of the sounds and artwork however.  Then it can be fought in the courts if needed.

 

the financial cost of taking it to court or just outright buying the IP and tracking down everybody who's a part of it since Midway closed up shop would probably be a huge barrier.

 

I guess if they felt the juice would be worth the squeeze (aka profitable to reclaim the losses invested in obtaining that IP back), they would.

 

While the game was made under id's supervision, it was not owned by them (rather characters and name brand were likely licensed). Understand that I'm not saying it will never happen... Eventually you're going to have somebody at the right place/time or the right person who knows so and so from ages ago or reaches us out to the right person to come to an agreement or a ownership or patent expires. These things happen in time, but it might not be as fast as you'd like it to be.

 

Even stuff that we would consider abandonware today still comes back to legally haunt folks trying to obtain permissions and rights to revisit or redistribute that IP, despite it's developers and distributors closing up eons ago.

 

 

Edited by Buckshot

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Posted (edited)
On 5/22/2019 at 8:52 PM, xyzz said:

What if !surprise! the boss of the Doom Eternal is actually the Mother Demon or something similar. Icon of Sin seemed pretty dead to me in Doom16.

It also could be something completely new. 

 

 

"That was an ancient weapon retired from a bygone era. In it's prime, it could make entire worlds go extinct in the struggle for universal domination. When they could no longer fully utilize it after much battle damage, it's body decayed and became maggot food for masses of flies. As the flesh on it's face rots however, it's brain simply refuses to become worm food. That beast's mind acts as it's own portal to the demonic Stygian depths. It was relegated to a gate, ideal to spawn an invasion force where ever the servants of the wicked should rise once again in the mortal realms." -My silly take on it.

 

The Icon of Sin was a great idea in Doom 2 because of the scale, it's execution however was very limited...

 

On 5/24/2019 at 1:17 PM, whatup876 said:

If they bring back the Mother Demon, i hope most of her original details are kept in her new design.

If they do that, I hope they bring in the Unmaker as well! I think the mother demon was a threat that even makes the cyberdemons quake in fear.

 

As for the OP. It's only coincidence they bother using any material from Midway's iteration of the game. Bethesda made it clear sadly, that anything you find is just easter egg stuff and they want to be 100% that this is their original take on it having nothing to do with any of the games before D16 story wise.

Edited by Carny Goat

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