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Doom: Annihilation update

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2 hours ago, kristus said:

Doomguy is not an iconic character, he's hardly even a character. He's an avatar. Doomguy's armor is iconic. But there can be anyone behind that visor.

Amen

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8 hours ago, RightField said:

It's 2019, not the 90s (and thank god for that) girls want in on the fun too, as they should, get with the times. You can easily change the gender of main characters while still staying true to the source material. Marvel does it all the time effortlessly. All in all it's about the writing and production. This looks like a fun grindhouse movie.

 

Also there's more to life than being "right". Try being wrong once in a while, it's refreshing.

Really? What Marvel does is cheap publicity stunts because a lack of actual substance and creativity that the works have to hold on their own.
I could elaborate but i dont wanna derail the thread, besides is a political trend in media that we are seeing lately a little too often.
Also, try to do it the other way around and see the reaction it gets.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, GoatLord said:

I don't understand people saying a movie with practical effects, sets, props, costumes, decent CG, solid lighting and competent looking camera work "looks like shit."

Because it does, it looks cheap and cringe worthy for the most part (DIE DIE DIE! lol what is that dialogue) we might be surprised and at best get a decent entertainment that can be enjoyed because of Doom bias, maybe is even decent as a braindead cheap poorly written entertainment, maybe it even gets to be a decent entertainment, period, but i dont think it would be a stretch to say that is not gonna be a masterpiece in any way or even reach the calification of "good movie".

Sorry for the double posting, i was readin two different pages in two different tabs and i did not knew how to put them together.

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1 hour ago, D88M3R said:

Also, try to do it the other way around and see the reaction it gets.

 

Because they aren't equivalent actions.  Changing a straight, white cis male hero to not be straight, white, cis or male will not materially reduce the number of straight, white cis male heroes in media.  Heck, changing a hundred of them won't materially reduce the number of straight, white cis male heroes in media, because straight, white cis male heroes are everywhere.  Making a female into a male, a trans character cis, and so on, will materially the number of such heroes in media, because they are already vanishingly rare.

 

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I have no problem with a female Doomslayer. If given my dream choice for the role, it would be Ronda Rousey -- beautiful and yet she looks like the total badass she is. And does she have the "eye of the tiger" or what? Yes, I watched Amanda Nunes punch her into dreamland -- a truly great KO by any standard -- but just think of the fan base Ronda has with the WWE, which is why putting Ronda in the role would almost certainly nuke the budget.

 

I reckon I'll watch the movie when it comes out. Might watch the first, too. Never seen it, so why not?

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5 hours ago, Steve D said:

I have no problem with a female Doomslayer. If given my dream choice for the role, it would be Ronda Rousey -- beautiful and yet she looks like the total badass she is. And does she have the "eye of the tiger" or what? Yes, I watched Amanda Nunes punch her into dreamland -- a truly great KO by any standard -- but just think of the fan base Ronda has with the WWE, which is why putting Ronda in the role would almost certainly nuke the budget.

 

I reckon I'll watch the movie when it comes out. Might watch the first, too. Never seen it, so why not?

 

Yeah, I was thinking someone along those lines. She could work as a Doom protagonist (or one of them). Problem is, they probably couldn't afford her.

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8 hours ago, D88M3R said:

Really? What Marvel does is cheap publicity stunts because a lack of actual substance and creativity that the works have to hold on their own.
I could elaborate but i dont wanna derail the thread, besides is a political trend in media that we are seeing lately a little too often.
Also, try to do it the other way around and see the reaction it gets.

 

I don't think they would be the most popular movies in the history of humanity if they lacked creativity or substance.

 

But yeah it's okay to have a minority opinion, just don't get irritated when people don't cater to your needs. Learn to love or stay a hater I guess.

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2 hours ago, RightField said:

Learn to love or stay a hater I guess.

I don't even care for capeshit movies but I guess that no one can have their own opinions then?

 

Quote

just don't get irritated when people don't cater to your needs

The irony

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17 hours ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

The dramatic, emotional way he emotes "URNF!" when he tries to dry hump a wall, hoping it'll open up for him? Or the fact that he does what every action hero does (pick up guns and kick ass) ?

ehh Yes? if you play the game for so long you get attached to his character. Especially when there's so many different (mostly humorous) depictions of him from fans. I'd just like to see a guy in a green suit throwing stupid one liners

 

16 hours ago, FreakZoneGames said:

 

Weird how he looked totally different in Doom 3 then huh? 😜

 

(Also Karl Urban looks way more like that HUD face than Dwayne Johnson. Jussayin’)

doom 3 was a reboot, it's all about the original doom

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1 hour ago, ([zen3001]) said:

ehh Yes? if you play the game for so long you get attached to his character. Especially when there's so many different (mostly humorous) depictions of him from fans. I'd just like to see a guy in a green suit throwing stupid one liners

 

doom 3 was a reboot, it's all about the original doom

 

Except Doomguy never even went so far as to throw one liners in any iteration outside of the comic. 

 

And just about every iteration of Doom has been a reboot on some level at this point, except for the classic Doom engine games. So far, the continuaties/ styles cover: 

 

Doom 1, 2, Final Doom and 64. 

Doom Comic? Does this one even count? 

Doom Novels (classic)

Doom 3

Doom 3 Novels (Technically same universe as Doom 3, but different)

Doom Movie #1

Doom RPG 1 and 2 

Doom 2016/ Eternal

 

All of the above have radically changed who Doomguy is, and some even put in a Doom Girl (female marines in command positions and generally key roles). In general, almost no Doom after the classics really tried to adhere to to the original Doom Guy too much (argument can be made for Doom RPG though), because again, there's not a lot to work with beyond "space marine". 

 

Which is all to say; if all the other Doom's out there get a free pass for not clinging to the original, why are we slamming Annihilation on this count in particular? 

 

On the subject of green suit and the general complaints of "Swat in space", I keep thinking of the PSX cover, in which he neither has power armor, nor even a green suit (though maybe there are versions in which he's green). Either way, he looks like he's come directly from a tour in 'Nam. 
image.png.a293fcb5a52d5390ecd4f6398261a721.png

 

Yet I've never seen anyone complain about that... 

 

Likewise, the Doom 64 marine suit is drastically different, with his "armor" being grey/ black, except for the clothing proper. 

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The more I look at the stuff we've seen / read so far the more convinced I am that the "Doom 1 backstory" theory is right and the movie is about the space marine squad getting owned on Phobos while Doomguy sits in the car and reads comic books. This sidesteps the problem of what to do about Doomguy, and lets you write an Aliens / Predator style ensemble cast who explore an environment and get picked off one by one.

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4 hours ago, gaspe said:

I don't even care for capeshit movies but I guess that no one can have their own opinions then?

 

The irony

 

I meant the opposite, learn to love that others have a different opinion. I just don't get the point of the anger behind it nor how anything gets ruined by something based off it. The original still exists?

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3 hours ago, Linguica said:

The more I look at the stuff we've seen / read so far the more convinced I am that the "Doom 1 backstory" theory is right and the movie is about the space marine squad getting owned on Phobos while Doomguy sits in the car and reads comic books. This sidesteps the problem of what to do about Doomguy, and lets you write an Aliens / Predator style ensemble cast who explore an environment and get picked off one by one.

 

That's what I think too and I hope that is the case. I have a feeling the movie will end with either a backshot of Our Hero entering the Hangar or they will find the sarcophagus of the Doomslayer so he will be the monster of the movie. If the first theory is true, then maybe the characters of the movie are the dead marines in E1.

 

Still, I'm more optimistic about it after the new trailer. I'm not expecting miracles but it might not be completely awful after all, who knows. The shot with the imp horde was the best part.

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4 hours ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

Doom 1, 2, Final Doom and 64. 

Doom Comic? Does this one even count? 

Doom Novels (classic)

Doom 3

Doom 3 Novels (Technically same universe as Doom 3, but different)

Doom Movie #1

Doom RPG 1 and 2 

Doom 2016/ Eternal

 

It's weird, seeing the list like this makes me realize how much of an odd man out the "Doom Movie #1" is. I was going to make a comment about how the only real, true constant throughout the franchise has been the demons themselves (almost making the demons the star of the show), but then I thought hey, wait minute... the Doom movie didn't have demons. If I recall correctly, weren't they just genetically altered mutants? Whatever people don't like about the look of this new Doom: Annihilation film so far, at least they're making it about demons... xD

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Posted (edited)

I like Doomguy* being a personality-free cipher cos people can craft doom expansions of any flavour and they all more-or-less suit him anyway, whether it's METAL AND MEAT or horror or frontier adventure or abstract arenas or whatever weird thing someone dreams up, in the present, future or past or in alternate versions of the same... but the advantage in a game setting vanishes when you put him in a movie and only an uncompelling character remains.

 

*doomperson? doomentity?

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4 hours ago, RonnieJamesDiner said:

 

It's weird, seeing the list like this makes me realize how much of an odd man out the "Doom Movie #1" is. I was going to make a comment about how the only real, true constant throughout the franchise has been the demons themselves (almost making the demons the star of the show), but then I thought hey, wait minute... the Doom movie didn't have demons. If I recall correctly, weren't they just genetically altered mutants? Whatever people don't like about the look of this new Doom: Annihilation film so far, at least they're making it about demons... xD

Yeah, it goes with the Martian civilisation thing from Doom 3 but instead of discovering hell they discovered this chromosome which can either turn people super strong or into monsters depending on if they're "good or bad"... It's worded better than that in the movie but it's still pretty dumb (not that 'shoot demons from hell with Gatling guns' isn't). So I guess it's like angels vs demons, but not? But characters constantly refer to hell, one character is religious, etc., so it's in there but always metaphorically so. It was pretty much their way of having it all happen in a 2005 Hollywood movie for a wide audience without them thinking it was all too silly and farfetched.

 

I often think if it had come out just a little later, it'd have been great... The 2000s were a period where big budget movies had to take themselves weirdly seriously and couldn't be seen as silly, but the 2010s embraced goofy fun a lot more. Nowadays people will go and see THOR IN SPACE PLUS TALKING RACCOON and love it... And I'm so happy about that, honestly. Still, an R-rated gore film usually isn't going to secure a big budget, I'm happy to take this one as straight to video.

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13 hours ago, RonnieJamesDiner said:

 

It's weird, seeing the list like this makes me realize how much of an odd man out the "Doom Movie #1" is. I was going to make a comment about how the only real, true constant throughout the franchise has been the demons themselves (almost making the demons the star of the show), but then I thought hey, wait minute... the Doom movie didn't have demons. If I recall correctly, weren't they just genetically altered mutants? Whatever people don't like about the look of this new Doom: Annihilation film so far, at least they're making it about demons... xD

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the classic Doom novels also replace the demons with genetically engineered monsters, made by an invading alien race?

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13 minutes ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the classic Doom novels also replace the demons with genetically engineered monsters, made by an invading alien race?

 

Hmm... honestly, I only ever read Knee-Deep in the Dead, and it was so long ago that I don't really remember anything about it :\

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2 hours ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the classic Doom novels also replace the demons with genetically engineered monsters, made by an invading alien race?

Those books (they were not good btw, at all) made it so that the aliens made everything appear hellish because they knew that’s what humans were afraid of, based on studying human history. Kinda cool idea but the books themselves are mostly all like “I pushed a skull switch and a platform raised up and I collected the soul sphere”, it’s totally crap, haha

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Just now, FreakZoneGames said:

Those books (they were not good btw, at all) made it so that the aliens made everything appear hellish because they knew that’s what humans were afraid of, based on studying human history. Kinda cool idea but the books themselves are mostly all like “I pushed a skull switch and a platform raised up and I collected the soul sphere”, it’s totally crap, haha

I’ve never read them but your description of it has made me not want to anymore. Sounds like transcript of commentary for someone’s playthrough 

Are they really THAT bad? 

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8 minutes ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

Yeah, you win. That does read absolutely ridiculous. 😂

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Don't forget the shitfest that was the infamous Doom Comic. ;)

So in terms of Doom Annhilation being unironically bad (and not being ironic and cheesy) is pretty low, Doom media has a pretty low bar to get over.

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Those aliens were the Freds and Newbies. I used to hate those books but nowadays I like them. They´re just another Doom universe to me.

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On 8/18/2019 at 10:24 PM, Capellan said:

 

Because they aren't equivalent actions.  Changing a straight, white cis male hero to not be straight, white, cis or male will not materially reduce the number of straight, white cis male heroes in media.  Heck, changing a hundred of them won't materially reduce the number of straight, white cis male heroes in media, because straight, white cis male heroes are everywhere.  Making a female into a male, a trans character cis, and so on, will materially the number of such heroes in media, because they are already vanishingly rare.

 

Changing the race/gender/sexuality of a character for no reason is the same thing whatever way you do it, make Blade an albino guy or Wonder Woman a hairy man for example and see what happens, besides there is not really a point behind it, is just marketing stunts, is "inclusiveness" for inclusiveness sake and if it looks dumb and pointless from someone outside of the USA like me i can only imagine how ridiculous it must be from the inside, they have good characters that are black or women or whatever, use them, dont change what it works for being one way so the brand gets noticed.

And i am not even "white", i am from South America, and in hollywood movies latinos are always portrayed as servants or drug dealers, dont see anybody making a fuzz out of that, and i have even read, to put an example, black people complaining about making the disney mermaid black, because they know that is just a marketing stunt and has nothing to do with movie producers being self righteous, they are movies coming from hollywood after all.

Why no create a new, original not white straight male (wtf is cis anyway) to target a certain demographic instead of changing an already existing character? Because nobody would pay attention, that is why, they need the "controversy" and debates about it to get the new changed character to be relevant.

And all of this is coming from a totally open minded person mind you, i know people from all social statuses, races, genders and sexualities, my country is like that, everybody is welcomed. 

And something else that i wasnt gonna say, i dont know if this is gonna sound offensive or whatever but is not my intention, but i also dont wanna live in a world where i should fear my thoughts and words because otherwise i get marked as a black sheep that do not follows "the truth" or whatever: The reason why most characters are heterosexual white males in media is because they are written by them, and they are also the demographic, the demographic of most movies from hollywood is united states citizens who are white and straight and male, because those are the people that usually go see those movies.

I dont care about any of that by the way, i am a lover of cinema as an art and i watch literally any kind of movie, what race/gender/sexuality is the main protagonist is not even in my list of things that make me appreciate more or less a movie, unless is part of some kind of socio political propaganda of couse, but i still dont care as long as the movie itself is good, i just dont want change for change sake.

I hope i made myself clear and dont get banned or anything weird like that, it would be ridiculous honestly.
 

On 8/19/2019 at 4:44 AM, RightField said:

 

I don't think they would be the most popular movies in the history of humanity if they lacked creativity or substance.

 

But yeah it's okay to have a minority opinion, just don't get irritated when people don't cater to your needs. Learn to love or stay a hater I guess.

The Lion King remake is one of the most popular movies right now, it has made one of the biggest box offices ever, and is a terrible movie. Same thing for Endgame and many others, Endgame was even praised by "professional critics" as a good movie when is not, and is the perfect example of a movie without substance designed by a studio board meeting, and even less creativity.
And i am a Marvel fan by the way, but there is no front where to defend the crap disney has done at this point, which is sad because Infinity War was pretty good, but the mcu is a whole can of worms for maybe another day

Casual audiences see movies an entertainment and nothing else, they dont know abotu the craft of filmmaking, as pretentious as that makes me sound, but i guess the success of the mcu is because most people who pay for those movies have never read an actual Marvel comic book, so they dont know how bad disney screwed up, they did the same thing with The Last Jedi but because everybody was way more familiar with Star Wars they saw right throught the charade.

Hollywood is very good at making technically flawess movies that are totally hollow and souless, generic formulaic and forgettable cookie cutter products.

That last sentence you wrote could be easily applied to the people who complain about most movies being about "white straight males" or whatever, ironically, is the opinion of a minority and they get really irritated and vocal when they dont cater to their needs.

I also find extremely simplist to call anybody who does not agree with a certain opinion a "hater", which i actually get on other sites from mcu fanboys/shills when i criticize ANYTHING from the mcu, even when i love Marvel and i have been reading Marvel comic books from 24 years now. Is just not true.
And i dont have why learn to love literally everything that gets trown at me, i need to have at least a minimum of a filter in quality standards, specially when it comes from hollywood that is a place that is constantly trying to brainwash everybody.

I dont knwo why we are even talking about this lol, the movie is gonna suck anyway, is just a matter of how much, and the gender of the protagonist would be the lesser of its problems from what we have seen so far.

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It's not the lack of anything substantive in the above post that makes my eyes want to roll out of their sockets, but rather the sheer bloatedness of it all along with the run-on sentences. Brevity is the soul of wit. 

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Posted (edited)

Ok so I made a vid like 5 months ago where I was baffled by all the stupid reactions and I could put that exact same video out now and it would still be just as topical rofl. People are being way WAY too harsh on a videogame B movie which makes 0 sense as a good videogame movie has literally never been made (king of kong aside). But then because people are shitting on it way too hard, others are defending it way too hard to the point of excuse making, lmfao it’s the perfect metaphor for how pretty much all public discourse goes down these days. I love it.

 

Anyways, even tho I’m expecting crap that’s ok because I LIKE crap. Rowdy Roddy Piper was in some of the best films of all times ffs but people keep telling me they’re shit!!

 

The whole “the squad Doomguy was travelling with goes in and gets fucked up” angle would be awesome, if that’s what they’re doing it will be a super cool layer that I’ll appreciate. I gotta dispute Ling’s claim that Doomguy was just eating a sandwich while all the shit went down though!

 

Doomguy was made to stay outside because the only reason he was even there is that he assaulted a superior officer. It’s common to be given the shitty/lame jobs when you’re under penalty in a military-like organisation. IIRC they thought the mission was gonna be kinda easy so they made the guy in the proverbial dunce cap (doomguy) sit outside and do the boring job of keeping an eye on the entrance.

 

I also gotta contest the claim that Doomguy is not iconic. I’ll meet you at “doesn’t have much character, is meant to be a blank slate for players to easily fill”, because that’s simply a statement of fact. But, his appearance is pretty damn iconic, at least to me - I mean it had to be right? Halo straight up jacked the character design, obviously SOME people thought it was pretty damn cool or iconic or whatever we wanna call it.

 

He gets angry enough to brutally assault a superior officer when told to fire on civilians. Most people wouldn’t have the nuts to even speak out of line when they’re a small military pawn, much less straight up beat the shit out of a CO. So there’s some character development.

 

He gets ultra pissed that his pet rabbit was murdered - not exactly Shakespeare but “having a pet and being heartbroken that it died” literally requires character and emotion, even if only the most basic sense of it.

 

He also isn’t a fan of destruction, at least when he’s still a normal human during Doom2. He literally says to himself that rebuilding Earth is going to be a lot more enjoyable than destroying it was. Now, of course, this was before he was entombed in hell between D64 and D4, but the point still stands.

 

I know it’s only crumbs, but the skeletal structure for a potentially interesting story is there already, as well as some super iconic imagery (cacodemons, doomguy’s armor, unnatural amounts of blue carpet indoors, etc etc).

 

Where the heck is the damn movie about Average Joe Military man with a heart of gold who beats up his CO, saves Earth, gets all

emotionally fucked up about losing his only loved one (his pet) then literally decides to live in hell to keep Earth saved, but gets trapped in a tomb by the demons, leaving the door wide open to a sequel that will never come!?

 

I mean fuck, take that premise, add in a couple good actors and some snappy dialogue but also some emotional bits to “humanize” Doomguy all while remembering that it’s a cheesy action flick that doesn’t take itself too seriously. Add plenty of ultra violent slapstick (exploded corpses running down stairs and stuff) and you got yourself enough material for an “actual” Doom movie. FFS I typed this summary up in 10 minutes, why is there not a single author or director who wants to tell the “real” damn DOOM story?! 

 

Thats the thing the books, the original movie, and (based off the previews) the new movie all totally miss.. The tone! Read that story text, read those ENDOOM screens, send an imp through a window with a rocket then go pick up a big floating blue head and tell me about how this is a game that takes itself super seriously 😂 

 

I mean FFS, the new game pushed the series even further into the ultraviolent slapstick realm!! How is a movie with a bunch of humorless grumps running around in SWAT gear reflective of that?! The 2005 film did that stupid shit and this one is following suit. W H Y

 

With all that said, the people who

think this is bad “because women” are dumb. Any small person holding what looks like a 60 pound gun is going to look dumb, stop saying it looks dumb because “a woman is holding it”, that’s just stupid beyond belief, lol. Women are sometimes in the military, sorry to burst yer hyper masculine bubbles. It’s not the fact that there are females in the lead role that is the problem!

Edited by Doomkid

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Posted (edited)

All I want from a Doom movie is:

1.Doomguy killing tons and tons of Demons with a Chainsaw.

2.A lot of blood and gore.

3.Kickass Thrash Metal playing in the background.

4.And barely any dialogue.

 

I know they are trying to include a variety of characters into the story, but we don't want

a bunch of random soldiers that don't even look like they belong in anything Doom related.

We want the roided up Space Marine we all know and love.

 

Though I was willing to accept the possibility of the movie being halfway descent.

 

But I'm still not too happy on how the lead Actress pretty much

disrespected the Doom community by stating in a Tweet:

"Who needs a Doomguy"

That honestly made me loose all respect and hope for the people working on Annihilation.

The fact they let her do that is rather terrible marketing.

 

Edited by aSeriesOfNumbers

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