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DustFalcon85

Doom 64 coming to PC and modern consoles?

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30 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

That and really it should be moved to DB2/DBX/GZDBBF.

Doom 64 has a different map format, and it needs a different map format because, at the very least, it needs to handle the five colored lights per sector and there's no way to shoehorn this much information into the old Doom format.

 

Based on that, the ball is in the camp of the editors. SLADE 3 has unfinished, partial support for Doom 64 maps but that's the only generic editor who even went that far. DB2's not gonna be updated anymore, for DBX and GZDBBF you run into the problem that DB64 already exists.

 

The best case scenario is that the rerelease results in a newfound interest to map for Doom 64's official port, leading to enough demand that third-party programs get updated. But until it's actually released, we won't see anything move on this front. Notably it'll be important to have specs -- most likely it'll be based on Doom64 EX and therefore compatible with what was created for it, but that's not an absolute guarantee.

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1 hour ago, Gez said:

Doom 64 has a different map format, and it needs a different map format because, at the very least, it needs to handle the five colored lights per sector and there's no way to shoehorn this much information into the old Doom format.

 

Based on that, the ball is in the camp of the editors. SLADE 3 has unfinished, partial support for Doom 64 maps but that's the only generic editor who even went that far. DB2's not gonna be updated anymore, for DBX and GZDBBF you run into the problem that DB64 already exists.

 

The best case scenario is that the rerelease results in a newfound interest to map for Doom 64's official port, leading to enough demand that third-party programs get updated. But until it's actually released, we won't see anything move on this front. Notably it'll be important to have specs -- most likely it'll be based on Doom64 EX and therefore compatible with what was created for it, but that's not an absolute guarantee.

By that, I meant more like chuck the old DB1-based version of Doom Builder 64, and re-base it in one of those more modern codebases. I know it's got its own map format, flags, etc.

 

Sticking to the old DB1-based DB64 would be a very bad idea. More users now will be more familiar with DB2 and its derivatives than DB1, and DB1 also has a very nasty bug where the 3D view slows to a crawl the longer the system has been running. DB64, as a result of being derived from that codebase, shares that bug.

 

This is bad news for people like me, who just rebooted his PC for the first time in over six weeks.

Edited by Dark Pulse

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9 hours ago, Gez said:

The best case scenario is that the rerelease results in a newfound interest to map for Doom 64's official port, leading to enough demand that third-party programs get updated. But until it's actually released, we won't see anything move on this front. Notably it'll be important to have specs -- most likely it'll be based on Doom64 EX and therefore compatible with what was created for it, but that's not an absolute guarantee. 

 

Actually, the only realistic chance I see for Doom64 modding is to have a port that can play the game and offer UDMF as a map format, so that more specialized tools are not needed anymore. AFAIK the original game didn't even have any concept of texture names, it was all indices, just like Build had, because in such a storage constrained environment as the N64, every bit counted.

 

So, if the port this is going to use supports the original unaltered game data it will be somewhat problematic to support by more generic tools. IIRC even Doom64 EX required conversion of the IWAD to avoid the direct handling of all that stuff. If that is needed for a third party code, going all the way to UDMF makes more sense anyway.

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A new Doom 64 announcement trailer has showed itself. It has mentioned a few things we already know, like it is coming out March 20th of 2020 to all platforms (and thus delayed). Looks like all the blood is green now? Perhaps this is just a temporary thing to add green blood to hell knights. I am not sure if this has been mentioned in the 200 comments already, but still no evidence for Aubrey Hodges' classic soundtrack being there.

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38 minutes ago, Gerardo194 said:

I wonder what will happen...

 

Me too.

 

Still hyped, and I still hope blood color along with other regional things are changeable. The original EX did plan on implementing something like this, so I have hopes the official re-release will allow changing them.

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It might just be a trailer thing, the Turok EX trailer had censored blood as well despite the actual game having regular blood enabled by default.

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3 hours ago, Immorpher said:

Looks like all the blood is green now? Perhaps this is just a temporary thing to add green blood to hell knights.

The blood colour is an option to switch between red and the green blood from the Japanese ROM. There, that's a freebie, please stop jumping to weird conclusions. It's not "censored", it's not some thing to change blood to enemy types. It's just region options. 

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4 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

The blood colour is an option to switch between red and the green blood from the Japanese ROM. There, that's a freebie, please stop jumping to weird conclusions. It's not "censored", it's not some thing to change blood to enemy types. It's just region options. 

 

I win :D .

 

Spoiler

I told ya it'll be an option.

 

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2 hours ago, Tarvis said:

It might just be a trailer thing, the Turok EX trailer had censored blood as well despite the actual game having regular blood enabled by default.

It's still bad to show everyone the censored setting as your official presentation, because what percentage of people are going to see it and get turned away? They don't censor other Doom trailers, why is this one censored?

 

2 hours ago, Edward850 said:

The blood colour is an option to switch between red and the green blood from the Japanese ROM. There, that's a freebie, please stop jumping to weird conclusions. It's not "censored", it's not some thing to change blood to enemy types. It's just region options. 

Well what do you expect if it's not stated outright? What are we left to believe given we know about the Japanese version having green blood?

 

All it would take to calm the waters is put a statement at the end of the trailer "BLOOD COLOR IS AN OPTION. GREEN BLOOD USED FOR DEMONSTRATION PURPOSES."

 

Telling us things like this prevents conclusion jumping.

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20 minutes ago, Nevander said:

It's still bad to show everyone the censored setting as your official presentation, because what percentage of people are going to see it and get turned away? They don't censor other Doom trailers, why is this one censored?

The videos were originally made for Nintendo Direct, which has certain expectations for presentation as it's made for a general all ages audience.

20 minutes ago, Nevander said:

Well what do you expect if it's not stated outright? What are we left to believe given we know about the Japanese version having green blood?

It's Doom, why would they ever need to change the blood colour? The game is already rated M13/15. Also maybe you should watch the trailer:

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20 minutes ago, Nevander said:

All it would take to calm the waters is put a statement at the end of the trailer "BLOOD COLOR IS AN OPTION. GREEN BLOOD USED FOR DEMONSTRATION PURPOSES."

Because it wasn't changed for demonstration purposes. It's an ingame option, one originally not necessary to explain because it was a short series of clips made for Nintendo Direct, not an actual complete announcement of the game. In fact all your conclusions were originally made from a leaked video not meant to be shown at the time. This is the first complete announcement video which in fact shows red blood as shown above.

 

Edited by Edward850

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4 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

The videos were originally made for Nintendo Direct, which has certain expectations for presentation as it's made for a general all ages audience.

Why is a general all ages audience watching a trailer for Doom 64? What do they expect? Just give us the rating and warnings and show it. Is the world going to explode if we see some red blood in a 1997 FPS?

 

6 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

It's Doom, why would theever need to change the blood colour? The game is already rated M13/15. Also maybe you should watch the trailer:

I don't know. Because stupid censorship rules? Because they don't want to offend someone who shouldn't even be caring about it? Because it's Nintendo? Because of anything really. Big or small people find ways to ruin things. Look at Doom and Doom 2 re-releases. They butchered the Wolfenstein levels and changed the health packs. If they would do that they would do something else. I don't care what the reasoning is.

 

I did watch the trailer. But the majority is green blood and it goes by very fast. It's deceiving. They show 95% green blood, 5% red. The parts with red are purposely cut shorter, which gives the impression it's all green blood. Add on the fact there's no mention of both settings in the trailer, and somebody had to ask a dev on Twitter to get an answer. That's red flags to me as a user.

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I'll just leave you with this @Nevander, I am in fact incredibly hurt and insulted that you would think we would ever miss something as blatant as the blood colour of Doom64. You have showed very little respect for this project ever since it was announced, and the fact that you think that Kaiser, Quasar and I wouldn't even get something as simple as the blood colour right shows you in truth hold a very low opinion of us and our work, least of all Kaisers which your own project expectly relied upon for his work, of all people. I'm frankly not sure what to think of you from this point on.

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35 minutes ago, Nevander said:

They don't censor other Doom trailers, why is this one censored?

I'm fairly certain the Doom Eternal teasers have the splatter turned down as well for promotional purposes.

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3 hours ago, Edward850 said:

The blood colour is an option to switch between red and the green blood from the Japanese ROM. There, that's a freebie, please stop jumping to weird conclusions. It's not "censored", it's not some thing to change blood to enemy types. It's just region options. 


I was just pointing out that the blood was green and suggested it was for the hell knights. Could have been a weird conclusion in some people's perspective, but I wasn't suggesting anything about censorship. Perhaps you quoted me but were thinking about someone else?

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4 minutes ago, Immorpher said:

Perhaps you quoted me but were thinking about someone else?

I indeed was, was referencing Nevander's earlier gaf. Sorry for the confusion.

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56 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

I'll just leave you with this @Nevander, I am in fact incredibly hurt and insulted that you would think we would ever miss something as blatant as the blood colour of Doom64. You have showed very little respect for this project ever since it was announced, and the fact that you think that Kaiser, Quasar and I wouldn't even get something as simple as the blood colour right shows you in truth hold a very low opinion of us and our work, least of all Kaisers which your own project expectly relied upon for his work, of all people. I'm frankly not sure what to think of you from this point on.

I never said anyone missed it, I just don't think the presentation was done correctly for a re-release of a game of this magnitude. Drawing conclusions is not fact. Even the music in the trailer wasn't Doom 64 music. It's just... off. It's an odd choice.

 

For the record, I am pleased to hear the blood color is an option. That's good. But I really think something like this needs to be put out there ahead of time to avoid things like this from happening. I can't really help it that the negatives like to creep up first.

 

I also never directly criticized anyone involved in the project. I loved Doom 64 EX since I first used it (there's weird mouse issues I have but this is beside the point). You guys do great work to bring a game like this back officially, but little things like this really irk me. In today's world I can't be certain of anything that gets released, what the quality will be or how certain things are done. Showing me green blood wasn't what I wanted to see. Now that I know there's an option, it's ok now, but I don't agree with the way it was presented for longtime fans of the game. You gotta level with me a little on that.

 

I don't know what else I can say about this.

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18 hours ago, Nevander said:

I never said anyone missed it, I just don't think the presentation was done correctly for a re-release of a game of this magnitude. Drawing conclusions is not fact. Even the music in the trailer wasn't Doom 64 music. It's just... off. It's an odd choice.

 

For the record, I am pleased to hear the blood color is an option. That's good. But I really think something like this needs to be put out there ahead of time to avoid things like this from happening. I can't really help it that the negatives like to creep up first.

 

I also never directly criticized anyone involved in the project. I loved Doom 64 EX since I first used it (there's weird mouse issues I have but this is beside the point). You guys do great work to bring a game like this back officially, but little things like this really irk me. In today's world I can't be certain of anything that gets released, what the quality will be or how certain things are done. Showing me green blood wasn't what I wanted to see. Now that I know there's an option, it's ok now, but I don't agree with the way it was presented for longtime fans of the game. You gotta level with me a little on that.

 

I don't know what else I can say about this.

Trailers rarely show all sorts of graphic violence, even if the game is graphically violent. Case in point: MadWorld.

 

I get your worry, but it'd be good to seek facts first before jumping to conclusions, yes?

Edited by Dark Pulse

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I'm really hoping Doom 64 would be released on GOG for PC seeing that we have the other Doom games (besides 2016, Eternal, and OG Doom 3) over there.

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On 10/22/2019 at 8:57 AM, Immorpher said:

I am not sure if this has been mentioned in the 200 comments already, but still no evidence for Aubrey Hodges' classic soundtrack being there.

 

Not sure what they'd use in place of it. Doom 64 wouldn't be Doom 64 without Aubrey Hodges' dark, ambient soundtrack.

 

Still fuckin' PSYCHED about this. I honestly never thought we'd see Doom 64 getting an official PC port.

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11 hours ago, Caffeine Freak said:

 

Not sure what they'd use in place of it. Doom 64 wouldn't be Doom 64 without Aubrey Hodges' dark, ambient soundtrack.

 

Still fuckin' PSYCHED about this. I honestly never thought we'd see Doom 64 getting an official PC port.


Not sure what kinda contract Aubrey Hodges had (since they can vary like Bobby Prince had an unique one for Duke Nukem 3D), but Aubrey Hodges has been a good sport in offering sounds and resources to the community. I think it is a very high probability that his soundtrack will be on the re-release, since he would be happy to have his music heard by a potentially-newer audience.

I enjoyed Doom 2016 so much that I will probably be pre-ordering Doom Eternal and getting Doom 64 with it. I found Doom 2016 a good game to play on the couch with a controller on a console. But now that it comes with Doom 64, I am thinking of getting it on PC to have another good PC port of Doom 64. I am tempted to have Doom 64 portable on the Switch as well, but switch port of Doom Eternal will be the weakest of all the platforms.

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On mercredi 23 octobre 2019 at 12:03 AM, Nevander said:

Why is a general all ages audience watching a trailer for Doom 64?

Because trailers are advertising, not the product itself.

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3 hours ago, Gez said:

Because trailers are advertising, not the product itself.

And continuing from that: Advertising is supposed to represent the end product accurately. We as consumers expect truth in advertising.

 

Now, since it's been confirmed the blood color is an option, it does represent the end product accurately (sans the music being from the wrong Doom).

 

So what's the problem here? Doom 64 is a special case. Anyone who wonders why the blood was green is going to end up seeing or finding that green blood was in the censored Japanese ROM.

 

People like me who (1) knew this already and (2) expected to see fully red blood and (3) had no knowledge it was an option or that EX intended to have it means I drew this conclusion. It's not hard to understand why someone in my unique position would think this.

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20 minutes ago, Nevander said:

And continuing from that: Advertising is supposed to represent the end product accurately. We as consumers expect truth in advertising. 

lol if you really believe that. There are many reasons to keep trailers age-unrestricted, such as (for example) showing them off during conventions or other events where there's no age restriction on the event. If some company like Nintendo believes showing the "green blood" option during trailers will help make them friendlier to the general public so that it can be shown along other, different things without causing anyone to become upset, then it's what they'll do.

 

Anyway how is showing the game with one of its options on "untruthful" or "inaccurate"? Should I be complaining that they removed the Resurrector because I didn't see the fight with that monster in this trailer?

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On 10/22/2019 at 3:03 PM, Nevander said:

They show 95% green blood, 5% red. The parts with red are purposely cut shorter, which gives the impression it's all green blood. Add on the fact there's no mention of both settings in the trailer, and somebody had to ask a dev on Twitter to get an answer. That's red flags to me as a user.

 

So you're admitting that your complaint about green blood is baseless but you're doubling down on complaining about it anyway?

 

1 hour ago, Nevander said:

Now, since it's been confirmed the blood color is an option, it does represent the end product accurately (sans the music being from the wrong Doom).

 

So what's the problem here?

 

I don't know, you tell me?

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56 minutes ago, Gez said:

Anyway how is showing the game with one of its options on "untruthful" or "inaccurate"? Should I be complaining that they removed the Resurrector because I didn't see the fight with that monster in this trailer?

You're missing the point of this. It's established that green blood = censored Japanese version of the original cart. Plus, I didn't know it was an option until a dev had to tweet it out. But both versions have the Resurrector.

 

27 minutes ago, Linguica said:

So you're admitting that your complaint about green blood is baseless

It wasn't baseless. I don't know how many times I have to explain why I drew the conclusion I did.

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The fact the switch port is delayed 4 months just so it doesn't pre-empt eternity's preorder incentives is the real scandal here 

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It is kinda baseless though, what I previously said seems to get ignored - I have explained multiple times that since the official re-release is likely based on the original Doom 64 EX, and there was a plan to add the option to switch between the different regional settings/colors of blood, there was very little doubt that it would be anything but a toggleable option.

 

The fact that we were going to get nothing but an inferior, censored version of the game was baseless.

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6 minutes ago, seed said:

the official re-release is likely based on the original Doom 64 EX

It's not. It's being entirely rebased on KEX3. KEX1 isn't console-friendly at all.

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