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bpeterson

[WIP] Some sprites, nothing impressive I'm afraid

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Posted (edited)

Thought I'd show a couple things I've been working on. They're all still work-in-progress.

 

A bit of a Frakensprite -- combination of rendering a CC0-licensed 3D model of Raymoonhawk's Octaminator with copy-pasted bits of his unfinished Octaminator spritesheet

 

SKELJ1 on the right, SKELK1 on the left.

 

Once I find a good public domain flameburst or something, I'll edit that in for the missile launchers. :)

 

Quote

Well, that's an effort alright, but it would look better if you did xyz...

 

It probably would, yes, but I have only a little more idea of what I'm doing than a certain meme dog-at-a-computer does. The only reason I even tentatively touched @raymoohawk's spritework is because 0) there's also a 3D model to work from for perspective comparison and 1) the firing frames are seen for like all of two seconds, and you're too busy trying to dodge and saying, "oh shit oh shit is that a tracker oh shit run like a pansy" while it's displayed. :P

 

I'm also toying around a bit with an HD item sprite pack, as I feel like it. I don't strictly follow the current designs -- the latest health bonus pickup in git, for example, looks like it's trying to be a fantasy health potion, like classic Doom, but in a techy bottle that uses a letter that exists in only some country's primary alphabets to indicate what it is. It... just doesn't feel right. I like the v0.11.3 version, but editing the color of the cross to remove the international copyright violation did, indeed, result in something that didn't look great on my first attempt. I'll try again later, I suppose.

 

I plan to re-do these without the plasma+cloud effects extending to the upper/lower blue lines... and, probably, with smoothly-curving ends.

BON1A0 through BON1D0 sprites

 

 

This one was the first I did -- I was working on a more realistic design, with a lid and (stuck-on-the-side) latch and everything yesterday, but it's not ready yet. Right now, it looks too much like a real box of modern times, and not enough like the "futuristic, yet practical, keeping in mind that 'MIL-SPEC' means 'made by the lowest bidder, to very strictly-specified levels of quality" rule I have in mind for anything new I try making. :P

 

1214135961_AMMOA0Cycles-scaled.png.ec9af36af78f7c9871a09b8098c347e4.png

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So, I modeled ELECA0 to the best of my ability... I didn't get every detail in though, because I'm not quite sure what's going on in the design. It's as if it has an inner, armored conduit, then an outside shell that's been badly damaged. The overall design could be quite cool, but there simply aren't enough pixels in a 34x128 sprite to do it justice, in my amateur opinion.

 

Anyhow, here's my version, rendered at 1024x2048, color curves fiddled with, scaled down, and tweaked.

 

283461317_ELECA0scaled.png.a56468e460d4d427a792d99e661432d9.png

 

High resolution version, with Freestyle overlay, in spoiler. It needs scratches, dings, and dirt.

Spoiler

579021977_ELECA0Hires.png.93bb8020e6e5b86ac0c97053735005dc.png

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I like your take on the pillar, albeit it would be nice to have a look on it in-game.

 

As for the Octo the tentacles that come from the model are visibly very rough on the edges. I understand that this is still WIP but unless you come up with a way to reconcile both art styles there's quite a noticeable clash between the upper hand-drawn body and the lower pre-rendered tentacles. At least, this is how it feels to me :)

 

I'd rather prefer if you just made the whole model into a set of sprites, Doom 64 style, as was originally suggested. Would be pretty interesting. BTW does the model actually have any animations? I have too vague an idea of how Blender works, but IIRC raymoohawk commissioned the model to use as a reference for animation frames of his hand-drawn version.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, MrFlibble said:

I like your take on the pillar, albeit it would be nice to have a look on it in-game.

 

252703885_ELECA0hi-res.png.e6210fdc6240d0d71da1bbfb73b3fe51.png1924789257_ELECA0low-res.png.a25fea30077932f81b0729cad58bbb53.png

 

Sector Light Mode: Bright, no sprite upscaling enabled. The screenshots are downscaled to 480x300 so as to not kill peoples' (i.e., my) data plans, but you get the picture. :) Edit: Perhaps a bit more color tweaking is needed, to make the low- and high-res versions match up better.

 

Pay no attention to the background, this is just my testing map. Has a copy of most of the monsters (as allies) and most of the items, a room full of lamps plus a candle and a barrel, and a room with a single Dark Soldier/Octaminator whose quantum uncertainty of identity, depending on which direction it is viewed from, has driven it insane FOR SCIENCE!!!!1! (The science of SKAG blast analysis, heh heh...)

 

52 minutes ago, MrFlibble said:

As for the Octo the tentacles that come from the model are visibly very rough on the edges. I understand that this is still WIP but unless you come up with a way to reconcile both art styles there's quite a noticeable clash between the upper hand-drawn body and the lower pre-rendered tentacles. At least, this is how it feels to me :)

 

I'd rather prefer if you just made the whole model into a set of sprites, Doom 64 style, as was originally suggested. Would be pretty interesting. BTW does the model actually have any animations? I have too vague an idea of how Blender works, but IIRC raymoohawk commissioned the model to use as a reference for animation frames of his hand-drawn version.

 

Yeah, I'm not liking the combination either, and my pixel-art skills are nowhere near up to the task. I'm doing my best with Bumpmap -> Glare layer tricks in GIMP, but I still have to splice in tentacles from the render, and the color is waaay off despite my tweaks and compositor finagling. The frames are only seen for a couple seconds at a time in-game, so it's not bad -- you can splice them into a quick wad and take a look. ...I might've gotten them named backwards, though. :embarassed:

 

On the other hand, as the model stands it's not quite up to the job of rendering out and looking like the concept gif or the partial spritesheet. The head, for example, is basically just a UV sphere with a small section recessed and made glowing red, with a section immediately above extruded out for a visor. Looks very little like the concept art there, or in the gut armor section.

 

The low-poly version of the mesh has both textures and animations. I copied over the animation to the hi-poly version, but ended up basically completely redoing it to get rid of clipping issues. This was and remains a pain, because the original rigger used direct kinematics (have to adjust each bone of the rig from the 'root' down to the 'tip' manually) instead of setting up inverse kinematics (move a couple control bones and the rest move appropriately with them), and my efforts to set it up myself proved inept and unsuccessful. Even if this approach was used, there would still need to be pixel cleanup and the little glare/barrel-flash bits added afterwards. Similar total amount of learning and work, I suspect.

 

tl;dr: The model has issues preventing that approach at this time, and I'm working on it off-and-on. It's available via the link in my first post, if anyone with better skills wants to take a look.

 

Best I can hope to do is keep practicing!

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What method do you use to scale down the sprites? It seems like it could be nearest neighbour.

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Posted (edited)

For sprites, I use None (so, Nearest Neighbor), Cubic, or Sinc (Lanczos3) in GIMP, and decide which version needs the least work afterwards. :) If it's a sprite that has multiple rotations, I then stick with that method for consistency's sake.

 

Edit: I may end up taking a break from the Octaminator, and coming back to it when my skills are better. ...I did find a CC0-licensed rigged skeleton, I could try making a better neo-Archivile with it. I'm kinda fond of the technicolor skeleton, I'm just not sure how to fit it with the Half-Life crossed with Quake 2 "aliens enslaved by eldritch abomination" plot that's floating around here. ...a flash of inspiration I gotta write down aside.

Edited by bpeterson

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The low-res pillar looks like it could've been scaled down with nearest, with some jaggy and uneven edges.

 

During my experiments with neural upscaling, I've come to avoid nearest neighbour exactly because it produces unsatisfactory results when it comes to any kind of symmetry of shape. In my attempts at producing 2x upscales from 4x ESRGAN output, the best solution (as explained in the thread I linked to) seemed to scale the image down to desired proportions with Bicubic, then in mtPaint apply Kuwahara-Nagao blur at 1 pixel radius and then convert the image, again in mtPaint, to the target 8-bit palette. That would produce a mask with good sprite edges, then to be copied over the original scaled-down image (pre-Kuwahara-Nagao blurring). I think that this might work with other types of scaled down images too.

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Posted (edited)

From my quick re-do to check, no, that jaggedness in the sprite is just the result of a Sinc downscale from 428x2046 down to 27x128, followed by conversion to the Doom palette and cleanup.

 

The screenshots were nearest or cubic, I think? I didn't really pay attention there, sorry. The point there was to give an overall view of how they look in a room of default brightness.

 

Your method of upscaling in the other thread was very cool! I'm going the opposite direction, however, which presents its own set of challenges. :) I'll try out your suggestions for it when I get the chance.

Edited by bpeterson

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Just the fact that you're doing custom sprites is impressive alone. Keep at it! Do these use the Doom color palette?

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3 hours ago, geo said:

Just the fact that you're doing custom sprites is impressive alone. Keep at it!

 

Aw shucks, you make me blush! I really can't, in good faith, take full credit for any of these so far -- the designs are from other people, and frankly I'm ashamed of my attempts re: the Octaminator so far. Best bit I've done so far is snip out the individual sprites from the incomplete sheet and stick them in a wad for testing my little attempts.

 

Ignore their frantic gesticulations -- any similarity to sign language begging for release from their torment is a complete coincidence, and they don't have death frames anyway. (Those will have to be completely custom... ouch.)

 

4 hours ago, geo said:

Do these use the Doom color palette?

 

The "standard definition" ones do, like the Frankensprited half-done firing versions of raymoonhawk's work and my remake of the existing ELECA0 column. The high definition ones, no -- there's no point in kowtowing to the limitations of a 256-color palette if you're taking advantage of a source port's capability of using massively-larger artwork anyway. ;)

 

That said, I haven't veered far from it either, as I want things that don't glow or whatever to blend in relatively well. The biggest shifts away are because, best I can find through my research, there's no way yet figured out to limit Blender's compositor to a specific set of colors. I just convert it in GIMP afterwards. (Yes, yes, I'll figure out mtPaint eventually. Maybe. I'm better off learning one thing at a time.)

 

I haven't noticed all that huge a loss in fidelity by converting the HD stuff to the Doom pallete via a pipeline in GIMP 2.8 of Image -> Mode -> Indexed -> <choose Doom palette> , so far. The health bonuses get a bit weird in the fog-plasma parts, that's about it. :) Still, unless I'm really bored, I'm not going to test each and every sprite to see if they're completely compatible, just visually close enough, until much much later, at least.

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Posted (edited)

Various edited versions of the "old" BON1*0 sprites, upscaled to 5x without interpolation for clarity in browsers which absolutely insist on applying filtering grumble grumble.

 

Demo.png.8fde6f6d03d4db3346566e42890de91f.png

 

Will tweak the HD version later, after I've altered the model.


Edit: The 532x758-sized HD versions, conglomerated into another inconvenient-to-use package, in spoiler:

Spoiler

 

Demo.png.100b4b484ec822657c57bc587e57aca4.pngScreenshot_Doom_20190704_223206.png.4c5bdd9549d967b494380edaca7e6e50.png


 

Hope y'all like them -- this is probably the last work I'll do on BON1[A-D]0, except maybe to reposition the ISO first-aid symbol.

Edited by bpeterson : Added the HD version of the sprite and a screenshot with them in it.

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the last one from the pixels version seens the best of them so far, i really like of your work on this item.

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As you now get me thinking of the oldest available release of Freedoom… Those sprited 3D models of the long buff boi centipedes, and half eaten foating bowl of upside down tentacles and it's cooked brother, looked rather weird as placeholder monster designs at the time.

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Are the health bonuses supposed to be turning upside down, or the green cross is moving down?

 

Anyway, I believe that the latest version of the H mark bonus pickups made by raymoohawk are just perfect.

On 7/10/2019 at 11:05 PM, Starman the Blaziken said:

As you now get me thinking of the oldest available release of Freedoom… Those sprited 3D models of the long buff boi centipedes, and half eaten foating bowl of upside down tentacles and it's cooked brother, looked rather weird as placeholder monster designs at the time.

I'm very nostalgic about these. I remember not liking the orb monster at first, and wishing it replaced (thanks to raymoohawk for making it happen!), but now it seems pretty fine to me.

 

In fact, if you compare the old Freed∞m art to that of some less well known 2.5D FPS games that came out in the 90s after Doom, like Quiver, which is actually not as bad as it might appear at first, or the even less appealing Angst: Rahz's Revenge, you'd probably agree that the old versions of Freed∞m are in fact pretty decent on the visual side.

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49 minutes ago, MrFlibble said:

I'm very nostalgic about these. I remember not liking the orb monster at first, and wishing it replaced (thanks to raymoohawk for making it happen!), but now it seems pretty fine to me.

Let's re-use all the discarted sprites and maps and create Final Freedoom :P

 

Quick question: What are the health bonuses? I wanted to add some images to the instruction manual, but I don't know in what category place them. The original Doom manuals placed the potions with all the otherwordly artifacts. But here, I don't know if they are magical.

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1 hour ago, The Maverick013 said:

Quick question: What are the health bonuses? I wanted to add some images to the instruction manual, but I don't know in what category place them. The original Doom manuals placed the potions with all the otherwordly artifacts. But here, I don't know if they are magical.

Actually those blue bottles in Doom in actor-wise are called water bottles. Maybe just a sorts of healing water, or just oddly shiny water that attracts Doom Guy's face.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/3/2019 at 6:28 AM, bpeterson said:

tl;dr: The model has issues preventing that approach at this time, and I'm working on it off-and-on. It's available via the link in my first post, if anyone with better skills wants to take a look.

 

Best I can hope to do is keep practicing!

That's the spirit. If you practice everyday (or off-and-on, as you said), you'll get better at it. Take it from me...

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Posted (edited)
On 7/15/2019 at 5:12 PM, MrFlibble said:

Are the health bonuses supposed to be turning upside down, or the green cross is moving down?

 

Anyway, I believe that the latest version of the H mark bonus pickups made by raymoohawk are just perfect.

I'm very nostalgic about these. I remember not liking the orb monster at first, and wishing it replaced (thanks to raymoohawk for making it happen!), but now it seems pretty fine to me.

 

In fact, if you compare the old Freed∞m art to that of some less well known 2.5D FPS games that came out in the 90s after Doom, like Quiver, which is actually not as bad as it might appear at first, or the even less appealing Angst: Rahz's Revenge, you'd probably agree that the old versions of Freed∞m are in fact pretty decent on the visual side.

 

I moved them down solely because the white-background version looked better with the cross lower. I did try a white-cross, green background version of the standard-size version at some point, but it looked worse iirc.

 

With all respect to raymoohawk's far superior art chops... I'm not a fan of the H-marked bonus pickups. Leaving the Japanese meaning aside, there is an international standard symbol that means "first aid", and doesn't have the downsides of locking graphics to a single language -- though it does have the issue wrt Doom's severely limited number of shades of green. >_>

 

"AGM" gets a pass for being an in-universe registered trademark; having a particular alphabet's letter, or a specfic language's words, printed on a product produced for international/interplanetary/whatever scale sales though? That breaks my suspension of disbelief, and that's *before* the issues with real-world localization, the greater (though still distant) similarity to the bottles of iD's DOOM, or the weird "latch" bit on the large first aid kid.

 

...I suppose it wouldn't be all that difficult of an edit, I'll think about trying it.

 

On 7/15/2019 at 6:09 PM, The Maverick013 said:

Let's re-use all the discarted sprites and maps and create Final Freedoom :P

 

Let's keep our sights on getting the core project *done* first. Blasphemer and Zauberer are pretty much in cryofreeze, because there simply aren't enough artists willing to contribute to a liberally-licensed project with historically lacking story for free as is, and many of those who are willing aren't skilled at pixel-art and instead go to OpenArena, Warsow, Xonotic, or UFO: Alien Invasion to help there. Even the artists who do contribute quality material to Freedoom end up leaving, whether from taking jobs with foolish contract clauses prohibiting outside work, or from disillusionment from having their contributions tossed aside, or whatever other reasons they have.

 

Also, I dunno if you've looked through the attic repo, or one of the "leftovers" mods, but most of the thrown-out sprites are worse. I'm fond of a few of the off-center weapons, and the predecessor of the current worm demon-replacement looks high-enough quality (in my brief play) to reuse elsewhere, but the rest isn't up to snuff.

 

On 7/15/2019 at 6:09 PM, The Maverick013 said:

Quick question: What are the health bonuses? I wanted to add some images to the instruction manual, but I don't know in what category place them. The original Doom manuals placed the potions with all the otherwordly artifacts. But here, I don't know if they are magical.

 

In my head, the Freedoom healing bonuses are medical nanomachines suspended in a fluid which both assists in bloodstream injection via hypospray (ITEMS NOT DRAWN TO SCALE), provides base proteins for said machines to use to rebuild injured tissues, and reduces inflammation. The machines stick around in the bloodstream and activate based on injury-stress hormone release, explaining the over-100%-health ability.

 

I am not a doctor, take this headcanon with a grain of salt. :P

 

On 7/15/2019 at 8:10 PM, Starman the Blaziken said:

Actually those blue bottles in Doom in actor-wise are called water bottles. Maybe just a sorts of healing water, or just oddly shiny water that attracts Doom Guy's face.

 

Given the demons, let's say it's Holy Water. :P If you look through Romero's git archive of all the discarded development assets, you'll find a book with a crucifix on it on one of the spritesheets, so it would fit thematically... just... not really mechanically.

Edited by bpeterson

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Posted (edited)

Well, apparently I'm a liar, because here's more BON1*0 stuff that isn't simply relocating a symbol on the HD version. Oh, and for consistency, MEDIA0 and STIMA0.

 

demo.png.946c23ef077e9b7cb13f29187760da60.pngmedia0-demo.png.0f1fbb70dcfbb374e4ccaceca8d54ee5.pngstima0-demo.png.c8b0a89555da692105164a8b94b64004.png

Screenshot in spoiler, taken at 1920x1200, GZDoom's "Doom Software Renderer", bright lighting mode, no sprite upscaling,

Spoiler

 

Screenshot_Doom_20190718_154644.png.ff032458f352d756d0e28ba3ebe9ada0.png

Screenshot_Doom_20190718_192900.png.9ccd904aa1b37ea808098af8bda055a1.png

 

 

 

 

And, what do you know, I actually put them in a WAD for use. Can't get it to work with chocolate-doom, for some reason (edit: likely to do with base archive being freedoom2.wad, which doesn't work in chocolate-doom, among other reasons that I'm not going to bother with)... but it works fine with gzdoom 4.1.3.

raymoonhawk_tweaked_BON1-0_MEDIA0_STIMA0.7z

 

EDIT: Yes, that should be "raymoohawk" -- my apologies.

Edited by bpeterson

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, bpeterson said:

Let's keep our sights on getting the core project *done* first.

Oh, that was actually a quick joke, sorry if I sounded like asking too much.

 

22 hours ago, bpeterson said:

In my head, the Freedoom healing bonuses are medical nanomachines suspended in a fluid which both assists in bloodstream injection via hypospray (ITEMS NOT DRAWN TO SCALE), provides base proteins for said machines to use to rebuild injured tissues, and reduces inflammation. The machines stick around in the bloodstream and activate based on injury-stress hormone release, explaining the over-100%-health ability.

 

I am not a doctor, take this headcanon with a grain of salt. :P

I actually like this very much it shall become my headcanon too.

 

And I just noticed I came here without giving proper feedback about your work. It all looks great! All your sprites have been awesome, please keep the good work :)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, The Maverick013 said:

Oh, that was actually a quick joke, sorry if I sounded like asking too much.

 

I actually like this very much it shall become my headcanon too.

 

And I just noticed I came here without giving proper feedback about your work. It all looks great! All your sprites have been awesome, please keep the good work :)

 

Aw thanks, but I really can't take much credit. Apparently, these were raymoohawk's design? (I haven't checked, the credits list is dog-awful at any specificity and the git history would require a bit of digging to figure out who committed what on behalf of whom.) I only replaced a few pixels.

Edited by bpeterson

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You know, when I was younger I really liked drawing, then I came to the realization that I can't draw at all. But instead of making me feel sad, I started to respect people with this type of talent a whole lot more. Then one day I woke up and said to me "this is the day I'll become a Doom mapper". I gave up after like five minutes. I suck at art. But that just made me see that sometimes, even those tiny pixels or details that we take for granted require a lot of effort. So I think all the artist working on a project deserve credit. Of course, I'm also really grateful for raymoohwaks works, just like yours.

 

On a side note, not sure if this is useful but I tested that .7z file and it seems it doesn't work on Crispy Doom, but works fine in Zandronum.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, The Maverick013 said:

You know, when I was younger I really liked drawing, then I came to the realization that I can't draw at all. But instead of making me feel sad, I started to respect people with this type of talent a whole lot more. Then one day I woke up and said to me "this is the day I'll become a Doom mapper". I gave up after like five minutes. I suck at art. But that just made me see that sometimes, even those tiny pixels or details that we take for granted require a lot of effort. So I think all the artist working on a project deserve credit. Of course, I'm also really grateful for raymoohawk's work, just like yours.

 

On a side note, not sure if this is useful but I tested that .7z file and it seems it doesn't work on Crispy Doom, but works fine in Zandronum.

 

Yeah, it doesn't work in Chocolate Doom either (unsurprisingly). I don't know enough about making PWADs to figure out why it doesn't work. :( Thanks for testing it, though! :D

 

Edit: As a little note regarding the BON2?0, I don't plan on making any alterations to the sprites at this time, despite my misgivings about having the A on it. I do, however, strongly suggest swapping what is currently BON2B0 and BON2A0 -- right now, the glowing bit jumps back and forth.

Edited by bpeterson

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i'll say my personal opinion i dont like the actuall hp bonus sprites... they look like hp kits of 5 hp from complex doom, i mean there not exactly but looks more for a hp kit than a little bonus, i still like of the first bonus hp presented there, just my opinion.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Xindage said:

i'll say my personal opinion i dont like the actuall hp bonus sprites... they look like hp kits of 5 hp from complex doom, i mean there not exactly but looks more for a hp kit than a little bonus, i still like of the first bonus hp presented there, just my opinion.

 

I'm not familiar with Complex Doom, they don't have the healing item sprites in their screenshots, and I'm not downloading 50+ MiB just to check. :P

 

Am I right in saying you dislike the raymoohawk BON1*0 design, and the derivatives, but like the older versions from 0.11.whatever? Personally, I agree with that. I only did these because it was relatively simple to do.

 

Heck, it's a toss-up which I prefer on the others, too. The new MEDIA0 has too much going on, it's more like an AED than a combat-zone resilient medical kit... but I'm judging compared to modern materials and medical science. For all we know, that case is actually some kind of solid aluminium shell protecting something more along the lines of the Doom 4 nanomachine programming & dispensing medikits, with a waterproof top compartment holding antisepitics and bandages.

 

The STIMA0 sprite... well, actually, I like the new version. I take back the tossup on that one, even if the older design was more consistent with the iD assets. :P

 

EDIT: ...okay, apparently it's not even raymoohawk's BON1*0 or MEDIA0 designs, just a mirrored (in the former case) and massively-revamped version of the designs from v0.2, if not v0.1. Wow...  :D The cool hypospray STIMA0 seems original, though.

Edited by bpeterson

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these here was good too, very simple and you get what they are just by looking, blue = hp, green = armor, i liked these bonuses too
image.png.ff113d3b0115694c01d9614273b4ee71.png

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Yeah, I saw those in... was it the attic, or an older version's wad? I don't remember exactly. I think the issue was that they were too similar to a HacX pickup, or something... that, or being too small/simple and undifferentiated from each other. I don't remember what I read clearly enough to say.

 

Hopefully they'll get reused somewhere else, eventually.

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On 7/19/2019 at 2:52 AM, bpeterson said:

Well, apparently I'm a liar, because here's more BON1*0 stuff that isn't simply relocating a symbol on the HD version. Oh, and for consistency, MEDIA0 and STIMA0.

 

demo.png.946c23ef077e9b7cb13f29187760da60.png

I think the pink-brown pixels on the left (I have trouble identifying what that part of the bottle is supposed to be except it seems to be a LED indicator of some sort) kinda clash with the green pixels because they were initially supposed to go hand in hand with red lights, not green.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, MrFlibble said:

I think the pink-brown pixels on the left (I have trouble identifying what that part of the bottle is supposed to be except it seems to be a LED indicator of some sort) kinda clash with the green pixels because they were initially supposed to go hand in hand with red lights, not green.

 

*shrug* I'm not a fan of that part of the design either. Check the original v0.5-or-earlier version, it can be much worse. :P

 

It stand out just enough to indicate some kind of nanobot control/status indicator... thing... that sticks out a bit,  and the color compliments the top bit more than it was supposed to have anything to do with bottle decal, I think. I'm not really interested in tweaking the sprite further at this time, but I'm eager to see others' takes on it. :)

Edited by bpeterson

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