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Tangerine

Doom 1-3 on the Switch?!

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Lynnie said:

In theory, I believe the Android port was deliberately made to possibly get Delta Touch removed in the future

IANAL, but as far as I know Delta Touch currently does not contain anything from Bethesda that hasn't been explicitly allowed by the license Id Software gave to the source port code.

 

I mean, knowing how Google acts I would not completely rule out the possibility of it being taken away, but even in that case the only thing they would achieve is bad press and a lot of pissed off Doomers, removing Delta Touch from the store wouldn't necessarily kill custom Doom source ports for Android. You still have F-droid, or you could even use Retroarch which is available on the store (granted, it doesn't have good controls on phone, although I'm hopping that changes soon with the recent addition of multi-touch support on Retroarch).

 

I really think it's in their best interest to not do anything too obviously nasty with classic Doom... you can see how quickly they reacted to the backslash they got with the required Bethesda account thing, I don't think they'd want to upset the fans. Classic Doom fans are the reason Doom is still alive and kicking in the first place, the Doom community is older than ZeniMax Media Inc. (by 6 years).

 

The same thing would apply to Steam/GOG ... if they wanted to remove that they would need to do it very subtly to avoid backlash. Doing something like replacing it with the unity port. But even in that case I would expect source ports would end up adding support for the diskfile format if that actually became popular (and I think some source ports already do support disk files). Otherwise, they would get backlash anyway and I don't believe it'd be worth the effort. New young players who aren't familiar with Doom source ports by now would be more interested in the newer Doom games anyway, so they would not be the market audience regardless.

Edited by Ferk

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Posted (edited)

I think some people are being maybe a tad paranoid about Bethesda here. Yeah I agree that removing the last gen version from sale sucks (possibly to stop Xbox One users from getting the previous build or something?), particularly since that means Final Doom no longer has an available HD console port (it was included in the PS3 version before). But on the other hand if you look at iOS, it was released as an update to the older DOOM app which got lost back when Apple dropped 32bit support from iOS, so those of us who already bought that got this new version for free on mobile (and in the case of iOS, it’s a way better port than the old one). They didn’t need to do that. So I guess that means there’s some decency there. It’s a pity they removed the old port, for sure, if you’re somebody with an Xbox One who prefers the 4:3 aspect ratio for example! But I figure if you cared that much about DOOM you would have probably already bought it by now. It’s also worth mentioning that you will always be able to pick up a used physical copy of Doom 3 BFG for Xbox 360, which is backwards compatible on Xbox One, or for PS3.

 

As for removing the current version from Steam... Hmm... I doubt it, but I’m in two minds about it. The current Steam version is straight up the OG game running in DOSbox, so no modern controls and things, for me that’s only good for getting the WAD files legit and dropping them into a source port. But indeed it would be a shame to no longer have those, if they did replace it with the newer version and they’re somehow not accessible, and the Wolfenstein stages are censored and all that. I’m sceptical though. They all know how big the modding scene is.

 

EDIT: My PS4 just downloaded an update to Doom 1 & 2 (and I assume my Switch will too when I fire it up) which says it removes the mandatory login. However I see no option for signing out or removing auto sign in to the account I created when it launched. But I guess newbies can skip the sign up now.

Edited by FreakZoneGames : Autocorrect typos

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On 8/2/2019 at 10:52 AM, printz said:

Stuff like this I suspect is happening with Doom 3 (BFG Edition replacing it)

I know I'm a bit late but what do you mean? While the BFG Edition was the base for all subsequent ports and the GOG release, the original version of DOOM 3 is still available on Steam.

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So, now that the mandatory login is patched out, letting me play offline, I grabbed both Doom 1 and 2 and had a look.

 

These ports play very well, and are almost the best console versions yet. Almost. The D-pad weapon selection is gone from Doom Classic Complete, so pulling out the best weapon for the moment is a nightmare, and you cannot bring out the fist, even when berserk, if the chainsaw has been collected. There is also no internet play, or any leaderboard support, unlike all other modern console ports. The ingame cheat menu lacks a music cheat, something sorely needed in the Doom 2 port when playing the Master Levels. The lack of Final Doom and NRFTL is also a kick in the shin, given we got both in DCC, the previous Doom port which this was likely built off.

However, those issues aside, it plays very smoothly, compared to DCC, and the menus actually function. The Doom 1 port is absolutely fine, and the doom 2 port, while lacking NRFTL, does have the Master Levels, which are for the FIRST time on console, fully accurate to the PC originals, loading up as seperate wads, starry skies intact, in the original mapslots they were always in.

 

These are pretty decent ports for non-PC Doomers, I'd say they are worth the small fee. A mere 8 NZD here for each. Doom 2 gives more content for your money, with 52 levels worth. The Switch version is probably great fun, being able to whip it out and fool around in any master level you want at any time, or to blast through E1 for the millionth time on a bus.

At some point, im also going to be able to play Doom coop for the first time, as that nightmare local coop trophy for each port has my brother interested for once. These ports definitely arent as horrific as some people seem to think.

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Posted (edited)

they are releasing another patch to address map lighting/sound/music issues that have been brought up, as well as other changes

Screenshot_20190830-182613~2.png

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Glad they are changing the music up. I guess the criticism worked. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I really hope that they leave a option to let the noise pitches be toggeable. 

 

I actually think it sounds cool, and adds some unintended variation to sound effects. Even the slower music... It wasn't all bad. Some tracks sounded a little cooler I thought. Not most, but some.

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The sound pitches thing so interesting. DOOM was always intended to have sound pitch variation, it was present in releases of the game up until 1.4, where they took it out because it broke the updated version of the audio API they were using. IMO DOOM’s sounds work much better with the variation, with all the monster screams and things that happen all at once.

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6 hours ago, FreakZoneGames said:

The sound pitches thing so interesting. DOOM was always intended to have sound pitch variation, it was present in releases of the game up until 1.4, where they took it out because it broke the updated version of the audio API they were using. IMO DOOM’s sounds work much better with the variation, with all the monster screams and things that happen all at once.

 

Randomized pitches was an interesting feature which I like as well, but it got lost after both Radek and id half-assed some code updates which broke it.

 

But Doom was not meant to have randomized sounds, actually. I asked Romero about this back in January and he described it as being "mostly experimental" at the time it was implemented, and the sounds effects were not designed with the feature in mind. He himself didn't like it either.

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Interesting. For me it adds a lot to the feel of the carnage when the cacophony of screams and roars has some variety to it. I usually enable it when using source exports on PC too.

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I don't mind the sfx pitches, but imho the aspect correction is important.
It's noticeable for things like Cacodemons, instead of being round they are squished.

image.png.1cc6095101ecc5e6a48d74ede62c99ff.png

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It's an interesting one, that. Because even back in the day different versions of the game used different scaling. As you've shown there, Cacodemons are more circular with the 1:1.2 pixel ratio of the original DOS release when stretched to 4:3, and more squat with 1:1 square pixels. DOOM 95 (the Windows version of DOOM which came out a couple of years later) had multiple resolution options, the more commonly used would be 640x480 which lead to the result of the 'squat cacodemon' on the left there, and some of the console ports did that too, as did early source ports like Doom Legacy, so a lot of us are used to that version too.

In fact, I could also put forward a few arguments for the 1:1 pixel art ratio. For example, Soulspheres:

f16239015a50b8a9381ce6a87af324378e396b99_00.jpg.10856ae11cabd2127cffb77158305557.jpgf16239015a50b8a9381ce6a87af324378e396b99_00.jpg.60267db56056c46f45f974f2fe2786e3.jpg

 

It's not circular in 4:3. Maybe it's not supposed to be circular? Well, I think that'd be a bit odd since it is called a Soul SPHERE, not a Soul Ellipse. Same with other things I assume are supposed to be even circles, like the BFG blast, invisibility sphere etc.

On the other hand you have stuff like the Mancubus' weapons as its arms move. With 1:1 pixels, the gun appears shorter when vertical and longer when horizontal, whilst in 1:1.2 they remain the same.

So I've always said it's 'swings and roundabouts', both aspect ratios are perfectly valid IMO, and really it was quite common in the DOS era since the 320x200 resolution saved a lot of resources by skipping those 40 lines, and while some art was drawn with it in mind, some things weren't (for example the soul sphere here), and we just sort of accepted that was how games looked at the time.

Ideally, I'd want the whole game reframed for widescreen while retaining the original ratio, like most source ports do, but my personal preference between either 4:3 with letterboxing, and the 16:10 we got with the much less prominent letterboxing, is the latter, just because I find it much more immersive when it takes up a lot more of my TV. That being said though, this is the maximum wideness I'd be happy with, going from 4:3 to 16:10 or vice versa is not hugely noticeable (again, we used to see it all the time with games that supported both 320x200 and 320x240), but going from 4:3 to 16:9 is well over the threshold and would look very squashed.

I mean obviously I understand why some people are annoyed by it, and an option would be nice. Personally I'm enjoying having DOOM fill most of my big TV and the aspect ratio issues have never been a problem to me since the game never really could decide on one in the first place.

 

 

On another note, I wonder what they mean by "Performance improvements"? I don't recall the game having any performance issues, it appears to always run at the 35fps lock, unless they're intending to program in a 60fps mode like the source ports do. That would be nice but I'm not going to hold out for that.

Edited by FreakZoneGames

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I always assumed the soulsphere thing was more or less the artist drawing on top of a circle made with the circle tool. Playing around with Deluxe Paint 2 briefly, it doesn't apply aspect ratio correction in the 320x200 mode when drawing circles. Actually, the circle I drew had the exact same pixel shape as the soul sphere...

G6nKBsq.png

 

Why didn't they compensate for it? I dunno, it might have been more work to do so they didn't find worth it. They clearly knew about the problem since their photosourced material compensated for it.

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Like SaladBadger mentioned, proof that they did know about it is that the physical models match the 4:3 versions:

image.png.5fc7d1047dc16d64acf1c5c2e104998a.png

 

But the soulsphere is indeed an interesting one. I guess doing pixel art by hand makes it more troublesome to aspect-correct, most likely they corrected all the drawing scans and photos when they scaled them down, but when doing pixel art from scratch maybe they did not care so much about it.

Also if the alternative is a narrower screen with more letterboxing then you've got a point.

 

It would be interesting if they did spend the effort to make a sort of remastered version where they make the graphics consistent across the board (and since we are talking remaster... having things like 16 rotations would be pretty awesome :P ..though unlikely to happen).

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Yeah. I’ve no delusions that 4:3 isn’t the “correct” aspect ratio, but stuff like this makes me not really mind when the game is presented in 16:10, with the added benefit of a nice, big, TV-filling picture. If it had been stretched all the way to 16:9 I’d have been annoyed, though.

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