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ChicagoTrash

Making Doom realistic

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What would be your opinion on a wad that took the maps from Ultimate Doom and tried to make them realistic? It would add stuff like furniture, vents and a few retexturings to the UAC bases. 

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it'd require more than that, I feel. From the "8mu = 1 foot" scale id's thrown around a few times, you learn that Doom levels are fucking gigantic. Scaling them down to a size where someone would be willing to walk through them to work would require pretty extensive changes, and it doesn't work so well when your player is car speed rather than human speed.

 

It's all possible, of course, but the resultant WAD would not be Doom at all anymore.

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Posted (edited)

For an idea of this realistic concept, take a look at Hellbound and Hellcore 2.0. MAP17 of Hellbound and MAP04 of Hellcore 2.0 are some of the best looking "realistic" maps done in the doom engine. Duke Nukem 3D is also a good one to look at for realistic environments in this kind of engine.

11 minutes ago, SaladBadger said:

From the "8mu = 1 foot" scale id's thrown around a few times, you learn that Doom levels are fucking gigantic.

Even this doesnt work too well, cause the scale is not consistently used. Different objects have different size scales used, and vertical scale in particular looks different than horizontal scale. You kinda need to just get a feel if the size seems right. Doom itself was designed in a very abstract way, compared to something like Duke Nukem 3D.

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Posted (edited)

Triple the damage given and taken, reduce the time it takes enemies to attack upon seeing you. Implement light based vision so they can't attack you from across the map (or just use this).

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Doom's maps are far too abstract to try to create a " realistic " recreation of. You could maybe do it for episode 1, but episodes 2 and 3 would be nearly impossible. The level designs are extremely chaotic and plain weird which is honestly their strongest points. If these maps were normalized I think a lot of the fun would be sapped from them. Personally, I have a strong dislike for " realistic " mapping. It just doesn't lend itself well to the doom engine and results in a very tacky and overwhelming aesthetic.

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The idea of realism was abandoned during Doom's development precisely because abstract design made for better gameplay. I tend to agree.

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This hypothetical wad wouldn't affect player speed or the 8mu scale. It would mostly be an attempt at making the setting feel more lived-in. So maybe adding a pipe here or a chair there. This could also extend to adding stuff that make the levels resemble their names (adding a runway to Hangar or small test tubes with demons inside to Phobos Labs)

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Brutal Doom has realism options.

1: A script to include props and details to the classic Wads (chairs, cars, trees etc)

2: Realism modes such as you dishing out 2X damage and the enemy doing 7X

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What @Chezza said. Brutal Doom's 'official' campaign is pretty much "realism in Doom as much as possible". Most of the bases are designed to be recognizable, with layouts, fixtures and other features that keep the maps grounded. The downtown areas in particular try hard to simulate an actual street war, and do a  pretty good job if I may say so. 

 

One could also potentially argue that Doom 3 is also "Realism in Doom", insofar as we can use the term for "Martian outpost with space marines and demons". It's areas are trying to be visually plausible, with recognizable things all over the game. All while being a straight up remake of Ultimate Doom. 

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I'll just leave this here...

 

Dawn Of Reality

 

Seriously, this map showcases the typical level of realism that you can hope to achieve in Doom. Most of it is achieved through geometry, rather than hi-res textures (of which IIRC, there weren't any). With some suspension of disbelief it actually works, but it has more of a "Doom-based dream" quality than actual reality, IMO.

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4 hours ago, Chezza said:

Brutal Doom has realism options

Wanna know an even more realistic mod? Hideous Destructor.

 

I always think that 32 height units are the "equal" to 1 meter for some reason.

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17 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

Wanna know an even more realistic mod? Hideous Destructor.

 

I always think that 32 height units are the "equal" to 1 meter for some reason.

 

Hmmh, that would make a normal door 4 meters high. :)

 

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7 minutes ago, theDia said:

 

Hmmh, that would make a normal door 4 meters high. :)

 

A 128 one? Yea lol

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30 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

Wanna know an even more realistic mod? Hideous Destructor.

 

I always think that 32 height units are the "equal" to 1 meter for some reason.

 

12 minutes ago, theDia said:

 

Hmmh, that would make a normal door 4 meters high. :)

 

 

Well, it makes sense if you consider that Doomguy's (and most former humans, too) is 56 units tall.That should be close to 2 meters (like 1.80 maybe, considering these are Marines, not scrawny accountants).

 

The eye/camera level however is at 42 units....and the scale is quite different vertically/horizontally. There's a semi-official equivalence given by Carmack once that 16 mu are one foot horizontally (and hey, being Doom an All-American Game, they wouldn't use no stinkin' euro commie pinko meters now, would they?). An obscure #define in Heretic's source code (finding it is left as an exercise to the reader) gives a 10 units/ft equivalence for height...and that's it.

 

Even more interesting things will happen if you start translating Doomguy's various speeds into real speeds...and even better if you try calculating how strong the "gravitational constant" actually is in Doom.

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@Maesso, you say that Doom's whole gravity is almost 5x stronger than Earth??? 

Poorguy needed a gravity suit or something...

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10 hours ago, ChicagoTrash said:

This hypothetical wad wouldn't affect player speed or the 8mu scale. It would mostly be an attempt at making the setting feel more lived-in. So maybe adding a pipe here or a chair there. This could also extend to adding stuff that make the levels resemble their names (adding a runway to Hangar or small test tubes with demons inside to Phobos Labs)

 

Gotta be careful with extra detail. It's all too easy for players to get stuck on all the little bits of detail and that completely wrecks gameplay.

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25 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

@Maesso, you say that Doom's whole gravity is almost 5x stronger than Earth??? 

Poorguy needed a gravity suit or something...

More like 4x, but pretty strong anyway. Just watch e.g. how quickly a shot-down cacodemon drops to the ground. There aren't many situations where you can normally appreciate this effect in vanilla, other than shooting down a cacodemon over a large drop or watching another player jumping down a tall cliff, but with limit removing levels that go overboard with architecture and scale, have monsters that can drop from cliffs, large architecture and freelook, it becomes more apparent.

 

A more obvious way is to enable gravity for most projectiles: the pull is so strong and most of them travel so slowly they they hardly manage to travel more than a 100 or so units before crashing into the ground with a quite steep arc, jarringly contradicting what you'd expect IRL from something moving at those speeds.

 

I think Doomguy's "jumping" is only possible because he gets a leeway of a few tics since getting airborne, before gravity actually gets applied to him, otherwise the feasible "jumping" distances would be quite shorter. Monsters and projectiles OTOH get no such leeway, and esp. with moving projectiles the effect of gravity is quite dramatic, as it gets applied immediately.

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One thing I always say about to Doom and doom maps is, "It's Doom. It doesn't have to make sense." Abstract and nonsensical design just looks really cool in my opinion.

 

That being said, I would definitely play a wad that reimagines a more realistic Doom. Realism in doom can work and can be very interesting if done right. Care has to be taken though so that the level architecture doesn't become boring.

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28 minutes ago, OrbitalSpaceGarbage said:

 

Gotta be careful with extra detail. It's all too easy for players to get stuck on all the little bits of detail and that completely wrecks gameplay.

 

Gothic 99 anyone?

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Doomguy can carry only 3 weapons and, with backpack, you get more ammo and bfg is a one-shot-discard-able use due of being heavy....sucks...

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37 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

Doomguy can carry only 3 weapons and, with backpack, you get more ammo and bfg is a one-shot-discard-able use due of being heavy....sucks...

Doom Nukem Forever

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23 hours ago, ChicagoTrash said:

What would be your opinion on a wad that took the maps from Ultimate Doom and tried to make them realistic? It would add stuff like furniture, vents and a few retexturings to the UAC bases. 

If you want inspiration, there's always stuff that is dubbed "russian realism". Here's an example:
https://onemandoom.blogspot.com/2014/10/bloody-steel-bldstlpwad.html

 

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I'd highly endorse a version of Doom that is packed to the gills with sector furniture, especially toilets. 

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31 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

I'd highly endorse a version of Doom that is packed to the gills with sector furniture, especially toilets. 

thanks for the idea

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5 hours ago, rdwpa said:

I'd highly endorse a version of Doom that is packed to the gills with sector furniture, especially toilets. 

That's sort of what I'm making.

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8 hours ago, rdwpa said:

I'd highly endorse a version of Doom that is packed to the gills with sector furniture, especially toilets. 

 

Cough ObAddon Cough

Occasionally you'll find toilet based fabs on maps.

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Posted (edited)

I know BD is not exactly the beloved mod around these parts but if we are talking about wads with details then I'll do more self promoting of my 9 mapset wad. It's for V20b BD and has chairs, tables, machines, pipes, detailed damages etc.

 

It's called Operation UAC

 

The biggest criticism I received is lighting though but the details are great if I don't say so myself.

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10 hours ago, rdwpa said:

I'd highly endorse a version of Doom that is packed to the gills with sector furniture, especially toilets. 

 

It'sa comin'

 

These are old screenshots so stuff has been tweaked (thinner blades on extraction fan etc)

 

Spoiler

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DOcBEUu.png

RjUwx0O.jpg

 

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