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Naked Snake

Scans are up

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Sorry about my spelling before

Its nice to see the use key go, especially with the new dynamic gui interfaces for everything its not a big deal at all, infact if anything doom will have MORE of that type of "voluntary interactivity" - not just limited to doors and so on

I dont like the Arch-ville much either

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dsm said:

Oh come on, it wouldn't be THAT bad would it? Why do you think it'd be harmful to the gameplay - it would add a more puzzle like feel to the game to use the cursor to manipulate keyboards and consoles.


The cursor and the whole dynamic interface is of course cool and all, the thing that bothers me is that you won´t be able to control (if I understand that right) when you enter the "manipulation mode" and the crosshair turns into the cursor - your weapon automatically drops down when coming close to a console and you are suddenly vulnerable! Imagine you battle it out against a demon, you are walking backwards and dodge his attacks, then you accidently come near a console and suddenly your weapon drops automatically and the cursor pops up, just in the heat of a battle...that would be very annoying.

What I would like to see would be something like that: when approaching a console/terminal/computer ...whatever, your crosshair changes it´s color or look to signalize that you can activate the "manipulation mode" - then you could hit the use-key --> weapon drops, crosshair becomes a cursor to interact with the interface. But it shouldn´t happen automatically.

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My summary:

    Good
  • Hell Knight looks awesome
  • No strafe jumping nonsense
  • No alternate weapon modes
  • Editor looks good
  • PDA
  • Graphics look better than ever
    Bad
  • Archvile's Predator 'accessories'
  • No use key
  • 'Pinky's' mechanical bits don't look right
  • Railgun not confirmed
  • Chasing some scientist
  • Female Mancubus
  • Doomguy wears too much make-up

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The female mancusbus is a good idea because she is going to... um i wont spoil it for the dumb people who will be surprised and couldnt figure it out already (hint: what does it mean to *female*?)

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Xian said:

Ladies and Gentelmen, case study in hypocrisy right here

Good call Xian.

Anyway, I got PCG in the mail today. Very awesome indeed!

Also, I think i have said this before, but i'll say it again. The new Hell Knight, IMO, doesn't look like a hell knight. I mean, the least they could do would be to add some horns. Whatever.

<!--Do not take seriously-->
Also, (I'm in the Orion state of mind here, =P) If you can DL some scientist's shopping list, maybe we can pick up some pr0n??

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Xian said:

The female mancusbus is a good idea because she is going to... um i wont spoil it for the dumb people who will be surprised and couldnt figure it out already (hint: what does it mean to *female*?)


You are a vile vile man....


Anyways, someone explain to me what in the fuck is wrong with the new arch-vile, it looks fucking badass, so it has mandables on its mouth and whatnot, I think they add to the overall character.

And you go and tell him he sucks right up to his face and see if he don't combust your ass :P

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doomedout said:

why ID why?
Why do that rapage to poor archville
WHY
WHY
WHY????


WOULD YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP PLEASE, 3 POSTS ABOUT THE SAME GODDAMN THING ARE POINTLESS, I THINK ITS 4 NOW

oPS I HITTED THE CAPS LOCK

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Sorry, but that's no where near the birdman. Speaking of which, what ever happened to that thing? Do you think it was just to show for MacWorld, or could it be the new Baron or something else that's just being hidden away by id?

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hmmmm Looks all good to me ^_^...Except for the no use key, but meh, wuddya gunna do? It might come in handy sumtimes, we'll see when it comes out. I also gotta get a better sound card, I think...:\

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Hello-allo...

so far this all sounds good with the acception of the no use button.

gatewatcher said:

maybe we can pick up some pr0n??

What's Pr0n?

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999cop said:

[image removed]

Could this be the true face of "Birdman" or something else?

No, that's the new and improved Archvile. Look [url removed]here for bigger scans instead. I think the new Archvile looks scary as hell. Still, no one answered one of my previous questions. What do you think that that demon in the bottomleftcorner is on page 5? It reminds me of a revenant..

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Lord FlatHead said:

They didn't say that. Stop making shit up.


May I quote:

Page 7: "Doom III will have spectacular...and mediocre AI and multiplay""

Page 8: "Doom III will use the same basic navigational path system as Q3....revolutionary AI is low on the priority list"

Now I think i can conclude that "The AI will be Q3A like" With emphesis on the word Q3-like. Or maybe better RtCW like (as in this game they use the Q3 AI features in a SP situation)

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The Doomguy's face looks awful now. He looks like he's stoned, and the proportions of his face seem off to me. In the E3 video his face looked more realistic in terms of proportions and he didn't seem out of it at least IMO.

Ok...no use key. I hope that if you manipulate an object, you see your hand or whatever operating it i.e you see your fingers entering in the security code.

Carmack's attitude on the 1st page sounds really off. I respect his coding ability, but this really puts me off: "So what, it's really just a gimmick, and doesn't add to the game at all in any way, so why do we need it?"

Imagine opening a drawer and finding a head inside, or several logbooks, or hidden ammo. Maybe some "spirit" scenes where if you open a drawer, it slams shut as well as other spooky stuff going on.

If he's worried about putting it in and it's not used enough, that's the level designers problem then. Yes, it may be more work for them, but some user-made maps in HL have this for god's sake. You don't have to make every single drawer able to open. Think outside the fucking box Carmack :/

Archvile- I'm kinda split over the face, but I really don't like the tail. Tails if they match the body are fine, but it doesn't really seem to make sense on its current body.

Zombies- different flesh tones? Ok, but what about different faces? I don't want to see the same clone over and over again. I also hope that some of them have different wounds on their body and not the same ones over and over.


Phobos- ok, now I'm confused. The article says that it's set on Phobos, but iD and other sources have said it's on Mars (remember that Mars was actually rendered and shown by Tim Willits in one gaming preview?)

Lost Soul- I'm with dsm, I hope that's not the actual Lost Soul, but I don't want to get into another debate over it.

PDA- sounds like System Shock 2, if used correctly could be interesting and add to the ambience.

Betruger- what the fuck? He can't be that game in the gameplay video on the pentagram (unless he turns into some kind of demon or zombie and is freed by whatever the hell is holding him there). Chasing him through Hell? I don't like the sounds of that.

AI- disappointed ("Mediocre AI" comment by Carmack) again. Decent scripting is fine, but with unpredictable and very smart AI that isn't so scripted, it could create an awesome experience, especially if you were being stalked by multiple demons.

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doomedout said:

OMg, what the hell did they do to the archville? little fukkers!!!
RUINED the whole look of it, dammit it looks so damn constipated now...what the fukkkk, happy joy boy demon, now i dont want to see the remake of cyberdemon anymore, after this bitter disappointment...
DAMN U ID

/A very angry Moderator beats doomedout to a bloody pulp for posting not one, not two but THREE posts with the same complaint.
WILL YOU PLEASE FUCKING DIE COCKSUCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I were as much of a whiner as you I'd be bitching like crazy about id supposedly "raping" the pinky, the doomguy the shotgun guys (black security guards in E3 video) and a few other things.
The new Archie looks far more demonic and evil like it should - the old one was among the least evil-looking creatures in Doom 2 imo, so this change couldn't please me more. If there's anything about it that I could even remotely complain about, it'd be the fact that they gave IT eyes, but didn't give the pinky any - it should've been the other way around. At least they both look badass now.
Also the Archvile is probably the one of the rehashed enemies to be the least changed - it still looks a lot like the old one. Don't tell me that you expected id to make it look exactly like the old archie.

Some of you guys are WAY too narrowminded and critic to ever like Doom3.

I second that.
I may not be satisfied with certain things but I will not let these things prevent me from enjoying Doom 3 when I get around to playing it. At least my own imagination has no borders.

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from the statement about medicore AI and medicore multiplayer.
the monster AI won't be super clever like other game.i only hope that will it be "fun" to fight with? good AI+good monster placement will do the job.
medicore multiplayer?well id guys doesn't even start multiplayer part of the game (as far as we know).

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Dark-tenshi said:

from the statement about medicore AI and medicore multiplayer.
the monster AI won't be super clever like other game.i only hope that will it be "fun" to fight with? good AI+good monster placement will do the job.
medicore multiplayer?well id guys doesn't even start multiplayer part of the game (as far as we know).

Remember that AI # cool enemy behavior.
There are other ways to make cool enemy behaviors, think of Half life.
HL had really shitty AI, but everyone thought "Whoa, HL's enemies has really cool AI" No they didn't, they had well-scripted behavior
So if id script the monster behavior well (and from the looks of things, it seems that they have done a decent job so far) it'd mean cool enemies that appear "smart".

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My 2 cents

The good:

It’s in certainly a survival horror FPS (JOY! My favorite kind of game!)
Ugly mother fucking monsters (in a good way)
Explosive barrels!
A good chance of a flamethrower (Please!)
All the old weapons!
Sounds like it’ll sound awesome! (Often overlooked theses days).
Music to be used sparingly.
Different classes of zombies (including civvies).
In game NPC interaction.
Some variety of locations (mars and/or phobos base, city, hell, ect)

The bad:

Not to crazy about the cybernetic monsters (can’t we save that for quake 4?)
I really don’t think much of the lost soul replacement (<=== See dsm, I said ‘replacement’ so don’t kill me :P)
A good chance the railgun will be left out. (Even if nobody else thinks so)
No use key. (Come on John! The people want a use key!)
I haven’t got it yet. :P

NOTE: this is in general, and not just from the interview.

GS-1719 said:
(under good)
No alternate weapon modes

Why is that good?

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dsm said:
HL had really shitty AI, but everyone thought "Whoa, HL's enemies has really cool AI" No they didn't, they had well-scripted behavior


Actually, they weren’t always scripted. I ran a few tests buy making some small maps to finger out how smart the solders were. What I did, was make a room with some boxes scattered about the place, put a player start at one side, an a small grop of troops on the other. When I started the map, I fired off a shot of the pistol to get there attention, and the first thing they did, was take a quick burst at me, then they darted behind the boxes, and throw grenades at me. Sometimes, running from cover to cover, taking pot shots at me. This was on hard though, on medium, they just go for cover and throw grenades. Not scripting by me what so ever. The only thing that lets them down is that they rarely move while firing.

But at any rate, how smart would zombies be anyway? demons and archville ect. should have an ounce of tactical sense.

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Ct_red_pants said:


Actually, they weren’t always scripted. I ran a few tests buy making some small maps to finger out how smart the solders were. What I did, was make a room with some boxes scattered about the place, put a player start at one side, an a small grop of troops on the other. When I started the map, I fired off a shot of the pistol to get there attention, and the first thing they did, was take a quick burst at me, then they darted behind the boxes, and throw grenades at me. Sometimes, running from cover to cover, taking pot shots at me. This was on hard though, on medium, they just go for cover and throw grenades. Not scripting by me what so ever. The only thing that lets them down is that they rarely move while firing.

I can't see how this proves me wrong - it's important that you can distinguish between scripted events and stuff that's scripted into the individual enemy code.
I wasn't saying that the HL soldiers' behavior was merely scripted events - what I was saying was that their behavior was a bunch of scripts in their code - The stuff about seeking cover and covering each other is stuff that they will always do regardless of the situation.

(anyone with a more thorough knowledge within this field correct me if I'm wrong)

AI is not what most people wrongly assume it is - I know that for certain.
AI is characterized by the ability to think independently - the ability to draw logical conclusions and make complex decisions. Do we really want enemies that advanced? No, we want enemies that employ certain tactics to put you down ten feet under as quickly as possible while avoiding getting killed themselves - that's pretty certainly not ai, that's behavior scripted into the enemies' code - like "when player action = y, execute script AZ2" (or something), basically meaning that when you (the player) approach the enemy from direction y, the enemy will employ tactic X.

But at any rate, how smart would zombies be anyway? demons and archville ect. should have an ounce of tactical sense.

And how about possessed humans? They can talk, speaking seemingly grammatical correct English, meaning that they aren't totally braindead. Also notice how the pinky in the famous fire scene is able to break objects blocking its path and leaping over obstacles - I've seen comments about this scene that went like "that seems like pretty good ai to me" - it's all behavior folks not ai.

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Zoost said:

Page 8: "Doom III will use the same basic navigational path system as Q3....revolutionary AI is low on the priority list"


"basic navigational path system" is not a synonym for AI.

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Ct_red_pants said:

No use key? oh come on! it was all right for quake (since they were made with DM in mind) but geez, I hated it. there is such a thing as making things to simple.


The use key is good in both DM and SP. Closing doors, for instance, is an excellent tactic against any opponent. Additionally, in DM you can activate lifts or objects to affect your opponents or the environment.

Little Faith said:

But apparantly John Carmack hates usekeys for some reason.


Heh. I remember Romero said that one of the great things about DOOM is the use key.

dsm said:

3. God dammit, that doomguy (on the cover) looks uglier (and less like the old doomguy) than I thought he was in the leaked video. Sorry if I'm being nitpicky here - I'm only voicing my opinion, if you think the new doomguy looks better than that's good for you.


The face resembles the status bar face, only that the hair is a bit darker. Both faces remind me of classic comic book hero faces, or the faces of military heroes in old war movies (like WW2 movies.)

----

DOOM III, more than a game seems like a digitalized "let's pretend" game, like we played when we were children. Back then the point was acting and imagining things and actions, here it's observing the scenery and shooting some monsters. It's like the fact that it's a "game" is lost due to the improvements in technology. Carmack even says he's bored of games, so it's no wonder he's more interested in creating a scene (and moods... more like an interactive movie) than a game that is supposed be mainly fun.

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Disorder said:Still, no one answered one of my previous questions. What do you think that that demon in the bottomleftcorner is on page 5? It reminds me of a revenant..


That would be the Arch-Vile again. The Revenant has it's bottom jaw, it's eyes have a bluish glow, not yellow, and it's clearly wearing and armored vest. It, IMO, is the least changed enemy of all, and is instantly recongnizable without question. I don't know why they haven't released any pictures of it, though...

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Lord FlatHead said:

"basic navigational path system" is not a synonym for AI.


Goddamn, you really want to have the last word. Indeed it is not the same, but makes up a large portion of it http://www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/.

The point I wanted to make is that they build on the Q3 AI technology they allready have (what is a good thing imo) but slower. Now just accept that this is what i read in the text, you can read your thing.

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okay...
Hell knight looks awesome, seriously, it gives off a fearful presence by its size and appearance, definately looks like a boss demon but it is not...looks slightly more alienish then demonic but still awesome...the zombies look pretty okay, the fat one in particlar with those vacant eyes, the pink demon IMO looks pretty decent for the first time in the last page, where its body does not look distorted, and frankly thank God it did not have eyes...
Why do you people like to jump to conclusions, i agree Carmacks attitude was pretty wierd in the beginning, but why this issue over use key? Im sure ID have a way to compensate for it and in fact make it so that the use key is essential to be left out in order for the game to be more immersive and flow as one...I dont know but there is a really good reason why it is left out and it will show in the game, very premature to discuss its shortcomings...AND MODERATE AI...again that should be the case because figthing against intelligent monsters just does not make sense...you dont want to see a zombie getting injured and tehn ducking under some boxes...that would be stupid and pointless IMO and it would defy what doom ever stood for...Doom guy is wearing too much makeup, he needs a more convincing face with a rugged look...not some hollywood action hero... The New Lost Soul is fucking awesome...however i wont go into archville because of the replies...but seriously wtf???

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I love the looks of ALL the new monsters, simply because they are acomplishing their goal of wanting to scare the shit out of you.

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doomedout said:

Doom guy is wearing too much makeup

O_o

How did you come to the conclusion he's wearing makeup? I don't understand that at all. Seriously, stop being dumb and bitchy.

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