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CrbnBased

Perception of Doom

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this is all really interesting but ive already written a manifesto on this so idk what to say in response that i havent said before

 

 

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If you want to experience the fear that playing Doom the first time might have given you, play saveless, and play something you have never played before, preferably something atmospheric and focused on attrition rather than setpieces (Doom 1 sets like Double Impact or No End in Sight are perfect for this).

 

There is no better way to put the fear of death into the player, when you don't know what is lurking in the room ahead, when you have no idea what will happen when you pick up that key, when you have 15 health and a single shotgunner can bring you to your knees if you're not vigilant, when you're so close to the exit but letting your guard down could mean it's all over.

 

That is how you bring atmosphere and fear back into Doom.

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Posted (edited)

@CrbnBased The creator is vasyan777 and your assumption to not link it is correct. Mr. Vasily has more than complied with the banhammer of ZeniMax Media, Inc. in removing all traces of his project online, well before the 6/20 deadline. 

 

I can only assume anyone caught distributing any files pertaining to, and or DR4 itself, could be subject to similar legal actions that he was facing (at that time) and ruin anyone's weekend plans for the foreseeable future. 

 

I would just keep it to, and enjoy it myself, idk if uploading videos would be a good idea either, honestly. Just be careful either way. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/18/2019 at 8:24 AM, CrbnBased said:

IMPORTANT UPDATE!!!!

 

“Nobody is doing this. You are making up a conflict that is not there.” - TheMightyHeracross

 
In a discussion about how people feel when playing Doom with a breakdown of my perception of Doom. At the end I asked the following.

 
Has anyone else discovered that their perception of Doom has changed, and want to fear the halls of Doom again? If so what types of wads and mods do you use to achieve that dread?

 
Here’s some replies.

 

You conveniently left out the part I was referring to:

 

Quote

The whole Doom community needs to wake up and be less critical when people modify Doom or play it in alternative ways.

 

 

Let's look at what happened. You show up to a forum you've been a member of for ~1 month. You make a post about adding atmosphere to Doom so people "fear the halls of Doom again," and people responded that achieving that goal by adding "modern" features like max resolution and dynamic lighting to a game that was able to run on a Super Nintendo wouldn't magically make it scary again- especially not on a tiny smartphone screen!

 

In response to this, you accused the community of being hostile to content creators and source port programmers, never mind the fact that many of the people who have replied to the thread or reacted to its posts are content creators for the community, and that the community has survived on custom content for a quarter century and even hosts a whole ass award ceremony every year to celebrate community contributions. Meanwhile you're acting all high and mighty for using advanced source ports (despite the fact that GZDoom and Doomsday are arguably the two most popular source ports ever) and telling the Doomworld community to "wake up." That is what people are being critical of.

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Posted (edited)

Okay, I was going to ignore this thread but I want keep up with it. Followed!

 

Aaand... just so this isn't a shitpost that adds literally nothing to the conversation, I will add my own two cents about OP's original question.

 

Has anyone else discovered that their perception of Doom was changing? Yes, I have. I used to be afraid of: Mancubi, Arachnotron, Pain Elementals, Barnos of Hell, Cyber Demons and... ... that's about it. Do I fear them anymore? No. Do I want to fear the halls of Doom (II) again? No because I may have been afraid of Doom but I sure as hell didn't enjoy getting rofl stomped by most mid-tier monster groups (and some single monsters like Pain Elementals). I've gotten better at the game and I can now see the monsters as obstacles and chess pieces rather than monsters. This may sound like a bad thing but it's not. I enjoy thinking tactically on how to defeat which encounter using minimal effort (i.e Cheesing) and I enjoy Doom now more than I ever did. It's my favorite game now (Doom II).

 

I could talk about how it is literally impossible to re-feel the old feeling of fear and chasing that experience is pointless because it is something that we can never have but others have already said it better. I could also talk about how piling high-res, 3d whatsits to doom isn't the way to go about capturing the old feel but again, other members have said it better.

 

/End comment.

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18 minutes ago, Zulk RS said:

Has anyone else discovered that their perception of Doom was changing? Yes, I have. I used to be afraid of: Mancubi, Arachnotron, Pain Elementals, Barnos of Hell, Cyber Demons and... ... that's about it.

 

Playing on -fast adds tremendously adds to the fear. Pinkies go from docile yet annoying to the scariest motherfuckers out there. A CP built around -fast would be cool.

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On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 6:37 AM, CrbnBased said:

Thanks for compliment on the vid, if I have time soon I'll get the list of mods I'm using and link them so you can try out the combo it's ok but needs some work.  The plastic Shaders mod got pulled and I don't want to reupload it unless the maker gets credit, alas no txt file included in the download so I don't have a name of the original creator.  If anyone knows please feel free to comment, I've had others ask me about it, but I won't distribute, I know better.

 

 

I would really appreciate this. Some links to play around with would be great. :)

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On 6/18/2019 at 1:24 PM, CrbnBased said:

Doom 3 was ID's answer to this issue, but by the time it was released our perception of Doom had changed.  Doom had become an action game first and foremost, so Doom 3 was not very well received by the existing Doom community and had so many people complaining about the flashlight mechanic and the focus on atmosphere that they re-released it to appease the fans, reducing the survival horror aspect.

 

That's an interesting point, although I remember disliking Doom 3 not because of the style, but because it was monotonous. The level design was samey and the monster spawning was formulaic. There are a couple of good ideas - I remember one locker that had a monster inside it instead of a power-up, and the "screen interfaces are part of the world" idea was neat - but they were either scattered very thinly or used all the time, deadening the effect.

 

It's odd, because one of the things Half-Life and its sequel established is that it's more unsettling to have a relatively benign, recognisable environment gradually turn bad than to begin with a nightmare grimdark techbase, but even before hell invades Doom 3 begins with cartoonishly evil human characters walking around inside a darkened steam factory.

 

Furthermore I never found the original Doom at all scary - the monster designs were too cartoony, and on a tonal level it was much closer to something like Army of Darkness (spoof) than e.g. Alien3 (unsettling). System Shock was much more effective, but even then some of the monster designs worked against the atmosphere.

 

On a broader level I remember the way that Serious Sam was advertised as a spiritual successor of Doom back in 2001, even though the gameplay was completely different. It was as if people had forgotten the original Doom even though it was just eight years old at that point. The pace of change was very rapid in the PC gaming world in the 1990s and Doom went from being a technological showcase to a retro throwback very quickly, but in 2001 it was strange the way that the media became fixated on the idea that "Doom = blasting huge waves of mindless monsters". Only a small number of the original maps had monster arenas and in general Doom was a lot more non-linear than people gave it credit.

 

Also, I remember being irritated at the way that level designers in the post-Doom world became fixated on monster teleport traps. Off the top of my head there's only one monster teleport trap in all of E1, and it's in a hidden level. The result that almost all games post-Doom put the player in a linear level where you can't clear out groups of monsters before the game lets you meet them.

 

I mean, in the very first room of E1M1 you can in theory snipe at some monsters that you don't meet until the next-but-one room. That kind of thing vanished from first person shooters post-Doom, presumably to save memory, but still it makes me mad. Mad, I tell you. Also, I'm digressing.

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On 6/21/2019 at 12:10 PM, xvertigox said:

 

Playing on -fast adds tremendously adds to the fear. Pinkies go from docile yet annoying to the scariest motherfuckers out there. A CP built around -fast would be cool.

 

I know that but the thing is, I DON'T want it to add to the fear. How I feel about Doom has change but I like how I feel about it now more than I did when I was still a kid playing it. I like that when I see a bunch of PEs in one room, I go "Well, shit. Guess we're doing this now." Instead of going  "AAAAAAAAAAH" after seeing a single PE. So I don't want to play on -fast because I enjoy how Doom feels now.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe "fear" isn't the right term to describe it. I think what @CrbnBased is saying (in a round about way) is that feeling excitement and not knowing what to expect next, is something that the original iwads won't do for anyone, as it did 25+ years ago. (We know what to expect next and knowing already What lies ahead)

 

This is where the contributions of the Doomworld community come in. I am in a similar boat as Crbnbased. I am New to the Doomworld community as well as new to the THOUSANDS of contributions of fan made pwads. Until Delta Touch and its previous incarnation, my only experiences have been with console Doom. (Like the limited edition of Doom3, I never really played the original Doom games that were included that much)

 

People will always love what their favorite game is and will want that nostalgic feel of how it felt for then the first time they played it. Unfortunately for most games this isn't a possibility until a new game comes out.

 

For Doom however, this can be done time and time again with the pwads that are still coming out daily for us to experience. Whether playing straight up or adding mods/textures, the sky really is the tip of the limit for that "new" Doom feeling. 

 

I'm no expert in Doom in the way the Doomworld community is and I am still learning a lot but I am very thankful for what I am able to learn here and to experience. I don't think Crbnbased is wrong for his thought process on his topic and yeah, some of the replies are shitposts, which isn't fair to him either, he is new here and he isn't going to have the experiences and know how's that most people will. 

 

With that last statement said, remember how "ignorant" this all was for you at one point in time? Give him a break and help him understand first....

Edited by Welfare Prodigy

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