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Nekr0s1s

i'm losing my joy of watching movies.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/9/2019 at 9:55 PM, AndrewB said:

Ghostbusters 2016

 

How is Ghostbusters 2016 remotely political aside from having all female leads?

Movies in the past were so much more directly political than they are today. Have any of you seen a Charlie Chaplin film? Blade Runner? Cannibal Holocaust? American Psycho? The Bee movie even??

I can agree that politics can bloat a film, but the thing is, is that most films like Star Wars make a minor theme out of contemporary politics.

Also, isn't it weird you complain about Star Wars being political when the themes and plot of the whole series cover politics?

 

To be fair, any work can have politics read into it, even Shrek and someone has politically analyzed the flick. This is because art always has a cultural context and because of this art always in some ways crosses into the political.

Edited by Nymbus_Hustle

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^ well put!

 

people get used to the allegorical style they first encountered in media and for a lot of people it's reagan-era action films that contain zero self scrutiny

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On 6/8/2019 at 5:36 PM, Mr. Freeze said:

 

All art is political and movies have been outwardly political for a looooong time. It's not a legitimate bone to pick with contemporary media. 

 

On 6/8/2019 at 8:23 PM, Mr. Freeze said:

 

OP's argument ("superhero and modern action movies are too political") is typically uttered by one specific type of moviegoer, who usually can't recognize political messages in films unless they disagree with said messages. Said moviegoer will typically complain about the "good old days" before "SJWs/feminists/liberals" overtook the industry and started cranking out "left-wing propaganda". The blindness of these people is laughable. 

 

yes, it is a legitimate complaint. there have always been political statements and references in media, but in the past, this was done with restraint and proportionality, so that art & storytelling were the priority. ever since Current Year began in 2014, this has changed drastically. not just film, but much of our entertainment media has been taken over by a certain political ideology and its aggressive preaching. whole swaths of our media are mainly propaganda, with entertainment as a secondary purpose at best.

 

I guess it's easy to ignore this if you're sympathetic to the ideology being proselytized, but there's no denying that the role of politics in media is very different than it used to be.

 

3 hours ago, Nymbus_Hustle said:

 

How is Ghostbusters 2016 remotely political aside from having all female leads?

Movies in the past were so much more directly political than they are today. Have any of you seen a Charlie Chaplin film? Blade Runner? Cannibal Holocaust? American Psycho? The Bee movie even??

I can agree that politics can bloat a film, but the thing is, is that most films like Star Wars make a minor theme out of contemporary politics.

Also, isn't it weird you complain about Star Wars being political when the themes and plot of the whole series cover politics?

 

To be fair, any work can have politics read into it, even Shrek and someone has politically analyzed the flick. This is because art always has a cultural context and because of this art always in some ways crosses into the political.

 

Ghostbusters 2016 was structured entirely around feminism and scoring woke points, and this was done at the expense of the original material. this applies not just to the use of female leads (with a male secretary, no less), but the rest of the movie as well.

 

while all the other films you mentioned had political dimensions, this was done with tact, and with a priority on art & storytelling. that is, assuming your reference to Star Wars was to the Original Trilogy and not the new movies. I don't know how anyone can watch The Last Jedi and claim that the blatant ideology shoved down the viewer's throat is a 'minor theme' (it was also a soul-suckingly terrible movie, but that's an aside).

 

all this goes back to my main point: there's a difference between political messaging and all-out propaganda, and recent entertainment media is dominated by propaganda.

 

~~~

 

OP: there's still good stuff out there, it's just harder to find. for example, Alita Battle Angel was a quality action movie. if it gets a low critics score but a high audience score on rotten tomatoes, that's a very good sign. you can also go back to the classics -- not too long ago, I rewatched the Star Wars OT (harmy's despecialized) and some of Akira Kurosawa's work. it's nice to be reminded of what it's like to watch an actually good film, too easy to forget nowadays.

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Having watched Ghostbusters 2016, I can attest to there being precisely zero feminist elements in the film. None of the female characters were treated differently for being women. None of the female characters ever made an issue about being women. Everyone was on equal footing.

 

On the flip side of that, the movie Hidden Figures was about three overqualified women of colour struggling to rise above the glass ceiling so they could help NASA win the space race. Saying that the movie contains feminist elements would not be incorrect, but it was brilliantly acted, inspiring, and above all else; highly entertaining. So if someone were to lambast it just for being a feminist movie, why should I respect such a narrow-minded sentiment? 

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1 hour ago, Ajora said:

Having watched Ghostbusters 2016, I can attest to there being precisely zero feminist elements in the film. None of the female characters were treated differently for being women. None of the female characters ever made an issue about being women. Everyone was on equal footing.

 

 

I haven't seen GB 2016 tbh, which is why I didn't reply however, I was very skeptical that he didn't give any examples. Honestly, I remember people saying the trailer was feminist, even though there's absolutely nothing political ab it. 

I should check Hidden Figures out, sounds like an interesting movie.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ajora said:

Having watched Ghostbusters 2016, I can attest to there being precisely zero feminist elements in the film. None of the female characters were treated differently for being women. None of the female characters ever made an issue about being women. Everyone was on equal footing.

 

On the flip side of that, the movie Hidden Figures was about three overqualified women of colour struggling to rise above the glass ceiling so they could help NASA win the space race. Saying that the movie contains feminist elements would not be incorrect, but it was brilliantly acted, inspiring, and above all else; highly entertaining. So if someone were to lambast it just for being a feminist movie, why should I respect such a narrow-minded sentiment? 

 

first, why were they made female? not that I have anything against women in action roles, that can definitely work, as evidenced by Kill Bill and its resounding success. but the Ghostbusters were always dudes, and I can't think of any reason for the gender swap other than ideology. this is confirmed by Chris Hemsworth playing the stereotypical 'dumb, attractive secretary' role, which is consistent with reversing gender roles purely for the sake of doing so. it's further confirmed by the negative portrayal of male characters in the film, and the fact that they save the day by

Spoiler

shooting a giant ghost in the dick

like really? that seems like a slapstick way of saying "fuck you, patriarchy!". I could disregard one of these elements by themselves, but taken together, it's sending a message.

 

then of course, there was the whole battle with the fans, as longtime Ghostbusters fans complained about the film, said they never asked for this, stop ruining Ghostbusters, we're boycotting, etc. the response to the backlash was to double-down and call the fans a bunch of pathetic losers (one of the actresses literally said this on TV). compare this to the infamous Sonic movie (now coming out next year). when the internet relentlessly criticized/mocked the character design, they didn't flip the bird, but course-corrected and made changes. there's a big difference there.

above all else, hostility to the fans is a key indicator that they're not in it to create art and entertain an audience; rather, they care about ideological orthodoxy and converting the heathens to their woke religion, and anyone who objects is treated as a class enemy.

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1 hour ago, Xcalibur said:

irst, why were they made female? not that I have anything against women in action roles, that can definitely work, as evidenced by Kill Bill and its resounding success. but the Ghostbusters were always dudes,

 

So what? What dictates that a story that once was told with male characters cannot be told with different persons that just happen to be female?

Actually my main problem with this film wasn't that the cast was female but that I cannot stand Melissa McCarthy. That alone ruined it for me.

I think this case just highlights one big problem with moviegoers which is also the root cause for the declining quality with ever more increasing budgets:

 

Most people do not want change, they want more of the same, and more of the same and more...

And that's precisely what the studios are producing mostly, regurgitating the same shit over and over and over again, bigger and 'better'.

At some time it just gets boring.

 

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

So what? What dictates that a story that once was told with male characters cannot be told with different persons that just happen to be female?

 

Nothing, but the problem here is the reason behind the change. Was there a good reason for such a change, like a desire to completely re-tell the story, or was it just for the sake of pushing a political agenda forward?

 

If it's the latter, then the backlash is warranted, people want meaningful changes, not changes done for the sake of promoting an ideology.

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Hmm, I sort of disagree with OP.  Good guy is the goodiest and the bad guy is the baddiest, good kills bad, gets the girl the end see you in the sequel! was never my thing.   The increase in moral complexity in blockbuster films (as seen on TV too) is one of the changes I do like in recent cinema. And I don't think it's the politics that are causing films to be crap. Other than the risk avoidance you mention: Remake! Sequel! Franchise!  I think the average blockbuster is if anything a little better. Looking back to the 80s and 90s, the cultural filtering has been done -- the best stuff floats to the top, everything looks better in retrospect because the utter garbage that was actually out most of the time has sunk beneath memory.

 

Buuuut I do prefer it when political messaging is more deftly handled as subtext rather than gracelessly thrust in your face in 'net friendly neatly packaged chunks.

 

In this climate, it makes sense to take the overt route.  I read so many reviews which drearily descend through the political checklist before even getting to what a film is actually like qua film.  As long as things are being consumed so much through the prism of political values, it's a good way to generate buzz. Not only that, but a thorough job ticking those boxes can also help critically, with politically sympathetic corners reluctant to bag on something that appears to be fighting the good fight.

 

And that's my main issue. This focus on making the right gestures can act as a fig leaf masking a decline in quality, imagination and risk-taking.   The aim should be first to succeed as art or entertainment in itself, and much of the time political values just don't weigh there.

 

@nekr0s1s how'd you get on with the recommendations in this thread?

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Posted (edited)

how is 'women can play the same roles as men' even remotely 'political' in anything more than a broad-strokes 'equality' message?

i must say ive yet to see anyone argue a point more coherent than 'i dont want to see women in mah male roles' and that strikes me as inherently problematic.

just to clarify: how is 'women can play roles like ghostbusters just as well as men can' a problematic ideology? think about what youre saying by opposing that...

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3 hours ago, seed said:

 

Nothing, but the problem here is the reason behind the change. Was there a good reason for such a change, like a desire to completely re-tell the story, or was it just for the sake of pushing a political agenda forward?

 

If it's the latter, then the backlash is warranted, people want meaningful changes, not changes done for the sake of promoting an ideology.

 

In this case the arguing is totally irrelevant. These are different characters with different names. The entire argument essentially boils down to "How dare you tell a story about DIFFERENT Ghostbusters?" Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I'd rather ask "How dare you make yet another unimaginative remake of yet another classic movie?" THAT would be a legitimate gripe, not changing the gender of the protagonists. The latter is just sexist claptrap.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, seed said:

Was there a good reason for such a change

 

What is your evidence that it's due to political ideology? Honestly, something I didn't dig ab the original Ghostbusters is that the black character is just a dude they pick up halfway through, whereas all the white leads are scientists. As I said, I've only seen the trailer to GB 2016, but If this was a truly political or ""PC"" retelling of Ghostbusters wouldn't they have totally rewritten the black lead? As far as I'm aware they didn't.

 

2 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

I'd rather ask "How dare you make yet another unimaginative remake of yet another classic movie?" THAT would be a legitimate gripe, not changing the gender of the protagonists. The latter is just sexist claptrap.

 

 

 

 

 

THIS.

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I think I'll put in my two cents on this issue.

 

The movies I watch nowadays are usually just documentaries on real-world events and issues (the topics they cover are usually interesting to me), because I can't be fucked to even watch any other type of movie anymore.

 

My problem is that most movies that have been released in the past couple of years have been the exact same garbage:

  1. A "funny" CGI-animated film for children with characters voiced by washed-up celebrities (usually that's the case for the voice actors in these movies) featuring music from any decade before the 2000's that did not deserve to get dragged into such trashy films.
  2. The latest reboot of a milked-to-death media franchise that has needed to be put down for decades.
  3. Some boring romantic film that you see advertisements of for a short period of time before quickly fading into obscurity.
  4. The occasional good movie that gets no attention because it has drowned in the flood of bad films such as the ones listed above.

And YouTube channels such as "I Hate Everything" and "Saberspark" don't help matters either, honestly. Because they are essentially giving these movies the attention that their creators wanted.

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15 hours ago, holaareola said:

@nekr0s1s how'd you get on with the recommendations in this thread?

 

I've been a little busy with work related stuff, my studies and the occasional skate sessions. fortunately, my holiday work leave is near (next week) so i'll have plenty of time to check them out on Netflix, assuming they are on the catalog.

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Good luck with that one. Most stuff i try to find isn't on there, I check somewhere like GoWatchIt first, and see if the movie has Netflix or another service you have under "Subscription".

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