Vertigo - First WAD created

[mangame5]

Hello! Fairly sure this is my first time posting.
Made this account a while ago, popped into Doombuilder from time to time, but never sat down to for a full project. Think it's about time I make an entrance.

This is my first complete map. Before it, I only made rooms and tried some things here and there, to understand some of Doom's intricacies.
Don't expect magic, the map is fairly ugly, but before I get the feel for making something that looks good, I'll stick to fun gameplay, or at least try to. 

 

Vertigo
Format: Doom in Hexen
IWAD: Doom 2
Custom stuff: MP3 background song - Diablo 2 - Jungle (Should be fine for videos or streams)
Ports tested in: GZDoom g.3.5.1
Software used:
- Map: Doom Builder 2.1.2.1553
- Inclusion of MP3: Slade 3.1.1.5

Jumping and Crouching: Preferably enabled
Mouselook: Preferably enabled (Especially due to the vertical nature of the map)

Screenshots:
 

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WAD itself:
Vertigo.zip

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by mangame5

[ketmar]

didn't played it yet, but please: can you upload zip archives instead of rars? zip is de-facto standard, and many sourceports can run wads from within zips without unpacking. sorry for not commenting about the map itself.

 

p.s.: eh. started it, and immediately found a bug. you have two identical lines (1656 and 168). this confuses some node builders, and this is generally a map bug.

Edited July 10, 2019 by ketmar

[mangame5]

15 hours ago, ketmar said:

didn't played it yet, but please: can you upload zip archives instead of rars? zip is de-facto standard, and many sourceports can run wads from within zips without unpacking. sorry for not commenting about the map itself.

 

p.s.: eh. started it, and immediately found a bug. you have two identical lines (1656 and 168). this confuses some node builders, and this is generally a map bug.

Fixed zip thing.
Not sure I follow about the bug. Could you explain further? Map seems to function well on at least three separate computers.

[ketmar]

13 minutes ago, mangame5 said:

Not sure I follow about the bug. Could you explain further? Map seems to function well on at least three separate computers.

you have two different linedefs (1656 and 168) starting and ending with the same vertices, thus making them fully overlapped. overlapped lines, line intersection, and fully overlapped lines are no-no in doom maps. some sourceports and bsp builders tries to workaround such bugs, others do something unexpected. it won't make map unplayable, but may lead to visual glitches with different sourceports.

 

here's how it looks with k8vavoom+ajbsp, for example:

Spoiler

 

[mangame5]

15 hours ago, ketmar said:

you have two different linedefs (1656 and 168) starting and ending with the same vertices, thus making them fully overlapped. overlapped lines (and fully overlapped lines) are no-no in doom maps. some sourceports and bsp builders tries to workaround such bugs, others do something unexpected. it won't make map unplayable, but may lead to visual glitches with different sourceports.

 

here's how it looks with k8vavoom+ajbsp, for example:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

As your reply arrived, I found it. I understand the issue now, not sure how or when this happened. Deleted the perpetrator, will recomp and reup soon.

[EDIT]
Fixed and reupped.

 

[ketmar]

also, i played the map a little, and it is... interesting. i'm not used to maps that basically require freelook (sure, this one can be done without it, but will be much harder), so it was something... refreshing. not finished it, though -- not because it is boring, but because i don't feel like playing right now at all. i am not a mapper, so cannot comment on that. as an average doom player i can say that it was fun, and i will definitely play it to the end later.

[ketmar]

oh, so i made it almost to the exit in the first run (i gave up on a final fight, i didn't knew that it is the final one ;-). i usually hate platforming, but there it was fun. yet freelooking made the level slightly too easy: for example, i simply sniped babyspiders, and i sniped almost everybody at the final crowd from the bottom of the pit.

 

as for the final fight, maybe put blockmonster linedef slightly before exit, so player won't be able to safely snipe them all? or, if you want to be REALLY sadistic, close the exit, so the player won't be able to escape from the fight?

[DynamiteKaitorn]

This map really feels weird... For one, it's very easy to die if you don't comb every inch of the map before progression. I entered the pinky demon trap room and almost got mauled to death just due to how many there were and I didn't have the chaingun, chainsaw OR super shotty at the time to defend myself. Another moment of jerkish difficulty is if you can SOMEHOW make it across the arachnotron room (easier said than done) the final room is fileld with imps, pinky's and 2 barons. Again, harsh much?

 

As for a map themed round vertical movement, I kind of expected use of "Air Control" (not to be confused with air supply) inside of a MAPINFO file.

 

Overall this map seems wonky in it's design. It's not awful, just wonky.

 

6.5/10

[mangame5]

23 hours ago, ketmar said:

oh, so i made it almost to the exit in the first run (i gave up on a final fight, i didn't knew that it is the final one ;-). i usually hate platforming, but there it was fun. yet freelooking made the level slightly too easy: for example, i simply sniped babyspiders, and i sniped almost everybody at the final crowd from the bottom of the pit.

 

as for the final fight, maybe put blockmonster linedef slightly before exit, so player won't be able to safely snipe them all? or, if you want to be REALLY sadistic, close the exit, so the player won't be able to escape from the fight?

The spiders were made to be sniped. The map rewards patience over daring. It's extremely unlikely to make it over the steps and platforms with them still alive. And even so, if you dilly dally too much on them, the imps below will step onto the teleporter and start applying pressure from the back, at least from sound alone. The pit itself is punishment for failing the platforming, not a place required to visit.
The final fight is a bit weak as more often than not, the barons don't apply too much pressure, which might panic someone back into the pit. Maybe some linedef alignment and repositioning of the enemies could help it. Ideally, the player would feel compelled to walk in and keep firing, taking care of the weaker enemies to make room for dodging the barons' attacks.

 

 

15 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

This map really feels weird... For one, it's very easy to die if you don't comb every inch of the map before progression. I entered the pinky demon trap room and almost got mauled to death just due to how many there were and I didn't have the chaingun, chainsaw OR super shotty at the time to defend myself. Another moment of jerkish difficulty is if you can SOMEHOW make it across the arachnotron room (easier said than done) the final room is fileld with imps, pinky's and 2 barons. Again, harsh much?

 

As for a map themed round vertical movement, I kind of expected use of "Air Control" (not to be confused with air supply) inside of a MAPINFO file.

 

Overall this map seems wonky in it's design. It's not awful, just wonky.

 

6.5/10

The chaingun's up on the pedestal in the first section, where the second set of imps and first cacodemon pop out of. I assumed it was pretty obvious and visible, but maybe I should have added something to it.
Both pits are optional. The first has the super shotty to aid with the knights, but it's not required for the pinkies, as the chaingun I assumed would be acquired should suffice. The pinky corridor itself was made to punish any and all forms of rushing, be it early on to engage the first set, or later after they have been dispatched. Lack of chaingun at this point would indeed render it difficult. Potential lack of ammo has been compensated for with supplies near the lost soul windows.
The second pitfall is more of a punishment for any sort of rushing or mishandling of the platforming. The arachnotrons themselves are there to discourage carelessness from the getgo, having to be sniped, which also gives time for the imps below to step onto the teleporters and warp closeby, which can result in pressure, at least from the player hearing them.
The final fight encourages mobility, unless the enemies bump too much and can be sniped by just backing off. Keeping the trigger pulled and walking in worked best for me when I playtested, requiring careful circling to take care of the barons. Any player who starts pushing the buttons before the barons were killed would be surprised by imps in the dark blocking the way to the switch, though I doubt many would be tempted to skip the last bit of the final battle.

At least these things were my intentions. I apologize for not making the chaingun more obvious, probably would've made the map a lot more fun for you. Last room should also have been built better, to encourage determined play, failure of which would result in retreat and fall.
 

[DynamiteKaitorn]

My biggest issue with the last room was, the enemies quickly closed in on me so I couldn't safely run past without taking a huge chunk of damage.

[ketmar]

11 hours ago, mangame5 said:

which might panic someone back into the pit

that's what happened with me: i just ran away, and fell into the pit. and then i found a safe place there, and found that i can simply snipe everyone from below. it is quite boring, but absolutely safe.

 

i mean, it is too easy for the player to escape the fight by accident, not by tactical planning. contrary to the rest of the map, where you have to advance slowly, here blind panic run actually gives you an advantage. maybe that was exactly what you wanted, but i think that it somewhat contradicts the "spirit" of the map. but of course, this is a very subjective thing, i'm not saying that it is totally wrong or something.

 

or... you can remove safe spots after the player enters the final room. this way panic run will force the player to teleport out of the pit, and deal with monsters from the platforms. it will be even better that blockmonsters linedef, i believe, and punish the player for not planning enough.

[Suitepee]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/457022637

 

I play this at 46:00 into this playtest livestream. Interesting to see a first time map focus on verticality!

[mangame5]

On 7/23/2019 at 10:08 AM, Suitepee said:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/457022637

 

I play this at 46:00 into this playtest livestream. Interesting to see a first time map focus on verticality!

Thank you for checking it out! Will start on my second map soon. Cheers!

[Sir Hattington]

Judging by your profile picture I can tell that you like TF2, I see you are a man of culture of well. Also, did you steal the Vertigo name from the CS:GO map?

[mangame5]

5 hours ago, Sir Hattington said:

Judging by your profile picture I can tell that you like TF2, I see you are a man of culture of well. Also, did you steal the Vertigo name from the CS:GO map?

 

Nope. Comes from roomspin which can be triggered by fear of heights, though I did play that map in CS 1.6