Is Final Doom Canon???

[DoomedSpartan]

Hey guys So throughout the Doom series there was this odd title which bugged me a lot into how it fits in the classic Doom Series.And that is Final Doom It’s has hugged plot holes IDk if it’s the same marine from Previous games and the Fucking Demon Spaceship that arrived in TNT it’s a mess plot hole since no back story is given about it.So tell me what do you guys know about it??????

[DoomedSpartan]

I’ve even gone as far as to think it’s the same marine from Doom 3

[MFG38]

I always saw Final Doom as sort of a spin-off.

[MrFlibble]

I believe it is implied that the protagonist in Final Doom is the same character as the original Doomguy, but I may be wrong. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference though?

[seed]

Yeah, I also see the protagonist of FD as the original Doomguy.

 

FD is canon in my book frankly.

[Maximum Matt]

I don't know if it's cannon - it's certainly chaingun tho 

[seed]

5 minutes ago, Maximum Matt said:

I don't know if it's cannon - it's certainly chaingun tho 

 

This made my day.

[Mortrixs19]

I always thought they were canon at some point. Plutonia seems to take place after Doom II, the manual says that the UAC was now working with weapons or prototypes to defend earth from another demonic invasion. I'm not sure about TNT, so I believe it takes place after plutonia and before Doom 64. Just my opinion

Edited July 30, 2019 by Mortrixs19

[fraggle]

FYI:

 

Cannon: an artillery weapon that launches a projectile

Canon: when something is officially accepted as part of the story of a fictional universe

[ReaperAA]

Officially speaking, Final Doom is canon. However, it being canon does not add much to the lore. It is entirely up to u if u want to believe it as canon or not.

 

Personally I don't consider FD canonical in my head canon. In my eyes, it is just two megawads that got commercialized.

[D88M3R]

No, and i never understood why people put TNT and Plutonia along with Doom 1 and 2 as if they were sequels or something.

[Spladam]

1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

Officially speaking, Final Doom is canon. However, it being canon does not add much to the lore. It is entirely up to u if u want to believe it as canon or not.

 

Personally I don't consider FD canonical in my head canon. In my eyes, it is just two megawads that got commercialized.

Just wondering, how do we know if it's "official"?

 

You're right though, Doom lore is something we make in our own imagination, and not on accident. It certainly would have been a different animal if Tom Hall had managed to included the story elements and cut scenes from the Doom Bible, and why I'm glad Carmack insisted on keeping it light on the story. Tom leaving kind of worked out for all of our benefit anyways. 

In my mind it always went Ultimate Doom > Doom II > Doom 64. 

[Bauul]

I kind of like the idea half hinted at in Doom 2016 that Doomguy has spent thousands of years traveling across dimensions killing demons wherever he finds them.  As by that logic, Final Doom, and for that matter every wad ever made, is all canonical!  Problem solved!

[Deadwing]

AFAIK, the story between Doom and Doom II doesn't even connect.

[MrFlibble]

Well, here's what the id Software website had to say on the matter back in 1996:

Quote

Doom II: Hell on Earth, the record-breaking sequel to Doom, has sold over 1.5 million copies worldwide. This time there's a new scenario, more realistic 3-D graphics, spine-chilling new sound effects, a pulse-pounding musical score, nearly twice as many death-wielding demons, more levels and a powerful new weapon. The ever addictive and frighteningly realistic world of Doom is back. It's bloodier. And it's deadlier than ever.

 

Situation Analysis:

After days of fighting in space, you've returned to Earth only to find the situation is no better than it was on Mars. In fact, it's worse. The hell-spawned hordes are everywhere. Billions are dead. The few remaining survivors have planned to travel into space and save what's left of the human race. Unfortunately, the Earth's only transport has been taken over by flesh-eating mutants. You have to go back in action. Otherwise, humanity is history. [source]

 

Quote

This is it. The end. The end of the undead marines, the acid-drenched hallways and the hell-spawned hordes. The final chapter in the legendary Doom series. This is Final Doom. It's two new 32-level episodes complete with new stories (The Plutonia Experiment & Evilution), new frightening realistic graphics and new pulse-pounding music. It's time to finish what you started. Final Doom. End of story. [source]

 

The wording of Final Doom's description is extremely circumspect but it clearly implies that a) this is the official continuation, and ending, of the story and b) that the player character is the same ("It's time to finish what you started").

[DoomedSpartan]

3 hours ago, Deadwing said:

AFAIK, the story between Doom and Doom II doesn't even connect.

It actually does but with Plot holes on how exactly he got to Earth.That was Sigils is for.But Final Doom Is way far.1st on Jupiter then Earth like is it even the same marine.And What about the Demon ship where the hell did that come from

[Solmyr]

1 hour ago, DoomedSpartan said:

It actually does but with Plot holes on how exactly he got to Earth.

What plothole? When doomguy killed the Mastermind, hell gave up, opened a portal and sent him to Earth because he was too much, it's mentioned in the text screen at the end of episode 3 Inferno. Episode 4 alledgedly takes place on Earth, but the only earth like level is a secret level, E4M9 Fear.

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, DoomedSpartan said:

And What about the Demon ship where the hell did that come from

IIRC once the demons realized they couldn't force their way trough Io's portal because they couldn't overwhelm the marine platoon guarding it, hell opened a portal in space near Io and invaded the moon from the oustide with that ship. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Solmyr

[Maximum Matt]

15 hours ago, fraggle said:

FYI:

 

Cannon: an artillery weapon that launches a projectile

Canon: when something is officially accepted as part of the story of a fictional universe

Chaingun: what chaingunners use; hitscanny 

[SchwTrdLeenW]

I came to the conclusion that Doomguy is some sort of celestial being that travels around a nonspecific number of parallel universes whithout rhyme or reason.
Edit.:
 

Quote

I kind of like the idea half hinted at in Doom 2016 that Doomguy has spent thousands of years traveling across dimensions...

...oh. I haven't even played Doom 2016.
That makes me think if you could put some 4th wall breaking stuff into newer games about thousands of modders and players condemning him to be some sort of reluctant divine guardian without giving him a break.

Edited July 31, 2019 by SchwTrdLeenW

[Maximum Matt]

And if Maximum Doom is in any way canon, then that's one serious purgatory he's got

[MrFlibble]

The truth of course is that, plot or not, both Master Levels and Final Doom were intended to be expansion level packs to satisfy the players' hunger for more Doom action in a time when it wasn't as easy to download tons of user maps off the Internets as it is now. Whether these expansions added to the lore of the game or contributed to a consistent storyline was of secondary priority, in particular considering that the plot wasn't that important for Doom (as per John Carmack's own words).

There's also a certain level of "flexibility" to Doom's characters and settings. I mean, if you want to you can easily imagine for any PWAD you're playing that the face you see on the HUD is a completely different square-jawed space marine and not the main character of the first Doom game. In fact, some PWADs explicitly state that, including the Lost Episodes of Doom. Similarly, depending on a map author's intentions, the monsters may be reinterpreted as mutants or aliens, or whatever you like. At any rate, the Doomguy is supposed to be the player (or vice versa), simple as that.

 

The canonicity problem could have arisen if there was a sequel, a direct continuation of Doom II or Final Doom that would somehow contradict the events or storylines of these games. But since the subsequent titles were reboots this was never a problem. Also again, the plot and setting of Doom is such that you can basically fit as many more levels and episodes let's say between Doom and Doom II as you'd like. The Ultimate Doom's fourth episode is a simple proof of concept for that, and Sigil fits there just as perfectly (oh, BTW I love it how John Romero adds these cool lore snippets like "glitched teleporters", "Hell cracks" and other stuff). Also don't forget No Rest for the Living, I've no idea where it gets put in, story wise.

[Quasar]

35 minutes ago, MrFlibble said:

Also don't forget No Rest for the Living, I've no idea where it gets put in, story wise.

As per Brandon James, it immediately follows Doom II, and is part of the "cleanup" phase of reclaiming Earth from the demons.

[Gunstar Green]

I don't think id cared much about the plot and how it all worked together after Tom Hall left so neither do I.

 

It's all just, "Oh no demon's again?! Shoot the demons!" to me. And that's fine.

[Borax Man]

I view it as a kind of addon pack, or a mission pack, not as part of the Doom story arc.

 

[ChicagoTrash]

I thought that they were mostly just challenge maps. They have a story that seems to fit the rest if the games so... maybe?

[LadyVader1138]

They don't contradict the prior games or Doom 64, so I say they are.

[Spectre01]

More canon than E4! Don't even get me started on those rabbit memes.

[LadyVader1138]

14 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

More canon than E4! Don't even get me started on those rabbit memes.

You talking smack about Daisy?

[Unitron]

On 8/1/2019 at 10:33 PM, Spectre01 said:

More canon than E4! 

 

Yeah, E4 does bring some inconsistencies, though I've never really put much thought into the Doom story-line as it's all about the game unless talking about the canned Doom Bible.

 

Either way though, Final Doom fits in fine with the other games in my mind.

[BrassKnight]

I always believed TNT and Plutonia are alternate universes and Maximum Doom is a compilation where every timeline and universe that exists in Doom (excluding TNT and Plutonia) and those that have been created by the mappers (some WADs that are in the compilation have their own stories and things in them) have all been merged into one big messy universe for some reason. The texture misalignments and placements and the weird and nonsensical structures are all the result of this merging.

 

Anyways, I don't think Final Doom is canon to the official classic Doom games.