Doom: Annihilation update

[Man of Doom]

I feel like this is worth repeating.

 

19 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

For you see, Doomguy is no longer just some normal badass just trying to survive invasion after invasion while fighting off eldritch horrors from the beyond. Thanks to the likes of Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal, he's now a literal demigod who nut-punches Cthulhu every other Tuesday and bangs the girlfriends of every single demonic overlord on weekends.

 

As a result, all Doom-related media going forward has had some... lofty expectations to meet. Anything having to do with Doom 3 or any hint of slowness/suspense gets immediately thrown into the garbage, no exceptions.

 

A story where some unkillable hardass extraordinaire punches (Dr. Evil voice) *one million demons* and foils the plans of a demon-worshipping cult disguised as a megacorporation? "HELL YEAH"

A story where a squadron of marines struggles against a base infested with the demonic hordes? "BURN THE HERETICS"

 

And now you know why so many people want a Doom movie to consist of literally nothing but heavy metal blasting nonstop while hundreds of demons get turned into thick red paste and a musclebound dude in green armor flexes every five seconds (all from a first-person view, of course).

 

[whatup876]

Doomguy's power level being increased could lead to some potentially interesting action sequences but never forget the horror in Doom (specially before D3) and that Doomguy still had trouble during the games, since a hero always needs challenges to overcome.

Some of this power fantasy aspects kind of originate from memes and fanmade jokes and i don't want it to be an excuse for why Hell feels weaker, both in terms of "lore" or even gameplay.

 

Another idea i thought could work was if some narrator would represent the intermission text screens so they describe events and talk directly to Doomguy and possibly being the same voice as the one in 2016's intro.

 

But regardless, to me a perfect Doom movie could be a blatant mix of any Doom version, so we keep the "stronger" Doomguy but also keep reminding people that he still gets hit back. (also why i'm glad Eternal brings back the pain grunts and hopefully a bloody face mugshot too)

Maybe have a scene where some people are admiring his strengh like a legend then cut it to him, in a different room, really hurt and healing himself by drinking from a health bonus.

[Man of Doom]

Sarge speaks up yet again:

 

 

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

On 9/26/2019 at 12:20 AM, XLightningStormL said:

Funny seeing that it's made from the guy who dislikes Doom 2016, because it's "not like teh originale dewms!1!" 

Thanks for comparing apples to oranges. For the record, I don't dislike Doom 2016, it's a good modern game, I just think it's not as good as the original Doom.

It's going to be a long text and apologize for that, but here is what people needs to understand: They had a low budget. They didn`t had Bethesda`s support. They did all they could with what was given to them. Yeah, the movie looks B-rated because it IS B-rated. And is not a bad B-rated movie. It takes place in Phobos, it has marines, it has demons, it has a portal to hell, it has action, it has a (underwhelming) BFG-9000 that this time actually kills something, it thankfully doesn't drags itself for more than 90 minutes. What else you need?

"people saying the ideal movie should be a pure action slaughterfest like John Wick, or literally just Hardcore Henry in Hell"
I heard this a lot of times. First you need to understand how movies are made: First of all you need financing because movies are very expensive to make. How do you get it? You propose an idea to investors, a concept of a movie people would pay to watch. People goes to the movies to watch people interacting to situations around them. If you disagree with it, then movies are not for you, just play the game instead, it's much funnier.
If you replace Keanu Reeves by a dude with a Doomslayer cosplay, and the mobsters by CGI demons, and the electronic music that plays following the choreography like a beautiful dance of death by out-of-place deafening industrial metal, how many people you think are going to pay to watch it? 100,000 in an optimistic scenario? Dude, that probably pays for the opening credits and Doomslayer`s costume.

"Oh but Hardcore Henry was a success."
No, it wasn't. It was produced under a budget of 2 million, and grossed 16 million. Yeah, that sounds good, but it was also recorded in Russia, where everything is cheap, the scenarios are somebody's backyard, abandoned buildings, and it already costed goddamn 2 million US dollars. Just to make the exact same movie in the US it would have costed ten times more, making it a box office flop. Now imagine making it in a sci-fi setting, with monsters instead of faceless goons. It would cost 200 million instead of 20 million, and a 16 million box office is definitely not good enough.

"people wanting it to fail because of Amy Mason's tweet about Doomguy"
Okay, peep talk. If you feel personally insulted because of a joke about a fictional videogame character that doesn't even has an actual name, you seriously need to re-evaluate your entire life (and possibly your masculinity) right now. Doomguy is not real, ok? He doesn't has feelings. He doesn't need you to protect his "honor".
It's funny that I have seen a lot of people on facebook groups wanting the movie to fail because of a tweet, while being the exact same people that got mad a few weeks ago over ResetEra trying to cancel Ion Fury over the Ogay joke. That's a lot of hypocrisy, you either condemn ALL forms of cancel culture, or you are a part of it. You want people to lose their jobs over a joke about a fiction character, there is no excuse, this is despicable.

I don't see the lack of a Doomguy a problem at all. It must be made very clear that this is a movie about Classic Doom, not Doom 2016 or Doom Eternal. There is no Doomslayer yet, just Doomguy, and Doomguy can't even be considered an actual character, but rather an avatar, he is supposed to be THE PLAYER, whatever if you are a white guy, black guy, asian woman, whatever. So there is absolutely no problem on it being Doomgal. Just think of it, we already had Karl Urban as Doomguy in Doom 2005. He was pretty decent, anybody would be an inferior choice, but after Dredd he became way too expensive to hire. So why not try something entirely different and make a Doomgal instead? And for the record Amy did a decent job too. The marketing team should be blamed for the trailer, the actual action scenes looks quite better.

It`s perfectly fine to not enjoy the movie. B-rated movies are not for everyone. But hoping the movie will fail and they will go bankrupt, calling the movie "insulting", it's all quite infantile. The director, the actors, they all tried the best they could. I am thankful for them for having interest in making another Doom movie after 14 years. I am thankful for this not being made by Uwe Bowl purposely making a movie that sucks so he can get refunds from the government. I am thankful that Paul W. S. Anderson didn't make it and decided to cast his wife as Doomgal and give her superpowers and make the entire plot revolve about Martians or whatever. Go ask Resident Evil and Far Cry fans how they feel about their franchises and ask if they wouldn't want to switch places with us. I'd say Doom movies are on the same level of OG Mortal Kombat, Silent Hill, and Warcraft. It's not much, but it's better than 99% of videogame movies. I would argue that not even Doom 2005 is that bad (if you look at it as a prequel to Doom, how Doomguy got into a mission where he refused to kill civilians, killed his superior and then got sent to Phobos as a punishment, the lack of demons makes perfect sense). I mean, what other videogame fans can say their videogame got represented by The Rock, Karl Urban, and the guy that played the Night King on GoT?

You all need to accept that your "John Wick but with Doomslayer on a 200 million budget" will never, ever happen, so if you want the PERFECT Doom movie, then do yourself a favor and just watch James Cameron`s Aliens instead. Doom is essentially an Aliens rip-off, remember that id Software was originally approached by Fox to make an Aliens game and they decided to make their own game, borrowing a fuckton of ideas from Aliens (which you can see everywhere in OG Doom, from textures, weapon design, Doomguy's armor design, and so on). So any attempt at making a Doom movie will be inevitably an Aliens clone. There is no escape. So why not just watch the original thing instead? It's never a bad time to re-watch Aliens anyway.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Sergeant_Mark_IV

[Stealth Frag]

Low budget bla bla... Saw it yesterday and it's total crap. No atmosphere, no tense, tons of zombies (wearing a tie, hell no...), tons of shiny new plastic everywhere, only two kind of demons, extremely stupid ending. Say what you want but it's a total crap. They even hire actor looked exactly like Doomguy's avatar and they didn't even use it.

[jeroa]

people have been influenced by a culture of compepetitive consumption into duels of subjective preference. in reality there is no good or bad art

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

29 minutes ago, Reinchard said:

Low budget bla bla... Saw it yesterday and it's total crap. No atmosphere, no tense, tons of zombies (wearing a tie, hell no...), tons of shiny new plastic everywhere, only two kind of demons, extremely stupid ending. Say what you want but it's a total crap. They even hire actor looked exactly like Doomguy's avatar and they didn't even use it.

So you think low budget isn't an excuse, yet all the problems you point are caused by the low budget.
 

[Spectre01]

15 minutes ago, jeroa said:

in reality there is no good or bad art

There definitely is unless you subscribe to some idea of abstract philosophical wankery. There are bad movies just like there are bad Doom maps. Just because some nutcase thinks wow.wad is the pinnacle of Doom mapping does not make it so.

[jeroa]

goodness and badness are the philosophical wankery

[NightFright]

Blu-ray release date is now Oct 28 according to Amazon UK. I guess by that time, almost everybody will have watched it. I'm going to wait for it, anyway.

[Stealth Frag]

2 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

So you think low budget isn't an excuse, yet all the problems you point are caused by the low budget.
 

Look at 1979 Alien, and no, no in term of budget. Look at the Nostromo interior - old engine parts are used for realistic sci-fi decoration as well as printer parts and other metal crap. So, no, it's not only matter of budged., it's more matter of some kind of general idea of what you want to do. The only idea I see here so far is let's make some most generic sci-fi shit in history.

[ReaperAA]

Speaking about budget, can anyone tell how much was provided for this movie and the 2005 movie?

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Alien had almost 11 milliions. That's pretty huge for a horror film from that time. And it definitely wasn't a B movie. Are you guys kidding listing ground breaking movies as if they were average/shit movies? 

[Stealth Frag]

28 minutes ago, Pegg said:

Alien had almost 11 milliions. That's pretty huge for a horror film from that time. And it definitely wasn't a B movie. Are you guys kidding listing ground breaking movies as if they were average/shit movies? 

I clearly emphasized that I'm talking about smart reusing of some old engine and printer parts for Nostromo decoration. They used old cheap (or free) crap and have achieved very impressive and realistic effect.

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

14 minutes ago, Reinchard said:

I clearly emphasized that I'm talking about smart reusing of some old engine and printer parts for Nostromo decoration. They used old cheap (or free) crap and have achieved very impressive and realistic effect.

 

You forgot the part where Alien's set designer was literally HR Giger. 

[Spectre01]

Watched the movie. Here's an "in-depth" review:

Spoiler

It's mediocre, generic, but otherwise inoffensive. If you've seen any other "team of soldiers argue with each other, get separated, and die one by one" you know exactly what to expect. The budget is obviously minimal and from the credits it seems like 90% of the movie was made in Bulgaria. Kind of disappointing half the action was against generic fast zombies and the only demon engaged in actual combat was the Imp. I was expecting at least a Hell Knight or some other classic big guy. The acting is cheesy and plenty of sick references are thrown around.

tl;dr - It's ok.

[Linguica]

6 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

"Oh but Hardcore Henry was a success."
No, it wasn't. It was produced under a budget of 2 million, and grossed 16 million.

 

Hate to make an 700% profit on my movie. Just can't stand it when that happens.

[Gez]

55 minutes ago, Spectre01 said:

I was expecting at least a Hell Knight or some other classic big guy.

I remember the director tweeting that he wanted to finish with the Bruiser Brothers but couldn't make them fit in the special effects budget.

[Dexiaz]

6 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

how many people you think are going to pay to watch it?

 

Looks like John Wick got A LOT of people who wanted to see the average story about badass hitman with cool dancing fatalities (3 times, and people will watch the 4 movie, yes). So I suspect that the same people would watch the Doom the way John Wick did.

[FreakZoneGames]

Who do people keep mentioning Hardcore Henry? Hardcore Henry with Doom Slayer? Just play the friggin' game if you want that. Or watch somebody else playing if all the button pressing was bothering you so much.

[Dexiaz]

13 minutes ago, FreakZoneGames said:

Who do people keep mentioning Hardcore Henry? Hardcore Henry with Doom Slayer? Just play the friggin' game if you want that. Or watch somebody else playing if all the button pressing was bothering you so much.

 

I was mentioning this movie few pages ago. So what? Thanks for your advice, of course, but I don't care about your opinion what I should watch or play or do at all. I'll decide such things by myself.

 

And yes, I do like the new Doom movie. Don't forget about this fact when you will call me "stupid hater" or something like that.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Đeⓧiaz

[Robo_Cola]

8 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

 

"people saying the ideal movie should be a pure action slaughterfest like John Wick, or literally just Hardcore Henry in Hell"
I heard this a lot of times. First you need to understand how movies are made: First of all you need financing because movies are very expensive to make. How do you get it? You propose an idea to investors, a concept of a movie people would pay to watch. People goes to the movies to watch people interacting to situations around them. If you disagree with it, then movies are not for you, just play the game instead, it's much funnier.
If you replace Keanu Reeves by a dude with a Doomslayer cosplay, and the mobsters by CGI demons, and the electronic music that plays following the choreography like a beautiful dance of death by out-of-place deafening industrial metal, how many people you think are going to pay to watch it? 100,000 in an optimistic scenario? Dude, that probably pays for the opening credits and Doomslayer`s costume."

 

If we go by the responses to Doom 2016's "Fight like hell" cinematic trailer, quite a lot of people would watch that (given the budget.)  Perhaps an animated movie/short film series in that vain is preferable to live action all things considered?  Either way it would probably fare better since (mostly) no one asked for the two Doom movies we got.

 

"people wanting it to fail because of Amy Mason's tweet about Doomguy"
Okay, peep talk. If you feel personally insulted because of a joke about a fictional videogame character that doesn't even has an actual name, you seriously need to re-evaluate your entire life (and possibly your masculinity) right now. Doomguy is not real, ok? He doesn't has feelings. He doesn't need you to protect his "honor".
It's funny that I have seen a lot of people on facebook groups wanting the movie to fail because of a tweet, while being the exact same people that got mad a few weeks ago over ResetEra trying to cancel Ion Fury over the Ogay joke. That's a lot of hypocrisy, you either condemn ALL forms of cancel culture, or you are a part of it. You want people to lose their jobs over a joke about a fiction character, there is no excuse, this is despicable."

 

While being insulted over a fictional character is obviously silly, the backlash she got is pretty warranted.  If you're somebody with only a few roles to your name like Amy and you're making fun of the central character of a famous franchise that's now giving you a movie role, you should at the very least expect some backlash and not be in total shock over it.

"I don't see the lack of a Doomguy a problem at all. It must be made very clear that this is a movie about Classic Doom, not Doom 2016 or Doom Eternal. There is no Doomslayer yet, just Doomguy, and Doomguy can't even be considered an actual character, but rather an avatar, he is supposed to be THE PLAYER, whatever if you are a white guy, black guy, asian woman, whatever. So there is absolutely no problem on it being Doomgal. Just think of it, we already had Karl Urban as Doomguy in Doom 2005. He was pretty decent, anybody would be an inferior choice, but after Dredd he became way too expensive to hire. So why not try something entirely different and make a Doomgal instead? And for the record Amy did a decent job too. The marketing team should be blamed for the trailer, the actual action scenes looks quite better."

 

True if you take into account that the "Doomguy" is supposed to be whoever the player is... according to John Romero and not ID software as a whole.  Nonetheless, wouldn't most Doom fans want to see the DoomSlayer/Doomguy instead?  The Doomguy himself has always had a backstory and the new games now put a heavy emphasis on lore that could be extrapolated on in film.  There really could be a market for that given the success of the new games, much more so than the two Doom film plots we have now.

 

 

[siteod]

Turns out, because I never imagined it possible to have, "wanting" Doomgirl was not something that ever crossed my mind before. However, as a woman, seeing a female protagonist in my favorite game franchise meant a lot to me.

[A Nobody]

I knew the new movie would fail.

[Robo_Cola]

26 minutes ago, siteod said:

Turns out, because I never imagined it possible to have, "wanting" Doomgirl was not something that ever crossed my mind before. However, as a woman, seeing a female protagonist in my favorite game franchise meant a lot to me.

If you're replying to my post the key word there was *most* Doom fans would want to see the DoomSlayer/Doomguy.  It's good you found some entertainment out of it though, it's not the absolute worst movie ever.

[A Nobody]

I don't mind a female Doom Marine at all. I find it a great idea, but the movie itself is not Doom.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

4 hours ago, Linguica said:

 

Hate to make an 700% profit on my movie. Just can't stand it when that happens.

Read again the part where I said the exact same movie would have costed 20 million if it was recorded in the US, making it a flop. You need to have some better reading interpretation.
 

4 hours ago, Đeⓧiaz said:

 

Looks like John Wick got A LOT of people who wanted to see the average story about badass hitman with cool dancing fatalities (3 times, and people will watch the 4 movie, yes). So I suspect that the same people would watch the Doom the way John Wick did.

What's wrong with all this people today wanting to post a reply without even finishing to read sentences?
Dude in a Doomguy cosplay fighting monsters is not the same as John Wick, it won`t attract the same public.

[Linguica]

You’re right, if events happened differently than they did in reality, the movie would not have been massively profitable. 

[A Nobody]

I have never watched John Wick.

[Gaia74]

11 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

It's going to be a long text and apologize for that, but here is what people needs to understand: They had a low budget. They didn`t had Bethesda`s support. They did all they could with what was given to them. Yeah, the movie looks B-rated because it IS B-rated. And is not a bad B-rated movie. It takes place in Phobos, it has marines, it has demons, it has a portal to hell, it has action, it has a (underwhelming) BFG-9000 that this time actually kills something, it thankfully doesn't drags itself for more than 90 minutes. What else you need?.....................

I agree with many points

 

I don't know what the people expected from a movie with a low budget, some would say it's an excuse, but it really affect the work

 

It is not the same to make a low-budget movie that occupies only a few places, the actors, and of course the cameras that make a whole science fiction scenario with demons that must be made with CGI