Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Nekr0s1s

i'm losing my joy of watching movies.

Recommended Posts

^ well put!

 

people get used to the allegorical style they first encountered in media and for a lot of people it's reagan-era action films that contain zero self scrutiny

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/8/2019 at 5:36 PM, Mr. Freeze said:

 

All art is political and movies have been outwardly political for a looooong time. It's not a legitimate bone to pick with contemporary media. 

 

On 6/8/2019 at 8:23 PM, Mr. Freeze said:

 

OP's argument ("superhero and modern action movies are too political") is typically uttered by one specific type of moviegoer, who usually can't recognize political messages in films unless they disagree with said messages. Said moviegoer will typically complain about the "good old days" before "SJWs/feminists/liberals" overtook the industry and started cranking out "left-wing propaganda". The blindness of these people is laughable. 

 

yes, it is a legitimate complaint. there have always been political statements and references in media, but in the past, this was done with restraint and proportionality, so that art & storytelling were the priority. ever since Current Year began in 2014, this has changed drastically. not just film, but much of our entertainment media has been taken over by a certain political ideology and its aggressive preaching. whole swaths of our media are mainly propaganda, with entertainment as a secondary purpose at best.

 

I guess it's easy to ignore this if you're sympathetic to the ideology being proselytized, but there's no denying that the role of politics in media is very different than it used to be.

 

3 hours ago, Nymbus_Hustle said:

 

How is Ghostbusters 2016 remotely political aside from having all female leads?

Movies in the past were so much more directly political than they are today. Have any of you seen a Charlie Chaplin film? Blade Runner? Cannibal Holocaust? American Psycho? The Bee movie even??

I can agree that politics can bloat a film, but the thing is, is that most films like Star Wars make a minor theme out of contemporary politics.

Also, isn't it weird you complain about Star Wars being political when the themes and plot of the whole series cover politics?

 

To be fair, any work can have politics read into it, even Shrek and someone has politically analyzed the flick. This is because art always has a cultural context and because of this art always in some ways crosses into the political.

 

Ghostbusters 2016 was structured entirely around feminism and scoring woke points, and this was done at the expense of the original material. this applies not just to the use of female leads (with a male secretary, no less), but the rest of the movie as well.

 

while all the other films you mentioned had political dimensions, this was done with tact, and with a priority on art & storytelling. that is, assuming your reference to Star Wars was to the Original Trilogy and not the new movies. I don't know how anyone can watch The Last Jedi and claim that the blatant ideology shoved down the viewer's throat is a 'minor theme' (it was also a soul-suckingly terrible movie, but that's an aside).

 

all this goes back to my main point: there's a difference between political messaging and all-out propaganda, and recent entertainment media is dominated by propaganda.

 

~~~

 

OP: there's still good stuff out there, it's just harder to find. for example, Alita Battle Angel was a quality action movie. if it gets a low critics score but a high audience score on rotten tomatoes, that's a very good sign. you can also go back to the classics -- not too long ago, I rewatched the Star Wars OT (harmy's despecialized) and some of Akira Kurosawa's work. it's nice to be reminded of what it's like to watch an actually good film, too easy to forget nowadays.

Share this post


Link to post

Having watched Ghostbusters 2016, I can attest to there being precisely zero feminist elements in the film. None of the female characters were treated differently for being women. None of the female characters ever made an issue about being women. Everyone was on equal footing.

 

On the flip side of that, the movie Hidden Figures was about three overqualified women of colour struggling to rise above the glass ceiling so they could help NASA win the space race. Saying that the movie contains feminist elements would not be incorrect, but it was brilliantly acted, inspiring, and above all else; highly entertaining. So if someone were to lambast it just for being a feminist movie, why should I respect such a narrow-minded sentiment? 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Ajora said:

Having watched Ghostbusters 2016, I can attest to there being precisely zero feminist elements in the film. None of the female characters were treated differently for being women. None of the female characters ever made an issue about being women. Everyone was on equal footing.

 

 

I haven't seen GB 2016 tbh, which is why I didn't reply however, I was very skeptical that he didn't give any examples. Honestly, I remember people saying the trailer was feminist, even though there's absolutely nothing political ab it. 

I should check Hidden Figures out, sounds like an interesting movie.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ajora said:

Having watched Ghostbusters 2016, I can attest to there being precisely zero feminist elements in the film. None of the female characters were treated differently for being women. None of the female characters ever made an issue about being women. Everyone was on equal footing.

 

On the flip side of that, the movie Hidden Figures was about three overqualified women of colour struggling to rise above the glass ceiling so they could help NASA win the space race. Saying that the movie contains feminist elements would not be incorrect, but it was brilliantly acted, inspiring, and above all else; highly entertaining. So if someone were to lambast it just for being a feminist movie, why should I respect such a narrow-minded sentiment? 

 

first, why were they made female? not that I have anything against women in action roles, that can definitely work, as evidenced by Kill Bill and its resounding success. but the Ghostbusters were always dudes, and I can't think of any reason for the gender swap other than ideology. this is confirmed by Chris Hemsworth playing the stereotypical 'dumb, attractive secretary' role, which is consistent with reversing gender roles purely for the sake of doing so. it's further confirmed by the negative portrayal of male characters in the film, and the fact that they save the day by

Spoiler

shooting a giant ghost in the dick

like really? that seems like a slapstick way of saying "fuck you, patriarchy!". I could disregard one of these elements by themselves, but taken together, it's sending a message.

 

then of course, there was the whole battle with the fans, as longtime Ghostbusters fans complained about the film, said they never asked for this, stop ruining Ghostbusters, we're boycotting, etc. the response to the backlash was to double-down and call the fans a bunch of pathetic losers (one of the actresses literally said this on TV). compare this to the infamous Sonic movie (now coming out next year). when the internet relentlessly criticized/mocked the character design, they didn't flip the bird, but course-corrected and made changes. there's a big difference there.

above all else, hostility to the fans is a key indicator that they're not in it to create art and entertain an audience; rather, they care about ideological orthodoxy and converting the heathens to their woke religion, and anyone who objects is treated as a class enemy.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Xcalibur said:

irst, why were they made female? not that I have anything against women in action roles, that can definitely work, as evidenced by Kill Bill and its resounding success. but the Ghostbusters were always dudes,

 

So what? What dictates that a story that once was told with male characters cannot be told with different persons that just happen to be female?

Actually my main problem with this film wasn't that the cast was female but that I cannot stand Melissa McCarthy. That alone ruined it for me.

I think this case just highlights one big problem with moviegoers which is also the root cause for the declining quality with ever more increasing budgets:

 

Most people do not want change, they want more of the same, and more of the same and more...

And that's precisely what the studios are producing mostly, regurgitating the same shit over and over and over again, bigger and 'better'.

At some time it just gets boring.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

So what? What dictates that a story that once was told with male characters cannot be told with different persons that just happen to be female?

 

Nothing, but the problem here is the reason behind the change. Was there a good reason for such a change, like a desire to completely re-tell the story, or was it just for the sake of pushing a political agenda forward?

 

If it's the latter, then the backlash is warranted, people want meaningful changes, not changes done for the sake of promoting an ideology.

Share this post


Link to post

Hmm, I sort of disagree with OP.  Good guy is the goodiest and the bad guy is the baddiest, good kills bad, gets the girl the end see you in the sequel! was never my thing.   The increase in moral complexity in blockbuster films (as seen on TV too) is one of the changes I do like in recent cinema. And I don't think it's the politics that are causing films to be crap. Other than the risk avoidance you mention: Remake! Sequel! Franchise!  I think the average blockbuster is if anything a little better. Looking back to the 80s and 90s, the cultural filtering has been done -- the best stuff floats to the top, everything looks better in retrospect because the utter garbage that was actually out most of the time has sunk beneath memory.

 

Buuuut I do prefer it when political messaging is more deftly handled as subtext rather than gracelessly thrust in your face in 'net friendly neatly packaged chunks.

 

In this climate, it makes sense to take the overt route.  I read so many reviews which drearily descend through the political checklist before even getting to what a film is actually like qua film.  As long as things are being consumed so much through the prism of political values, it's a good way to generate buzz. Not only that, but a thorough job ticking those boxes can also help critically, with politically sympathetic corners reluctant to bag on something that appears to be fighting the good fight.

 

And that's my main issue. This focus on making the right gestures can act as a fig leaf masking a decline in quality, imagination and risk-taking.   The aim should be first to succeed as art or entertainment in itself, and much of the time political values just don't weigh there.

 

@nekr0s1s how'd you get on with the recommendations in this thread?

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

how is 'women can play the same roles as men' even remotely 'political' in anything more than a broad-strokes 'equality' message?

i must say ive yet to see anyone argue a point more coherent than 'i dont want to see women in mah male roles' and that strikes me as inherently problematic.

just to clarify: how is 'women can play roles like ghostbusters just as well as men can' a problematic ideology? think about what youre saying by opposing that...

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, seed said:

 

Nothing, but the problem here is the reason behind the change. Was there a good reason for such a change, like a desire to completely re-tell the story, or was it just for the sake of pushing a political agenda forward?

 

If it's the latter, then the backlash is warranted, people want meaningful changes, not changes done for the sake of promoting an ideology.

 

In this case the arguing is totally irrelevant. These are different characters with different names. The entire argument essentially boils down to "How dare you tell a story about DIFFERENT Ghostbusters?" Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I'd rather ask "How dare you make yet another unimaginative remake of yet another classic movie?" THAT would be a legitimate gripe, not changing the gender of the protagonists. The latter is just sexist claptrap.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, seed said:

Was there a good reason for such a change

 

What is your evidence that it's due to political ideology? Honestly, something I didn't dig ab the original Ghostbusters is that the black character is just a dude they pick up halfway through, whereas all the white leads are scientists. As I said, I've only seen the trailer to GB 2016, but If this was a truly political or ""PC"" retelling of Ghostbusters wouldn't they have totally rewritten the black lead? As far as I'm aware they didn't.

 

2 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

I'd rather ask "How dare you make yet another unimaginative remake of yet another classic movie?" THAT would be a legitimate gripe, not changing the gender of the protagonists. The latter is just sexist claptrap.

 

 

 

 

 

THIS.

Share this post


Link to post

I think I'll put in my two cents on this issue.

 

The movies I watch nowadays are usually just documentaries on real-world events and issues (the topics they cover are usually interesting to me), because I can't be fucked to even watch any other type of movie anymore.

 

My problem is that most movies that have been released in the past couple of years have been the exact same garbage:

  1. A "funny" CGI-animated film for children with characters voiced by washed-up celebrities (usually that's the case for the voice actors in these movies) featuring music from any decade before the 2000's that did not deserve to get dragged into such trashy films.
  2. The latest reboot of a milked-to-death media franchise that has needed to be put down for decades.
  3. Some boring romantic film that you see advertisements of for a short period of time before quickly fading into obscurity.
  4. The occasional good movie that gets no attention because it has drowned in the flood of bad films such as the ones listed above.

And YouTube channels such as "I Hate Everything" and "Saberspark" don't help matters either, honestly. Because they are essentially giving these movies the attention that their creators wanted.

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, holaareola said:

@nekr0s1s how'd you get on with the recommendations in this thread?

 

I've been a little busy with work related stuff, my studies and the occasional skate sessions. fortunately, my holiday work leave is near (next week) so i'll have plenty of time to check them out on Netflix, assuming they are on the catalog.

Share this post


Link to post

Good luck with that one. Most stuff i try to find isn't on there, I check somewhere like GoWatchIt first, and see if the movie has Netflix or another service you have under "Subscription".

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
On 6/11/2019 at 7:08 PM, Nymbus_Hustle said:

 

How is Ghostbusters 2016 remotely political aside from having all female leads?

Movies in the past were so much more directly political than they are today. Have any of you seen a Charlie Chaplin film? Blade Runner? Cannibal Holocaust? American Psycho? The Bee movie even??

I can agree that politics can bloat a film, but the thing is, is that most films like Star Wars make a minor theme out of contemporary politics.

Also, isn't it weird you complain about Star Wars being political when the themes and plot of the whole series cover politics?

 

To be fair, any work can have politics read into it, even Shrek and someone has politically analyzed the flick. This is because art always has a cultural context and because of this art always in some ways crosses into the political.

Ghostbusters 2016 doesn't have much political crap, but it was generally considered unfaithful, bland, unoriginal, and disrespectful to the franchise. Plus the female reboot fad is directly connected to the regressive left and therefore a good indicator of bad quality.

 

The problems with the star wars franchise started with Disney's Force Awakens having bad writing which included a story with rehashed elements from a new hope, and Rey being a mary sue who was likely written that way due to regressive leftism. The situation got worse with the films after that getting more regressive leftist subtext and propaganda shoehorned in. Star Wars was completely apolitical before Disney bought it and the regressive leftists started raping it, and claims to the contrary are just bullshit used by regressive leftists who claim everything is political due to their irrational extremist ideology.

 

We have seen this crap in other media such as the comics industry, movies, and also gaming, with the post old blood wolfenstein games being huge examples.

Edited by dentine

Share this post


Link to post

Movies have always been political. Going back to the silent era, there was Metropolis which was a critique of classism among other themes and J'accuse, possibly the first anti-war themed movie. They were both very heavy-handed but artfully done. Science fiction has always been political, not merely escapist fantasy. It's a way for authors to present potentially sensitive topics to the public in a way that doesn't turn them away. Sometimes they were able to get away with topics that were basically taboo in contemporary literature (Star Trek might be the most famous example of this). Even going back to the early days of sci-fi, H.G. Wells and Jules Verne wrote very political themes in their stories. War of the Worlds was basically a metaphor for colonialism and the genocide of Native Americans. Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea had also discussed colonialism and even proto-environmentalism.

Using fiction to discuss contemporary issues through metaphors and allegories is nothing new, and in fact is more the norm than not. If you feel media has become more political then perhaps it is touching on subjects you haven't considered before and is intruding onto your worldview. Perhaps attempt to evaluate your own prejudices and challenging them instead of dismissing these works at face value.

Share this post


Link to post
55 minutes ago, Danarchy said:

If you feel media has become more political then perhaps it is touching on subjects you haven't considered before and is intruding onto your worldview.

I think this is the best way I've heard it said.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
On 6/8/2019 at 10:32 PM, 𝕲𝖗𝖎𝖒𝖔𝖘𝖆𝖚𝖗 said:

You say you only like action and comedy, so I'd say to go watch every film Edgar Wright has ever made.

 

Watch Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz or Scott Pilgrim VS The World.

 

If you don't enjoy them then I don't know what else to say to you except that it's physically impossible not to, and that you probably aren't human for not enjoying them.

 

Shaun of the Dead happens to be one of my favourite films of all time, bonus points for capturing the British culture perfectly. World's End concept is brilliant too, it has the greatest plot twist I've ever witnessed in any film. And as a hilarious bonus point. World's End was filmed in two towns near my hometown! Sure is weird going to both after watching it.

Share this post


Link to post
On 8/10/2019 at 4:20 PM, Danarchy said:

Movies have always been political. Going back to the silent era, there was Metropolis which was a critique of classism among other themes and J'accuse, possibly the first anti-war themed movie. They were both very heavy-handed but artfully done. Science fiction has always been political, not merely escapist fantasy. It's a way for authors to present potentially sensitive topics to the public in a way that doesn't turn them away. Sometimes they were able to get away with topics that were basically taboo in contemporary literature (Star Trek might be the most famous example of this). Even going back to the early days of sci-fi, H.G. Wells and Jules Verne wrote very political themes in their stories. War of the Worlds was basically a metaphor for colonialism and the genocide of Native Americans. Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea had also discussed colonialism and even proto-environmentalism.

Using fiction to discuss contemporary issues through metaphors and allegories is nothing new, and in fact is more the norm than not. If you feel media has become more political then perhaps it is touching on subjects you haven't considered before and is intruding onto your worldview. Perhaps attempt to evaluate your own prejudices and challenging them instead of dismissing these works at face value.

Not everything is political including movies, and science fiction does include apolitical media, only extremists think otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
27 minutes ago, dentine said:

Not everything is political including movies, and science fiction does include apolitical media, only extremists think otherwise.

 

So this is how Republican Retards try to manipulate opinion. Yuck! Is there anything more bottom feeding than political trolls?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, dentine said:

Not everything is political including movies, and science fiction does include apolitical media, only extremists think otherwise.

 

Like Goatlord said at some point, something I totally agree with, all art is political. What one understands by "political" depends, however. Movies and art in general try to approach a variety of topics in different ways, often in a way that isn't off-putting that wouldn't otherwise work or have good results, and it's trying to communicate with the audience to send/spread a message, an idea, and so on, regardless of whether one understands this basic aspect or not.

 

Also, this little bit for those who can't deal with this:

 

On 8/10/2019 at 11:20 PM, Danarchy said:

Perhaps attempt to evaluate your own prejudices and challenging them instead of dismissing these works at face value.

 

Indeed. It's also funny that when someone complains about politics in media, it's usually because they've noticed something they don't personally like or agree with.

 

6 hours ago, DuckReconMajor said:

oh no i've been called an extremist what ever will i do

 

Pro-tip from from Antaeus :p :

 

"I shall go on, wearin' the burden of Pain, turning it,
Glorifying it...
"

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, seed said:

 

Like Goatlord said at some point, something I totally agree with, all art is political. What one understands by "political" depends, however. Movies and art in general try to approach a variety of topics in different ways, often in a way that isn't off-putting that wouldn't otherwise work or have good results, and it's trying to communicate with the audience to send/spread a message, an idea, and so on, regardless of whether one understands this basic aspect or not.

Exactly. Granted not all art is intended to be political, but I find even the most benign of movies and the like tend to preach mainstream values subconsciously. Even so, I feel the amount of intended political art has always been roughly the same. Perhaps its more overt in more political times (for instance in the 70s during and following the Civil Rights era, Vietnam protests various assassinations, and Watergate), but it's always been there and has been a major component of society.

Share this post


Link to post

The argument that films are getting too political or "too left" is incredibly hilarious for me as a continental European because I really don't see the fucking difference between an American film with "rightwing" themes and "leftwing" themes.

 

Spoiler

It's all the same be-a-sheep-capitalism-is-good-don't-disrespect-the-force shiiiiiiite.

 

People crying about Captain Marvel being too leftwing... shiiiiiit nigga, it's the most rightwing film that Marvel has produced in fucking decades.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
On 6/8/2019 at 11:09 PM, Nekr0s1s said:

do you know of any good place to start? also, what are some good places to read some movie reviews? (i only know of Rotten Tomatoes, but i don't know if it's trustworthy)

the best movies I've seen in recent times are mostly asians, definitely check out the raid movies, R rated "martial art" movie. There's also movies like mad max and the first kingsman movie was great(I somehow allways manage to miss the best movies even when I know there in theatre)

I don't see the appeal of all these super hero movies, they were kind of cool when I was 12 and thhose were the only movies my parents allowed me to watch. There's also a general lack of quallity these days, the whole platform might be getting outdated at this point, with people simply just having tried everything.

The only place I know of for movie reviews is YMS youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg(i think he has his own website too, idk)

Again I think the movies in general are just getting sort of outdated, just play videogames instead

Edited by ([zen3001])

Share this post


Link to post

One really offputting thing I notice in modern American movies is that there's a lot of pro-military propaganda, which isn't exactly something I'd describe as a "left-wing agenda".

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

I’d love to see a film with some left wing politics in it. The closest thing I can think of are films that tell the harsh truths about war but a lot of them seem to be misunderstood as “woah dude splosions r cool”.

 

The USA is one of the only countries where climate change denial is still commonplace, everyone blames everything BUT guns for mass shootings, the medical system is a fucking joke (if you’re not wealthy you just, you know, die because you’re too poor to afford treatment). The rest of the developed world has made lots of progress on these fronts over the generations while America sticks its head in the sand. The national bird should be the ostrich rather than the bald eagle.

 

So yeah, I’d say you guys* could use a heaping dose of left wing politics in your art. Freaking out about “da feminists” ruining your movies with their dumbfuck Political Correctness (which does suck, btw) while the world literally burns around you is a sign that your priorities are up the shit.

 

Sorry im just so sick of this “movies r gettin 2 left wing guise” line because it’s a crock of bullshit. Lazily genderbending a couple films =/= “the left-wing Antifa takeover of America”.

 

*I can say “you guys” because I left America 11 years ago and am an Australian citizen by birth!

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×