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[McD]James

Doom: Annihilation update

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13 minutes ago, Man of Doom said:

I feel like this movie is going to be the DTV equivalent of Godzilla: KOTM. 

 

Second entry that builds off a good-but-flawed, horror-themed first entry in a series, only to drop the ball and become braindead "DUDE FANSERVICE LMAO"?

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9 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 

Second entry that builds off a good-but-flawed, horror-themed first entry in a series, only to drop the ball and become braindead "DUDE FANSERVICE LMAO"?

 

Ehhh, sort of. First movie was where there was quite a lot of contention over the movie’s story but everyone more or less came to accept it as what it was over time. 

 

Second movie is more doing what they can to stick to the source material, only for it to become extremely polarizing even among fans. Some are calling it better than the first one while others are calling it the Worst Thing Ever(tm). 

 

Honestly, if Annihilation was given a bigger budget, I feel like more people would give it a chance instead of just writing it off as “irredeemable dreck”. 

 

And I honestly still fail to see why a glorified playthrough of Doom 2016 would be considered “a good Doom movie”. I mean, like 85% of people complaining about Annihilation only want to see “FYOOTUR HARDCORE HEMRY”. 

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Definitely going to see it soon. But I'm a bit embarrassed by how many people don't understand what small budget productions are. I would see people in Facebook Doom group threads talking about how "Hollywood" is fucking it up again, which is what you'd say about a theatrical release.

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You know what? I didn't mind it. I'm not going to sit here and tell you it was a great movie, but it was a B Sci-Fi movie loosely based on something I love. It was obviously very low budget and a bit campy at times, so if you aren't into those types of movies this might not be for you. I love B movies and, all things told, I think they probably did as best as they could with what they had. Honestly, I think it would have been worse if they had tried to do a proper Doom Guy slaughterfest movie on the budget they had. Doom Girl's character was nowhere near as cringey as the trailers had led me to believe and I like that they incorporated Doom Guy's original backstory. All in all, I think that was a reasonably enjoyable hour and a half and I feel like I'm going to be ordering a physical copy when it is released. 

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22 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

Uhhhhhhh, I think the movie may have gotten leaked. Don’t ask me how, as I genuinely don’t know.

Based on what I've seen so far by these screencaps, it looks exactly like the B-movie I expected it to be.
I still fail to see how people are still complaining over Universal not giving Doom the Hollywood blockbuster treatment because at least this looks like an honest effort to be faithful to the games.

 

 

So the first movie was by Universal Pictures which is a major film studio and this new Doom movie is from Universal's "Universal 1440 Entertainment" subsidiary, which definitely sounds B-Movie-ish to me. I'm sure this movie was just made so that Universal can keep the rights to the Doom name/franchise, sort of like how Dimension Films keeps on making Hellraiser movies just so they can keep the rights to the Hellraiser film series. I mean, i could be wrong though.

 

Anyways, i'll still watch it when it comes to Netflix (if it does) before i decide on if i want to buy it.

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Been meaning to post in here for a while but kept forgetting to, but anyhow:

I've been looking forward to seeing this movie for a while now, and I still don't get why so many folks have been up in arms about it. I've always believed the original Doom backstory was a B-movie type thing at best, plus as my current avatar might indicate, I'm a big fan of Mystery Science Theater 3000, so I'm no stranger to watching & enjoying cheesy movies. This movie looks like the kind of schlock I live for, and to have it based on one of my all time favorite games is just a big bonus. Can't wait to see it when I get my copy next week!

Edited by Triple_sSs

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I honestly believe a Doom movie could work better if animated.

It could actually capture the designs in the games and fit the overall whacky "video gamey" nature better than live action.

I can see an issue with first person segments, but that's when you could go with 3D animation similar to some of the Resident Evil movies, even if i imagined the concept animated similarly to the Castlevania show.

 

You could also come up with details like close ups to Doomguy's face done in a similar manner to MCU Iron Man/Tony Stark's face inside the helmet with the "HUD" next to his face.

And have over the top action happen with blood pumping, hard hitting music or horror sequences or even UAC scientists talking and explain a bit of stuff in between some segments.

And Doomguy showing his brutality (against demons) and action but still showing his humanity.

A great balance between humor and drama.

Exploration on characters like Olivia or Hayden.

Maybe some new types of weapons or demons, since the 2005 movie inspired the BFG10K on Skulltag, so imagine the mod potential there.

 

And if we're going for protagonists that are not the Doomguy, we could go for actual Kira Morgan or Crash for female characters.

Stuff like that D2RPG scientist working with that lady from Ressurection of Evil when studying this stuff or even Night Sentinels for the sake of "lore exploration".

And they don't have to rely on one single iteration, they could mix it up like "Oh there's demons from Doom 3 and some classic Doom/D64 props and also here's Hayden" for example.

 

Regardless whether or not a Doom movie can be good by movie standards, i wouldn't mind a movie still being a bit bad if it still feels like it's inside the games themselves, so it follows DOOM STANDARDS instead.

 

Because no matter how close these adaptions can be, it'll still be somewhat surface level, like just a little bit of stuff then that's it.

 

Considering how Doom has a fanbase that made a lot of great content and it's a great series as a whole, with great history, i want something that screams passion and care.

 

I like to believe there's ways on how to make Doom work in a movie or even a small series but it seems like nobody explores what could be great ideas because Doom is not associated with having a much deeper story while video games movies don't turn out well that much, even though you could argue some bigger movies out there aren't that great and replaced Michael Bay movies as "market filler/pop corn stuff".

 

In fact, from what i've seen of the existing footage out there of Annihilation, they might as well made a more basic version of Hell than 2016 because at least 2016 had some neat locations and props but so far, Annihilation Hell is just grey rocks. (like nothing that could inspire levels in a game)

 

Not everything can be Into The Spiderverse (Which while not performing that well money-wise, is still extremely high critically i barely saw anything negative) but at least give me something that makes me thing "wow this person really likes Doom".

 

TLDR: Animation and getting actual fans could do more justice, along with making the movie looking like the games and follow Doom standards over movie standards.

 

The way how UAC marines look like SWAT soldiers that don't go to Mars is as faithfull as Captain N's portrayals of characters like Megaman and Simon Belmont.

Seriously, if that show kept long enough to get more franchises besides NES stuff, Doomguy would have been a SWAT officer with a giant tv for a head with his face in it because someone misunderstood the HUD face thing and the demons would still be aliens.

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I was having some more interest in seeing this and just about to say they just shouldn't have screwed up so much with marketing and PR.   But they lied about it having the Doomguy.   I'll still probably see it sooner than the 2005 film which I took over a decade to get around too, but meh bleh shrug fart gurgle pop sizzle.

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Ok, so I kind of got to see the movie early and...

 

...hoo boy, I have some thoughts.

 

I feel like it's best to organize them into the neutral, the good, and the bad. I'll do my best to not get into spoilers, but I can't 100% guarantee that.

 

Spoiler

Neutral:

-I can definitely tell that the script was definitely written before the existence of Doom 2016. I mean sure, there are a few references here and there but the skeleton of the script definitely existed well before that. I do remember seeing somewhere that the director wanted to get this project off the ground for years.

-In terms of writing, it does somewhat feel like an actual fan of the games wrote it.

-While there are a few cheesy lines here and there, none of them were exceptionally cringeworthy.

-The ending didn't exactly feel as much of sequel-bait as I thought it would be. It felt much closer in line with the ending to Event Horizon than anything.

-The little easter eggs (such as John Carmack, Daisy, and BJ Blazkowicz) were definitely a cute touch.

-The trailers made this movie look and sound a whole lot worse than it actually is. Needless to say, there's no "DIE DIE DIE" anywhere in the actual movie.

-The soundtrack was serviceable, but it could have been a lot better. I know a movie like this doesn't exactly deserve the caliber of Mick Gordon, but maybe someone could actually try to craft something unique instead of a generic sci-fi horror movie soundtrack. For some reason, I feel like the score from Wolf: TNC or even Wolf: Youngblood would definitely feel more fitting.

-The costuming for the marines themselves could have definitely used improvement, but I don't think they're outright terrible. I mean, the standard uniforms without the armor actually look pretty good, it's just the armor and helmet that could've used more overhauls. For one, the body armor they wear could have definitely used some heavy hard-shell armor plating (or at least be colored a reasonable shade of green to look recognizable). Second, the helmets needed to be full-face so that they actually looked like space marines (I mean, they couldn't even bother with respirators?). What if those special ops space marines needed to go outside or something?

 

Good:

-The writing is vastly improved and feels much more in tone with OG Doom (being somewhat serious with tinges of comedy). One of my main issues with the 2005 movie is that it took itself way too seriously and tried to ground itself with science that would make an actual geneticist cry.

-Speaking of the movie's science, it does feel somewhat reasonable and surprisingly grounded in reality while adding more fantastical elements like... you know, the demons. It's not as grounded as Event Horizon, but it's there.

-There is definitely more world-building and concepts within this Doom continuity that actually works fairly well. Original ideas like AI and "time limit" on the base add some extra tension while the existing Doom-related ideas like the keycards and teleportation are fairly solid.

-The characters actually did feel compelling and reasonably fleshed out within a solid time frame. I actually rooted for them and felt genuinely bad when they inevitably got worldstar'd by a demon.

-For a shoestring budget, the set design is absolutely stellar. The Phobos Compound does actually look like something you might see in a Doom title, and it manages to look like a believable space station.

-The movie itself does show some signs of self-awareness, in that it doesn't take itself too seriously. Conversely, it also manages to capture the hopelessness and despair that occurs in the event of a demonic invasion (as well as the fact that, without getting into spoilers, shit hits the fan in the worst ways imaginable). Both of these things capture the spirit of OG Doom very well.

-The special effects actually weren't that bad. In fact, the practical effects were very well-done and the CGI is not too shabby (if a little spotty in some places, especially when it came to the fireballs).

-Because of all the above factors, I actually felt like I was watching a movie based on Doom. Another major issue with the 2005 movie: the changes to its story were so numerous and so arbitrary to the point where even when it did follow the source material, it seemed weirdly out of place.

-I actually enjoy how Joan Dark was written as a character (given that she's more or less the official Doomgirl). Most of the chuds who are going to inevitably complain about her will fail to realize that she's honestly written no differently than Doomguy nor does she act any differently from him (a hardened badass with a more compassionate side and a backstory where morals outweighed orders). Plus with a name that's literally taken from Jeanne d'Arc, it's hard not to see why she's pretty much Doomgirl (and we've had Doomguys where their names consisted of John "Reaper" Grimm and Flynn "Fly" Taggart).

-The exposition scenes weren't as blatant as I thought they would be; they took place during perfectly reasonable scenes.

-The buildup to the first wave of zombies was actually pretty well done (there was a palpable sense of dread and suspense going on during that buildup).


Bad:

-Just as a foreword, most of the "bad" stuff could be a result of the movie's shoestring budget.

-The gore was depressingly underwhelming. The worst I usually saw were like bullet wounds and gashes, and maybe a string of bloody corpses and dismemberment every now and then. As a result, you have zombies falling over dead from a few nondescript bullets to the chest and humans instantly dying because they got grazed by a fireball or maybe got scratched like once or twice.

-With maybe the exception of the BFG and SSG, the weapons used was next to unrecognizable (and even the aforementioned BFG and SSG got nerfed). I get that a squad of space marines usually have standard-issue assault rifles, SMGs, and pistols which look reasonably futuristic, but that's about it. We couldn't get any big-ass shotguns, rocket launchers, or plasma rifles? Hell, the chainsaw didn't look all that futuristic, the SSG was basically some dinky little sawed-off shotgun instead of some goliath-looking futuristic shotgun, and the BFG basically just takes out one enemy at a time (and they just get knocked back instead of exploding into a shower of gore).

-There could have seriously been some variety with the monsters, even the zombies. Considering how we now have soulless zombies instead of genetic mutants, I think we also could have actually gotten proper zombies with guns. As for the demons, I feel like we could've gotten more than just Imps and Hell Knights with fireballs. I know that a shoestring budget probably won't allow for anything like a Cyberdemon, a Mancubus, or even a Cacodemon, we could have at least gotten maybe a couple of Pinkies or Revenants in there just for good measure.

-There's just way too many f-bombs being dropped to the point where the marines started to sound less hardcore/badass and more like teenagers who think swearing is cool.

-While there's a good buildup to the demons, I can't help but feel this ended up creating some pacing problems.

 

Final verdict: This actually isn't half-bad for a Doom movie. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's most definitely a B-movie at its core but it's still definitely pretty enjoyable and a nice way to spend about an hour and a half.

In fact, I kind of feel like this is the movie we should have gotten back in 2005 (same script but bigger budget). I think if we had those things, we definitely could have had people talking about this potential Doom movie as "one of the better video game movies".

 

That said, this movie was kind of released during a very unfortunate time. Yes, I know we're in a Doom renaissance and everything, but just hear me out. With that new Doom renaissance came certain... expectations as of late.

For you see, Doomguy is no longer just some normal badass just trying to survive invasion after invasion while fighting off eldritch horrors from the beyond. Thanks to the likes of Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal, he's now a literal demigod who nut-punches Cthulhu every other Tuesday and bangs the girlfriends of every single demonic overlord on weekends.

 

As a result, all Doom-related media going forward has had some... lofty expectations to meet. Anything having to do with Doom 3 or any hint of slowness/suspense gets immediately thrown into the garbage, no exceptions.

 

A story where some unkillable hardass extraordinaire punches (Dr. Evil voice) *one million demons* and foils the plans of a demon-worshipping cult disguised as a megacorporation? "HELL YEAH"

A story where a squadron of marines struggles against a base infested with the demonic hordes? "BURN THE HERETICS"

 

And now you know why so many people want a Doom movie to consist of literally nothing but heavy metal blasting nonstop while hundreds of demons get turned into thick red paste and a musclebound dude in green armor flexes every five seconds (all from a first-person view, of course).

 

It's a goddamn shame because this movie is actually pretty decent overall, and much more of a Doom movie than the one from 2005.

Edited by Man of Doom

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For all the chuds, and people denouncing this film, your "lord and saviour" Sgt_Mark_IV shared his opinions on the movie, and he's made decent points comparing it to the 2005 movie, without spewing garbage.
 


Funny seeing that it's made from the guy who dislikes Doom 2016, because it's "not like teh originale dewms!1!" which is basically a parallel to all the chuds, and clowns meming about the lack of a Doomguy, and how Doomguy is apparently "Required" for it to be Doom.

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So it's really no better or worse than the 2005 film, and likely made by people who don't know about or don't care about the original Doom at all("our imp is the classic one, it just looks totally different but it's the same!"), we got endless whining from certain political sides over the female lead, and it's likely to be forgettable in the long run- or will probably be forgotten about in 3 months.

 

I mean, I wouldn't count on classic Doom anything being the focus since Doom 4 is the new canon- the best we're getting is that overpriced classic cacodemon bank and that's all we're getting- and Doom's been done to what some people claim Disney did to Star Wars, so it's surprising this film is not just Doom 4 but it's still mediocre and forgettable and I don't get why they bothered.

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Just saw the movie.

 

+100500 to SgtMark's post.

 

I have only 1 question:

Spoiler

WHY THE HELL BFG9000 WORKS SO...UNUSUAL?!

UPD:

Spoiler

For me this movie is kinda good mix of Resident Evil 1 (the movie), Event Horizon, Pandorum and...Doom 2005.

 

I mean, they took few scenes/ideas from those movies and recreated here. It was...funny sometimes. I thought that I'll see the laser-web, lol.

 

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Yeah, I don't think it would be considered a spoiler to confirm that Joan Dark is Doomgirl in this movie. So if you don't like the idea of female Doomguy, then you won't like the movie. For the people I've seen worried not about gender as much as the fact that it's a 'little girl' (their words, not mine), well, she's a total badass in the film. Kicks a whole lot of ass. The butt-kicking is way above and beyond the 2005 film, regardless of budget. I really like what they did with her.

 

10 hours ago, diosoth said:

likely made by people who don't know about or don't care about the original Doom at all

The director has said several times that Doom is his all-time favourite game.

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15 hours ago, XLightningStormL said:

For all the chuds, and people denouncing this film, your "lord and saviour" Sgt_Mark_IV

Hi. Guy who thinks the film looks like crap here. I also don't like Brutal Doom. I'll sit back down now.

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if we want a good doom movie, we would need a director like tim burton and something akin to tim burton's batman.

you know, cinematic, epic music like the psx doom theme, and character development. a doom movie as an action movie would not work well. who would want to watch gameplay from doom in the form of a movie? it could be an action THRILLER/Gothic adventure like batman, and maybe follow the storyline of the original manuals from doom and doom 2.

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4 hours ago, FreakZoneGames said:

Yeah, I don't think it would be considered a spoiler to confirm that Joan Dark is Doomgirl in this movie. So if you don't like the idea of female Doomguy, then you won't like the movie. For the people I've seen worried not about gender as much as the fact that it's a 'little girl' (their words, not mine)

 

lets be honest this is just a different framing of misogyny

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I mean the director's not wrong... Pirating does take money away from project funds and pirating is kind of a scummy thing to do especially if you do not own or plan to purchase the media in which you're pirating.

 

But if we're going to use that excuse for why the film sucked.... Then that means the much larger budget theatrical release of the 2005 movie should have been a masterpiece ( by his logic) . 

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14 hours ago, Mk7_Centipede said:

Joanna Dark is the doom girl?

Just Joan, not Joanna.

 

And NO it's not a nod to Perfect Dark. It's a reference to Joan of Arc. Perfect Dark was also a reference to Joan of Arc. That two different people came up with nearly the same pun doesn't mean they reference each others.

 

8 minutes ago, Buckshot said:

I mean the director's not wrong... Pirating does take money away from project funds and pirating is kind of a scummy thing to do especially if you do not own or plan to purchase the media in which you're pirating.

 

But if we're going to use that excuse for why the film sucked.... Then that means the much larger budget theatrical release of the 2005 movie should have been a masterpiece ( by his logic) . 

Nope, just that the 2005 movie had the potential to be much better than it ended up being.

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You people know what would have made this movie way better?
If this movie was a side story, and by that i mean that the movie is exactly the same, except that the presence of Doomguy is felt, the marines go through places where Doomguy has already been, we see/hear little glimpses of him here and there because he is always one step ahead or something like that, and the marines are there doing their mission while Doomguy is just doing its own thing/carnage around the base.
A little detail that would have made the story way better.

Anyway the movie is crap, it surprised me at moments but overall is not a good movie and i dont think that the low budget is an excuse (the dialogues, jeez, the dialogues), maybe i will elaborate later but i have been kinda busy.

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32 minutes ago, Gez said:

 

 

Nope, just that the 2005 movie had the potential to be much better than it ended up being.

 

So that only furthers my suspicion that the director is using piracy as a excuse as to why the film was bad.

 

Clearly he was not getting a budget because the potential to do a much better movie existed with the much larger financed & theatrical wide release of Doom 2005. But since his predecessors did so poorly in handling of that film & budget and was so widely panned by critics and audiences... Universal studios didn't want to put any real effort or money into the making of this one. In fact I'm not even sure why they did other than to just attempt to leach money off the new game series launch (or perhaps just to keep the movie IP in their ownership or from expiring).

 

And let's be honest... even the budget is debatable in order to pull off a good Scifi horror movie by today's standards.

 

But I at least give him that benefit of doubt there.

Edited by Buckshot

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Thinking more of it, "Can a Doom movie work" is in the same spot as "Can Doomguy in Smash work".

People either think it can't or can but won't do much effort to prove it works.

For the former you have how the movies range to barely faithfull to just a little bit so they keep the SWAT soldiers designs and for the latter i mean how people expect Doomguy to be entirely based off his recent games without interesting ideas for representation similar to other characters. (like combining designs or random touches that make his presence more fitting)

 

I wonder if the directors or any of the movies ever browsed Doomworld. (probably not)

In case they make another one just to still keep the rights, at least make it a good excuse next time.

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I'm going to ignore the leak and patiently wait for my Blu-Ray copy. Then and only then will I offer any sort of opinion or rating. Like SgtMarkIV, I will compare to the 2005 movie and other sci-fi action movies.

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53 minutes ago, Buckshot said:

So that only furthers my suspicion that the director is using piracy as a excuse as to why the film was bad.

Yeah, but it's in response to a twit saying "lol I pirated ur movie and it sucks so u suck lol" so he's allowed to bite back I think.

 

Tony Giglio is not the kind of moviemaker who gets invited to Cannes, I think we're all aware of that. Yes, the movie was most certainly funded just to keep the rights. With expectations tempered, I think the movie ends up being correct, an action/horror B-movie with some genuine love for the source material and honestly one couldn't realistically ask for more.

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So, I watched to movie, here's some thoughts:

 

The good:

-There are more game references than the 2005 movie, which I'm glad

-Building up the tension to the demons was done correctly

-The dude who played Bertruger did a great job, he didn't feel sinister at the start, but later on he did a fine job

-The CGI in hell looked surprisingly decent considering its a B-List movie

 

The bad:

-No Doomguy. It's not a Doom movie without Doomguy. With correct writing and cast, Karl Urban would've killed it, but we can't have nice things

-Cast generally felt bland with the exception of Bertruger, no one stood out that much (I hoped for James Brown, the captain dude, would stick around because he really looks like Doomguy). None of their deaths were impactful in any way to the characters.

-All of the weapons look like ass or plastic

-Only demons that appear are the possessed scientists and imps. No revenants, no pinkies nothing.Scientists look bland but the imps look decent

-The squad dies WAY too fast

-God awful cliffhanger ending

-Winslow is a twat

 

4/10, saw it coming though so I wasn't dissapointed. Would be a 3/10 but they made this cute reference:

Screenshot_20190925-202834.png.4e5cb07285e384809fc5ec55f5e2932a.png

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