Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Tangerine

Doom 1-3 on the Switch?!

Recommended Posts

Unless they meant 'mistake' as "yeah that was a terrible idea, sorry guys, our mistake" ūüėČ

Share this post


Link to post

Or: ‚ÄúWe thought we could get away with it, but that was a mistake.‚ÄĚ

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Now that I think about it, and how they appeared to lock some titles on their platform a while ago... and repeated attempts to force people into using Bethesda.net, it starts making more sense actually. And indeed, the wording of the message did not indicate anything optional...

 

3 hours ago, Buckshot said:

Thing is, even if they had made the "perfect" port... Someone would still find something to nitpick about.

 

That's unavoidable really, another good example is Blood FS. It was rushed out the door, but NDS is actively working hard on it to make it as good as they can and are really listening to feedback. But ultimately, FS is a port purists and "accuracy whores" will absolutely never accept. If it's not perfect by their standards and 100% accurate it's trash automatically.

 

My point here is that there's a difference between rushed, and lazily put together, and considering how inferior the Unity remasters of Doom are there's no reason to see them as being more than what they actually are. The old version was more complete and it was obvious that effort was put into creating it, despite having its share of issues (it also had serious problems at launch which were supposedly ironed out, such as the speed of enemies not being changed on Nightmare difficulty). People are justifyingly complaining about the port as there are major problems present at this time, this isn't about nitpicking.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, seed said:

My point here is that there's a difference between rushed, and lazily put together, and considering how inferior the Unity remasters of Doom are there's no reason to see them as being more than what they actually are. The old version was more complete and it was obvious that effort was put into creating it, despite having its share of issues (it also had serious problems at launch which were supposedly ironed out, such as the speed of enemies not being changed on Nightmare difficulty). People are justifyingly complaining about the port as there are major problems present at this time, this isn't about nitpicking.

 

 

The only *major* problem (er, mistake) was the login issue that prevented (some) people logging in, and it seems that has been rectified or removed from being mandatory.

 

The other problems are far from major and not game breaking... lighting issues, audio rate, some slightly edited maps to snip certain content (NIN logo, SS soldiers/banners etc), akward spiltscreen resolution, movement speed. None of which amounts to the "dumpster fire" bandwagon people are jumping on, and certainly none of it that can't be fixed in a patch or two.

 

The re-release games play, from start to finish, in their entirety without any major game breaking bugs or performance issues. They may not be *exact*, but they still play, and close enough for the untrained eye (or ears, for this matter).

 

Again, the overwhelming majority of people who bought it probably don't even notice nor care about these problems and are happily playing away. The diehard doom veterans in niche communities such as this one obviously do notice these things, and yes, they are a nuances... but we have a bazillion other ways to play it in its original or enhanced form. Just because it's been released officially on Android won't stop me from using a better port like D-Touch. Just because I can play it on my PS4 or switch won't me from playing it vanilla on dosbox or choclatedoom, or even a actual 486dx2 system I have in my basement, or even on doom legacy, GZdoom, or doomsday for a modern edge. Couch multiplay is great, but nobody is abadoning zandro in favor of it. Those methods to play are still and always will be there, and while this version isn't perfect, it's far from the worst release of DOOM we've ever seen. 

 

Sorry for the reality check, but here I sit at near age 40 arguing about a game made in 1993 and how a re-release almost 30 years later "isn't up to snuff"... I mean geez, lol. Assuming we all make it another 30 years, are we still going to be sitting here arguing at age 70 or 80 about how future re-releases don't cut muster with the game from 60 years ago? Where do we draw the line where we just start sounding like grumpy old gamers whom are set in their way and their time passed long ago? As long as we have the ability to play it in its original form, or modified if we want to, what does it even matter what they release? Nobody is twisting arms to force anyone to play re-releases if they don't want to.

 

Though there is still one thing that confuses me... Why they ported it through unity. That *still* seems like it's far more work than necessary to port something so easily ported in its unmodified entirety by others over the years to so many platforms without having to go through such a drastic measure to rebuild it.

 

 

Edited by Buckshot

Share this post


Link to post
On 7/28/2019 at 5:15 AM, WadArchive said:

 

There is now a new background image lump called DMENUPIC in Doom and Doom 2:

DMENUPIC.png.29193598cfaed411ee0d029bec1acbb8.png

 

I just realized... isn't this the TITLEPIC from NERVE.WAD?

I guess this is further proof that NRFTL was intentionally removed, I very much doubt they'll add it back.

Share this post


Link to post

What I'm really wondering is how come DOOM 3's port doesn't require a BethNet account? It's even worded as such in the eShop page.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Buckshot said:

Though there is still one thing that confuses me... Why they ported it through unity.

 

There are a few reasons I can think of. The most obvious is because Unity works across all the platforms they wanted to support, so if they created a Unity wrapper for Doom (or transcoded the gameplay code into C# or whatever) then they could work on all the ports simultaneously without having to fix up their own codebase to be aggressively multiplatform. Unity also has all sorts of code for networking and network transfers and would be easier to integrate the BethesdaNet API into.

 

Another possible reason is that due to the timetable and budget they were given, mashing Doom into Unity was the only feasible option to get all the platforms finished by QuakeCon, despite being a "hack" of sorts.

 

A more cynical reason is that they wanted to stay far away from GPLed code, which would be a little odd considering id Software still owns the Doom code and can license it to themselves however they want.

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Linguica said:

A more cynical reason is that they wanted to stay far away from GPLed code, which would be a little odd considering id Software still owns the Doom code and can license it to themselves however they want.

 

But I don't think they would be able to use any changes authored by other source port authors without releasing it back as GPL.

They might end up having to walk on eggshells if they ever want to add any features that might have already been coded previously in GPLed ports.

Share this post


Link to post
On 7/27/2019 at 7:35 AM, seed said:

I don't understand the hate for Unity and even for requiring a Bethesda account to play...

 

Can someone at least elaborate on why using Unity for the classic Doom games is such a horrible idea?

 

No mod support basically. And to be honest it's just plain pointless. What would Doom 64 even benefit from using Unity? It's a sprite based game. Actually, it would not only not benefit it but outright harm but by completely destroying the original design of the game. The sector based lightning of Doom is a big part of the visual presentation and to use Unity's lightning system would completely change the mood of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Boomslang said:

any news about the ports being unfucked?

This is what I fear:

 

1) Bethesda releases shitty port with several issues

2) Bethesda fixes the one issue people have been most vocal about (DRM)

3) Bethesda are seen as heroes by sheeple as a result

4) Bethesda feels their job is done and doesn't do shit about all the other issues

 

But I hope this is not the case.

Share this post


Link to post
25 minutes ago, unerxai said:

This is what I fear:

 

1) Bethesda releases shitty port with several issues

2) Bethesda fixes the one issue people have been most vocal about (DRM)

3) Bethesda are seen as heroes by sheeple as a result

4) Bethesda feels their job is done and doesn't do shit about all the other issues

 

But I hope this is not the case.

same

Share this post


Link to post

So guess what? The XBLA ports of Doom and Doom 2 were not just delisted, they were entirely removed and became undownloadable for those that had bought them just like PT. 

 

They are now 'fixing' this, but I'm doubting this was an accident. 

 

Wonder if it's also been fully removed from PSN too? 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Devalaous said:

So guess what? The XBLA ports of Doom and Doom 2 were not just delisted, they were entirely removed and became undownloadable for those that had bought them just like PT. 

 

They are now 'fixing' this, but I'm doubting this was an accident. 

 

Wonder if it's also been fully removed from PSN too? 

 

I fault them for delisting them for purchase as there was really no reason to.

I don't fault them for the games not being able to be downloaded again if you've purchased them; that would fall on Microsoft/Xbox.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, unerxai said:

This is what I fear:

 

1) Bethesda releases shitty port with several issues

2) Bethesda fixes the one issue people have been most vocal about (DRM)

3) Bethesda are seen as heroes by sheeple as a result

4) Bethesda feels their job is done and doesn't do shit about all the other issues

 

But I hope this is not the case.

 

My money is on the DRM, they probably can't be arsed to fix the rest of the problems. I'd be glad to be proved wrong.

 

39 minutes ago, wheresthebeef said:

I fault them for delisting them for purchase as there was really no reason to.

 

Well how else do you force people into buying your new product? The easy way is to remove the older and replace it so that people have only two choices (buy or not to buy).

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, seed said:

Well how else do you force people into buying your new product? The easy way is to remove the older and replace it so that people have only two choices (buy or not to buy).

 

Bethesda already has a precedent here for this. Regular Doom 3 is no longer available, in favour of the BFG edition. Regular Skyrim is also no longer available, in favour of Special Edition. All of these releases change or strip features, and are objectively worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, seed said:

Well how else do you force people into buying your new product? The easy way is to remove the older and replace it so that people have only two choices (buy or not to buy).

 

Delisting a game for purchase from Xbox Live isn't suppose to stop it from being downloaded. For instance you can't buy the Scott Pilgrim game or the DLC yet I own both and can still download them to this day.

 

Doom and Doom 2 being delisted is because Bethesda wants everyone to buy the newer versions, yes, but the games not being downloadable for those that purchased them already is a screw up on Microsoft's part. Its their service and they're suppose to make sure that never happens. If this happened on BNet, it would be on Bethesda.

 

The only anomaly AFAIK has been PT, but that both wasn't sold and also was PSN, not Xbox Live.

Share this post


Link to post

There have been other things removed permanently, generally stuff with aggressive licensing.

The PSN version of Doom is, or WAS, I should say, the ONLY port in the entire history of Doom to have Final Doom in its entirety, and also had every single official level packaged. so its a real shame to see it gone, with noequivalent upgrade in place for the PS4 and onwards. Your not supposed to go backwards!

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, wheresthebeef said:

Delisting a game for purchase from Xbox Live isn't suppose to stop it from being downloaded. For instance you can't buy the Scott Pilgrim game or the DLC yet I own both and can still download them to this day.

 

Doom and Doom 2 being delisted is because Bethesda wants everyone to buy the newer versions, yes, but the games not being downloadable for those that purchased them already is a screw up on Microsoft's part. Its their service and they're suppose to make sure that never happens. If this happened on BNet, it would be on Bethesda.

 

I dunno why you're bringing this up though, since I didn't refer to the game being rendered impossible to download by the owners.

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, Ferk said:

 

I just realized... isn't this the TITLEPIC from NERVE.WAD?

I guess this is further proof that NRFTL was intentionally removed, I very much doubt they'll add it back.

Turns out it is in the original XBLA WADs as well, before NRFTL

Share this post


Link to post
On 7/27/2019 at 1:31 PM, Buckshot said:

This. I want to know why unity is supposedly so terrible.

 

I've been playing it on my switch in some couch coop & dm (so fun! Like n64 split screen days all over again!) with my brother in law, and yeah... It controls like any other analog stick/gamepad game, but it runs very well and doesn't seem drastically different other than some minor changes (pills on medpacks like BFG edition), maybe some lighting is off here or there.

 

Also picked it up on Android, plays identical as switch version. Of course, better off using belokos doom touch for more customizations and mods and native nostalgia on android... but overall the switch/PS4/xbone/Android/iOS official classic release works and plays remarkably well for vanilla with some resolution improvements.

 

So why again is unity terrible (other than it's overengineering a classic title for a port that probably didn't require that much effort anyway)??

 

Because it's the difference between 450mb and 25mb on a system that is seriously challenged for space, and @seed, having any game you own put behind an additional DRM wall sucks, big. DRM should be invisible, you bought the game, you own it legally, the game should require no more additional steps to play and sure as hell shouldn't penalize you for not being connected to the internet.  Even Bethesda agrees with that. 

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, Linguica said:

so if they created a Unity wrapper for Doom

It's pretty much what they did, isn't it? People posted screenshots of the E1M1 slimetrail in the Switch port, so that's a strong hint that the original renderer is still there; with Unity taking being in charge of display but not rendering. Just like how Chocolate Doom uses OpenGL but it's still the software renderer nonetheless.

 

The music, though, that was apparently rewritten to use wavs instead of MUS. The Xbox port had already gone from using the IWAD's internal MUS lump to using external MIDI files played through TiMidity.

 

The brightness glitch is also probably a vanilla issue, since for some reason the brightness depends on the screen size. When they adapted it to the Switch's resolution, it probably triggered this and made everything too bright as a side-effect.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, seed said:

 

I dunno why you're bringing this up though, since I didn't refer to the game being rendered impossible to download by the owners.

 

Because my original post you quoted was a response to someone else bringing it up in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, wheresthebeef said:

Because my original post you quoted was a response to someone else bringing it up in the first place.

 

I quoted (and replied to) a very specific part of your post :p.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Are these ports worth buying if you already own DOOM 3 BFG Edition on 360/PS3?

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Eurisko said:

Are these ports worth buying if you already own DOOM 3 BFG Edition on 360/PS3?

 

Nope. The new classic Doom ports are lazily put together and they have none of the expansions the old port came with, apart from some (all?) Master Levels.

 

Unless you want to own them on PS4/XBone there's no reason to buy them.

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, seed said:

 

Nope. The new classic Doom ports are lazily put together and they have none of the expansions the old port came with, apart from some (all?) Master Levels.

 

Unless you want to own them on PS4/XBone there's no reason to buy them.

I thought as much. I'll probably get them on PS4 at some point if they crop up in a sale , even its just for trophy hunting. 

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×