Doom 1-3 on the Switch?!

[Ferk]

12 hours ago, Lynnie said:

In theory, I believe the Android port was deliberately made to possibly get Delta Touch removed in the future

IANAL, but as far as I know Delta Touch currently does not contain anything from Bethesda that hasn't been explicitly allowed by the license Id Software gave to the source port code.

 

I mean, knowing how Google acts I would not completely rule out the possibility of it being taken away, but even in that case the only thing they would achieve is bad press and a lot of pissed off Doomers, removing Delta Touch from the store wouldn't necessarily kill custom Doom source ports for Android. You still have F-droid, or you could even use Retroarch which is available on the store (granted, it doesn't have good controls on phone, although I'm hopping that changes soon with the recent addition of multi-touch support on Retroarch).

 

I really think it's in their best interest to not do anything too obviously nasty with classic Doom... you can see how quickly they reacted to the backslash they got with the required Bethesda account thing, I don't think they'd want to upset the fans. Classic Doom fans are the reason Doom is still alive and kicking in the first place, the Doom community is older than ZeniMax Media Inc. (by 6 years).

 

The same thing would apply to Steam/GOG ... if they wanted to remove that they would need to do it very subtly to avoid backlash. Doing something like replacing it with the unity port. But even in that case I would expect source ports would end up adding support for the diskfile format if that actually became popular (and I think some source ports already do support disk files). Otherwise, they would get backlash anyway and I don't believe it'd be worth the effort. New young players who aren't familiar with Doom source ports by now would be more interested in the newer Doom games anyway, so they would not be the market audience regardless.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Ferk

[FreakZoneGames]

I think some people are being maybe a tad paranoid about Bethesda here. Yeah I agree that removing the last gen version from sale sucks (possibly to stop Xbox One users from getting the previous build or something?), particularly since that means Final Doom no longer has an available HD console port (it was included in the PS3 version before). But on the other hand if you look at iOS, it was released as an update to the older DOOM app which got lost back when Apple dropped 32bit support from iOS, so those of us who already bought that got this new version for free on mobile (and in the case of iOS, it’s a way better port than the old one). They didn’t need to do that. So I guess that means there’s some decency there. It’s a pity they removed the old port, for sure, if you’re somebody with an Xbox One who prefers the 4:3 aspect ratio for example! But I figure if you cared that much about DOOM you would have probably already bought it by now. It’s also worth mentioning that you will always be able to pick up a used physical copy of Doom 3 BFG for Xbox 360, which is backwards compatible on Xbox One, or for PS3.

 

As for removing the current version from Steam... Hmm... I doubt it, but I’m in two minds about it. The current Steam version is straight up the OG game running in DOSbox, so no modern controls and things, for me that’s only good for getting the WAD files legit and dropping them into a source port. But indeed it would be a shame to no longer have those, if they did replace it with the newer version and they’re somehow not accessible, and the Wolfenstein stages are censored and all that. I’m sceptical though. They all know how big the modding scene is.

 

EDIT: My PS4 just downloaded an update to Doom 1 & 2 (and I assume my Switch will too when I fire it up) which says it removes the mandatory login. However I see no option for signing out or removing auto sign in to the account I created when it launched. But I guess newbies can skip the sign up now.

Edited August 15, 2019 by FreakZoneGames : Autocorrect typos

[chemo]

On 8/2/2019 at 10:52 AM, printz said:

Stuff like this I suspect is happening with Doom 3 (BFG Edition replacing it)

I know I'm a bit late but what do you mean? While the BFG Edition was the base for all subsequent ports and the GOG release, the original version of DOOM 3 is still available on Steam.

[Devalaous]

So, now that the mandatory login is patched out, letting me play offline, I grabbed both Doom 1 and 2 and had a look.

 

These ports play very well, and are almost the best console versions yet. Almost. The D-pad weapon selection is gone from Doom Classic Complete, so pulling out the best weapon for the moment is a nightmare, and you cannot bring out the fist, even when berserk, if the chainsaw has been collected. There is also no internet play, or any leaderboard support, unlike all other modern console ports. The ingame cheat menu lacks a music cheat, something sorely needed in the Doom 2 port when playing the Master Levels. The lack of Final Doom and NRFTL is also a kick in the shin, given we got both in DCC, the previous Doom port which this was likely built off.

However, those issues aside, it plays very smoothly, compared to DCC, and the menus actually function. The Doom 1 port is absolutely fine, and the doom 2 port, while lacking NRFTL, does have the Master Levels, which are for the FIRST time on console, fully accurate to the PC originals, loading up as seperate wads, starry skies intact, in the original mapslots they were always in.

 

These are pretty decent ports for non-PC Doomers, I'd say they are worth the small fee. A mere 8 NZD here for each. Doom 2 gives more content for your money, with 52 levels worth. The Switch version is probably great fun, being able to whip it out and fool around in any master level you want at any time, or to blast through E1 for the millionth time on a bus.

At some point, im also going to be able to play Doom coop for the first time, as that nightmare local coop trophy for each port has my brother interested for once. These ports definitely arent as horrific as some people seem to think.

[Buckshot]

they are releasing another patch to address map lighting/sound/music issues that have been brought up, as well as other changes

[Space Marinara]

I wonder if they'll add an option for the 120% taller pixel aspect too...

[Eurisko]

Glad they are changing the music up. I guess the criticism worked. 

 

 

[Buckshot]

I really hope that they leave a option to let the noise pitches be toggeable. 

 

I actually think it sounds cool, and adds some unintended variation to sound effects. Even the slower music... It wasn't all bad. Some tracks sounded a little cooler I thought. Not most, but some.

[FreakZoneGames]

The sound pitches thing so interesting. DOOM was always intended to have sound pitch variation, it was present in releases of the game up until 1.4, where they took it out because it broke the updated version of the audio API they were using. IMO DOOM’s sounds work much better with the variation, with all the monster screams and things that happen all at once.

[seed]

6 hours ago, FreakZoneGames said:

The sound pitches thing so interesting. DOOM was always intended to have sound pitch variation, it was present in releases of the game up until 1.4, where they took it out because it broke the updated version of the audio API they were using. IMO DOOM’s sounds work much better with the variation, with all the monster screams and things that happen all at once.

 

Randomized pitches was an interesting feature which I like as well, but it got lost after both Radek and id half-assed some code updates which broke it.

 

But Doom was not meant to have randomized sounds, actually. I asked Romero about this back in January and he described it as being "mostly experimental" at the time it was implemented, and the sounds effects were not designed with the feature in mind. He himself didn't like it either.

[FreakZoneGames]

Interesting. For me it adds a lot to the feel of the carnage when the cacophony of screams and roars has some variety to it. I usually enable it when using source exports on PC too.

[Ferk]

I don't mind the sfx pitches, but imho the aspect correction is important.
It's noticeable for things like Cacodemons, instead of being round they are squished.

[FreakZoneGames]

It's an interesting one, that. Because even back in the day different versions of the game used different scaling. As you've shown there, Cacodemons are more circular with the 1:1.2 pixel ratio of the original DOS release when stretched to 4:3, and more squat with 1:1 square pixels. DOOM 95 (the Windows version of DOOM which came out a couple of years later) had multiple resolution options, the more commonly used would be 640x480 which lead to the result of the 'squat cacodemon' on the left there, and some of the console ports did that too, as did early source ports like Doom Legacy, so a lot of us are used to that version too.

In fact, I could also put forward a few arguments for the 1:1 pixel art ratio. For example, Soulspheres:

 

It's not circular in 4:3. Maybe it's not supposed to be circular? Well, I think that'd be a bit odd since it is called a Soul SPHERE, not a Soul Ellipse. Same with other things I assume are supposed to be even circles, like the BFG blast, invisibility sphere etc.

On the other hand you have stuff like the Mancubus' weapons as its arms move. With 1:1 pixels, the gun appears shorter when vertical and longer when horizontal, whilst in 1:1.2 they remain the same.

So I've always said it's 'swings and roundabouts', both aspect ratios are perfectly valid IMO, and really it was quite common in the DOS era since the 320x200 resolution saved a lot of resources by skipping those 40 lines, and while some art was drawn with it in mind, some things weren't (for example the soul sphere here), and we just sort of accepted that was how games looked at the time.

Ideally, I'd want the whole game reframed for widescreen while retaining the original ratio, like most source ports do, but my personal preference between either 4:3 with letterboxing, and the 16:10 we got with the much less prominent letterboxing, is the latter, just because I find it much more immersive when it takes up a lot more of my TV. That being said though, this is the maximum wideness I'd be happy with, going from 4:3 to 16:10 or vice versa is not hugely noticeable (again, we used to see it all the time with games that supported both 320x200 and 320x240), but going from 4:3 to 16:9 is well over the threshold and would look very squashed.

I mean obviously I understand why some people are annoyed by it, and an option would be nice. Personally I'm enjoying having DOOM fill most of my big TV and the aspect ratio issues have never been a problem to me since the game never really could decide on one in the first place.

 

 

On another note, I wonder what they mean by "Performance improvements"? I don't recall the game having any performance issues, it appears to always run at the 35fps lock, unless they're intending to program in a 60fps mode like the source ports do. That would be nice but I'm not going to hold out for that.

Edited September 3, 2019 by FreakZoneGames

[SaladBadger]

I always assumed the soulsphere thing was more or less the artist drawing on top of a circle made with the circle tool. Playing around with Deluxe Paint 2 briefly, it doesn't apply aspect ratio correction in the 320x200 mode when drawing circles. Actually, the circle I drew had the exact same pixel shape as the soul sphere...

 

Why didn't they compensate for it? I dunno, it might have been more work to do so they didn't find worth it. They clearly knew about the problem since their photosourced material compensated for it.

[Ferk]

Like SaladBadger mentioned, proof that they did know about it is that the physical models match the 4:3 versions:

 

But the soulsphere is indeed an interesting one. I guess doing pixel art by hand makes it more troublesome to aspect-correct, most likely they corrected all the drawing scans and photos when they scaled them down, but when doing pixel art from scratch maybe they did not care so much about it.

Also if the alternative is a narrower screen with more letterboxing then you've got a point.

 

It would be interesting if they did spend the effort to make a sort of remastered version where they make the graphics consistent across the board (and since we are talking remaster... having things like 16 rotations would be pretty awesome :P ..though unlikely to happen).

[FreakZoneGames]

Yeah. I’ve no delusions that 4:3 isn’t the “correct” aspect ratio, but stuff like this makes me not really mind when the game is presented in 16:10, with the added benefit of a nice, big, TV-filling picture. If it had been stretched all the way to 16:9 I’d have been annoyed, though.

[WolfBlue]

People have probably said this before but I thought it was super lame No rest for the wicked wasn't included in switch doom 2, master levels is a nice inclusion though.

 

Also where the heckie is my final doom on switch? is tnt and plutonia now just forgotten games? maybe trouble licensing them from the Casali brothers? cause than we'd have pretty much every single doom on switch from 1 - eternal 

[FreakZoneGames]

A bit weird that No Rest For The Wicked didn't show up after it was in the previous release that this was based on, definitely. Perhaps there was a legal reason for that?

 

Final Doom though? Can't say I'm particularly bothered by it not being included. If I remember correctly the only console port (aside from the PS1 one back in the day) was on PS3 in 'Doom Classic Complete'. I dunno if I feel like taking on Plutonia Chaingunner and Revenant spam without a mouse, though...

[famicommander]

2 hours ago, WolfBlue said:

People have probably said this before but I thought it was super lame No rest for the wicked wasn't included in switch doom 2, master levels is a nice inclusion though.

 

Also where the heckie is my final doom on switch? is tnt and plutonia now just forgotten games? maybe trouble licensing them from the Casali brothers? cause than we'd have pretty much every single doom on switch from 1 - eternal 

They're still selling Final Doom on Steam and GOG, so I don't think it's a rights issue.

 

What Switch is still missing after Eternal and Doom 64:

No Rest for the Living (9 maps)

Final Doom (64 maps)

Console Doom exclusive levels (2 introduced in the Jaguar version, 6 introduced in the PS1 version, 2 introduced in the Xbox ports, and 8 GBA exclusive death match maps)

Doom VFR (obviously probably not happening)

 

That's everything but the cell phone games.

[whatup876]

I'm not sure if this was reported here but Doom 2 on PS4 has a really sloppy problem that seems to have taken a while to be noticed because nobody sane touches these ports.

Yet it affects the main campaign.

 

After The Chasm, the game switches to the master levels, or at least one of them, Black Tower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgFNAwUjN6U

 

I wonder if it's present on other versions.

[Nevander]

Why is it so hard for them to release the games correctly? It's been happening forever.

 

1. Doom 3 CE on Xbox only had Doom 1 and 2. This I can forgive because it was the first port to the new console and all.

 

2. The ports to XBLA were great (the best console ports IMO) and we even got NRFTL. But they never did Final Doom or Master Levels.

 

3. Doom Classic Complete for PS3 and PC. This one is a big wtf, PS3 got Final Doom, Master Levels and NRFTL. The PC version is just a bundle of what's already on Steam. And Xbox 360 gets shit on and gets nothing new.

 

4. Doom 3 BFG Edition. This was their chance to give us everything on all major platforms. I'm talking Doom, Doom 2, NRFTL, Final Doom, and Master Levels. But of course they blew it, gave us basically a remaster of the Doom 3 CE from long ago.

 

5. And now on the Switch, they forget Final Doom and give us Master Levels instead. Really strange to give us that instead of Final Doom.

 

Like is it really that hard? They have the rights to release them all, and they have already on various systems. Just put them all together for us on all the major consoles.

 

And of course, the PS1 Doom has never gotten a remaster which is lame. You'd think they would have done that for PS3 at some point.

[seed]

They're screwing up probably because they just want to rush stuff out the door rather than take their time and do them right, which clearly showed in how quickly (and lazily) packed were the Unity ports. But indeed, I wonder what's up with all the missing releases as of late, particularly Final Doom.

 

8 hours ago, Nevander said:

And of course, the PS1 Doom has never gotten a remaster which is lame. You'd think they would have done that for PS3 at some point.

 

I would love to see a PSX Doom multiplatform remaster, but why do I have a feeling the PC version would be horrible if done by Bethesda... if they want to get that game done right they're better off letting someone like NDS do it instead, just like they're handling Doom 64.

Edited September 19, 2019 by seed

[FreakZoneGames]

8 hours ago, Nevander said:

Why is it so hard for them to release the games correctly? It's been happening forever.

 

1. Doom 3 CE on Xbox only had Doom 1 and 2. This I can forgive because it was the first port to the new console and all.

Also the Doom 3 Xbox version has the Knee Deep in the Dead skybox for the whole game, ruining the atmosphere for the hell stages especially.

 

As for Final Doom, I can't say I care much. I find Evilution to be mostly garbage and Plutonia to be a complete cluster fuck (A million chain gunners and revenants = better level design, right guys? :P). Of course it'd be nice if people could play them but really I'm not too bothered about them not being included and I wouldn't call it a 'fuck up' in that regard. It is a bit weird that we get Master Levels though. Perhaps they're planning to release Final Doom at a later date.

 

 

As for PSX Doom remaster - While that would be cool I'm not going to lose any sleep over it not happening. I've played the Total Conversion and it's weird how barren all the levels look in high resolution, and the coloured sectors don't do much to alleviate that (they look kinda goofy once it's in HD in all honesty)... But Doom 64 is coming out and that has all the Aubrey Hodges sounds and music and a much improved version of the coloured sector lighting. So it's cool that we will have a representation of that vision of the franchise available on modern hardware.

 

 

I'm still looking forward to seeing these fixes they talked about. I feel like since they were 'shadow dropped' (launched without buildup) on the anniversary of the game, some stuff was rushed a little. I think this could be a great port with a few minor fixes.

Edited September 19, 2019 by FreakZoneGames

[Gez]

15 hours ago, WolfBlue said:

I thought it was super lame No rest for the wicked wasn't included

 

12 hours ago, FreakZoneGames said:

A bit weird that No Rest For The Wicked didn't show up

The title is "No Rest for the Living".

 

Perhaps they made the same mistake, sought the fabled "No Rest for the Wicked" levels, but couldn't find anything with that name and that's why it's missing? :p

[Doomkid]

13 hours ago, famicommander said:

Console Doom exclusive levels (2 introduced in the Jaguar version, 6 introduced in the PS1 version, 2 introduced in the Xbox ports, and 8 GBA exclusive dm maps)

Bleh, other than the PS1 maps, good riddance. Final Doom really should be there though, not having Final Doom is like not having the Japanese Mario 2 in a Classic Mario pack or something.. The Doom RPG games would also be perfect for switch, especially considering they were built for a portable console in the first place. I'm not holding my breath, but it'd be cool.

 

11 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I'm not sure if this was reported here but Doom 2 on PS4 has a really sloppy problem that seems to have taken a while to be noticed because nobody sane touches these ports.

Yet it affects the main campaign.

 

After The Chasm, the game switches to the master levels, or at least one of them, Black Tower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgFNAwUjN6U

 

I wonder if it's present on other versions.

What the fuck! LOL that is terrible! Some new player would have no way of knowing that was the wrong map, either. I hope that was just some one-off bug, because if that's common... Good lord. So close to the end of the game too! What a giant middle finger salute, lmfao.

[FreakZoneGames]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

 

The title is "No Rest for the Living".

 

Perhaps they made the same mistake, sought the fabled "No Rest for the Wicked" levels, but couldn't find anything with that name and that's why it's missing? :p

Slip of the tongue. No Rest For The Wicked is the original phrase it's playing off of :P

[whatup876]

On 9/18/2019 at 10:34 PM, famicommander said:

That's everything but the cell phone games.

 

The RPG games are interesting enough to give ideas for something like MetaDoom and even something for the "do id games share the same universe" discussions, while being good for what are supposedly mobile/phone spin offs of video game franchises.

It's a shame that despite what i mentioned, they're obscure enough most people don't even think about how they're barely preserved, when Doom fans have been working on source ports, longivety, modding, documentation etc around these games and made multiple pc versions of Doom 64, to ensure the series' legacy is even bigger and bigger.

 

I know about Gerardo and Erick's project on the RPG games but Doom Resurrection (on rail D3 shooter) is a bigger lost cause and i don't think it can be played in any way again whatsoever, so all there is is Linguica's videos about it.

 

And we're in a day and age of Nintendo going after ROM/emulator sites and companies convincing you that "streaming games is the future".

 

Edit: i also can't imagine Bethesda or modern id being interested in bringing back these games or even owning them or their code at all.

 

On 9/19/2019 at 9:10 AM, FreakZoneGames said:

Also the Doom 3 Xbox version has the Knee Deep in the Dead skybox for the whole game, ruining the atmosphere for the hell stages especially.

 

A tiny detail that kinda bothers me is how they changed the TITLEPIC's, even if it's meaningless.

Meanwhile, the ouch face glitch is still there.

They should have learned something from source ports, really.

Or even stuff like that sprite fix mod.

 

Quote

As for Final Doom, I can't say I care much. I find Evilution to be mostly garbage and Plutonia to be a complete cluster fuck (A million chain gunners and revenants = better level design, right guys? :P). Of course it'd be nice if people could play them but really I'm not too bothered about them not being included and I wouldn't call it a 'fuck up' in that regard. It is a bit weird that we get Master Levels though. Perhaps they're planning to release Final Doom at a later date.

 

I'd say both episodes have their neat moments and ideas while Plutonia was made for someone that thought D2 wasn't challenging enough but i can't see it being fun on a console.

 

Quote

As for PSX Doom remaster - While that would be cool I'm not going to lose any sleep over it not happening. I've played the Total Conversion and it's weird how barren all the levels look in high resolution, and the coloured sectors don't do much to alleviate that (they look kinda goofy once it's in HD in all honesty)... But Doom 64 is coming out and that has all the Aubrey Hodges sounds and music and a much improved version of the coloured sector lighting. So it's cool that we will have a representation of that vision of the franchise available on modern hardware.

 

PS1 version still had some exclusive levels and the nightmare Spectres along with Revenant's new sounds and the OST sounding different.

I also know about the Final Doom/Master levels on the PS1 and they had a different TITLEPIC and a slightly different night skybox (?) so maybe mix that up with the PS1 take on Doom 1/2 for a rerelease, i guess. (like extra episodes)

 

Then the GBA ports had level changes, better take on Wolfenstein censorship and a blue filter for the invulsphere and the 3** port, while a major sin, had some cool or okay music remasters. (also, the SNES port could have been in a virtual console/SNES section/shop thing i guess)

 

I do wonder what the Switch/"official" D64 version could bring to the game.

Like, new levels and content isn't a possibilty but maybe a little detail, like having the Mother Demon show up in the cast sequence in the game's ending?

This is so more people get to look at her design and that broken back of hers. (just thought that part looked cool)

 

Edit as of like 23/24 of this month: a crazier thing to happen is Sigil ever showing up in a "official" Doom collection, specially when you consider the artwork and music for it, along with the updates recently released.

Edited September 24, 2019 by whatup876 : adding more

[Linguica]

 

[FreakZoneGames]

Yep, update is out. Can confirm:

 

• Music sounds better and is at full speed. It's a new soundfont, it's definitely Roland SC-55, which is ideal. I did a comparison and it sounds identical.
• Lighting is now perfect. All rooms are the correct brightness. Tested up to E1M3 for the room where the lights go out, it now blacks out as it should.
• Retains the DOS color palette; combined with the fixed lighting it means it really looks like it should in the hell levels now, with that 'effervescent' effect where the colours on textures change as they get further away.
• It's still 16:10 aspect ratio (1:1 pixels), not 4:3 (original DOS aspect ratio). IMO this is fine, your mileage may vary.
• Appears to still run at 35fps but perhaps frame pacing is a little better? I could be wrong. Currently testing on my Switch in handheld mode, I'll be able to tell this better when I can fire it up on the 4K TV later (where I'll be testing the PS4 version).
• Bethesda.net login no longer happens automatically, it appears as an option in the menu instead, so startup is much quicker as it goes immediately to the menu instead of trying to log in.
• There's now a 'News' option on the title menu. Selecting it currently tells you about the update. I expect this will be used for Slayers Club stuff.

 

IMO this is now the best console port of DOOM as it fixes the issues it inherited from the PS360/D3BFG ports. It's still not on par with any of the fan-made PC source ports of course, but as of this patch it's the best console version we've had. The fact that the music is now SC-55 based is great as that's what Robert Prince composed the music with, so it's now exactly as the composer intended. The aspect ratio may bother you (I've explained further up in this thread why it doesn't bother me, it's not the first official version of DOOM to do it and I kinda like having more of my TV taken up), but other than that there are no disadvantages to this version compared to DOS, and it's now far superior to the port from last gen. Nice!

[ZeroTheEro]

I bought Switch Lite earlier today and played the pre-patched Doom for a few minutes and then after the patch dropped.

The differences are very night and day now. Now waiting patiently how they would handle Doom 64.