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MeetyourUnmaker

unpopular retro opinions

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45 minutes ago, DuckReconMajor said:

My dad saw Heretic 2 in the store years ago and picked it up. I took one look at it and was like "this looks dumb". I guess I should've given it a fair chance. I don't remember how far he got into the game.

 

Heretic 2 was really close to great. I think it still controlled a bit too much like a FPS despite having a third person perspective.

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15 hours ago, chemo said:

It baffles me that people want a single-player reboot of that series. It seems completely unnecessary when the current DOOM series exists. What the hell would a new Quake do to differentiate itself in ways that please people?

I agree. The newer Doom games seem to have a lot of Quake features in them such as the jumping and movement so i have no idea what a new Quake game would do to make itself different.

 

9 hours ago, gamevoin said:

Why does no one mention Heretic 2? I think it's the best out of the Hexeretic "series", even if it is third person.

That's probably why. It was the only one in the series that wasn't an FPS. I'm assuming most people took one look at it and were like "fuck this". I know i'm not very interested in it just because of that aspect even though i do know that it's a fairly good game. Just not my style.

 

8 hours ago, Cynical said:

Also, let's be real, Quake Champions fucking sucked, and having proper Quake deathmatch back would be lovely.

^This so much.

 

4 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

But there are some more unpopular opinions from me:

- Daikatana is a decent game after using unofficial 1.3 patch and playing without companions.

So i've heard. I bought Daikatana for $0.97 during the holidays Steam sale so when i finally get around to playing it i'll install that patch :)

 

3 hours ago, EtherBot said:

-System Shock 1 is the greatest game with the word Shock in it, and you're all just too scared to try it out because of the controls

 

-Bioshock 2 is the second best game with Shock in the title.

 

-The worst game with Shock in the title is Bioshock

 

Yeah. I bought System Shock 1 on Steam but i feel like i have to read the damn manual front to back 3x or at least a guide before playing it. The game seriously looks amazing as does the concept but it also seems really technical to play, even if there is a source port out now that can help that aspect. It's just one of those games that i feel you need to at least know how to play or figure out a decent set-up first i guess.

 

I've noticed that a lot of people who like the System Shock series totally hate the Bioshock series. I played Bioshock 1 on PS3 (when mine still worked) and i liked it quite a bit. It's not my favorite game in the whole world but it was quite good imo. I never played any other one though. I read that the second one wasn't made by the same people or something so i said "fuck it" and never bothered with it. 

 

I also have had System Shock 2 on Steam for quite a while now as it was free some time ago. But since it's a sequel i never bothered to play it (if that even matters). It also looks sort of complicated as well although less so then the first. I've still yet to play Deus Ex as well although i did install it and do the fixes for it.

Edited by CyberDreams

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1 hour ago, Maes said:

All that game seems to have going for it is that it created a toxic "1337/n00b/w4ll h4x0r/scrub/cheat0rz" game culture around it, countless of Flash parodies of the latter, and that's about it.

 

Truth has been spoken.

 

4 hours ago, EtherBot said:

-Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs is really good. It isnt just "worth consideration" its a downright masterpiece. People who say its barely a sequel to The Dark Descent clearly didn't have a very solid grasp on that game aside from it being "scary."

 

My problem with it (having played it recently), is that it's simply not as scary and oppressive as the original, not to mention that it misses the surprise factor (the moment the lamp starts blinking, you know what's going to happen).

 

It's decent, but it could have worked much better as an expansion than a separate entry in the series.

 

@CyberDreams "I also have had System Shock 2 on Steam for quite a while now as it was free some time ago. But since it's a sequel i never bothered to play it (if that even matters). It also looks sort of complicated as well although less so then the first. I've still yet to play Deus Ex as well although i did install it and do the fixes for it."

 

There's no problem in playing SS2 first because both games play very differently, they have something different to offer. If you like SS2 you'll most likely love Deus Ex as well. In fact I like Deus Ex more because the combat and movement/physics were better than the floaty/clunkyness of SS2.

Edited by seed

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This isn't an unpopular opinion as much as it is a personal anecdote. 

 

I had a blast playing Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game at my arcade back in the day. Yes, the game objectively shit. It's poorly designed, has bad hit detection, and is all kinds of broken. But it's broken in a fun way, and if you learn how to exploit the game's sloppy programming, you can wreck your opponents without them knowing what hit them.

 

I remember there was this one guy who must've challenged me for at least 10 straight games and lost every one of them. When it was over, he slammed his hands against the deck, yelled out and literally kicked me in my ass before storming out of the arcade. I was greatly amused by this. Nobody could touch me at Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game. I was the king. I was the best. 

Edited by Ajora

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I've always felt that linear levels are better than non-linear ones. you don't get sidetracked very often and you don't end up running around in circles, all obstacles you're supposed to face are packed in one, straight but enjoyable ride.

 

oh, opinion I guess :P

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40 minutes ago, Ajora said:

I was greatly amused by this. Nobody could touch me at Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game. I was the king. I was the best. 

I've had a similar experience (minus the literal ass kicking) with Mortal Kombat 3 and Tokyo Wars, back in the day :)

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2 hours ago, Ajora said:

This isn't an unpopular opinion as much as it is a personal anecdote. 

 

I had a blast playing Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game at my arcade back in the day. Yes, the game objectively shit. It's poorly designed, has bad hit detection, and is all kinds of broken. But it's broken in a fun way, and if you learn how to exploit the game's sloppy programming, you can wreck your opponents without them knowing what hit them.

  

I remember there was this one guy who must've challenged me for at least 10 straight games and lost every one of them. When it was over, he slammed his hands against the deck, yelled out and literally kicked me in my ass before storming out of the arcade. I was greatly amused by this. Nobody could touch me at Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game. I was the king. I was the best. 

 

I was actually disappointed when I bought SFTM for PlayStation and it wasn't the same as the arcade version. I wanted the broken at home, dammit.

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7 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

- Daikatana is a decent game after using unofficial 1.3 patch and playing without companions.

Have it in my Steam library, been meaning to play it for a while. Every review I've seen just says it sucks because the companions are awful, which to be fair, it seems they are, but remove the companions and the game looks really good. If anything, over-ambition and poor management seem to be what ruined the game.

 

7 hours ago, EtherBot said:

-Silent Hill 3 is pretty scary but its plot isn't interesting or investing at all until the final two fifths of play where you actually go to Silent Hill.

SH3 > SH2 IMO, though this isn't an extremely rare opinion AFAIK. SH2 has too much ammo, enemies that are not threatening, has a lack of enemy variety, and there is no reason to ever turn off the flashlight. James is too derpy as well most of the time. In other words, SH3 is much better from a gameplay perspective IMO.

SH3 is better IMO, because it doesn't have the problems mentioned above, and the style of horror in the game is much more intense and oppressive. I'd describe SH2 as "wet and dead", and SH3 as "hot and organic". This applies in all facets of the games, from the music to the enemy design, and I am aware that all of this was deliberate. I don't believe SH2 is overrated, in fact its praise is very well-deserved; I just believe SH3 is underrated.

I will agree that SH3's pacing is very slow until you start going to Silent Hill, but I think it makes up for this with some of its characters. Vincent and Heather in particular are really good characters I think. I wonder why Heather doesn't pop up more often in discussions of female characters; she is a female character where the fact that she is female is important (unlike say, Samus, who might as well be a guy) and isn't played for sex appeal (unlike say, Lara Croft). She is an extremely believable teenage girl IMO.

 

23 hours ago, deepthaw said:

 

Probably the same people who get angry when Zero Punctuation shits on a game they like. I *enjoy* it when he talks smack about a game I like, because I can usually chuckle and say "he does have a point there."

I'm pretty sure that's why he doesn't give a review score in his reviews; his videos are exaggerated versions of what he thought of the game. I especially love his incredibly bizarre analogies/metaphors ("I was more on board than a superglue enthusiast cheating at a surfboard competition!"). My only complaint is that it sometimes he doesn't seem to like any game, and is too jaded.

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Having Daikatana popping up a few times in this thread actually made me start watching a playthrough of it and so far this game seems to be pretty damn interesting. I wonder how it changes down the road but for a first impression, it's rather fascinating.

 

If it stays at least decent til the end, I might end up getting it as some point, and perhaps unironically enjoy the game.

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Resident Evil was garbage when it came out, and why it got popular still baffles me to this day.
Zombies? Boring. Jump scares? Cheap. Shitty control scheme? wut.

I can understand the control scheme being weird in Silent Hill since you are a regular joe but in RE you're a fucking cop/special agent/whatever it is. It shouldn't be cumbersome to move around and aim your weapon. You were trained for this. Come on.

 

Zelda never stood out to me in any way at all. It always felt uninspired to me, nothing about the story stood out to me as 'great'. Very plain aesthetic, too aimed at children (imo), and I was exposed to it as a child. That being said, LttP is the best entry in the series to me to this day. Link's Awakening was an interesting story, different from the usual 'get the triforce, stop Ganon, save the princess' shtick and overall felt like its own thing. I appreciated that.

 

On the subject of Nintendo, for how much people complain about other developers 'reusing assets' or being lazy, Nintendo has had the same formula with Mario for decades and you never hear people bitch about it. Still Bowser. Still mushrooms, and goombas, and...whatever the fuck. 2D, 3D, all the game are the fucking same. Yet CoD is the king of rehashes? (Not that I am defending CoD; that's still garbage) Mario Kart doesn't count, of course, since they actually did something different there but it's still nothing to write home about.

 

FF7 is a hot convoluted mess that was ugly back then completely fell apart after disc 1 ended. Picks up again near the end of the third disc, but it fails to capitalize on the final area by giving it a stupid song and making it dull and cumbersome to traverse.

 

Half Life's most interesting aspect is its creature design, nothing more.

 

Been a while since I thought of these, if I remember anything else I'll jot it down.

 

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19 minutes ago, seed said:

Having Daikatana popping up a few times in this thread actually made me start watching a playthrough of it and so far this game seems to be pretty damn interesting. I wonder how it changes down the road but for a first impression, it's rather fascinating.

 

If it stays at least decent til the end, I might end up getting it as some point, and perhaps unironically enjoy the game.

 

Daikatana is fun if you play it with the fan patch. 

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32 minutes ago, seed said:

Having Daikatana popping up a few times in this thread actually made me start watching a playthrough of it and so far this game seems to be pretty damn interesting. I wonder how it changes down the road but for a first impression, it's rather fascinating.

 

If it stays at least decent til the end, I might end up getting it as some point, and perhaps unironically enjoy the game.

 

If by chance u ever get to try out Daikatana, make sure that u use the unofficial 1.3 fan patch. It fixes a lot of issues with the game. Also make sure that u manage to get pass Episode 1 (Episode 1 is actually the worst episode of Daikatana). Things get much better after it.

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6 hours ago, CyberDreams said:

I've noticed that a lot of people who like the System Shock series totally hate the Bioshock series. I played Bioshock 1 on PS3 (when mine still worked) and i liked it quite a bit. It's not my favorite game in the whole world but it was quite good imo. I never played any other one though. I read that the second one wasn't made by the same people or something so i said "fuck it" and never bothered with it. 

 

Bioshock 2 is now regarded as one of the better bioshock games by a large portion of the fan base, especially the DLC (minerva's den) it got which many say is the best in thing in the series. You might've missed a game you would've loved for no reason.

Edited by Pegg

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Already know you loathe 2 and hold infinite on a holy grail. Deal with it 2 isn't considered a bad game by the majority of the fan base nor the general public. Opposite of bioshock infinite, which is more praised for having Elizabeth than anything else in the game.

Edited by Pegg

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12 hours ago, EtherBot said:

-The worst game with Shock in the title is Bioshock

Oh that's cute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creature_Shock

 

Now seriously, Bioshock has NOTHING of an immersive sim, it's just some shooter. Which disgusts me as it was supposed to be a spiritual successor to the Shock saga. And I guess the same about Bioshock 2 and 3

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-Dark Forces, Dark Forces II and Mysteries of the Sith are really underrated and better than a lot of the popular FPS from the 90's.

 

-Atari 2600 games are still fun to play (especially Activision ones).

 

-Ass Portal is the best game made by Valve.

 

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Starcraft is a bad strategy game/s. It's more micro and speed focused.

 

The classic strategy genre like C&C is dated and boring hence why we don't see many of them.

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7 hours ago, Black Star said:

It shouldn't be cumbersome to move around and aim your weapon. You were trained for this. Come on.

That's a difference between the Western vs. Japanese version -- Japanese version has the auto-aim that Gamecube REmake has.  It was removed in the west because it was in that era of "let's make random arbitrary changes to the western versions of games!"

 

(Also, Resi is less about jump scares than Silent Hill is.  The whole "Silent Hill is the psychological/smart one!" is revisionism.)

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16 hours ago, CyberDreams said:

I've noticed that a lot of people who like the System Shock series totally hate the Bioshock series.

That's an opinion I've also seen floating around. I wouldn't say I represent it, though. Whether something is an immersive sim or not isn't really that concerning to me (i personally think bioshock 1 and 2 qualify), but I could really go on and on to you about the plot of Bioshock being a complete mess, at least imho. The story spends almost 100% of its narrative real-estate on themes of capitalism, industrialism, and randian objectivism, only to throw a curveball about how the game was, all along, about....free will, I guess.

 

What on earth is the hypnotism twist, aside from truly being unexpected, supposed to have to do with anything that came before. Randian objectivism isn't concerned with free will.

 

"Well you see, EtherBot, thats because its a video game, so technically you never had any free will to begi-"

 

Randian objectivism isnt concerned with video games either!! How on earth does that make it better? Bioshock slowly ramps up all of these ideas and themes and decides to drop all of that to instead be about just how linear video games are????

 

Bioshock isn't even linear! It's probably one of the most open ended yet directly story driven games ever made, at least on release, and it has three endings.

 

I'm ranting now, so I'm gonna cut myself off. But yeah I find it all really absurd and unfocused. It bothers me how immature our industry is that me criticizing Bioshock is seen, every time I bring it up, as total contrarianism for the sake of it. I think its fun and immersive, sure, but if Bioshock really is one of the best video game stories ever told, video game storytelling has a lot of growing up to do.

 

15 hours ago, seed said:

My problem with it (having played it recently), is that it's simply not as scary and oppressive as the original, not to mention that it misses the surprise factor (the moment the lamp starts blinking, you know what's going to happen).

 

It's decent, but it could have worked much better as an expansion than a separate entry in the series.

Obviously the Doom community isn't the place to go to talk about story and theming (except, i suppose, once a movie comes and suddenly everyone cares about the story of Doom being represented the way they prefer) but I'm not sure how to respond since you're essentially rephrasing my counter argument directly to me:

15 hours ago, seed said:

People who say its barely a sequel to The Dark Descent clearly didn't have a very solid grasp on that game aside from it being "scary."

 

Amnesia is a story about what it takes to take a man and slowly strip him of his humanity. aMfP is also this, but whereas the first game essentially placed the blame on Daniel's own guilt and fear, and the slow indoctrination of Alexander, the second game pans back to show that the world in general is a system designed to rob people people of their humanity. Whether you're a wealthy industrialist, willfully giving up your humanity (much like Daniel did), in order to continue on your path to success, or you're a common man, your humanity stolen from you by a large, interconnected and uncaring system. The pigs, then, are a metaphor for a man without the humanity, human in his flesh, sure, but broken. Your great machine is a microcosm of industrialism and capitalism at large.

 

That's just one facet of the game's meaning. There's a theme of sacrifice in the first game, when its necessary and when its evil, and whether its ever the first or always the second, expanded on through the lost mexican temples and the Machine which runs on the corpses of pigmen. Your own children are sacrificed, but you sacrifice them for the sake of, in your perspective, preserving their humanity, and the game doubles backwards to call out the hypocrisy and terror of that action.

 

The ways it riffs on the themes of the first game are stupidly fascinating to me and its all so well layered and crafted. It's genuinely ridiculous to me that someone could play aMfP and walk away with their only take away being that the flashlight was too useful. It shows how laser focused the gaming community it, and it honestly pisses me off sometimes.

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12 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

If by chance u ever get to try out Daikatana, make sure that u use the unofficial 1.3 fan patch. It fixes a lot of issues with the game. Also make sure that u manage to get pass Episode 1 (Episode 1 is actually the worst episode of Daikatana). Things get much better after it.

 

Yeah, I'm definitely going to use that patch, seems literally everyone says it's a must. And if it gets better later on, that's awesome because I generally already liked what I have seen of Episode 1 last night.

 

30 minutes ago, EtherBot said:

Obviously the Doom community isn't the place to go to talk about story and theming (except, i suppose, once a movie comes and suddenly everyone cares about the story of Doom being represented the way they prefer) but I'm not sure how to respond since you're essentially rephrasing my counter argument directly to me

 

I am not sure why you bring that up, when did I ever say "I don't care about the story and theming in that game", especially since I love a good story in games? Don't put words in my mouth (unless I actually said that at some point and I completely forgot since).

 

The only thing that kind of grinded my gears in Machine for Pigs were the mechanics, which like them or not, are indeed simply dumbed down. Dark Descent almost made me shit bricks on top of that, with its unpredictability, oppressive atmosphere, and a chase music you'd probably only hear in your nightmares, no such thing can be said about the sequel. I loved how the game made it clear that the biggest enemy in that game was none other than myself by playing mind games on me.

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1 minute ago, seed said:

I am not sure why you bring that up, when did I ever say "I don't care about the story and theming in that game", especially since I love a good story in games?

Sorry if I offended. That wasn't a direct response to you, it was a disclaimer haha. I was about to go into some like (pretty surface level) story analysis of a game that I can't even be sure everyone who might look at my post has played, let alone be remotely interested in, considering, like i said, the doom community isn't inherently one that particularly values strong storytelling in games.

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8 hours ago, Chezza said:

Starcraft is a bad strategy game/s. It's more micro and speed focused.

 

Kekekekeke Zerg rush pwn zomg

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12 hours ago, Pegg said:

 

Bioshock 2 is now regarded as one of the better bioshock games by a large portion of the fan base, especially the DLC (minerva's den) it got which many say is the best in thing in the series. You might've missed a game you would've loved for no reason.

Alright, thanks for the tip! I know that they remastered the first 2 for some reason and those ones often go on sale for quite cheap so maybe i'll pick 'em up one day and play through 'em as it's been years. I think the last time i played the first one was around 2011 when i bought my PS3.

 

14 hours ago, Black Star said:

Nintendo has had the same formula with Mario for decades and you never hear people bitch about it. Still Bowser. Still mushrooms, and goombas, and...whatever the fuck. 2D, 3D, all the game are the fucking same. Yet CoD is the king of rehashes? (Not that I am defending CoD; that's still garbage)

I know right? Nintendo gets away with everything and no one complains one bit! I think it's mainly nostalgia though. I mean, if i could have the same amazing game series' but with just slightly updated graphics and whatnot every other year or so i'd be happy as pie too.

 

18 hours ago, seed said:

 

@CyberDreams "I also have had System Shock 2 on Steam for quite a while now as it was free some time ago. But since it's a sequel i never bothered to play it (if that even matters). It also looks sort of complicated as well although less so then the first. I've still yet to play Deus Ex as well although i did install it and do the fixes for it."

 

There's no problem in playing SS2 first because both games play very differently, they have something different to offer. If you like SS2 you'll most likely love Deus Ex as well. In fact I like Deus Ex more because the combat and movement/physics were better than the floaty/clunkyness of SS2.

Alright, that's kind of what i was thinking. Thanks for the tips/info!

 

10 hours ago, UNERXAi said:

-Dark Forces, Dark Forces II and Mysteries of the Sith are really underrated and better than a lot of the popular FPS from the 90's.

 

The Dark Forces series is amazing imo even though i never did get around to playing the expansion for DF II. Just like everyone else, i'm still dreaming for a good source port for the first one.

 

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19 hours ago, CyberDreams said:

The game seriously looks amazing as does the concept but it also seems really technical to play, even if there is a source port out now that can help that aspect.

With the source port its...about as technical to play as SS2. The control scheme is pretty much the same just with less keyboard shortcuts (but you can probably bind those if you want...just not my cup of tea)

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I have some more opinions (both retro and not-so retro):

- Mass Effect 2 is good but way too overrated. Mass Effect 3 is better than 2 (except for the ending of course).

- Duke3d is not just better but miles better than both Blood and Shadow Warrior. Duke3d has the most fair combat. No stupid cultists and shadow ninjas. The level design is also better, especially compared to SW(which had bullshit levels). Duke3d also has jetpack 😎.

- Quake 1's mission pack "Scourge of Armagon" is better than the base Quake.

- DUSK never managed to impress me. It's mainly because of the asthetics and the forced butt-ugly low polycount. Ion Maiden (or whatever it would be called in future) looks much superior asthetically.

 

- Doom 2 > Heretic (with Wayfarer's tome) > UDoom > Heretic (vanilla) > Hexen

Heretic is not as great as Doom 2, but it is still really good game. The combat actually becomes A LOT better and less grindy with Wayfarer's Tome (a balance mod for Heretic) to a point where it actually feels better than Doom 1. The level design (atleast from the first 3 episodes) is also better than Doom 1's level design.

Hexen is a very different beast from both Doom and Heretic. The visuals and engine capabilities are much much superior to Heretic. The hub system is very interesting. 3 character system is also interesting. However I feel that Hexen would have been better off by being more like Doom/Heretic in gameplay. Hexen's bestiary is atleast on par with Heretic's. But its is underutilized in Hexen. Wendigos are almost never used after Hub 1. Dark Bishop are only encountered from Hub 3 onwards. Reivers are only used in Hub 5. Stalkers are swamps only enemy. Death Wyvern is only encountered once. Bosses are also disappointing. Heresiarchs are annoying because of their shields. And Korax is a joke. D'Sparil shits all over him.

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I dunno, ME3's destroy ending is good. I don't believe ME2 is overrated at all and found it an overall better experience than ME3, however I think ME3 was better overall than ME1.

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16 hours ago, Black Star said:

On the subject of Nintendo, for how much people complain about other developers 'reusing assets' or being lazy, Nintendo has had the same formula with Mario for decades and you never hear people bitch about it. Still Bowser. Still mushrooms, and goombas, and...whatever the fuck. 2D, 3D, all the game are the fucking same. Yet CoD is the king of rehashes? (Not that I am defending CoD; that's still garbage) Mario Kart doesn't count, of course, since they actually did something different there but it's still nothing to write home about.

 

Interestingly, I had read more or less the same complaint in a 1991 or 1992 Greek gaming magazine, covering the first official Nintendo imports into the country, in particular directed at Super Mario Land for the SNES: "Aren't we tired of making the Mario brothers stomping mushrooms(sic) already? What does this guy Mario have going for him anyway? Not many girls would be impressed seeing him, after all. He's just some guy mixing cement (sic!) who steps on mushrooms, that's who he is..."

 

And yet, they added "However, Super Mario Land for the SNES has been called THE most perfectly coded game ever" and then they went on extolling the merits of SML.  So, the take-home point here would be that yes, the character is always the same (he was and is Nintendo's mascot, after), but Nintendo (at least in the past) always managed to pull some technically impressive feat and pack it in a "killer app" for its systems, especially at release. And Mario was onboard the whole time.

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1 hour ago, Avoozl said:

I dunno, ME3's destroy ending is good.

 

Destroy Ending is the only decent ending.

 

1 hour ago, Avoozl said:

I don't believe ME2 is overrated at all and found it an overall better experience than ME3

 

I won't argue with ur opinion (especially since ur opinion is actually the more popular one). But I like ME3 more because:

- The combat in ME3 allows more freedom than ME2. ME2 is pretty much wall/cover hugging on harder difficulties.

- More abilities and combos possible. ME2 has very limited ability skill trees.

- Weapon upgrade levels and mods are back.

- Better player stamina and running speed.

- Crew in Normandy feel much more lively. They occasionally move from place to place instead of staying on exactly one same spot throughout the game.

- Much more side activities and games on Citadel if u have Citadel DLC (This DLC is a must imho).

- No dumb "launching probe, probe launched" activity.

 

1 hour ago, Avoozl said:

however I think ME3 was better overall than ME1.

 

This I agree. ME1 has the best setting but its gameplay has really really aged.

Edited by ReaperAA

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