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Duke of Pathoris

Heaven in Doom Eternal

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2 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

 

This.

 

To be honest I felt that the story of Doom's reboot jumped the shark almost instantly by making the doom marine into an alien. The decision to shift the UAC away from teleportation experiments to "digging for hell oil" was another mistake. I just don't like all of these lore changes, and if it now turns out that "hell" is just a fucked up dimension rather than the actual real hell then that would be the final straw for me.

 

I do agree about switching out the teleportation lore bit. However, in all fairness, everything we've seen of Hell in 2016 suggests that this is not simply an alien dimension, but in fact, Hell itself as we know it. 

Also, here's  a really, really interesting quote...

 

Quote

"And you're gonna learn a lot about him in Doom Eternal," he stressed. "A lot. I think we're going to answer a lot of questions, people are very curious about him and who he is. Is it the same Doom Guy from 1993? You're gonna learn all that stuff, him, his personality, what he does. But he'll still be a mystery. Michael Myers and all those guys are always a mystery." 

- Hugo Martin (Source )

 

So I guess we're about to get all those head-cannon thoughts and theories answered...

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Who said the Doom Slayer is an alien?

 

The Doom Slayer obviously is some kind of entity that exists beyond timelines (savegames), a memetic mutation of the original Doom Marine, warped from all the different narratives in which he fought hell. The original Doom Marine is somewhere there, deep inside the prehistory of the Doom revival, before even Argent D'Nur. Here's what I expect to exist in that prehistory. Doom 1, 2, 3, their respective (un)official expansion packs, just about every mod someone has made for a Doom game, the Doom novels, the Doom comic, it's all there. It all happened in some multiverse/web of timelines, until eventually the Doom Slayer formed.

Argent D'Nur could be alien, some human precursor civilization Larry Niven-style, or (my personal bet) some transdimensional remnant of humanity from a previous universe/timeline.

 

Also, Argent energy was a brilliant move, giving us a taste of those cyberpunk elements that Doom has around the edges as well as a logical extension of that radioactive waste joke in the Doom comic.

 

BTW, lowkey bet here. We'll end up killing Heaven and God's going to be some two-headed monster with Carmack and Romero's faces.

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On 6/10/2019 at 6:49 PM, igg said:

Same here. I'm really surprised they actually decided to use the word "heaven" at all. As a Christian I have no problems slaughtering demons or maybe even confront fallen angels. Attacking heaven in general would kid of ruin the game for me. I would have preferred if they stick to the more abstract term "Maykrs".

Yeah it does make me feel a bit uneasy. 

 

3 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

To be honest I felt that the story of Doom's reboot jumped the shark almost instantly by making the doom marine into an alien. The decision to shift the UAC away from teleportation experiments to "digging for hell oil" was another mistake. I just don't like all of these lore changes, and if it now turns out that "hell" is just a fucked up dimension rather than the actual real hell then that would be the final straw for me.

I find the plot really reflects the issues at the time. The 90s were rather optimistic but we risked destroying ourselves with our technology. Now our energy generation is a danger to ourselves. I think it's a clever reflection. As for Hell, is it not possible that Hell *is* just a fucked up dimension? Is it not possible that this Hell has nothing to do with the Christian Hell? After all, we never see the Devil, no fallen angels. All we see are these monsters.

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I just hope we don't start fighting a army of angels.  That would take up the enemy roster in a game all about killing demons.

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I'm waiting for the mass media to pick up on this and let the politically correct crowd loose on it. I remember the stink that was kicked up back in the 90's when the original was released and all the fuss over satanic imagery. 

It's 2019 where everyone is offended, and having a game with parts set in a heaven with demons and guns and all manor of horrendous things...... whatever will they say? 

Seriously though , I wouldn't bet against this possibility and shit hitting the PC fan.

Edited by Eurisko

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14 minutes ago, Eurisko said:

I'm waiting for the mass media to pick up on this a let the politically correct crowd loose on it. I remember the stink that was kicked up back in the 90's when the original was released and all the fuss over satanic imagery. 

It's 2019 where everyone is offended, and having a game with parts set in a heaven with demons and guns and all manor of horrendous things...... whatever will they say? 

Seriously though , I wouldn't bet against this possibility and shit hitting the PC fan.

Seems more like a religious group issue. I've heard no big stink about this at all. And if there was going to be an issue it would have already come up. Though perhaps my local church will boycott it.

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1 hour ago, Egg Boy said:

Seems more like a religious group issue.

 

And a minority as well.

 

The average Christian or whatever doesn't seem to care so much about depictions of Hell, demons, angels, and so on in video games, it seems to be more or less a specific group that is almost always bothered by such things. And yes, all the shit that could happen should've happened already, but it didn't, so it's fine I guess.

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1 minute ago, seed said:

 

And a minority as well.

 

The average Christian or whatever doesn't seem to care so much about depictions of Hell, demons, angels, and so on in video games, it seems to be more or less a specific group that is almost always bothered by such things. And yes, all the shit that could happen should've happened already, but it didn't, so it's fine I guess.

 

They don't care anymore because the media doesn't tell them to be offended anymore. The media has moved on to greener pastures, which shall not be named.

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1 minute ago, DooM_RO said:

 

They don't care anymore because the media doesn't tell them to be offended anymore. The media has moved on to greener pastures, which shall not be named.

Let's not get into this discussion.

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5 minutes ago, DooM_RO said:

They don't care anymore because the media doesn't tell them to be offended anymore.

 

Well if they do that, heh, y'know what they say, all publicity is good publicity.

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Just now, seed said:

 

Well if they do that, heh, y'know what they say, all publicity is good publicity.

 

Exactly. If I were a game dev in the 90s I would tell all the annoying pastors that what they are thinking is exactly what I am doing so they wouldn't shut up about my game. When the kids see an old geezer rambling about satanism in a video game, they know they're gonna have a good time. Nowadays you have different kinds of "pastors" but you can basically do the same thing.

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3 minutes ago, seed said:

 

Well if they do that, heh, y'know what they say, all publicity is good publicity.

Too true.

DOOM, Mortal Kombat and dare I say Night Trap have all enjoyed publicity of the controversy and the accolade of being part of the reason games have a ratings board. 

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1 minute ago, Eurisko said:

Too true.

DOOM, Mortal Kombat and dare I say Night Trap have all enjoyed publicity of the controversy and the accolade of being part of the reason games have a ratings board. 

I know it's before my time but it still blows my goddamn mind that night trap was controversial.

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Just now, Egg Boy said:

I know it's before my time but it still blows my goddamn mind that night trap was controversial.

oh massively, scantily clad teenagers being stalked in a video game on a CD ROM!!?? 

It was mayhem!

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12 hours ago, seed said:

The average Christian or whatever doesn't seem to care so much about depictions of Hell, demons, angels, and so on in video games, it seems to be more or less a specific group that is almost always bothered by such things. And yes, all the shit that could happen should've happened already, but it didn't, so it's fine I guess.

Some people just want to be offended.

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On 6/12/2019 at 6:56 PM, Eurisko said:

I'm waiting for the mass media to pick up on this and let the politically correct crowd loose on it. I remember the stink that was kicked up back in the 90's when the original was released and all the fuss over satanic imagery. 

It's 2019 where everyone is offended, and having a game with parts set in a heaven with demons and guns and all manor of horrendous things...... whatever will they say? 

Seriously though , I wouldn't bet against this possibility and shit hitting the PC fan.

A Satanic Panic 2.0 would help bring back that underground punk "i dont give a shit bro!" Romero mood that has been missing from the Doom games since id sanitized their games with Quake 2.

 

Man oh man. That Jesus-corpse-partially-encased-in-concrete texture in Quake 1 really had lil-christian-me quaking in my boots when I was 8 years old.

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39 minutes ago, FractalBeast said:

A Satanic Panic 2.0 would help bring back that underground punk "i dont give a shit bro!" Romero mood that has been missing from the Doom games since id sanitized their games with Quake 2.

 

Man oh man. That Jesus-corpse-partially-encased-in-concrete texture in Quake 1 really had lil-christian-me quaking in my boots when I was 8 years old.

 

...sanitized? In what reality is Quake 2, the game about fighting brute-forcefully augmented cyborgs, whose surgical wounds still look fresh, and in which you trudge through a literal human meat factory, sanitized? For that matter, Quake 3 had a lot of pretty curious imagery too. And lest we forget...DOOM 3. 

 

Really not seeing where iD went squeaky clean, other than maybe Rage, on account of my not having played it. 

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8 hours ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

 

...sanitized? In what reality is Quake 2, the game about fighting brute-forcefully augmented cyborgs, whose surgical wounds still look fresh, and in which you trudge through a literal human meat factory, sanitized? For that matter, Quake 3 had a lot of pretty curious imagery too. And lest we forget...DOOM 3. 

 

Really not seeing where iD went squeaky clean, other than maybe Rage, on account of my not having played it. 

I think he means it's inoffensive socially/religiously/politically instead of it's clean and not morbid.

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2 hours ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

I think he means it's inoffensive socially/religiously/politically instead of it's clean and not morbid.

 

Even in that regard, Quake 3 and Doom 3 both have their fair share. Doom 3 has pentagrams galore, more than a few torture scenes and crucified bodies, and dark ritual setups. For that matter, Doom 2016 has that desecrated and re-purposed chapel. 

 

I just feel like calling out Quake 2 for being "sanitized for not having edge-lord 'offensive' content" is as unfair as slamming Wolfenstien 3d or latter- day Rage for the same. Their concepts simply don't call for it, and they hardly make up even close to a majority of the back catalog to seen as the studio trying to be clean. 

 

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8 minutes ago, FractalBeast said:

Yeah yeah yeah. :) Maybe I'm a bit harsh on Quake 2. But hey, I love my cosmic horror and Romero level design.

 

Oh fair enough! I think we can all agree that the cosmic/ interdenominational horror is where the party's at! Personally, I have a soft spot for Quake 2, more so than Quake 1 (which I found boring to play), but Doom wins out  against both any day for sure. 

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In another thread here this video is mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjbOcJUBPFA

 

It contains some additional information about Heaven in Doom Eternal (13:15 - 14:23 and 18:25):

  • [Question was: What kind of things in heaven am I going to kill?]
  • 13:29 We can't give away too much
  • 13:35 If there is a hell, there must be a heaven
  • 13:45 The opportunity to design our version of heaven is just a really exciting one
  • 14:05 At some point, you know they're, somebody is, Heavens gonna get in the Slayers way [...] there's a catastrophe happening on Earth
  • 14:15 How they get involved and what you'll do in heaven - we don't wanna say too much yet - you just kind have to wait until the end of the game
  • 15:32 I can't wait for people going to Heaven, they're gonna freak out
  • 18:25 You're gonna meet like a god you gonna see angels, I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on there.
  • [Question: Will we see god?]
  • 18:32 Ehh a god, and well, I don't wanna say the god, we'll see, it's very much open to interpretation

Other places confirmed: 

  • Ancient city in core of Mars (related to Doom 3?)
  • Sentinel home world

Update: I wonder whether this quote is related to Doom Eternals lore (which indicates you're kind of an ally of a god in Doom) or just a general understanding of heaven and hell:

Quote

You’re killing demons. I mean, you’re doing God’s work

A few lines before Hugo said:

Quote

The developers said that it builds on 2016’s “Doom” reboot with an epic story in which “you’ll travel to the depths of hell and the heights of heaven,” as Stratton put it. The title itself refers to “the eternal struggle between good and evil and the Doomslayer’s eternal fight against the demons… The universe of ‘Doom’ is expanding and it explores some of those grand ideas of good versus evil.”

 

Edited by igg : Added another heaven & hell quote

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2 hours ago, igg said:

 

  • 18:25 You're gonna meet like a god you gonna see angels, I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on there.
  • [Question: Will we see god?]
  • 18:32 Ehh a god, and well, I don't wanna say the god, we'll see, it's very much open to interpretation

 

I'm really excited to see "the god" in the game, but I'm pretty sure that it's not something that we're gonna have to battle against. It's probably something that's in the background.

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8 hours ago, Martin-CAI said:

 

I'm really excited to see "the god" in the game, but I'm pretty sure that it's not something that we're gonna have to battle against. It's probably something that's in the background.

Unless he's the new Samuel Hayden, telling us what to do. But I doubt Slayer would take orders.

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