*2020 HAKAWARDS* I'm Also Looking to Play and Record Your Maps 2 *CLOSED*

[HAK3180]

Table of Contents

 

 

51 minutes ago, FrancisT18 said:

I'd think Enceladus might work better with E4M7 moved to E4M9, add a BFG, and move E4M9 to a regular level & take out the BFG. An abnormally giant level as the secret level would probably work comparably well to making it a standalone release, especially since the current E4M9 seems perfectly fitting as a regular level other than having the BFG at the end.

No need to add a BFG to this, as there are several, but yeah, that would work quite well.

 

 

So yes, whoever's interested, Part 2 of Enceladus E4M7 has arrived in the same post as part 1.

Edited December 16, 2020 by HAK3180

[Snaxalotl]

I just made my second map if your interested! Requires gzdoom. No crouching or jumping, freelook is optional.

 

Requires dynamic lights

 

Note: I noticed you mentioned you prefer oldschool, so incase you really dislike dynamic lights I don't mind if you skip over this wad.

 

 

Difficulty is kinda high, partially due to health being scarce

 

It'll probably take you between 20-30 minutes including deaths. And just incase (the yellow key switch is in between the red and blue ones)

 

Hope you enjoy!

[nicolas monti]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:06 AM, HAK3180 said:

@nicolas monti

 

The first thing I would say is this has no business in this wad. Obviously, the style is the same, but the length is such an outlier that this one map just takes over the set. This is much more forgivable in a 27 or 32 or 36-map set, but as it is, this one map has almost 40% of the wad’s monsters with only one more to play. It completely overshadows the brilliance of all the other modest-length maps. I definitely think this works better as a standalone.

 

But as for the map itself, it’s as intelligent as you would expect. We must praise Nic here for at least always showing you what switches are doing and a very heady design in general with an unbelievable amount of signature Monti jumps that really do make traversing this thing entertaining. Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time lost, either not knowing what to do next or not knowing how to get where I knew I needed to go. Frustration set in when this involved damaging floors. I don’t recall getting a single suit in this map, yet there were numerous times I had to travel across damaging floor without boats. The critical path involves getting three keys in any order and then going to the triple-locked door. But those key paths are multi-faceted, involving hitting switches and then re-entering areas. Add to that a massive sandbox of optional content, and I rarely knew whether I was on a key path or a secret hunt or a weapon pickup path. This is a map that must feel great to play when you know what you’re doing, but I just didn’t. That also made a lot of the combat annoying to me. I just wanted to figure out what to do, rather than shoot monsters, especially when I couldn’t see where they were shooting me from, which is an issue I have with most of the episode, honestly. One day I’d like to do an easy or no monsters run of this map just to see if I can make more sense of the progression.

 

Bottom line: a very full map that I didn’t really enjoy but cannot say much bad about

 

Thanks for completing it! This helped me a lot to improve the map, I'm already working on it.

As I said earlier, more shorcuts after doing some step in a switch sequence to avoid repeating sections and also no more dead end frustrations because I'm tweaking some stuff.

I'll also add some custom textures to mark which key a path leads to! That sounds bad level design but in a map of this size it's difficult to see all the routes on screen.

I'm totally aware of the dispropotion of the map compared to the others in the episode. Not a magnum opus syndrome or the like but I wanted instead to take to the extreme the concept of a big penultimate map in an episode, I don't isually make maps this big nor enjoy making them, maybe a present to a few people like @skepticist who reclaimed to do big exploratory maps like I did in my early days.

All in all the changes will make the map less frustrating and I'm sure it would take you half of the time in a blind playthrough.

Also the map was inspired in Venice!

 

EDIT: the map is updated in the same link.

Edited December 17, 2020 by nicolas monti

[Soulless]

Hey @HAK3180, just finished my last map, Otex texures this time.

Please let me know if you see anything strange "technically" this time around.

All info in the thread below, Have fun!

 

 

[HAK3180]

^{(I'm having upload issues with either my computer or my service provider. Several days ago we're suddenly at turtle speed. Speedtests are as optimistic as 7 Mbps, but that's a load of crap. Other tests and actual observance indicate < 2 Mbps. I have always gotten 10 easily, probably 20+. I uploaded something early in the week - 19 GB and it took under 3 hours.} 

 

^{That's probably more information than you really need, but the bottom line, to coin a phrase, is that I am going to be behind on getting you your footage, especially if your map is long. I will continue to play and record maps, so I expect to be able to catch up suddenly at some point, but for now, I am officially unable to post videos.)}

 

EDIT: Upload speeds are back, hopefully for good, but I never did figure out what the issue was.

 

 

@thelamp

 

Media Fire download page

 

I like how these maps don’t try to conform. They have their own identity, and atmosphere is a big part of it. Map 01 appears to be entirely cinematic. Map 02 was my least favorite – repetitive and I didn’t find the commando traps very interesting. Map 03 had a really fun final room, but the progression is not all that clear.

 

Bottom line: A little outside the box, but does need some polish

Edited December 23, 2020 by HAK3180

[thelamp]

@HAK3180 Thanks for playing! Lots of great advice for how to improve. You were correct that I am going for more of a cinematic feel, which can sometimes get in the way of the gameplay i.e. that big room in map02 (which I've now changed almost entirely, as well as the commando trap). That being said, although I am focussing on atmosphere there's no reason the combat can't be fun as well as cinematic. I've also changed quite a bit in map03 after watching and I look forward to seeing what you have to say about the rest! Too bad to hear about your connection letting you down-- I'll go with option #1, whenever you can get to to it

updated wad with changes to map02 and 03: https://www.mediafire.com/file/w9vesdyczakah32/skulltek_v3-2.wad/file
 

edit: all levels are balanced for pistol start, although playing continuous won't change the difficulty much

Edited December 19, 2020 by thelamp : forgot to mention pistol starts

[The BMFG]

Ive Made a Series of joke wads called the hunt for soda the first map is a little bit bad since i had took a break from doing map making but the other maps start gradually improving its made for gzdoom and gzdoom only i made sure you can still pistol start them though i had huge improvements im map making in map05 i started marking doors and it gets way harder in map 05 throught the whole wad you also have to collect health bonuses wich have been replaced by soda sprites you must collect all the soda for me to think it is 100% done there is also a sneaky secret in map 06 so watch out for that heres the link to the thread of the latest version       i am planning on making this a full megawad i have released the newest version today wich is the one ive linked im still working on this wad! it has 10 maps

 

[Austinado]

Hello friend, a little request for you when you get time to do so. 

Merry Xmas ;)

 

 

[nicolas monti]

Last map for Enceladus!

E4M8, this time a mid sized map, any limit removing port.

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/jrebqnfsv1h5qqs/ENCELA49.wad/file

[HAK3180]

@Clippy

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

You realize fairly early in this map why it’s called what it’s called. It’s a pretty cool idea: you make your way to the exit, only to come all the way back to the beginning. You do that a few times, the map steadily changing all along. The final run had too much for my liking. At that point I was low on ammo, had been playing quite a while, and just wanted the exit to be accessible. In theory I like the concept of continually being sidetracked, but that’s often all I knew: that I was being sidetracked, not what the sidetrack actually was. So the map is pretty linear, and a number of times when what had been the path was no longer viable, I simply did not know what to do. I only came away with six secrets. I regular warn about the dangers of secret balancing, and I think this may be a good negative example. It appeared that most of the secrets contained supplies. If that’s the case, you simply cannot put 25 in an hour-long conventional-ish map. First of all, it devalues them and makes them into a chore. Secondly, it’s a balancing nightmare if almost every secret amounts to free goodies. What do you balance for then? 0% secrets. 100% secrets? Those extremes are night and day different. If getting them all is still a challenge in the slightest, then getting none is bound to be close to impossible. So I guess the common theme of long maps lately is that they ain’t as bad as how little I enjoyed them. I think this could be a lot better with some more attention to balance / I would have enjoyed it more with a lot more secrets. Visually, Clippy clearly just isn’t that concerned. It seems scatterbrained, to be honest. Some areas are much more polished than others, but every area feels like a different map. For gameplay, you don’t get that choppy sense at all, but visually, it’s all over. I’m firmly in the gameplay > visual camp, but if Clippy does not improve in this regard, I’m afraid he may never get the attention some of his creative ideas deserve.

 

Bottom line: good idea but too long for me and ammo imbalance just wore me down

[Kam Tovalski]

I wanted to make an entire episode before giving it here to test, but I think I can give missing two maps separately.

I gently ask you to take a look at my first project for Ultimate Doom.
This is meant to be played like vanilla wads, so no crouch, jumps or freelook (last thing isn't mandatory).
Tested mainly in GZDoom (some parts were tested in Crispy Doom as well (although it has an issue with custom sky), but work more with GZ)
You can play all level continously, but I like more pistol-start runs - it's up to you.
Difficulty variety provided (except for SS-Levels - UV only there), so wanna some Ultra-Violence

 

P.S.: I already realised Crispy sucks with E4M9, so GZ only this time :I

If I missed some info to share, an original thread should complete it:

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by TOVA

[HAK3180]

@Snaxalotl

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

It’s a pretty nice-looking map, and not just because of OTEX, but the mapper shows some skill in texturing. Detail is there but not overdone and does not get in the way. There’s a lot to do in this map, and although the general layout is quite basic, there’s enough combat variety not to dwell on the lack of interesting progression that also has no prescribed order. Snaxalotl wondered if this map is too flat. I didn’t really notice that in a negative way, which would indicate that the gameplay was dynamic enough without lots of height changes. One thing to keep in mind visually would be that little changes can do a lot of aesthetic work. Dividing a large flat room into 3 smaller sections, each 8 or 16 units higher than the next, will hardly affect gameplay, if at all, but it might be quite noticeable from a visual standpoint.

 

Bottom line: competent texturing and battle sequences

 

[Snaxalotl]

33 minutes ago, HAK3180 said:

Bottom line: competent texturing and battle sequences

 

I definitely agree about the yellow switch, which I've made more noticeable. Additionally I'm touching up some visuals to prevent monotexturing, but I'm glad the encounters worked out well. Thanks for playing!

[Clippy]

@HAK3180 thank you so much for playing There and Back again!

 

I have a lot of notes but didn't take notes so let's see if I remember it all

 

Sorry about the length and scope of this map, if I'm being honest even I hate long maps like this but as I kept building I never was able to reign myself in .... I might have went too far in a few places haha

 

I'm making a new map and aiming for a 20 min playtime and want to spend more time on it and make it look half decent. I don't know if I will ever be able to get a handle on what textures to use. I know how I want things to function and how I want to use monsters, maps to be built and etc but when it comes to putting up wallpaper ... I don't have the mental whatever it is I need to understand how to do this properly. I wish I could build the maps and outsource the texturing LOL. Wanna be my texture guy?

 

So I did test this without secrets and was able to beat it, however I have the lay of the land advantage. The majority of secrets are 2-3 cell charges, I starved the player of cells and only handed out a few freely, the rest are in secrets. 

 

6:23 that blue light decoration thingy ... yeah that confused ppl, not my intention. It's for game related inner working purposes. So I wanted the raising platform switch to raise to lowest ceiling repeatedly and line up with the stairs, to do this I needed a lower ceiling thingy and decorated it. Hope that makes sense, but yeah it's the only reason it's there

 

Man a lot of weird thigs happened in your run. This map has so many monster combos and possibilities even I don't know them all and I discovered them in your vid

 

For example remember the Archville in the big room fight when you press the red key switch to go outside? (you probably don't remember because this is a week ago and you play a lot of maps) well he got all mad at that Cybderdmon so you left him, then went outside forever! The Archvile stayed mad at the cybdermon and that whole time resurrected so many demons, way more then you ever should have encountered so this drained your ammo big time. I never considered this situation happening, gotta kill those archviles on sight bro

 

Let's see you left the archie alive here - 43:45 and here is that same dude right here   52:46 - so this scene went waaaaay off script lol

 

Oh yeah you are awesome at getting up close and personal with the cybers, I am trying to improve that in my own play

 

57:26 - damn everyone got confused with this progression. I added the blue bars that lift up and show the path but I guess this didn't help. I even drew a directional indicator in the map and am not sure how to make this clear. What could I do? Besides scraping the switch/bars entirely but I'm too stubborn to do that :P   

 /   wth my enter key stopped working I'm not even joking how can I make new lines now??   Aw the rest of this post is going to be awkward.  OK my arrow keys aren't working either, real nice and this is a new keyboard too :(

 

Oh wait here it goes

 

1:00:45 - I did test this map extensively, which is why I thought there was sufficient ammo even with no secrets, however I never seen this event happen lol he made it all the way up those stairs, from outside and through the bars! Never considered that. 

 

58:20 - damn..... you went back on this ledge after the 4 exit archviles were let out. This is a major tactical advantage to clear a path to the exit at the end. Later a cybderdmon teleports in the exit area, you could go back outside & to this ledge again and fight him easier maybe

 

I love your video thanks so much, sorry it got long and I don't blame you for rushing to the finish line. Good times -  your vids are great and you always have the best insight - I feel like just watching you play my map is making me better by learning :)

 

Ok I hope I remembered most of my thoughts 

 

Merry Clipmas!

[HAK3180]

@thelamp

 

Media Fire download page

 

Map 04 was fairly simple in design. The texturing was not very attractive, but lighting makes up for it somewhat. A theme of this wad, and one that I dislike strongly, is withholding weapons, so right from the beginning I’m pretty much always in annoyed, let’s just access the exit mode. If I am given space + no ammo, I turn into a poorman’s speedrunner.

 

Map 05 is huge and confusing. I had no idea what to do right at the beginning, and then I was immediately in a huge arena with cyberdemons and imps and a pistol. The only clear progression in this map is that you’re not supposed to do what I did. If you are, that’s really boring Doom. I was too annoyed by the length, absence of weapons, and lack of direction to come close to finishing this.

[HAK3180]

@Soulless

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

The OTEX is actually a strike against it, in my book. Soulless always did a nice job with vanilla texturing, and this map looks okay, but seems to rely more on the textures themselves than on geometry and architecture. It’s probably a much more efficient way to look almost as good, but I thoroughly enjoyed Soulless’s stock texture visuals. But the way you make your way through this map is just fun. The way it changes on you and the way it always seamlessly connects you to the next part of the adventure show foresight and expertise. There are lots of traps and reveals, but they seem organic and give the whole flow a good pace – a good mix of incidental and more choreographed action. There’s probably no real highlight or focal point, so one might say it lacks the vicissitudes that a Doom map needs, but I just enjoyed seeing what would be next.

 

Bottom line: a sizable map of fun progression and somewhat varied combat

[HAK3180]

@The BMFG

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

Making maps is fun, isn’t it? The quantity is encouraging. What’s discouraging is the lack of map skill development. The only progression is that of difficulty, but it’s not a maturity; it’s just a simplistic use of more and tougher monsters. The gameplay gimmick of health bonuses looking different is not nearly enough to excuse the low quality visuals, layouts, and enemy encounters. So I would advise forgetting about all the bells and whistles of advanced formats and concentrating on improving in one aspect per map or per editing session. Take a look at your favorite wads or iwads to see what level shapes and progressions make for fun gameplay. Then another time make a concerted effort to improve combat flow; almost this whole wad is thick doorway fighting. Remember that literally anyone can make a really hard map – that’s not a feat, but can you make a challenging map that is fun to play and rewarding to conquer? Can you make an easy map that’s still engaging and doesn’t feel insulting? Then spend some time taking in the sights that make a map good to look at and try to emulate that detail. Stuff like that.

[Clippy]

Oh @HAK3180 I didn't know you liked Soda maps, wanna check out my 5 min soda map tribute map? In Canada we call it pop!

 

 

[HAK3180]

51 minutes ago, Clippy said:

In Canada we call it pop!

 

In addition to accent and word-specific pronunciation, there are several dialectical words or phrases that will betray an American's origin. In addition to soda/pop/coke, there are things like firefly/lightning bub, drinking fountain/water fountain, roundabout/traffic circle, etc.

[HAK3180]

@Austinado

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

This map surprised me. Austinado is usually pretty linear, but this map was almost entirely optional, it seemed. Lots of weapons to get in any order all came with a price, but the critical path itself only put you right next to a shotgun, chaingun, and BFG, I believe. For a three-day map, it’s pretty big, although definitely a bit empty in places, and not very well detailed, but the function is not bad. No fights took too long or were too boring, except maybe the cacodemon swarm. My impression was that a very subtle switch that I thought was going to be a secret was actually necessary, but I could be mistaken on that.

 

Bottom line: A pretty involved map that, despite its obvious simplicity in several regards, manages to maintain interest

[HAK3180]

@nicolas monti

 

I think all sorts of final maps can be good. Monti opted for a conventional map with a somewhat modest boss ending, not unlike Unto the Cruel. The map itself only begins to suggest finality toward its own end; it’s a standard, good Monti map until then. I enjoyed the boss fight. It’s somewhat original and classic. But come on, man – way too many HP. Way, way, way too many HP. Did I miss the easier disposal method?

 

Bottom line: Good map whose ending goes on too long

[wrkq]

On 12/21/2020 at 8:32 PM, Clippy said:

57:26 - damn everyone got confused with this progression. I added the blue bars that lift up and show the path but I guess this didn't help. I even drew a directional indicator in the map and am not sure how to make this clear. What could I do? Besides scraping the switch/bars entirely but I'm too stubborn to do that :P   

 

Maybe change the blue square pillars into blue arrow-shaped pillars?

[Clippy]

3 minutes ago, wrkq said:

 

Maybe change the blue square pillars into blue arrow-shaped pillars?

 

Good idea but I hate to hold the player's hand this hard, but given the majority of players seem to get stuck here I might have to go with it :)

 

Thanks buddy, I already modified this segment so many times haha

[Horus]

I’ve not watched the vid or played the map so I can’t comment on if it fits here but I generally find health/armor bonuses a much more organic way to signal progression than arrows. Most players get sucked in by the things :P

[KeaganDunn]

Alright, thought I'd throw in a couple maps of my choice from First Blood, my first WAD consisting of 14 maps.

 

If you're okay with playing a select number of maps from it, you can do MAP01, MAP09, and/or MAP13. 

MAP01 should take a couple minutes to beat, MAP09 is unique and will take around 10 minutes depending on your play, and MAP13, the big one, may take about 30-40 minutes for a typical non-max blind run.

 

Boom-compatible maps, but I do recommend GZDoom for the best intended experience - no freelook, no jumping or crouching.

 

Here's the link if you don't want to see the forum: https://doomshack.org/uploads/First Blood.zip

 

You also seem to use a different MIDI soundfont or whatever...so the music in maps 09 and 13 might be questionable, I don't know.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Dunn & Dunn : midi

[Clippy]

3 hours ago, Horus said:

I’ve not watched the vid or played the map so I can’t comment on if it fits here but I generally find health/armor bonuses a much more organic way to signal progression than arrows. Most players get sucked in by the things :P

 

Agreed and thanks, however here is the section and the progression is added to a familiar area, meaning players would be able to pick the items before it could show them the way later :) 

 

Here is the place where people have gotten confused, originally it didn't have the blue hint pillars that go up & down

 

 

 

[nicolas monti]

12 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

@nicolas monti

 

I think all sorts of final maps can be good. Monti opted for a conventional map with a somewhat modest boss ending, not unlike Unto the Cruel. The map itself only begins to suggest finality toward its own end; it’s a standard, good Monti map until then. I enjoyed the boss fight. It’s somewhat original and classic. But come on, man – way too many HP. Way, way, way too many HP. Did I miss the easier disposal method?

 

Bottom line: Good map whose ending goes on too long

 

Thanks as always, I'll watch it again when I got home, I barely could because I'm at work.

 

A couple of points:

1) I'll tweak the RK room trap because it was a bit lame.

2) I'm surprised you were out of ammo fighting the spider because I obviously tested it. You have one BGF shot guaranteed, you maybe missed the last 40 cells in the pillar room, but I'll see if I missed to put them there instead.

 

I agree on your conclusions, I also don't want the final grind so I'll add another cyber to help the player after the first one and if that doesn't help much I'll lower the spider HP, it's currently 24000 HP, 8 times the normal mastermind, the hitbox is smaller so it can walk through narrower spaces, it just fits the sprite size.

I also don't want it to stay much longer after everyone else is death so I'll make the necessary changes!

 

EDIT: yeah.. I think I forgot to put those 40 cells.

Edited December 23, 2020 by nicolas monti

[HAK3180]

@nicolas monti, I think testing out a 2nd cyber would be good. That would help to signal that the Mastermind is the main event. Another thing you could do is a timed drop. You like to do very tall pillars lowering, so you could do a few of those with lots of cells on them, so then it would be like, "If you can stay alive long enough, you will get to BFG her to death very quickly." Or HP decrease. Several potential options.

[nicolas monti]

58 minutes ago, HAK3180 said:

@nicolas monti, I think testing out a 2nd cyber would be good. That would help to signal that the Mastermind is the main event. Another thing you could do is a timed drop. You like to do very tall pillars lowering, so you could do a few of those with lots of cells on them, so then it would be like, "If you can stay alive long enough, you will get to BFG her to death very quickly." Or HP decrease. Several potential options.

 

The cyber serves for two purposes:

1) help for the player

2) being destroyed and letting the player know who's the boss this time.

 

2 cybers for the next version will make things more engaging.

[thelamp]

@HAK3180 Thanks for playing despite your frustration! Mea culpa. I can see I missed the mark thoroughly as far as telegraphing anything to the player on map05 and after seeing you play I've deleted all the monsters/keys and started reworking the progression entirely. I brightened up map04 a bit and I'm going to change the monster composition in the final room to differentiate it from the previous map. Much appreciated criticism!