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OpenRift

Noob Question: Is losing all your acquired weapons upon death a part of Vanilla Doom?

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I've started playing on Chocolate Doom, as I wanted the definitive experience of the game, and I noticed that upon death, I lose all the weapons that I've gained thus far. Is that an original feature or is that a gamerule set by chocolate Doom? I've played through the whole game on GZDoom and never experienced that. Or maybe I'm just stupid and forgot or something.

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It's in the original game. Zdoom-based source ports have an autosave function which is activated by default, more purist ports do not.

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Whenever you die and restart the level, you always lose all your weapons. That's very much original Doom behavior. 

 

In GZDoom, when you die you don't automatically restart the level though, the game reloads your last save. It always throws down an autosave at the beginning of the level, so you never actually restart the map unless you choose to using the console or cheats.

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Yeah that's normal. Every map in almost every megawad, official Iwads and community made pwads, is designed to be beatable from pistol start. Many in this forum even prefer to play mapsets that way. 90% of the time I just play continuous but you get to experience the map much better when pistol starting.

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Short answer is yes.

 

When you die you lose your progress in the said level, including equipment, and go back to square one. Ports such as ZDoom and its derivatives have an autosave function enabled by default, but it can be disabled if so is desired in order to pistol start the map. More conservative ports do not have such a feature.

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When I started playing Doom I used to be worried about this: will I be able to beat the map with a pistol and 50 bullets? Surely you can't with E4M2! Turned out it was very doable because as said above everything was balanced around that kind of start.

 

Continuous has its charm for people who value "immersion" or like to treat it as a bonus to surviving a map with the snowball effect of resources. I'm now a pistol start forever kind of person (I just love "solving" each level on its own terms, it's like playing a mini-metroidvania each time), but the latter can be interesting if you pistol start when dying but continue otherwise. Kind of like arcade games with a punishing death system but otherwise always giving you all you need, and that you can steamroll if you have a good execution.

 

Anyway saying you too much compared to your simple question, but I think Doom's modularity is worth appreciating for a moment :P

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Yes it is a very intentional feature in vanilla doom, it is even mentioned in the manual that dying will lead you to restart the map with only a pistol

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Yes, it's a thing since 1993.

 

Doom was the Dark Souls of its time.

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Don't forget that you still have the option to manually save and load the game, if you don't want to pistol start.

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All maps in the Iwads are do-able with pistol start so it shouldn't be a big problem if you forget to start at the start of a level.

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Quicksave at start of levels and you won't have to worry about it.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, OpenRift said:

Is that an original feature or is that a gamerule set by chocolate Doom?

Chocolate Doom changes absolutely zero rules. If something happens (or doesn't happen) in Chocolate Doom, then that's exactly how it worked originally. That's the whole point of Chocolate Doom.

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According to Romero (I think he says it during one of the Devs Play videos), when iD was developing Doom they were trying to remove some of the elements of Wolfenstein that had more of an arcade feeling to them: scoring and lives. Scoring was easy enough to remove, but there had to be some consequence to dying without forcing you to start the entire game over. So they came up with the mechanic where if you die, you start that level over with 100% health and just a pistol. Think of it like 1 life, but with infinite continues.

 

So, yes, pistol start was a very conscious design decision that was meant to be a punishment for dying (i.e., you lost all your weapons, almost all your ammo, and your armor). It's also why every map in the iwads is beatable from pistol start--they wanted the punishment to be that it would be more difficult for you to progress in the game, not that the game was impossible to beat if you died.

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Indeed. The manual suggests you should save often or suffer the consequences of losing all acquired weapons, thus auto-save is just making that step for you. I prefer continuity and progression so I like the feature being optional.

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I'll also point out that the reason ZDoom has the autosave mechanic is because it also supports Hexen and Strife in a unified way; and in these games, due to how the levels are organized in hubs rather than a linear progression from level to level, resetting your progress means you could get completely locked.

 

E.g. in map 1 you open the door to map 2, then you die in map 2 so everything is reset, and when you go back to map 1 the door to the rest of the level (which you had opened to reach map 2 in the first place) is back to being closed, so you're now stuck. More generally, these games rely on being able to flag that you've done various steps of progression (Hexen does it with ACS variables; Strife by putting token items in the player's inventory), so a reset would break everything, the only work around would be to make you restart from the start of the hub rather than the current map.

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On 5/28/2019 at 7:02 PM, Pegleg said:

According to Romero (I think he says it during one of the Devs Play videos), when iD was developing Doom they were trying to remove some of the elements of Wolfenstein that had more of an arcade feeling to them: scoring and lives. Scoring was easy enough to remove, but there had to be some consequence to dying without forcing you to start the entire game over. So they came up with the mechanic where if you die, you start that level over with 100% health and just a pistol. Think of it like 1 life, but with infinite continues.

 

So, yes, pistol start was a very conscious design decision that was meant to be a punishment for dying (i.e., you lost all your weapons, almost all your ammo, and your armor). It's also why every map in the iwads is beatable from pistol start--they wanted the punishment to be that it would be more difficult for you to progress in the game, not that the game was impossible to beat if you died.

No, while it's true they wanted to do away with lives and scores. It was something they figured out along the way of Doom development. Lives were pointless, since they didn't add anything to the game. And scores were arcady and didn't really add anything either.. (who really compared scores instead of the actual stats of the map?)

 

But that's all really. If you died in Wolfenstein you would reset to a pistol start too. Just that you didn't have infinite chances as you were running out of lives. But since you could save, that made the extra lives pretty much a pointless feature.

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