Doom & Doom 2 on the Switch - 1st Impressions

[Stale Meat]

On 7/27/2019 at 6:22 AM, Armaetus said:

Sounds like zero modding capabilities too..They would be dumb to not allow some sort of user mods to be used..

Honestly I am glad there has been no attempts to try and integrate custom content into these ports, if only because I want Bethesda to not even have the slightest chance to use Doom as a platform to try another iteration of Paid Mods.

[ketmar]

eh, even the very old and glitchy k8vavoom switch port was better. they could at least hire the guy who did that port. lol.

 

but then, i don't expect anything good from bethesda anyway: if there is even a small chance to get into some shithole, bethesda will not miss it.

[Doomkid]

I’m just stunned that they ignore the opportunity: a decades-old community centred around one of they franchises they’ve gobbled up, complete with hundreds if not thousands of capable programmers who would have done it 99x better at the same cost, or perhaps even cheaper. They’ve had ample opportunities and quite a few crap ports come out in the last decade-ish and never once have they considered contracting one of the local Doom gurus.. not even for advice, let alone an actual temporary job or something.

 

I’m glad Romero and the other “old id” guys at least acknowledge our existence and even consult us from time to time. It seems we may as well not exist in the eyes of our new-ish corporate overlords. How shit. At least Doom 4 was good and Eternal looks good I guess. I will continue to not support them financially, the only product of theirs I’ve ever purchased was Doom 4 and it’s going to stay that way. 

[xvertigox]

I imagine Nintendo would be very against custom content due to perceived security issues that could lead to homebrew. I'm hopeful that the port will be improved in time, I really want online multiplayer.. They need to fix that bethesda.net shit ASAP because if people can't play this without being connected to the internet it's totally fucked.

[Graf Zahl]

5 minutes ago, xvertigox said:

I really want online multiplayer.. They need to fix that bethesda.net shit ASAP because if people can't play this without being connected to the internet it's totally fucked. 

 

Here's where money comes in. Writing and testing some functional netcode is a lot more work than getting that old game running on a modern platform.

And this entire release screams "cheap" all over the place. I wouldn't expect much here - Doom's main problem with internet-based multiplayer has always been that the game never properly implemented a client/server architecture which makes multiplayer a rather volatile affair.

 

[xvertigox]

@Graf Zahl Yeah, I've heard from a few people that implementing netcode, let alone good netcode, is a pain in the butt with Doom. Switch online multiplayer is a pipe dream, I'll be happy with engine fixes. I'd like it if engine quirks like wallrunning were added too but I can't imagine they'll do that either.

[ketmar]

yeah. they didn't even tried to get some help from source port devs (afaik) for the actual port. i don't believe that bethesda will ask those devs to write a netcode for them. and without deep knoweldge of the engine, adding c/s code to the original doom is... nope. nowai.

 

and i don't even want to think about original p2p code running over internet connection. no. it won't be playable.

[Fonze]

32 minutes ago, xvertigox said:

I imagine Nintendo would be very against custom content due to perceived security issues that could lead to homebrew. I'm hopeful that the port will be improved in time, I really want online multiplayer.. They need to fix that bethesda.net shit ASAP because if people can't play this without being connected to the internet it's totally fucked.

 

That stance has me worried on whether-or-not this will ever have pwad support... if not that means that any dm's will be on highly unfortunate iwad maps. However, from what I hear Odamex now has support for Nintendo switch, so some of these types of questions may be answered by that.

 

As a general question: if this runs in the unity engine, wouldn't that necessarily mean that the netcode couldn't be handled the same way at all as it is in vanilla, or oda/zand if client/server? Like nothing about this should be 'demo compatible,' which is the entire basis for how net games work in doom anyway, so wouldn't this necessarily need its own, new code to make this work? At which point it would seem that p2p netcode would be as much of a hassle to implement as client/server.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Fonze

[ketmar]

i believe that they did 1:1 port, so the simulation is still completely deterministic. and rolling p2p networking shouldn't be that hard. but c/s networking will require a major engine rewrite (and, considering that they hardly have people with enough sacred engine knowledge, will almost inevitably break the compatibility).

 

and i won't even start talking about the time and efforts required for such rewrite.

[EANB]

Nerve Software is responsible for this port, who also did the 360 version. Oddly, the Nerve expansion is not included, the Master Levels are included instead. 

 

[ketmar]

27 minutes ago, EANB said:

Nerve Software is responsible for this port

so we can conclude that thay can make good maps, but not good software. sigh

[boris]

6 hours ago, Fonze said:

 

That stance has me worried on whether-or-not this will ever have pwad support...

 

I'd say this is never ever going to happen. You're not even allowed to save/restore your savegames to external media - likely out of fear of opening attack vectors (on the Wii there was at least one way to use a modified savegame to exploit a bug in Zelda Twilight Princess to install homebrew).

[deepthaw]

On 7/28/2019 at 4:06 AM, seed said:

 

 I beg to differ here tbh. Sure, stuff like the slowed down music could be an exception, but no way other issues that plague those ports are not indicative of laziness and rushing just get them out of the door. After all, they also come with:

 

•  Broken lightning.
• Muffled sounds (I see no one else is mentioning this, so could this be only my perception due to the pitch-shifting?).
• No aspect ratio correction.
•  "Trial version" marking on the bottom right corner on Switch.

 

Can't help but wonder if the surprise launch was a surprise even to the developers. Wouldn't put it past Bethesda.

[Fonze]

1 hour ago, boris said:

I'd say this is never ever going to happen. You're not even allowed to save/restore your savegames to external media - likely out of fear of opening attack vectors (on the Wii there was at least one way to use a modified savegame to exploit a bug in Zelda Twilight Princess to install homebrew).

 

That just raises more questions... has anybody here with a Switch tried Odamex out for it? According to this site cross-platform has been reported to be working for either the current version or the previous one: (not sure which)

 

https://gbatemp.net/threads/odamex-a-classic-doom-multiplayer-port-for-nintendo-switch.543412/

 

I realize not code and pwad support are not the same thing and all but given the program and effort to port, plus a short bullet point listing 'no fancy gzdoom stuff' as a feature, (heh, but also to call out specifically gzdoom or advanced format wads seems redundant if no pwads can be loaded) it's hard to imagine that oda wouldn't have that capability. They have to have found some workaround though as they cant distribute the iwad with oda.

[boris]

1 hour ago, Fonze said:

 

That just raises more questions... has anybody here with a Switch tried Odamex out for it? According to this site cross-platform has been reported to be working for either the current version or the previous one: (not sure which)

 

https://gbatemp.net/threads/odamex-a-classic-doom-multiplayer-port-for-nintendo-switch.543412/

 

I realize not code and pwad support are not the same thing and all but given the program and effort to port, plus a short bullet point listing 'no fancy gzdoom stuff' as a feature, (heh, but also to call out specifically gzdoom or advanced format wads seems redundant if no pwads can be loaded) it's hard to imagine that oda wouldn't have that capability. They have to have found some workaround though as they cant distribute the iwad with oda.

To run Odamex on Switch you need a hacked Switch with homebrew support in the first place, so the official restrictions do not apply. Of course it'd be technically able to load PWADs in an official port if they'd allow it.

[zen4040]

I've been talking shit about consoles for a while on these forums but seriously, every laptop can run doom.

And if you can afford a switch than you probably allready have a pc or a laptop lying arround. It takes very little space and doesn't effect the system at all. The only reason I imagine why you wouldn't just play the pc version would be if you're trying to introduce the game to your children and for some reason don't want them to have their own pc yet.

[Fonze]

^ Being able to play on the go is nice, especially in this modern age of mobile gaming and instagratification, which is one of the strongest points of delta touch, for example. Also, I've personally started to notice that I have more fun playing (at least dm's) on mobile, and the addition of mp to mobile has also made me enjoy the medium more. 

 

5 hours ago, boris said:

To run Odamex on Switch you need a hacked Switch with homebrew support in the first place, so the official restrictions do not apply. Of course it'd be technically able to load PWADs in an official port if they'd allow it.

 

Ah I didnt understand before that oda was only a homebrew thing, thank you for the explanation. What a shame; I was considering buying a switch after hearing about oda having support for it.

[Jalapen0]

Purchased Doom 1-3 this morning and will play after I get home from work.  Also had some money left on my PSN account and purchased 1 & 2 for the PS4.  I'm not planning on getting 3 for the PS4 because I think playing 3 with the Switch and lights turned out with headphones would be more effective in scaring me.

 

This was a very nice surprise from Bethesda.  It's going to be awesome to have Doom Eternal on the PS4 Pro unless I manage to upgrade my GPU before launch since I'm not sure my GTX 1050 will meet the minimum requirements.

[Master O]

On 7/29/2019 at 1:40 AM, Doomkid said:

I’m just stunned that they ignore the opportunity: a decades-old community centred around one of they franchises they’ve gobbled up, complete with hundreds if not thousands of capable programmers who would have done it 99x better at the same cost, or perhaps even cheaper. They’ve had ample opportunities and quite a few crap ports come out in the last decade-ish and never once have they considered contracting one of the local Doom gurus.. not even for advice, let alone an actual temporary job or something.

 

I’m glad Romero and the other “old id” guys at least acknowledge our existence and even consult us from time to time. It seems we may as well not exist in the eyes of our new-ish corporate overlords. How shit. At least Doom 4 was good and Eternal looks good I guess. I will continue to not support them financially, the only product of theirs I’ve ever purchased was Doom 4 and it’s going to stay that way. 

 

Bethesda is a huge, faceless corporation.  What did you expect?  It's all about the benjamins for them. Nothing more.  

[Gunstar Green]

I can respect that they want to make a few bucks with the anticipation of the new game but it's a shame there's no effort here. For most of us there's no reason to want to mess with this. I know I won't be.

 

I'm still looking forward to Doom Eternal, but the new Wolfenstein was pretty disappointing (different dev team I know) so I'm a little concerned.

[NoCaloriePepsi]

Overall I think this is just a cheaply done, fly-by-night cash grab, done so that Bethesda can squeeze a few more bucks outta the Doom IP with ports of the classics + Doom 3. These new ports are just too barebones, they dont offer anything new. Bethesda had the potential to make new exclusive levels for these ports like what they did with the BFG Edition ports with Nerve and NRFTL. But knowing how shoddily assembled things were made that'd probably be a disaster.

 

Kinda sad how the old X360 versions of Doom 1 and 2 still blow these out of the water. Well unless they decide to actually fix them up and make them proper complete ports.