Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
xvertigox

WAD Progression for Skill Improvement

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

This is an awesome thread, great idea!

 

Would it be unfair to say that the overall selection seems skewed towards harder and more modern stuff? That's my only objection, and I think there might be some "too tough too soon" going on. There's a lot of notable releases out there that fall somewhere in the middle or towards the front of the list in terms of difficulty. The spike I'm seeing is specifically at the Plutonia point, Scythe notwithstanding. (Well, aside from the last couple maps, which are a significant ramp..)

 

EDIT that I decided to move to the top: Now that I'm thinking about it, the big problem I see with a list like this is that it's at a point where including anything else risks making it an untamable behemoth, BUT, as it is now, there's a bunch of important, popular, super fun releases that are being skipped over..

 

Perhaps it's worth coming up with difficulty tiers instead of a strict list? Tier 'A' through 'F' or 1 to 5 or something in terms of hardness? This could prove to be far more inclusive for the history, as well as the future of Doom WADs. I'm honestly shocked that "agreed upon tier lists of difficulty" aren't already a thing in the community. Or, if it is, I don't know of it. What do all of you think? It would be fun to have a bigass table that includes all the popular episodes/megawads which is sorted by difficulty!

 

(now back to the old post)

 

Here are a few classic-style sets for consideration, stuff that I really like that won't scare the bib-wearing Doomers, sorted in order of how hard I remember them being:

 

Icarus https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/themes/TeamTNT/icarus/icarus

Coffee Break https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cafebrk1

Biowar https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/megawads/biowar

Mars War https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/megawads/marsw301

Doom 404 https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/megawads/doom404

Requiem https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/megawads/requiem

Doom64 for Doom2 https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/megawads/d64d2

Equinox https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/equinox

THT: Threnody https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/thtthren

STRAIN https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/megawads/strain10    Repacked here: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/megawads/strain

Japanese Community Project https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/jpcp

Mutiny https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/mutiny

 

I only included releases that had substantial popularity, some of which seem to have been forgotten by the Dooming collective in recent times. Basically all of these should be placed at some point before Plutonia, that is IF I'm recalling their toughness accurately.. It's been a while.

 

I feel that the inclusion of some of these wads will make the list more accessible for the common Doomer, thus helping to achieve the goal of making a general populous of IRON-DOOMERS. (lol). Not only does a more gradual incline make learning a bit easier, but.. This list is in serious need of a 90's injection! :B

 

 

Edited by Doomkid

Share this post


Link to post

Thank you @Doomkid. I was mentioning earlier in the thread I wished there were more wads listed on the easier side. If you know others I think it's worth listing them, regardless of popularity.

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe it's just me, but I find Plutonia's difficulty grossly overrated, having played Memento Mori and Sigil, I think both are harder. This is coming from the perspective of a continuous max playthrough on Ultra-Violence, so from a pistol-start (like it's intended from the OP) it might be different, I'll have to check at a later time.

Share this post


Link to post
20 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Here are a few classic-style sets for consideration, stuff that I really like that won't scare the bib-wearing Doomers, sorted in order of how hard I remember them being:

 

Depending on which end of the list is supposed to be the 'easy' one, either Icarus or STRAIN is way out of order :)

Share this post


Link to post

Well I played Icarus continuously not too long ago, 3-4 years or something, and it wasn’t too tough.. The last time I actually played through strain was years ago though and back then I used to abuse IDFA and still count it as a play through, so I was really just guessing with it’s placement! I know it’s cool enough to be worth directing people to though

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Hallo, 

I agree, nice thread, lots of content. So many levels I haven't played yet, I remember some names of some wad files listed above. The walk-through-videos are fun to watch. I'll need some proper hardware to get my hands on this stuff. No idea how this will work on my Nintendo Switch. 

If anybody having problems getting the files listed above too, Google will help you out. 

Mfg

Edited by KickAss

Share this post


Link to post

@Doomkid This is something I've been going back on forth on for a while. I do want this to be a (fairly) succinct list made for improving quickly but having the wads divided into relative tiers is also useful. What I'll do is have two separate posts in this thread, one for each. Thanks for the input.

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Well I played Icarus continuously not too long ago, 3-4 years or something, and it wasn’t too tough..

 

My point was that both it and STRAIN should be at the easy end :)

Share this post


Link to post

This is just a bit of an opinion about this list and a few wads that I think are out of place.

 

I agree with the first places up until memento mori, while MM is a super classic and a must play imo for it's historic relevance, it definitely shows it's age and I would put the much more polished mm2 in it's place, I think both are about equal difficulty.

 

Scythe is the next weird wad cause you visit almost all of the difficulty spectrum in it's level, the first 10 level are as easy if not easier than doom2, while ep3 would be placed at least above SoD. This is one of the most influential wads of all time and a must play but in a list like this? I don't know.

 

Next one is hr. I think it's a few places too high in the list, it got only a handfull hard maps, the hardest ones to max being map30. map26 and map24 (in that order), but the rest of the wad is rather easy, I would place it below rush difficulty. And I don't want to repeat myself but this wad really is a must play and one of the best wads ever.

 

Scythe 2 has the same problem as Scythe and I feel it got it's position only cause of the last 7 maps.

 

Combat shock 2 and Sunder are a bit too similar but I can't which wad should be removed, Sunder is the father of modern slaughterwads but sc2 is much more polished, maybe it allows the player to work more into skillfully approaching fights?, cause in Sunder you can do a whole lot of cheeses but at least from what I've seen in Sunder streams the average player is unaware of cheeses that are obvious to the eye of speedrunners, anyway if both wads are to stay in the list I would place Sunder as easier than combat shock 2.

 

I think many people overestimate the difficulty of Italo doom, ok it got a wad that forces sr50, ok it got some fights where you honestly need a bit of luck to survive and very often once you manage to find the way to survive you will manage to do it in a few attempts, meanwhile nochance is a map that seems to be underestimated (and I am seeing it uses the 3rd hardest spot in the list), the true difficulty of Nochance is not it's fights that you can usually cheese, but the obnoxiously placed ranged monsters that you can't kill until very late in the map and the limited resources, while Italo throws megas and enough ammo to do every one of it's fight, plus nochance can have a place as the maximum challenge to complete saveless :)

 

About Dimensions it's hard to recommend it, with nochance I think a skilled player has a good chance to complete it in 1 go (after studying the map), but dimensions there is absolutely no way and it's one of the few wads where I can say that luck is needed at almost every fight, and I think that is not the point of the list, maybe Dimensions on HMP can still have the same spot but HMP was designed to be able to be completed close to 100% of the time by mrzzul (so it's still some bs difficulty :), but I would not recommend UV as a test or anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ancalagon said:

And I don't want to repeat myself but this wad really is a must play and one of the best wads ever.

I'm glad to hear this. I've always liked HR for some reason (though I never finished it), but I've heard negative things about it recently, though that might have just been kids on YouTube i don't remember.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, DuckReconMajor said:

I'm glad to hear this. I've always liked HR for some reason (though I never finished it), but I've heard negative things about it recently, though that might have just been kids on YouTube i don't remember.

I think what annoys most people about Hell Revealed is the unapologetic baron spam and the dull first episode, otherwise it's a very solid set and really fun to play through!

Share this post


Link to post

HR is great as it is, I'm really liking the original as well, and it's a must play in my book. On par with AV.

 

HR2 on the other hand is beyond mediocre. The first half is full of maps that are ugly as fuck and unfun. Even later on when things get significantly better, the enemy usage feels like pure spam to me sometimes. It doesn't hold a candle to the original.

Share this post


Link to post

@Doomkid Just played through your Cut Throat level on THT: Threnody and it's a masterpiece. Best level so far in the wad. Thanks for the list!

Share this post


Link to post

This is a great discussion; I love threads like this.

 

So where would stuff like Crusades or Slayer fit in?   I'm guessing somewhere in the middle or just below middle, with Crusades being considered the harder of the two.

 

Also what about maps like Hellrun or Castle of Evil which I consider great maps to practice on?  They're not terribly hard unless you try to max it in one go, then they become complicated.   

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks a ton for this! As a new player who wants to get quick fast, this post is an absoloute godsend. Ive beaten all the original games, sigil and eviternity all on uv pistol start, and I started scythe after being recommended it on reddit. 
So I think I might jump into the trial by fire that is Hell Revealed soon!

Share this post


Link to post

I think Deus Vult 2 needs to go down a bit. It doesn't really belong in the same category, difficulty speaking as some of the big slaughter names and is DEFINITELY not harder than sunder by any stretch of the imagination, especially the new maps.

 

Most fights in DVII took me one or two tries first time, while the hardest fights in sunder took me 10 or 15 tries first time

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×