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Armaetus

Iron Maiden files trademark suit against Ion Maiden

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39 minutes ago, EtherBot said:

Genuinely don't understand what people are talking about when they say the ion maiden logo clearly took inspiration from the iron maidan logo...they literally look nothing alike.

I was sure that I saw a different game logo that did look more similar, but I'll admit that I can't remember. I'll go with your logo.

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Both have the same I without serifs. And that's where the similarities end.

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Posted (edited)

 

 

On 6/4/2019 at 2:00 PM, cybdmn said:

 

No, this did not came out of the blue. They got a C&D letter month ago. TerminX wrote something over at duke4.net:

 

Eh? We agreed to abandon the trademark registration as a goodwill gesture to show our intent to not dilute the band's trademark (not that it would have), but they still wanted us to change the name which we declined to do. Abandoning the trademark doesn't really matter much here because trademarks are for enabling you to bring suits against others for infringement, and not explicitly for defending against them.

 

I think the lawsuit is the answer.

 

On 6/5/2019 at 1:10 AM, Graf Zahl said:

 

Ok then. In this case 3D Realms is entirely to blame themselves. It should have been clear that the band was not happy with this name and yet they persistently clung to it. Well, it was inevitable in this case. I cannot really say I am surprised that this wasn't the first action being taken.

 

Acting this densely when trademarks are involved is the certain road to trouble.

 

 

 

Why are people still talking about this? Just look at these posts that i quoted above. They explain why there is a lawsuit against them. If i created a game and somehow pissed someone as big as Iron Maiden off and they came after me and all they wanted me to do was change the name of the game, i'd sure as shit do it. 3DR are a small company now. They can't possibly fight them off and win.

 

I guess Voidpoint/3DR just think it's a scare tactic? Who knows...

 

I mean, yes it could hurt the game by having to possibly rebrand it again but what's worse...getting sued bigtime or having to redo parts of the game/advertising it all over again?

 

(TBH they both sound pretty bad)

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So it's not only not released in Q2, but the announcement isn't even made in Q2. Thanks a lot.

 

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So, the predictions were right after all, it missed the Q2 2019 deadline, and thanks to the lawsuit... well, I dunno, maybe that announcement is going to surprise us but given the current situation I don't expect to see the game out earlier than Q3 or Q4 2019.

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Posted (edited)

I didn't have much interest for Ion Maiden but Iron Maiden themselves got put on my shitlist.

Stop fucking with the little guy.

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On 6/30/2019 at 10:11 PM, Armaetus said:

Stop fucking with the little guy.

You might feel different if you had a 40+ year legacy that someone was copying. To me, it's like those hackers that copy bank websites and use slightly different web addresses to fool you: www.f1rstnationalbank.com.

 

There is no way the game company came up with that name out of the blue, and they are adamant about keeping it, after being asked to use a name that was not a blatant ripoff.

 

It's like naming your game "Lead Zeppelin", or "Metallican". It's ridiculous, and obvious. Yeah, boo hoo poor little guy, indeed.

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26 minutes ago, kb1 said:

You might feel different if you had a 40+ year legacy that someone was copying. To me, it's like those hackers that copy bank websites and use slightly different web addresses to fool you: www.f1rstnationalbank.com.


Who is going to be confusing the video game for the band? The only resemblance is the name; the rest is nothing like the band (unlike the bank spoof websites you refer to). It's unfortunate that the band took its name from a famous medieval torture device, but things like this happen when you ride upon a pre-existing historical legacy.

And it didn't start here with them as they sued the small comic "Iron and the maiden" as someone already mentioned. I understand the lawyers are probably telling the band that if they don't fight this then it might prevent them from doing further legal action against other similar names. But the lawyers don't really care about the outcome or the band's reputation as they get paid either way.
 

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9 hours ago, Immorpher said:


Who is going to be confusing the video game for the band?

 

Everybody not deeply involved with gaming, maybe? Sorry, that argument does not count, what if the band wants to release a video game - oh wait, they already did...

 

This argument only would have merit if the trademark was bound to a specific field of business but it's my impression that it isn't, but is in fact a universal trademark.

The bottom line is: If someone has registered a trademark, nobody has any right to abuse it in any way or the trademark holder will come after you. In most cases it's just an honest mistake and there's enough options to find a solution that is mutually acceptable, but in this case 3D Realms utterly refused to do anything about it, and now they'll have to face the consequences.


And please don't bring up the missing 'R'! Many people won't get it and mix up both terms so the risk of brand dilution is not just a theoretical thing here.

 

BTW, did you know that the word "Dumpster" once was a registered trademark for a brand of waste containers? The company owning it didn't protect it sufficiently and now it's just a generic term for waste containers with no association to its original brand. THAT is what the band might risk if they do not act!

 

 

 

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So the previous announcement said that would get a new announcement tomorrow.

 

Maybe they'll do a DNF and switch to Darkplaces while Wrath will switch to the Quake 3 engine.

 

Like @seed, I expect another delay.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

Everybody not deeply involved with gaming, maybe? Sorry, that argument does not count, what if the band wants to release a video game - oh wait, they already did...

 

This argument only would have merit if the trademark was bound to a specific field of business but it's my impression that it isn't, but is in fact a universal trademark.

The bottom line is: If someone has registered a trademark, nobody has any right to abuse it in any way or the trademark holder will come after you. In most cases it's just an honest mistake and there's enough options to find a solution that is mutually acceptable, but in this case 3D Realms utterly refused to do anything about it, and now they'll have to face the consequences.


And please don't bring up the missing 'R'! Many people won't get it and mix up both terms so the risk of brand dilution is not just a theoretical thing here.

 

BTW, did you know that the word "Dumpster" once was a registered trademark for a brand of waste containers? The company owning it didn't protect it sufficiently and now it's just a generic term for waste containers with no association to its original brand. THAT is what the band might risk if they do not act!

 

 

It's gonna have a new name announced tomorrow, so it's all a done deal now. I do disagree with you on that though. Ion Maiden I don't think is confusing, while a pun on the term Iron Maiden. I think it's fun to be able to do stuff like that, and it's not really taking any money from the band's brand. We would never have Deadpool (Wade Wilson) today if everyone was always so litigious for example. A fun character who might not be around if DC decided they had wanted to sue them for ripping off Deathstroke (Slade Wilson). They were having some fun with the name and aesthetics of Deadpool, and Marvel and DC both often did this, but ultimately he ended up a character with a completely different appeal from Deathstroke. It's fun to riff on things in pop culture. Subject to personal taste whether it's a sham or has artistic merit, case by case, I personally thought Ion Maiden was a fun name. Didn't make me think it was attempting to ride on the band's coattails.

 

And we're on the Doom forum, a game that borrowed melodies from several bands similar to the one who went after Ion Maiden. Much more direct and blatant stuff. While you might see where the bands are coming from, I assume you'd also feel for fans who wouldn't like it if Doom could no longer include the classic music anymore for example. It's just one of those things. I don't think it was taking any money from those bands potential profits, if anything it was a tribute, and a fun thing people might notice. But I get that we'll see less and less stuff like that.

 

The game should be out this year, and it'll be good stuff. Can't wait to see the new stuff.

 

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The name is not a pun on the band, it's a pun on Duke Nukem. Ion is a reference to Nukem, both to do with atomic radiation. Maiden is a reference to Duke because they are both titles. If it were spelled like the band it wouldn't make any sense.

 

If Iron Maiden wanted to secure their name they should have done something original instead of just copying something that pre-existed. At least 3D Realms included a clever and relevant twist.

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Pun may not have been the right word, wordplay of some kind. A clever name that does fit the game and character, but also sounds like a riff on the known term Iron Maiden. I forget which word that would be instead of pun. You mention they put a clever twist on it, that's what I mean. That said, I do think Iron Maiden is a cool name for a band as well, especially in the 70s when they came up with it. Sure beats Kansas. But I do disagree with them on this one. But at least from the positive vibes I'm seeing hinted from the devs, sounds like it all probably worked out.

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6 hours ago, Space Marinara said:

The name is not a pun on the band, it's a pun on Duke Nukem. Ion is a reference to Nukem, both to do with atomic radiation. Maiden is a reference to Duke because they are both titles. If it were spelled like the band it wouldn't make any sense.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a pun on Duke Nukem or some clever wordplay on anything else - the end result is still that it is dangerously close to a well-established widely known registered trademark in order to cause confusion.

 

All the courts in the world won't ever follow the armchair analysis performed in forums like this one.

 

What they see is "Ion Maiden" and "Iron Maiden", what they *hear* when these are spoken out is even closer and they'll inevitably come to the conclusion that this name will either damage the brand directly or might indirectly dilute the brand's value by reducing its effectiveness for gaming related activities the band might engage in at some future time.

 

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On 7/9/2019 at 10:50 PM, Immorpher said:


Who is going to be confusing the video game for the band? The only resemblance is the name; the rest is nothing like the band (unlike the bank spoof websites you refer to). It's unfortunate that the band took its name from a famous medieval torture device, but things like this happen when you ride upon a pre-existing historical legacy.

And it didn't start here with them as they sued the small comic "Iron and the maiden" as someone already mentioned. I understand the lawyers are probably telling the band that if they don't fight this then it might prevent them from doing further legal action against other similar names. But the lawyers don't really care about the outcome or the band's reputation as they get paid either way.
 

I think it's the other way around: I see the game name, and before I even read it, I first think of the band, then I go, "Oh, no, it's the game name". It suggests an association, and I think the game guys did that on purpose...but, maybe not. Regardless, I feel an association immediately.

 

 

On 7/10/2019 at 12:11 AM, EtherBot said:

whats your source port

That's a story for another time (and thread).

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Posted (edited)

Very nice to see a release date. I think Ion Maiden was a better title but whatever, it's just a name. Fuck Iron Maiden though.

 

Can't wait to finally get my hands on the full version. This and Wrath: Aeon of Ruin (what a name...) are my two most anticipated games.

 

edit: The new art without text:

ION_FURY_KEYART_2.png

Edited by Slipgate Tourist

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I have to say the new name isn't half bad, for some reason I had my expectations way down when the name change had been announced. Still though, fuck Iron Maiden.

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I am fine with the new name and the release date is good for me too. So I am happy!

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Posted (edited)

I actually prefer the new name.  Like many others, when I first heard the original name I just thought of the band, but Ion Fury is much more its own identity and actually I think it evokes the feeling of the game better than Ion Maiden did.

 

Sweet video though.  The music sounds like Hanger 18 via Bonny Tyler.

Edited by Bauul

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New name is reeeeally generic, but what else can you expect at this point? Good for them for not being sued!

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16 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

What they see is "Ion Maiden" and "Iron Maiden", what they *hear* when these are spoken out is even closer

It's interesting that the default assumption by the legal system is that the general public doesn't have reading comprehension or the ability to pronounce things correctly. Even someone who legitimately can't read could tell the two are different.

 

And it seems kinda dicey to me that a party could invoke "it sounds like" into a legal dispute. It's not fact based and whiffs of grasping at straws. I would describe it as phonetic vulturism.

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Posted (edited)

While I'm glad its been settled; that really blows goats. Kinda wish they'd reverted to the original 1997 title of Bitch or just gone with Lady Bombshell 3D.

Words, colors, names, places, and so on should not belong to one company. Especially in a case like this where its clearly a different title. How fuck'n lazy are people when it comes to reading comprehension? I'm all kinds of dyslexic, so if anyone was going to confuse Ion with Iron it would be me, except its only three letters so that would never happen. At least they kept Ion and Fury is not too bad, just a little generic.

Edited by Kills Alone : missing word

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Posted (edited)

I prefer the new name. Imagine if they changed it to "Iron Fury" now that would've been funny.

Edited by unerxai

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Can't they just change it to 10N M41D3N?

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Wow - all the reading comprehension experts here, yet the lack of understanding of brand association. Oh, and Iron Maiden is awesome.

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6 hours ago, Space Marinara said:

It's interesting that the default assumption by the legal system is that the general public doesn't have reading comprehension or the ability to pronounce things correctly. Even someone who legitimately can't read could tell the two are different.

 

It's not about reading but about associating. The brain is playing nasty tricks on you here. For someone who knows the band the names are sufficiently similar to immediately make a connection. Trademarks are a bit more protected than you think, actually, it's just not allowed to reproduce the trademark literally, it is also not allowed to use a mark that may make people make incorrect associations with an unrelated brand.

 

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