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Finnthemapmaker

What baits players to play your maps

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Until you are known for releasing good maps it's probably best to show off interesting screenshots. Presentation (i.e. what you write in your post on the forums) can help a lot, too. Good examples are @Jimmy's posts. For example

 

has all the infos needed to just download and play. What port, IWAD is requried. What maps it's on etc.

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, boris said:

Until you are known for releasing good maps it's probably best to show off interesting screenshots. Presentation (i.e. what you write in your post on the forums) can help a lot, too. Good examples are @Jimmy's posts. For example

 

has all the infos needed to just download and play. What port, IWAD is requried. What maps it's on etc.

 

I will read what you sended. All of it. But people never played my wads (even tho they 2) , so how can i improve if no one ever gived me a chance to beign with. I see peoole with new releases Way more primitive (disign wise) then mine getting like 7 to 8 people playing them. And to me even 1 is enough. I am not saying i have no fault in it. I am just confused and dk what to do. Also i think i will be to stressed working on a project with other people so i really dk about this.

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Well, if you compare the post I linked with

there's a glaring difference: your post is a mess, Jimmy's is clean-cut.

 

Quote

Have fun playing i guess :/

Why would you write that? It makes you look unconfident.

 

Quote

 

Also map02 was supposed to have a force pistol start but idk how to doit , plus no one was really helpful.So if you would be nice to reload map02 once you get there.

Here is the endtext story idk how to put in-game (it was supposed to show after map02) 

 

How's that supposed to make people eager to try out your map(s)? You're basically saying that you overextended yourself. And that raises the possibility that your map is hot garbage by a lot, which in turn lowers the chance that people even want to check it out. Maybe you should be a bit more humble with your projects until you don't have to ask how every single feature you want to do is done.

 

Quote

endtext

Please, use paragraphs. And watch your punctuation. Don't use a blank before a punctuation character, do use a black after a punctuation character. That might seem irrelevant, but it looks extremely sloppy and will likely make players think you're as sloppy in your mapping.

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38 minutes ago, boris said:

Well, if you compare the post I linked with

there's a glaring difference: your post is a mess, Jimmy's is clean-cut.

 

Why would you write that? It makes you look unconfident.

 

How's that supposed to make people eager to try out your map(s)? You're basically saying that you overextended yourself. And that raises the possibility that your map is hot garbage by a lot, which in turn lowers the chance that people even want to check it out. Maybe you should be a bit more humble with your projects until you don't have to ask how every single feature you want to do is done.

 

Please, use paragraphs. And watch your punctuation. Don't use a blank before a punctuation character, do use a black after a punctuation character. That might seem irrelevant, but it looks extremely sloppy and will likely make players think you're as sloppy in your mapping.

Dude you just called my map hot-garbage and told me not to ask stuff to look more humble. I ain't good with words but i think neither are you. I am may be shit at making maps but i still will doit cuz i have passion and will still upload them. Not that you are stoping me. 

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The screen shots look great. I'm gonna try that Base Nevana and let you know what I think. Try to stay a little more positive in your posts. Lots of mappers get overlooked, I'm sure.

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41 minutes ago, Finnthemapmaker said:

Dude you just called my map hot-garbage

*Sigh* I didn't call your map hot garbage. I said that people might think it is by the way you made your post.

 

47 minutes ago, Finnthemapmaker said:

and told me not to ask stuff to look more humble.

You're twisting my words. You're apparently in over your head on what you can do compared to what you want to do. What I'm saying is that instead of wanting to cram many features into your map without knowing how to do them, then ask (and that's perfectly fine), but then complain that you didn't include it in your map anyway since "no one was really helpful" (as if that's anyone's obligation), but still throw it at the community in that state.

 

Sorry for not sugarcoating the situation and calling everyone who doesn't try out your map a meanie.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, boris said:

*Sigh* I didn't call your map hot garbage. I said that people might think it is by the way you made your post.

 

You're twisting my words. You're apparently in over your head on what you can do compared to what you want to do. What I'm saying is that instead of wanting to cram many features into your map without knowing how to do them, then ask (and that's perfectly fine), but then complain that you didn't include it in your map anyway since "no one was really helpful" (as if that's anyone's obligation), but still throw it at the community in that state.

 

Sorry for not sugarcoating the situation and calling everyone who doesn't try out your map a meanie.

I don't think we can understand eachother well lol. But that sigh was just gold.

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Well, presentation of the wad like clean screenshots (if it looks good, the better chances of grabbing viewers and get more interested), concise information (this include well written text and good understanding of what you said to the rest) and things needed in order to work is like having half or 3/4 parts of the job done, just like Boris said. The other half or 1/4 is the content, in this case, the wad itself.

 

Of course, if those guidelines aren't followed well.....it just ends up in a bad job from the maker. Simple as that.

The mapper can learn more experience and polish the skills to have more attention from the viewers. 

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maybe try to get other people from teh community involved ie try to find playtesters, or look up the people whose resources you've used and send 'em an advance copy and say "see how I've used your stuff, any good?" so that when you make yr release thread they might show up and say "i endorse this product and or event" or "are you sure you tested this level"

i never do any of this, i've always been on the side of a hypeless sudden release followed by becoming an unapproachable figure. doing work to distribute yr hobby frankly smacks of professionalism and im suspicious of everyone who's good at it

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1 hour ago, Finnthemapmaker said:

Dude you just called my map hot-garbage and told me not to ask stuff to look more humble. I ain't good with words but i think neither are you. I am may be shit at making maps but i still will doit cuz i have passion and will still upload them. Not that you are stoping me. 

Nobody called your map hot garbage, guy simply pointed out your description flaws and things you should avoid in your description, no need to be so angry. 

What mostly works for me:
1. Greetings and brief description of wad.
2.  Giving list of used iwad, compatibility, map slots, ports which I used for testing, download.
3. Screenshots for attention.
4. Some additional comments about maps and asking people to review my wad in good, helpful way.
5. Credits(if used things aren't that long)

I let my maps, description and screenshots to talk first, later when people find things to say, I respond and silently fix all noticed things and tell what's fixed. 

So, your thread would benefit if you redo list completely like this 

  • iwad
  • compatibility(gzdoom, boom, limit-removing... anything)
  • map slots without any much comments
  • ports which you used for testing
  • download link
  • freelook, crounch jump allowed/not allowed.


Most likely I would put story in spoilers for clearer presentation, but it's not me who decides. Additional comments would be below, like which map was first and which is last and all mapping struggles below. Credits would be also put in spoilers, because I'm not ready waste my time reading all credits, unless your map contains what I search. "Here pictures" would be where screenshots are. What else? You can read this thread too for it, it has very clear guidelines and example of tidy thread :

 

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2 minutes ago, Misty said:

Nobody called your map hot garbage, guy simply pointed out your description flaws and things you should avoid in your description, no need to be so angry. 

What mostly works for me:
1. Greetings and brief description of wad.
2.  Giving list of used iwad, compatibility, map slots, ports which I used for testing, download.
3. Screenshots for attention.
4. Some additional comments about maps and asking people to review my wad in good, helpful way.
5. Credits(if used things aren't that long)

I let my maps, description and screenshots to talk first, later when people find things to say, I respond and silently fix all noticed things and tell what's fixed. 

So, your thread would benefit if you redo list completely like this 

  • iwad
  • compatibility(gzdoom, boom, limit-removing... anything)
  • map slots without any much comments
  • ports which you used for testing
  • download link
  • freelook, crounch jump allowed/not allowed.


Most likely I would put story in spoilers for clearer presentation, but it's not me who decides. Additional comments would be below, like which map was first and which is last and all mapping struggles below. Credits would be also put in spoilers, because I'm not ready waste my time reading all credits, unless your map contains what I search. "Here pictures" would be where screenshots are. What else? You can read this thread too for it, it has very clear guidelines and example of tidy thread :

 

Ok

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Posted (edited)

I played a bit of your map, and then I looked at it in Doom Builder. One thing about being a new mapper is that releasing such a massive map is going to turn people off. Maybe try making a less ambitious release to get people to play through one of your maps? 

Or at the very least describe what gameplay features are in your map or leave your texture credits in the readme? 

Your map wasn't bad tho, from what I played there are just a few quality issues like missing textures. 

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6 minutes ago, Nymbus_Hustle said:

I played a bit of your map, and then I looked at it in Doom Builder. One thing about being a new mapper is that releasing such a massive map is going to turn people off. Maybe try making a less ambitious release to get people to play through one of your maps? 

Or at the very least describe what gameplay features are in your map or leave your texture credits in the readme? 

I am just happy that you actually played it a little.

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36 minutes ago, Finnthemapmaker said:

Ok

hello?...knock knock....did you learned something from what we said?

That "ok" seems that you didn't. 

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People will play your maps for a number of reasons. Number one is name recognition. Like it or not, fair or not, it is what it is. Number two is presentation. There was a "new" mapper who seemed to come out of nowhere whose screenshots were breathtaking and whose project thread was coherent and organized - became an acclaimed mapper before even releasing anything. And when he did release something, the gameplay itself seemed to be underwhelming (speculation based on people's comments - I personally never played the maps). But the presentation, particularly the screenshots, garnered attention. And number three is audience. This particular forum seems most likely to consume Boom compatible maps with a little bit of a nuance (slight conversion or some sort of gameplay gimmick). Crazy GZDoomage, not as much. Fullly vanilla with nothing new, not as much.

 

As for your wad, I honestly don't remember seeing it (I still won't play it though with required crouch and jump - see reason #3). Luck plays a role too, like how long something stays on the front page without new comments. Sometimes it's days; sometimes it's only a few hours.

 

If you want exposure, I suggest you work on making quality maps and presenting them well. If you're more interested in testers/feedback, perhaps this thread will help.

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6 hours ago, Finnthemapmaker said:

So what makes players play your maps and not get ignored ?

 

Luck.

 

Map making is the same as any other art form. Being talented isn't good enough. There are probably good wad makers out there that I have never heard off.

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50 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

 

Luck.

 

Map making is the same as any other art form. Being talented isn't good enough. There are probably good wad makers out there that I have never heard off.

 

I am 100% sure that it took more than just luck for things like BTSX, Sunder, Eviternity, Ancient Aliens, and Scythe to get noticed. You don't just release a magnum opus out of the blue one day. It takes months and even years of refinement for something substantial to come out and be as successful as it becomes. Boiling it all down to just 'luck' is grossly oversimplifying the map-making process and discrediting the hard work of a lot of talented people.

Basically gonna echo what other people in this thread have been saying and say that "baiting" people shouldn't be a priority when you're making a map or even just getting people to play it. It is a unique creation that should be able to stand on its own as the author intended without trying to actively get people to come to it. That will always happen naturally, and there's nothing wrong with releasing it on other communities or just messaging someone and asking them if they had some time to try out your creation. If your goal is indeed to get people to play something you made, the best advice I can give you is to just keep creating things and keep releasing them. Not simply make them "just to make them" either. Ascribe your own meanings to them and have a good time creating them, and eventually, people will naturally take notice and start playing them, perhaps even going back and playing some of your older, lesser known things. This community in general is so receptive that it's hard to release anything anymore and not have at least one or two people play it.

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46 minutes ago, Sparktimus said:

I am 100% sure that it took more than just luck for things like BTSX, Sunder, Eviternity, Ancient Aliens, and Scythe to get noticed. You don't just release a magnum opus out of the blue one day. It takes months and even years of refinement for something substantial to come out and be as successful as it becomes. Boiling it all down to just 'luck' is grossly oversimplifying the map-making process and discrediting the hard work of a lot of talented people.

As much as I agree, there are definitely people who have gotten less attention than they deserve, one such example would be "xdarkmasterx", who has put out maps quite frequently, many of which are worth having a closer look at. And that's where I'd have to agree with Hardcore_Gamer to a certain degree: Luck definitely helps, even though it isn't really required in the case of magnum opus projects because those find their way on people's hard drives eventually anyway. But let's not pretend everything that is being offered has that level of broad appeal (btsx, eviternity, AA, scythe) or "wow-factor" (sunder), nevermind that your usual "myfirstWAD" is just bound to not be a magnum opus by default.

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Usually i use chocolate chip cookies. Tempting, reasonably healthy bait which people from all walks of life can enjoy, even those vegan types. If, for some reason people arent playing my map i will go to the supermarket to buy strawberry laces to sweeten the deal. Everyone has a price!

For real though, just a simple, short, clearly worded post with a few of the best screenshots you can find (this is the most important aspect imo) is more than enough. Intended port, jump/crouch allowed or not, and a brief description of gameplay. "run and gun"... "fast paced easy map"... or "slaughtermaps" is plenty. Including a paragraph of lore and a million links thanking a massive list of people for 2 maps is unnecessary and will just become a TL:DR for most people. 

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1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

As much as I agree, there are definitely people who have gotten less attention than they deserve, one such example would be "xdarkmasterx", who has put out maps quite frequently, many of which are worth having a closer look at. And that's where I'd have to agree with Hardcore_Gamer to a certain degree: Luck definitely helps, even though it isn't really required in the case of magnum opus projects because those find their way on people's hard drives eventually anyway. But let's not pretend everything that is being offered has that level of broad appeal (btsx, eviternity, AA, scythe) or "wow-factor" (sunder), nevermind that your usual "myfirstWAD" is just bound to not be a magnum opus by default.

I don't doubt that there are many talented people who aren't on anyone's radar yet. That more or less comes down to how known they want to make their content. When I was posting my maps initially, I had some reservations of bringing it up or mentioning it in anyway in other places just because I didn't want it to seem like I was trying to hard to get people to notice it, so I can understand how it can be a tricky thing to "advertise" your content without seeming overbearing. I guess it would be more fair to say that getting your maps noticed by people is more of a combination of luck, skill, and hard work. Luck is indeed a factor, but it wouldn't be a fair assessment to say it's the only factor or even the biggest deciding factor I would say. At least, not in this era of Doom mapping. It would've been more of a factor in say they mid-90s when trying to find maps and their creators was a lot more taxing than it is now that we have places like Doomworld to refine that process, where people can easily share screenshots and videos of how a map looks and plays. There is little anymore that separates players and creators these days.

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5 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

hello?...knock knock....did you learned something from what we said?

That "ok" seems that you didn't. 

Yes you don't have to gang respond me. 

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I don't need to gang up on you for a response. If you want a direct response, you'll get it for sure. But that's not for this thread...

Anyway, I don't think that luck is a decisive factor in this and you won't rely on luck most of the time to get chances of being attracted and do the right job in my opinion. It's only what you're showing your work to the rest to see if someone is interested...you can call it some "marketing" if you want. 

 

Wanna know why? Because I also posted a couple of maps here and see that some people actually played my maps because it was interested on what I presented through the screenshots but it got forgotten slowly. If you want another example, take the Hurt map by elend. That was his second map and look how it went...I don't think it's sheer, dumb luck to be honest...

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Yo Finn,

 

I played through your map and recorded it. I'm uploading to youtube but it's a 20gb file so it'll take an hour to upload and like 5 hours for youtube to process it. I'll post on your map's thread with my feedback and the video.

In regards to getting people to play your stuff, I think the others who mentioned formatting have hit the nail on the head. If your thread looks clean / formatted well people will be much more likely to check it out. I try to play most new mappers wads as they come out but most people will skip over your thread if you're relatively unknown and post looks like a mess. The amount of people who post just a link to the wad with no screenshots or info is staggering.

 

I just realized your wad has two maps. The file is called map01.wad so I assumed it was just one map. That sorta stuff is what puts people off, it's best to look as professional and organized as possible. You put heaps of work into your map but then (seemingly) skimped on the logistics of releasing it. The thread @boris posted is a perfect example of how your thread should ideally look.

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@Finnthemapmaker

With regard to "being good with words" and writing good posts for your maps, writing is like anything else, it takes practice. In general, if you follow the guidelines laid out in CapnClever's post, you'll do a good job attracting attention. You're relatively new, so it will take time to gain name recognition. One of the things that will help you most in this is that you take the feedback that you get and you improve your mapping. No one is expecting you to be a combination of Ribbiks, Skilsaw, and Romero on day one. As long as the quality of what you release improves as you go, you write well-organized posts that include screenshots, and you don't get defensive, you'll go a long way.

 

One other thing, don't be self-deprecating in your posts (e.g. "try this map, even though it may not be good" or "have fun, I guess"). Sometimes self-deprecation can be endearing, but in this context, it doesn't fit. You may be trying to look humble, but you don't need to. No one thinks you're bragging about how epic your map and how much skill you have unless you say that (by the way, doing so will not be well-received). Writing "try this map and let me know what you think" is fairly neutral and open. Writing "try this map, because it will change your life with its quality" will come off as boastful and unwarranted. Writing "try this map, which may not be good, and try to have fun, I guess" comes off as being unconfident in your work. If you're not willing to fully stand behind what you've made, why should you expect anyone else to try it?

 

If you're looking for play testers, you could check out this link: 

 

 

With regard to mapping, I would generally say that, while there are probably mapsets that haven't received as much attention as they should have for their quality, there are probably a variety of reasons for that. They may not have been publicized well, they may not have had a wide release, etc. It is entirely possible that the mapper released one or two really good maps in the earlier days of the community and then stopped mapping (for whatever reason). This all being said, I think that with mapping, as in most things, the cream generally rises to the top. I think the highest quality mapsets do tend to be well-known and well-regarded and don't slip into obscurity--and this has little to do with luck.

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I uh, may not be a mapper or whatever, but as a player I am "baited" (by the way, extremely poor choice of words here, you want to get people interested in your stuff, doing otherwise implies there's something fishy going on and that it should be avoided) to play maps/wads by various screenshots or videos made by the authors themselves or others, and the description, so that I know what I'm getting myself into.

 

Basically, it all boils down to the presentation. If reading the description or seeing some footage fails to get me interested, I am simply not going to play it. But asking someone else for an opinion can also prove very useful.

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the word "baited" is kinda overstatement imo.

On 6/23/2019 at 10:22 PM, seed said:

Basically, it all boils down to the presentation. If reading the description or seeing some footage fails to get me interested, I am simply not going to play it. But asking someone else for an opinion can also prove very useful.

this.

 

Also, learn how to git gud in doing maps (that I still sucked on(how to make shit asymmetrical again?))

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