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MeetyourUnmaker

unpopular retro opinions

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10 hours ago, Teabλg_Johnson said:

I had to. It's too easy for my taste.

!!!Hardcore gamer alert!!!

 

!!!Hardcore gamer alert!!!

 

Spoiler

Sorry, I just had to.

 

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13 hours ago, Jayextee said:

I loathe 'retro' as a descriptor and think that if something remains enjoyable despite (or in spite of) its age, culturally-fetishising it is wrong because it's as okay for people to enjoy older things as it is The Hip New Current ThingTM.

There. That's my 'unpopular' retro opinion for the thread.

 

We should call them "vintage" then :p.

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Of the pre-Super Mario Bros. games I've played (including classics like Donkey Kong and Pac-Man), Balloon Fight (on the NES Classic Mini) is comfortably the one I've enjoyed the most.

 

Wolf 3D, Rise of the Triad, Blake Stone and other games using the engine hold up terribly, mostly due to the incredible enemy lethality... But also due to being flat rectilinear mazes.

 

Doom-engine, Build-engine games and similar are only worth playing these days through modern, feature-enhancing source ports or updated re-releases (Duke Nukem 3D: Megaton Edition, Blood: Fresh Supply and Shadow Warrior Classic Redux), as the old control schemes, auto aim and lack of free-look have aged terribly. However, in a less controversial turn, with the corrections and improved rendering these games are generally some of the better FPS experiences. Fresh Supply in particular saves Blood with it's "Made To Order" custom difficulty settings.

 

The lives system was a blight on gaming carried over from arcades that ruins almost every game it's in. Save states, rewind features and checkpoints allow challenging level design, combat and puzzles to be much more tolerable and enjoyable by stopping the game actively wasting your time having to perfect a single run.

 

Carmageddon 64 remains a good game despite the green blood and zombies being used as censorship. Admittedly, the other Carmageddon games that I've played have been better (Splat Pack aside), but I'm yet to get round to 2 and TDR 2000.

 

Midnight Club 2 was the best racing game I'd played until Forza Motorsport 3, but still holds up as an unrealistic arcade experience.

 

 

I think that's the majority, for now.

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Posted (edited)

- Playing Doom engine games without auto aim is strange. I keep auto aim on even if the wad I'm playing requires freelook, it doesn't quite feel right to me otherwise. Less so in Build engine games because auto aim can be a bit aggressive sometimes and can easily lead to instances where you shoot a small enemy on the ground, only for your shots to reach someone else because of auto aim's target prioritization.

Edited by seed

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Hexen II is by far the greatest game in the Heretic/Hexen universe. Also, the puzzles aren't that hard

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Posted (edited)

I think HL1 and 2 are vastly overrated. Every time I try to replay them nowadays I got bored after only an hour or more, there's many other games from around their times that I still enjoy enough to replay and finish.

Edited by Avoozl

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2 hours ago, Avoozl said:

I think HL1 and 2 are vastly overrated. Every time I try to replay them nowadays I got bored after only an hour or more, there's many other games from around their times that I still enjoy enough to replay and finish.

 

Not surprising.

 

That's because both of them focused more on the narrative and immersion as opposed to raw action, so if you don't care about that at all you are unlikely to play the games to the very end.

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Posted (edited)

I have played through HL1 4 times (6 since I played the expansions) I tried to replay it again but it just started to look dated and I find it hard to want to play it anymore. As with HL2 I played it 1.5 times (the expansions once each as well) before I found I couldn't touch it anymore, I found the story interesting enough to play it the first time but not so much the second time, I did find the gunplay very weak and the game just felt incredibly linear. I don't only play raw action games nor are they the reason why I find the series overrated.

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2 minutes ago, Avoozl said:

I have played through HL1 4 times (6 since I played the expansions) I tried to replay it again but it just started to look dated and I find it hard to want to play it anymore. As with HL2 I played it 1.5 times (the expansions once each as well) before I found I couldn't touch it anymore, I found teh story interesting enough to play it the first time but not so much the second time. I don't only play raw action games nor are they the reason why I find the series overrated.

 

Eh, I wouldn't call the series overrated, but I definitely see your point. After playing the games a few times there's basically nothing else to see, the same reason why I have not touched them in years either.

 

I've played them many times, and I've seen all there was to see, there's nothing else that makes me want to replay them anymore.

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I played them like hundreds of times, and still do through Discord events and occasionally Sven and Synergy, still feels good for quick rounds.

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Posted (edited)

Alright, time to drop a bomb here:

 

Doom 1 as a whole isn't a very good game. The shareware episode is a classic to be sure, but E2 and E3 have a lot of problems especially the latter. Mind you that I am talking strictly about the original registered version, not counting Thy Flesh Consumed as it was added in after Doom 2's release. Several maps suffer from lack of height variation and engaging level flow. You can easily tell that most of Episode 3 was rushed, House of Pain and Warrens both being clear examples. I can count the number of maps I actually liked out of the latter two thirds of the game on one hand, most of those being modified Tom Hall maps. None of this is Sandy Petersen's fault either, the guy was only given two months to create the levels and had never used a level editor before prior to working on Doom. People often criticize his levels in Doom 2, but I believe they are much more fleshed out than anything he made in Doom 1. Doom 2 isn't perfect, but I feel that it's more enjoyable as a whole than Doom 1 was.

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E1 of Doom 1 sucks compared to E2, Almost each level of E2 is memorable where as only a few levels of E1 are memorable. I personally hate E1M3 and E1M7

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- Castlevania (NES) is better than Symphony of the Night
- Quake 2 is very boring compared to the first game and I can't care less about Sonic Mayhem's music
- Blood is a good but overrated game (still, I like it very much)

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Posted (edited)

I'm not the biggest Quake fan to be honest. The levels look blander than Doom's despite the 3D engine, and the game as a whole just looks ugly despite being technically superior. The weapons feel really weak too- the nailguns don't feel very powerful, and those are the sorriest excuses for shotguns I've ever seen, a huge step backwards from the Doom SSG or even the basic pump shotgun. The only weapon that feels fun to use is the Rocket Launcher. I can appreciate its contributions in the history of 3D video games and online play, but it's aged horribly compared to the Doom games.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Doominator2 said:

E1 of Doom 1 sucks compared to E2, Almost each level of E2 is memorable where as only a few levels of E1 are memorable. I personally hate E1M3 and E1M7

 

I'm not sure why you dislike E1M3 and E1M7. I find those to be the strongest of E1 along with E1M5. Admittedly E2 isn't that bad, but there are maps that hold it back from being great in my opinion. Refinery feels too short and flat, Command Center is pretty much pointless and lacks flow (there's no reason to go inside most of the rooms and the secret exit is poorly hidden) and the entire red key section of Halls of the Damned is basically a glorified Wolf3D maze. Spawning Vats and Fortress of Mystery are OK but nothing amazing. I like Containment Area and Deimos Lab though.

Edited by Patch93

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21 hours ago, CyberDreams said:

You might want to check what the URL says in your address bar...

It's some dots and numbers. cool

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Posted (edited)

@Patch93

Agreed. Sandy's Doom 2 levels are much much better than his levels in Doom 1. And E1M7 is probably the best level in entire Doom 1 (Including TFC)

Edited by ReaperAA

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Posted (edited)

teh term "retro" in a gaming field means revisiting the systems used in games released on more limited architecture

is it cultural fetishization when atlus releases stuff or just when someone has a picture of megaman on their t-shirt? lol

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Posted (edited)

Early full-3D games are the reason for why the "I don't care about gameplay; I only care about graphics" mentallity became more widespread.

 

Half-Life 2 sucks.

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3 minutes ago, Cacodemon345 said:

Early full-3D games are the reason for why the "I don't care about gameplay; I only care about graphics" mentallity became more widespread.

 

Even though that mentality existed from the very beginning.

 

Many people were amazed by how realistic Doom was for its time, for one.

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1 minute ago, seed said:

 

Even though that mentality existed from the very beginning.

 

Many people were amazed by how realistic Doom was for its time, for one.

That's why I used the "more widespread" term.

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1 minute ago, seed said:

Many people were amazed by how realistic Doom was for its time, for one.

I can only imagine how cool it was with the diminished lighting and genuine 3d appearance and fully textured floors and differing light levels and animated flats...to just like make a rectangular room and walk around like "all these effects are WOOORKINGGG"

 

Nowadays you wouldn't even think about it, its just a blank rectangular room

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Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2019 at 2:08 PM, Ajora said:

I didn't bother with the time-travelling aspect of the game, because I wanted it to be over as quickly as possible. The only enjoyment I got out of it was the race against Metal Sonic. 

 

I too just finished the game. Why bother making it longer? The incentive of Super Sonic has been so secret and unknown to my friends and I that it was never worth exploring or collecting the emeralds which mysteriously aren't all green. I think the race against Metal Sonic was the only sort of challenge or time that I died. Sonic CD was vastly overrated by the 2 people that played it back in the day and it became legendary as one of those things that they had to hype up to justify their purchase.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 2:13 PM, UNERXAi said:

I think classic Sonic as a whole is overrated, although that opinion is not that unpopular nowadays.

 

Agreed. I've played Mario and that just seems vastly better. Sonic felt one dimensional and the early Sonics feel like the developers are trying to punish you for going fast.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 2:22 PM, kristus said:

By being awful and popular at the same time. Everyone follows suit and FPS games are garbage for 2 decades following.

 

I'd wager Half-Life 2 is the bad one that inspired the industry to be linear. That boat segment will break people from playing. I've mentioned this a lot before, but when the game first came out people hated Half-Life 2 for forcing people to get Steam.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 2:36 PM, whirledtsar said:

Commander Keen.

 

Released Dec 1990, followed up with a single episode in 1991, followed up with another release in 1991 and yet another still in 1991. If 4 releases of a single franchise in 12 months doesn't say shovelware, I don't know what does.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 2:44 PM, Ajora said:

While it's true that Half-Life inspired a lot of garbage, it's still by far one of the best games ever made.

 

I enjoyed Half-Life 1 far more than Half-Life 2, and Quake. Then again it came after Quake, so it's understandable. Daikatana came after it too.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 3:54 PM, Mr. Freeze said:

Bioware has never made a truly great game. The closest they got was Mass Effect which was Really Good but not Truly Great.

 

Fallout 1 and 2 are mediocre games with a great setting and 99% of people negatively comparing modern Fallouts to them haven't even played them at depth. 

 

 

Mass Effect 1 was laughably bad and everything that Aliens: Colonial Marines was crucified for.  That Macco tank was silly to drive. My AI comrades were busy shooting at walls.

 

Fallout 1 and 2 are mediocre games, but I think there were just so few games with that setting that they become good to those people that like it. Much like Game of Thrones.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 4:00 PM, UNERXAi said:

DNF is underrated

 

Past the first 2 hours. Yes it is. Aliens: Colonial Marines too is underrated, but still laughably terrible, such as the final boss fight that you can clip through the boss.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 4:17 PM, Noiser said:

I never played SS1 or 2. But from youtube videos I always preferred the SS1 look.
As with Wolf3D clones, I like how colorful and weird some of these older games can be.
 


Btw... E.T. for Atari 2600 is not that bad, just hard to understand - like Raiders of the Lost Ark (by the same author) or Superman.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 8:47 PM, 3saster said:

- Battletoads is the best game on the NES
- Zelda 1 on NES isn't that great
- Zelda 2 on NES is fantastic
- I'm pretty sure Megaman 2 is only considered the best because it's the easiest
- Pokemon Red/Blue aren't great, anyone who says they're the best is purely due to nostalgia
- Warrior Within is the best Prince of Persia game
- Amnesia: the Dark Descent is the most overrated horror game ever

 

Zelda 1 isn't that great and Zelda 2 is indeed fantastic... until you hit the key glitch if you try skipping one of the palaces. Yes Mega Man 2 is only the best because it's the easiest. Amnesia the Dark Descent is indeed overrated.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 11:33 PM, Ajora said:

 

That's just not true though. Mega Man 2's popularity is roughly tied with Mega Man X's. If it wasn't for the childhood nostalgia I have for Mega Man 2, my favourite would probably be either 3 or Street Fighter x Mega Man.

 

About 20% of these opinions are widely held opinions. 

 

Mega Man 2 was widely popular long before Mega Man X. 3 is good and well any indie game is always better than the source material, because Indie games can take as long as they like and do whatever they like.

 

UNPOPULAR RETRO OPINION:
 - Sonic 4: Episode 1 is awesome and the homing attack helps to speed things up from the slow Sonic gameplay.

 - Daikatana's episode 2 was good and should have started the game.

 - Street Fighter 2 was slow and vastly overrated.

 - Super Off Road actually has an ending... that kicks you to the game over screen. Apparently Youtubers say it has no ending.

 - Dragon Warrior 3 is better than Final Fantasy 1

 - Blaster Master is a bad game with bad enemy placement

 - Star Fox isn't fun

 - Excitebike and Kung-Fu are not classics, they're quick.

 - Donkey Kong Country 1 is vastly superior to 2... because it's more enjoyable, less frustrating, and far easier. It's as if Rare wanted people to enjoy the game. The same reason that SMB1 is better than SMB Lost Levels.

 - Kid Icarus is a terrible game in the early stages. Death pits! Everything is a death pit!

 - Contra 1 is talked about to be so hard, but it's the easiest of the hard games. Anyone play Gradius 1 or even Super C?

 - Super Mario Kart 64 is a dull, uninspired game that relies on having friends around.

 - Games that rely on you to play with friends will always be more enjoyable, because you have friends around. If you didn't enjoy being around your friends, you wouldn't be with them.

 - Rubber banding is a necessary evil. You either get challenged and get back into the game, or you'll have less fun and enjoyment.

 - Final Fantasy 7 is boring... so boring and VASTLY overrated. I say that as a person who likes old school RPGs.

 - 2D sprites look far better than the low polygon era of N64 and Playstation

 - Donkey Kong is a bad game. The walking animations stay, even when you've stopped moving.

 - Old school RPGs are more of a relaxing time sink than a game.

 - Role playing games is actually meant to be roll playing games as in role the dice. You can fight me about this.

 

GOOGLE'S POPULAR OPINION THAT I SWEAR IS UNPOPULAR:
I Google'd best NES game and best SNES game!

 - Mario Bros (not SMB, just the normal is the #1 best game)

 - Mega Man 5 and 6 are better than Mega Man 2

 - Mega Man 7 is better than Mega Man X

 

I have saved this doozy for the past few days and kept adding to it.

Edited by geo

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You’re wrong, geo! I’ve done the research and conducted some super mega scientific studies and the results were clear: Donkey Kong, Street Fighter 2 and Star Fox are all great, and Lost Levels and DKC2 are welcome additions because they’re like what Thy Flesh Consumed is for Doom, in theory anyway. The same material expanded on with a substantially higher skill requirement. Lost Levels is a bit overboard I must say.. but the reward is great, 4 whole worlds of bonus content. That’s the kind of stuff that gets paywalled these days!

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- Mario, Sonic, and Pokemon games are overrated.

 

I have played a few NES games back when I was a kid and honestly I don't see why so many people like them. Yeah, there's good stuff out there, but nothing that really justifies their popularity IMO.

 

Also, I have the impression that when people usually say overrated what they actually mean is "said to be good but it's garbage" instead of "not that good as it's said to be".

 

Speaking of NES games, wish I'd play more of these tbh, but I have no idea what :v .

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

You’re wrong, geo! I’ve done the research and conducted some super mega scientific studies and the results were clear: Donkey Kong, Street Fighter 2 and Star Fox are all great, and Lost Levels and DKC2 are welcome additions because they’re like what Thy Flesh Consumed is for Doom, in theory anyway. The same material expanded on with a substantially higher skill requirement. Lost Levels is a bit overboard I must say.. but the reward is great, 4 whole worlds of bonus content. That’s the kind of stuff that gets paywalled these days!

The Flesh Consumed was just an episode that included the original! Imagine... Doom 1, but 3 new episodes! We can call it the Lost Levels!

 

Speaking of Lost Levels, I was quite amazed that my cousins that literally don't play video games other than Mario 1, 3, World and Mario Karts... were able to get through Lost Levels! We also had an 8 second rule. If you die under 8 seconds you get to keep going.

 

Other unpopular retro opinions!

 - Everything you loved is wrong!

 - Witches shouldn't be burned!

 - SMB: Lost Levels needed to be rejected for the US, not for being too difficult, but for being too lazily constructed with old assets! What is this level of laziness? DOOM or Dragon Quest?

Edited by geo

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Posted (edited)

I'm aware that this isn't so much an unpopular opinion as it is one that everyone seems split 50/50 on, but I think PlayStation games look better than N64 games. The artwork is just much more cleanly preserved on PS1 whereas the limited texture memory of the N64 combined with its filtering means that a lot of games that aren't colourful 3D platformers look much worse. I also quite like the grittier, more pixelated style. A game like Spyro just looks far better in terms of colour palette, geometry and art than Super Mario 64 IMO.

The biggest strike against the PS1's graphics in my eyes is the polygon oddities like wobbling and some objects appearing in front of things they should be behind (happens more rarely, but still).

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5 hours ago, geo said:

2D sprites look far better than the low polygon era of N64 and Playstation

I personally don't really see this as an unpopular opinion as i feel that a lot of people feel this way hence why there were (and still are) a ton of Indie games with this look.

 

3 hours ago, geo said:

Other unpopular retro opinions!

 - Everything you loved is wrong!

This is true to a certain extent. Everyone has opinions and they all differ which is why this topic exists ;)

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Posted (edited)

On the subject of SMB2J, sixfortyfive wrote an excellent post on neogaf defending the game:

 

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/super-mario-bros-2-needs-to-serve-as-the-inspiration-for-the-next-mario-platformer.499596/post-44286986

 

Frankly, I'm inclined to agree with him. NoA definitely made the right choice in localizing Doki Doki Panic instead back then, but that doesn't make The Lost Levels a bad game either.

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