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R1ck

why people hate [doom/2] monsters so much?

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12 hours ago, Solmyr said:

How can anyone hate Lost Souls?

 

Ammo sponges. Nuff said.

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9 hours ago, Jello said:

Basically, the enemies that can do a shitload of damage and are either line of sight, hit scan, or have seeking attacks, and are stuck in cages or behind false textures halfway across the map.

 

You'd hate my maps... hahaha... I dig the ol' "Arch-Vile behind the false wall trick" ;)

I have a penchant for Lost Soul spitting walls too :p

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I hate Arch-Vile's with a burning passion. Having to kill one is hard enough, but having to kill multiple of them while they're resurrecting other demons I've already killed REALLY PISSES ME OFF.

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8 minutes ago, DoomSpud said:

 

Ammo sponges. Nuff said.

You just described the Baron of Hell.

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5 minutes ago, Solmyr said:

You just described the Baron of Hell.

 

Yeah, in vanilla Doom perhaps, to a degree... but Brutal Doom's Baron of Hell with it's triple fireball in a tight corrider is a death sentence.

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6 hours ago, Bridgeburner56 said:

If you hate lost souls you should use the rocket launcher more. Nothing more satisfying than firing into a cluster and watching 4-5 of them get jettisoned into oblivion. The added risk of face rocketing one makes it even more enjoyable. The rocket launcher is always my weapon of choice for fighting pain elementals if I can get away with it.

 

 

 

This.  I actually prefer using the rl over the pg against souls.  More economical and thrilling too. Just keep circling to avoid one flying directly at you. However I prefer mods where they die to a single shotgun shell.

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Posted (edited)

TBQH, none of the "normal" original Doom monsters was that dangerous or complex in terms of combat compared to what came in Doom 2. There wasn't a zombie capable of draining your life in mere seconds just like a Spider Mastermind (chaingunner), or a tough monster with almost as much life as a Cacodemon whose missiles also kept homing-in on you (Revenant), or ammo sponges/spammers like the arachnotron/mancs. And let's not even mention Pain Elementals or Archviles.

 

The original Doom's bestiary seems quite tame and plain in comparison, to the point of being boring. Actually, it had quite a lot of niche gaps and unfulfilled roles.

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10 hours ago, Loud Silence said:

Of course everybody hates... and kills Doom monsters.

...Except for those pacifist run weirdos 

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I think when people say they "hate" "MONSTER" they don't really hate them (except maybe Chaingunners in Plutonia). They do not turn off the player's wish to continue playing, but just annoy the player. So it's more of annoyance than hate. 

 

Contrary to what I said I do not hate the Chaingunners, even in Plutonia. They make their part of the WAD. Gives you a more tactical feel than of the previous games.  Same with the Revenants there IIRC.

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I dislike lost souls because they have too much health for their role in the game. They all too quickly become clutter, and one of the only weapons that can one-shot them (rocket launcher) is a liability because of their tendency to rush your face. They always become a priority in a mix of monsters because they get in the way of your movement and attacks, and that gets old fast. Pinkies already fill that role, and in a more manageable form that doesn't feel like an arbitrary slog.

 

I think their Doom 2016 incarnation played much better. I'm all for a challenge, but lost souls aren't an enjoyable challenge.

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You might be able to guess my favorite monster by my avatar. The ones I don't like much are Barons and Arachnotrons. Barons take too long to kill and Arachnotrons have such a huge collision box you have to map around them instead of placing them wherever they fit like other monsters. That does apply to Masterminds too, but since that's a boss monster I don't count it. 

 

I don't mention Lost Souls because imo they are deliberately designed to be annoying and they accomplish that perfectly. 

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5 hours ago, DoomSpud said:

NOTHING shits me more than walking into an arena full of Revenants... seriously, trying to outrun 20 homing missiles stuck up your arse get's tiring very quickly... a couple on their own are okay but Revenants get spammed in some wads to the point of it no longer being enjoyable.

You must try this map by @Misty 

Pretty amounts of Revenants well mixed with Arch-Ville and others (in clever way) grants best action.

5 hours ago, DoomSpud said:

Ammo sponges. Nuff said.

Don't be funny, please. Chainsaw and Berserk fists does not use ammo at all. Also two shots from Shotgun or one from SSG is not much.

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Posted (edited)

I never fully understood the hatred for lost souls. Sure they're a pain on-mass but most enemies are (even former humans). Personally I find Pain elementals more threatening just because its more ammo I have to waste. And I hate wasting ammo on the BFG when every shot fired from it could help feed a homeless plasma rifle. :,(

 

Now the main reason I hate the enemies I hate are:

 

Chaingunners - DAT. F***ING ACCURACY. HOW. Also RIP my health bar it was nice knowing ya. Seriously just 2 of them alone can be considered a high threat.

 

Archviles - They can resurrect almost any dead enemy (besides lost souls, other viles, Pain elementals AKA Potatoes, cybies, spider masterminds and I'm not sure on Barons). Not only that but their attack does a LOT of damage! Also I wanna say they're on-par or faster than a pinky demon and tankier than a mancubus or revenant.

 

Revenant - I don't hate revenants a whole lot but compared to most enemies they're annoying. The 50% homing rate (if I researched that correctly) is a bit of a pain and they do hurt quite a lot but their homing rockets can easily be kited into a wall or another enemy and they die in 2-3 super shotgun blasts so they're okay.

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1 hour ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Archviles - They can resurrect almost any dead enemy (besides lost souls, other viles, Pain elementals AKA Potatoes, cybies, spider masterminds and I'm not sure on Barons).

they usually resurrect anything that leaves a corpse and isn't a cybie, SMM, or another vile. So yes, they can resurrect Barons, and under certain conditions they can actually resurrect monsters that wouldn't leave corpses if those get crushed into a puddle of mush soon after dying (in which case there's a corpse to resurrect)

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but I liked Revs though. they are fun to fight

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12 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

they usually resurrect anything that leaves a corpse and isn't a cybie, SMM, or another vile. So yes, they can resurrect Barons, and under certain conditions they can actually resurrect monsters that wouldn't leave corpses if those get crushed into a puddle of mush soon after dying (in which case there's a corpse to resurrect)

 

If a body is mashed under a crusher or sliding door, is it still possible for Viles to resurrect?

 

Lost souls are not a problem as long as you take care of their maker quickly. It's when they come by numbers that they get really annoying.

But Viles are on another level when they are shielding behind other demons while targeting you with their fire spell whereas you cannot directly aim at them to take them down.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Kyoh1 said:

If a body is mashed under a crusher or sliding door, is it still possible for Viles to resurrect?

 

Yes, that's the whole premise behind the ghost monster bug. Even monsters that normally don't leave a corpse can be resurrected this way, however they must still have a resurrection sequence in their frames. E.g. Lost Souls don't have one, so even if they leave a pool of gore, they cannot be resurrected. The PE is an anomaly in that it DOES have a resurrection sequence, but it normally leaves no corpse to resurrect...so it technically only be resurrected as a ghost.

 

Edit: I wonder if a crusher just happens to "kill" a projectile with the right timing...will that leave a "corpse"?

Edited by Maes

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All hitscanners are the enemies that are the bain of my existence.

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9 minutes ago, Maes said:

 

Yes, that's the whole premise behind the ghost monster bug. Even monsters that normally don't leave a corpse can be resurrected this way, however they must still have a resurrection sequence in their frames. E.g. Lost Souls don't have one, so even if they leave a pool of gore, they cannot be resurrected. The PE is an anomaly in that it DOES have a resurrection sequence, but it normally leaves no corpse to resurrect...so it technically only be resurrected as a ghost.

 

Haha, I should have paid attention to the discussion upwards, but thanks for the detailled explanation.

I actually never seen that occured, but since it is rare case, it's no wonder.

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4 minutes ago, pcorf said:

Shotgun guys ...... f******!!!!

 

I once took the full brunt of a shotgun sergeant's hot, manly lead (-45HP) and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

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1 hour ago, pcorf said:

Shotgun guys ...... f******!!!!

don't really hate them, accept when one of them came to me from behind.

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2 hours ago, Maes said:

I once took the full brunt of a shotgun sergeant's hot, manly load (-45HP) and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

Ftfy :D

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On 6/27/2019 at 7:43 AM, Liberation said:

I sometimes think that lost souls have a bit too much health, but that's not really a complaint.

This is the issue I have with them, sometimes they feel a little 'bullet-spongy' to me. I would actually not have an issue with a higher Pain-Elemental spawn-rate, if the souls could all be killed with only ONE single-shotgun blast. Then again, their health is a small gripe to me - I still feel they are relatively balanced as an enemy.

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2 hours ago, Fonze said:

 

Ftfy :D

 

I should have specified it was magnum load lead.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Arrowhead12 said:

I would actually not have an issue with a higher Pain-Elemental spawn-rate, if the souls could all be killed with only ONE single-shotgun blast.

IIRC there's about 1/64 chance that a single shotgun blast will deal 100 damage, so one can always hope ;-)

 

Here's an old post I made on the subject.

Edited by Maes

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16 minutes ago, Liberation said:

@Arrowhead12Eviternity has lost souls with lower health, made a nice change. But then the Wad had another nasty flying creature anyway :-)

I will have to stop putting that off, and play it then! Just finished Lunar Catastrophe, so will probably play some shorter stuff first. But that definitely moves Eviternity up the list!

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