How NRFTL or Sigil would be treated without....

[Poncho1]

Fuckin' hell, can we just talk about NRFTL instead!?

[esselfortium]

On 7/30/2019 at 2:37 AM, eulo said:

 

Sigil has

- eye switches

- pictured doors for ending

- catwalks

- important secrets that are quintessential to your progression

- glowing cracks on floor and ceiling

- crusher maze

- Minotaur maze

- teleports that throw you back to previously visited areas with more enemies

- large cages

- sinister town with infested buildings

and other minor things like that interesting lost soul start in M8, or the secret area in M1

 

And all of this in a 9 map episode. Good luck picking your favourite wad has this many of memorable and/or innovative stuff. You probably have to go back to Plutonia to see such innovative design.

check it out yall. we got:
- monsters
- levels
- there are guns
- you can exit the maps if you're good enough
not gonna find that kind of innovation in just any wad

 

I love Sigil but come on.

[Tarnsman]

I don't think it's possible to argue that the mapsets wouldn't be treated differently if they weren't "official" so to speak if only because there would be an objective change in the level of exposure to said mapsets.

 

John Romero releasing a mapset is going to draw some more eyes than some random guy releasing a mapset. People are always going to form opinions about stuff based on that and there always are going to be more opinions and expectations when it comes to something that gets broader recognition in that way. However I don't think beyond that aspect people's opinions on the sets would really be that drastically different.

 

Obviously anyone who was "disappointed" by Sigil likely would not be disappointed if it wasn't a hyped release but I doubt the aspects that they disliked that resulted in the disappointment would suddenly be things they enjoyed and the other way around.

 

No one is suddenly praising aspects of map making they hate just because John Romero's name is attached to it or it's something packaged with an official Doom release.

 

People do sometimes exaggerate the level of how different from community output these mapsets are (as evidenced by the post praising 'catwalks' as unique) but it's not like someone is talking about how The Chasm or The Pit are the worst levels in Doom 2 and then turning around and talking about the brilliance of Sigil.

 

If you look at the things someone does or does not praise about these mapsets and then look at the general style of doom level design they typically appreciate or disparage, you'll find a lot of consistency.

[OliveTree]

On 7/25/2019 at 11:52 PM, eulo said:

RotS

 

On 7/25/2019 at 11:52 PM, eulo said:

RotS

 

On 7/25/2019 at 11:52 PM, eulo said:

RotS

 

RotS?

 

What's RotS?

[eulo]

18 hours ago, esselfortium said:

check it out yall. we got:
- monsters
- levels
- there are guns
- you can exit the maps if you're good enough
not gonna find that kind of innovation in just any wad

 

I love Sigil but come on.

 

Yay, you got your wanted likes, let's move on...

 

(and don't even try to understand what I was talking about)

[eulo]

7 hours ago, Tarnsman said:

I don't think it's possible to argue that the mapsets wouldn't be treated differently if they weren't "official" so to speak if only because there would be an objective change in the level of exposure to said mapsets.

 

John Romero releasing a mapset is going to draw some more eyes than some random guy releasing a mapset. People are always going to form opinions about stuff based on that and there always are going to be more opinions and expectations when it comes to something that gets broader recognition in that way. However I don't think beyond that aspect people's opinions on the sets would really be that drastically different.

 

Obviously anyone who was "disappointed" by Sigil likely would not be disappointed if it wasn't a hyped release but I doubt the aspects that they disliked that resulted in the disappointment would suddenly be things they enjoyed and the other way around.

 

No one is suddenly praising aspects of map making they hate just because John Romero's name is attached to it or it's something packaged with an official Doom release.

 

People do sometimes exaggerate the level of how different from community output these mapsets are (as evidenced by the post praising 'catwalks' as unique) but it's not like someone is talking about how The Chasm or The Pit are the worst levels in Doom 2 and then turning around and talking about the brilliance of Sigil.

 

If you look at the things someone does or does not praise about these mapsets and then look at the general style of doom level design they typically appreciate or disparage, you'll find a lot of consistency.

 

The Pit is an awful level, and has no connection of any kind to Sigil imho. It just doesn't make sense, has no sense of place, progression is confusing, and texturing is bad. The Chasm on the other hand is one of the better levels in D2. It still has some of the Petersen style flaws like bad texturing here and there, but it's a highly memorable map with some interesting ideas. At least how I see them.

[eulo]

29 minutes ago, EtherBot said:

 

 

 

RotS?

 

What's RotS?

 

Edited the OP.

[seed]

1 minute ago, eulo said:

Edited the OP.

 

You should try to quote multiple posts at once instead of spamming replies... you can actually do that.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Op I think your reviews of sigil and NRFTL are fair but the ones for community projects are extremely unfair.

 

Off-Topic:

5 minutes ago, seed said:

 

You should try to quote multiple posts at once instead of spamming replies... you can actually do that.

Lol you really love that vampire monster so much.

[Nine Inch Heels]

2 hours ago, eulo said:

 

Yay, you got your wanted likes, let's move on...

 

(and don't even try to understand what I was talking about)

You should learn when to shut it, especially when you're new to places. Have a look at the following link, and then ask yourself which one of you two is unable to wrap their head around mapping, or what's "innovative" and what isn't: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sarah_Mancuso_(esselfortium)

[[McD] James]

I dig Sigil, but it's got nothing on Back to Saturn X, that's for sure. 

[Super Mighty G]

9 hours ago, eulo said:

 

The Pit is an awful level, and has no connection of any kind to Sigil imho. It just doesn't make sense, has no sense of place, progression is confusing, and texturing is bad. The Chasm on the other hand is one of the better levels in D2. It still has some of the Petersen style flaws like bad texturing here and there, but it's a highly memorable map with some interesting ideas. At least how I see them.

The Pit is good simply for the music track. But really, what is or isn't a "good" map is entirely subjective.

[Cynical]

10 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

You should learn when to shut it, especially when you're new to places. Have a look at the following link, and then ask yourself which one of you two is unable to wrap their head around mapping, or what's "innovative" and what isn't: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sarah_Mancuso_(esselfortium)

Meh, Eulo has a point on that one; "essel makes shitpost that misrepresents someone else's argument in a 'funny' way and then gets tons of likes" has become a staple around here ever since likes were added.

[Doomkid]

I mean, come on, he's saying shootable switches, catwalks and glowing sectors are innovations - That is simply inaccurate. Essel is being hyperbolic sure but it's not a misrepresentation..

 

On 7/30/2019 at 3:37 AM, Cynical said:

Where is this glut of community-made levels that rely on inhospitable architecture, finding secrets, and crusher traps for their chalenge?  Everything I play these days is either "I'm trying to be Ribbiks but not quite succeeding" or "Entry #45745489385453890807 in the cannon of BTSX-wannabes".  The fact that I religiously avoid maps that can't be played in prboom-plus skews this some, I'll admit, but not that much.

 

Please point me to this overwhelming number of Ribbiks knockoffs and BTSX wannabes. I run a wad hosting site and this sounds like a load of baloney to me, it's multiplayer oriented though so that may be skewing it a little but I cannot name any wad I've played from last year that matches that description and would like to see one

 

EDIT: e1m4b is the best Romero pwad, literally fist fight me everyone in this thread

[eulo]

16 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

You should learn when to shut it, especially when you're new to places. Have a look at the following link, and then ask yourself which one of you two is unable to wrap their head around mapping, or what's "innovative" and what isn't: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sarah_Mancuso_(esselfortium)

 

BTSX (episode 1) is incredibly boring, I stopped caring around map10 or so. Every level felt like the same, the whole episode lacked progress, and was just dragging, dragging and dragging. DTWID series is like pretending you're Romero, Petersen or McGee without knowing jack what made their styles unique. I've played some good wads, these don't belong to them.

 

But this is highly irrelevant in this argument, I've never liked the like-hunting style trollposting, no mattter if the Christ himself is doing it.

[insertwackynamehere]

It’s ironic that this thread is now basically saying “don’t you know who I am” in defense of shitposting when the initial argument being made was that John Romero is out of line to use his name to imply a baseline level of acceptability with anything he creates.

[Linguica]

What this thread basically is, is over.

 

e: you will be shocked to learn that eulo's original account was banned months ago after weirdly hyping up Sigil and calling certain people some completely uncalled for language. Not sure how it took me so long to realize!