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DustFalcon85

Doom 64 coming to PC and modern consoles?

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6 hours ago, Jon said:

I think the Nintendo SDK is incompatible with the GPL which rules out most ports. 

 

Yup, 100% correct. Wouldn't work on any console, GPL or LGPL. I would've absolutely loved to base the console ports off of something like Chocolate or Crispy Doom, but that just can't happen. Console SDKs are confidential, and can't be released in any form.

 

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I think it's a unity wrapper around the doom 64 bfg edition classic engine (which had been adapted to split screen etc). I suspect plugging unity into the Nintendo SDK was an easy path.

 

Also basically correct! I wrote up a little explainer for my personal portfolio: https://d8d.org/professional/ We're basically using Unity kind of like SDL, except Unity helps handle a lot of stuff you need to pass console cert that homebrew doesn't need to worry about, like handling Joy-Cons correctly, user profile management, touch controls with feedback. Not having to build our own 2D UI, or trying and bolt all of it onto the Doom engine is another advantage. All of that, plus the ability to ship on 5 platforms simultaneously would've taken significant amounts of time if we had to develop all the cross-platform hooks ourselves. The D3 BFG Classic Doom is the Doom used in the original XBox, and the 360/PS3 ports and is on GitHub. The "Doom as a shared library" part of it is new to this port, and isn't open unfortunately. I think it's a cool model to be able to run an unlimited amount of instances of Doom at once that way.

 

It's a bit weird that a lot of the conversation around it has turned into "Doom ported to Unity" it's not like we rewrote the whole Doom engine to use ECS and C#. That Doom core can be pulled out and you could call it's functions from Python if you wanted to, but that wouldn't mean Doom was ported to Python.

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6 hours ago, sponge said:

Yup, 100% correct. Wouldn't work on any console, GPL or LGPL. I would've absolutely loved to base the console ports off of something like Chocolate or Crispy Doom, but that just can't happen. Console SDKs are confidential, and can't be released in any form.

I don't think this is a real barrier.

 

The same can be said of the Steam SDK -- it is GPL-incompatible. Strife: VE works with it by having a little shim driver that can talk to the SDK library without needing to break any licenses.

 

And really, do you think Nintendo would REALLY object to something like Strife: Veteran Edition just because of a pre-existing software license? Any hypothetical port could shove the Switch-specific bits off to the side.

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50 minutes ago, chungy said:

Strife: VE

Strife: VE has special permission granted for its use on Steam and GOG, and thus does not qualify as an example in this scenario.

 

50 minutes ago, chungy said:

And really, do you think Nintendo would REALLY object to something like Strife: Veteran Edition just because of a pre-existing software license? Any hypothetical port could shove the Switch-specific bits off to the side.

It's not Nintendo that would be the key issue here, though they would be if you in turn tried to open source their SDK. GPL seems to be a very fickle thing to use on consoles due to the nature of the console integration and its various certification requirements. We generally try to avoid it ourselves, it's not worth the hassle, even if you could legally stretch it. That's ignoring striking head-first into the Tivoization clause in GPL3, of course, which basically would outright shitcan any idea from the start.

Edited by Edward850

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The way Wyrmsun workarounds Steam SDK integration for its GPL engine is by having what's essentially a launcher, there isn't even any dynamic linking gluing together the GPL game and the proprietary launcher (I don't think the GPL would even allow that, it would have to be LGPL).

But I expect that this might not be an option for consoles.

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4 hours ago, chungy said:

I don't think this is a real barrier.

 

The same can be said of the Steam SDK -- it is GPL-incompatible. Strife: VE works with it by having a little shim driver that can talk to the SDK library without needing to break any licenses.

 

Is the Steam SDK under an NDA? The issue with GPL-and-Nintendo-SDK isn't from the GPL side, it's from the NDA side. Exposing the API by publishing the source is the breach.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Jon said:

 

Is the Steam SDK under an NDA?

 

Sort of, sort of not. I really don't get the situation around it. The API is pretty much public knowledge but when you get licensed to use it, it still comes with all the boilerplate language you'd expect for an NDA. It's kind of dumb.

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18 hours ago, Gez said:

The problem is that "and" has a sequential value.

 

For example, if I say "you can get in your car and drive to your job", it makes sense, the actions come one after the other. If I mix it up and say "you can drive to your job and get in your car" then it gets weird. Perhaps you drove to your job, left your car there, and came here with the company car, and I'm telling you to drive the company car back to your workplace and get in your own car?

 

On the other hand, if I say "you can get Doom64 EX and buy the Doom 64 re-release", then I could order it the other way around because the two things do not depend on each other. You can do one, or the other, or both, in any order.

Oh wow are we really gonna have this conversation? LOL

Yeah it's an old phrase and it's not worded as clearly as it could be. But it works. It doesn't say "And then", it just says "and" You're talking as if it says "And then"....Aaaand let's get back on topic cause this is silly :P

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My concern with Doom 64 on the Switch is that are there problems with Doom Eternal for the Switch which would lead that game to being released on the Switch later than the PC, PS4, and XB1 versions?

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6 hours ago, Jalapen0 said:

My concern with Doom 64 on the Switch is that are there problems with Doom Eternal for the Switch which would lead that game to being released on the Switch later than the PC, PS4, and XB1 versions?

The answer is "Who knows," but since they've gotten their feet wet porting Doom 2016, I'd imagine they've got a fairly good grip on the Switch hardware by now.

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On 9/6/2019 at 11:29 AM, Jalapen0 said:

My concern with Doom 64 on the Switch is that are there problems with Doom Eternal for the Switch which would lead that game to being released on the Switch later than the PC, PS4, and XB1 versions?


Im sure Panic Botton it's the one making Doom Eternal for Switch, as they made the Doom and Wolf ports.

 

This port will be doing by NDS. Different People, different studios, so im sure will not affect the Switch Release if Panic Botton can do their work without problems.

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