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HAK3180

*2020 HAKAWARDS* I'm Also Looking to Play and Record Your Maps 2 *CLOSED*

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Hey @HAK3180

 

Thanks for playing my map, though I don't feel you gave it it's proper due. You seemed like you were just in a rush to get it over with, like it was a job obligation rather than to look around and attempt to play it properly. For example you rushed past the plasma gun which wasn't even a secret and complained that I hid it from you. Seemed like a rush job and I like to hide secrets and intend for ppl to give it a little more time.

 

Either way thanks for playing, if you do have free time next time and aren't in a rush I have this map as well :)

 

 

 

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Table of Contents

 

@Clippy, I'm not sure what you envision a "proper" playthrough would have looked like. I ended with 91% kills and over double your par time. You saw me "rush[ing] past the plasma gun." What I saw (after looking in the editor) is me hitting a fork and choosing wrong. Let me remind you that you made the map. Things that are obvious to you are not obvious to an FDA player. And this is not '95, nor are you Id. People are not going to play your map dozens and dozens of times, like they did Hangar and Entryway. There's a ton of Doom content. Any given person has a 50% chance of going left at that fork. Once you take the left path, you're never anywhere near the plasma gun again. Instead you get the last key, so your mind is on that. Moreover, I only had 40 cells (both of which were from a backpack, I believe) until I entered the exit room. There are only 120 additional cells. 80 are in the same secret, and 40 are in the last keyed room. This means the player has very little reason to believe there is a plasma gun in the map until they're at the very end. You could add some cells throughout the map to signal to the player that the weapon is there. You could put a cell charge or two on the descending stairs to lure the player down to the plasma gun. Or a few health/armor bonuses. As it is, the fork is pretty equal. There's no good reason to choose right first, but left ends up taking you far away from it. You could make the plasma gun visible early, just not accessible until later. You could put a second one somewhere. In any case, I think this map, as is, is going to be a grind any way you slice it. The map has at least 20 cacodemons. It takes ~50 rockets to kill 20 cacodemons, maybe 35-40 with splash damage if they're bunched up. There are 43 grand total rockets in the map. Alternatively, it takes almost 400 cells to kill 20 cacodemons with the plasma gun. Assuming no BFG, there are 200 cells in the entire map. Six barons. That's 25+ rockets with good splash damage. It's almost 300 cells with the plasma gun. So now I've used significantly more than all my big gun ammo on just two monster types, except that I haven't, because a lot of that is near the end, so in reality, I'm going to be asked to punch them or super shotgun them or search and search for a BFG, which has six shots absolute max, assuming I found all the secrets and the plasma gun but didn't use it on anything ever. Personally, I don't want to super shotgun meat in endless narrow spaces. But my opinion is my opinion. Attach to it as much or as little value as you want. 

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12 minutes ago, HAK3180 said:

Table of Contents

 

@Clippy, I'm not sure what you envision a "proper" playthrough would have looked like. I ended with 91% kills and over double your par time. You saw me "rush[ing] past the plasma gun." What I saw (after looking in the editor) is me hitting a fork and choosing wrong. Let me remind you that you made the map. Things that are obvious to you are not obvious to an FDA player. And this is not '95, nor are you Id. People are not going to play your map dozens and dozens of times, like they did Hangar and Entryway. There's a ton of Doom content. Any given person has a 50% chance of going left at that fork. Once you take the left path, you're never anywhere near the plasma gun again. Instead you get the last key, so your mind is on that. Moreover, I only had 40 cells (both of which were from a backpack, I believe) until I entered the exit room. There are only 120 additional cells. 80 are in the same secret, and 40 are in the last keyed room. This means the player has very little reason to believe there is a plasma gun in the map until they're at the very end. You could add some cells throughout the map to signal to the player that the weapon is there. You could put a cell charge or two on the descending stairs to lure the player down to the plasma gun. Or a few health/armor bonuses. As it is, the fork is pretty equal. There's no good reason to choose right first, but left ends up taking you far away from it. You could make the plasma gun visible early, just not accessible until later. You could put a second one somewhere. In any case, I think this map, as is, is going to be a grind any way you slice it. The map has at least 20 cacodemons. It takes ~50 rockets to kill 20 cacodemons, maybe 35-40 with splash damage if they're bunched up. There are 43 grand total rockets in the map. Alternatively, it takes almost 400 cells to kill 20 cacodemons with the plasma gun. Assuming no BFG, there are 200 cells in the entire map. Six barons. That's 25+ rockets with good splash damage. It's almost 300 cells with the plasma gun. So now I've used significantly more than all my big gun ammo on just two monster types, except that I haven't, because a lot of that is near the end, so in reality, I'm going to be asked to punch them or super shotgun them or search and search for a BFG, which has six shots absolute max, assuming I found all the secrets and the plasma gun but didn't use it on anything ever. Personally, I don't want to super shotgun meat in endless narrow spaces. But my opinion is my opinion. Attach to it as much or as little value as you want. 

 

No worries bud sorry if I offended you and I do appreciate your feedback. I've watched quite a few others play this map and nobody's missed the plasma gun. Also nobody's let the Barons pile up like that. 

 

Only provided this feedback because you describe the game as bad with the baron scene and you complained about there being no plasma gun. I was just trying to set the record straight that there is a plasma gun and it's easily available :)

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39 minutes ago, Clippy said:

I've watched quite a few others play this map and nobody's missed the plasma gun. Also nobody's let the Barons pile up like that.

 

When players do things you didn't anticipate, you have to decide whether that's okay. If they break the map, is it because it's broken or because they ignored the source port info and/or compatibility options? If they run out of ammo, is it because they didn't play well or because the map wasn't balanced well? If they get stuck, is that because the progression is too obscure or because they missed something obvious? If they find a speedrunning trick of some sort, is it kind of cool and hard enough to discover/execute that you leave it in there, or do you patch it up? If they breeze through a map you wanted to be a challenge, are they really good or is the map too easy? Consensus is valuable, but I would encourage you not to look at the numbers only. It's easy to demonstrate that a change should be made, even if it only affected one person. For example, if there's a little crack you can fall into and get softlocked, most players probably won't find that. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. I'm not saying this is that, but at the end of the day, the decision is yours.

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40 minutes ago, HAK3180 said:

 

When players do things you didn't anticipate, you have to decide whether that's okay. If they break the map, is it because it's broken or because they ignored the source port info and/or compatibility options? If they run out of ammo, is it because they didn't play well or because the map wasn't balanced well? If they get stuck, is that because the progression is too obscure or because they missed something obvious? If they find a speedrunning trick of some sort, is it kind of cool and hard enough to discover/execute that you leave it in there, or do you patch it up? If they breeze through a map you wanted to be a challenge, are they really good or is the map too easy? Consensus is valuable, but I would encourage you not to look at the numbers only. It's easy to demonstrate that a change should be made, even if it only affected one person. For example, if there's a little crack you can fall into and get softlocked, most players probably won't find that. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. I'm not saying this is that, but at the end of the day, the decision is yours.

 

 

Fantastic advice brother thank you very much. Everybody plays differently and it did feel like you played a little bit faster than usual. Personally I do like to play My maps a little slower and I'm really big into exploring and hiding things for people to explore. Different strokes for different folks eh

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@Arbys550

 

(outdated) Doomworld forum topic

 

Visually, it’s probably about where it needs to be. Lighting might be lacking just a bit, but I wouldn’t necessarily guess this map was once very bare and was “updated.” The gameplay is on the simple side, the combat being somewhat engaging but not exactly innovative or intriguing. I liked the idea of a slaughter-ish finale with mostly weak monsters, but it was definitely mild by comparison to other stuff we’ve seen in this wad.

 

Bottom line: a little bit tame, but pleasant appearance and fine gameplay

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1 hour ago, MarketAnarchy said:

Do you ever stream these?

 

Live? Nah. Don't even know how really. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have the bandwidth to either.

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Hey @HAK3180 Thanks for playing my map! 

For me when i work in a map my priority is ALWAYS the structure of the map as the first thing in mind. So is obvious the thing i am more meticolous about. I also think playing Samuel kaiser villareal has made a huge impact in my style haha.

 

I would like to play my map Tekloniton:

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/s-u/tekniton

This one is hard and big. I DON'T recommend playing on UV, even if you play it on HMP its still quite hard. 

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@BluePineapple72

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

This is a bit of a mixed bag, but my experience was mostly positive. There were some ammo issues early, some tight space issues and door combat issues, and an occasional general carelesseness for visual appeal, despite a strong architectural showing, flowing layout, and some attention to very fine detailing – if that makes sense. I thought the combat got better as it went for the most part, including a well-executed cyberdemon fight. I did think the map tried to do a little too much. The nazi area definitely seemed like a needless add-on, for example.

 

Bottom line: a warm welcome to mapping

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@nicolas monti

 

Well, these maps definitely have some old school…charm. Monti’s expertise is still on display, but so are some of the oddities that you would expect from a mapper with the newfound liberty of being able to mod Doom – how exciting! Well, that initial wave of excitement has worn off in the last quarter century, so part of me asks what the point is, but besides a frustrating ammo situation early and running out of time near the end, the basics of what I find decently interesting were intact.

 

Bottom line: Why not? I guess…

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2 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

@nicolas monti

 

Well, these maps definitely have some old school…charm. Monti’s expertise is still on display, but so are some of the oddities that you would expect from a mapper with the newfound liberty of being able to mod Doom – how exciting! Well, that initial wave of excitement has worn off in the last quarter century, so part of me asks what the point is, but besides a frustrating ammo situation early and running out of time near the end, the basics of what I find decently interesting were intact.

 

Bottom line: Why not? I guess…

 

Thanks for playing them, I'll add some extra shotgun in the green armor section if the player miss the first one that is in the first roon, it's "missable" tough because you have to use the lift.

I'm sorry you didn't find more secrets because one of the main things of the wad is it's easter eggs but I saw you where out of time.

I'll replace more sprites but as I release the maps because is a kind of work I'm not used to and demands a bit of time (it's grind) and also I'll replace sounds.

For it's official release it's not a bad idea to provide an extra file without the sprite/sound replacements for the players who just want the maps.

The theme is ridiculous and non sense and I'll try to add some "humor" with the sounds and item replacements too.

This is pure nostalgia, it's like when someone of us still in the 2020 opens an old wad in maximun doom, let's pretend it's a lost episode from that era.

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@HAK3180

 

(Copy pasted from my youtube comment)

 

Thank you very much for playing this! Your feedback has been duly noted! Many of the areas you’ve critiqued is some of my earlier work in the map, and my plan for those areas is that once everything else has been finished (Including a bigass fight at the tentacle starfish at the end) I’m going to go through and double polish every single room. The red key room and castle Wolfenstein are top priorities for me to fix once their time comes. Any tips on improving them? Especially in removing door combat?

 

(Expanding on my YouTube comment)

 

As for future content. The starfish thing seen in the end is going to be a big gore monument of some kind. It will be visible from each of the four hell areas previoulsy accessed in the level. There is also going to be what I call the 'hell path' where the teleporter by the red key will take the player into previous areas that have changed, essentially, they'll have to take a new path through older areas. Do you think that the inclusion of these two things will drag the map down, or add to it?

 

My thoughts are that if I fix earlier areas, the inclusion of these last two big zones will be like a last hurrah for the map.

 

Again, thanks for playing! I look forward to your playthough of the latter half of Pandemonium!

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1 minute ago, Zolgia108 said:

@nicolas monti

m8 i love the Reptile imps, but why can't you use green balls instead of the regular red ones? It would make much more sense! just my opinion ;P

 

Yep, this is wip so green balls or even forceballs still can happen as well as some tweaking for any cluncky sprites.

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47 minutes ago, nicolas monti said:

 

Yep, this is wip so green balls or even forceballs still can happen as well as some tweaking for any cluncky sprites.

 

if i recall correctly in realm667 there is a custom monster named snake imp which fires green acid balls, its stats are the same as the regular imp, maybe you can take the balls from there! check it out :)

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@Steve88

 

Doomworld forum topic (project)

 

Map 10: I thought the Id parts were too copy-pastey

Map 11: Nice visuals and subtle but legitimate allusions

Map 12: a more conventional reimagine with some originality, but it's hard to improve on the original

Map 13: I never had much love for the original. This map highlights my least favorite of it, but the one arch-vile section is cool.

Map 14: not much to look at, but a fine tidy little quasi-puzzle

Map 15: just a weird short map - speedmap aspect is quite noticeable here

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@Steve D (Much failure starts about 33:30. The "successful" run starts at 48:26.)

 

download the .wad

 

Overall the map feels a little too empty, but I liked how some of the areas were populated (quite densely) after your first visit. Overall it’s a good looking map and has some very intriguing secrets. I thought there may have been a bit too much plasma, but it’s fun to go cell crazy every now and then.

 

Bottom line: Doesn’t feel as long as it is.

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On 6/8/2020 at 12:38 PM, HAK3180 said:

Overall the map feels a little too empty, but I liked how some of the areas were populated (quite densely) after your first visit. Overall it’s a good looking map and has some very intriguing secrets. I thought there may have been a bit too much plasma, but it’s fun to go cell crazy every now and then.

 

Bottom line: Doesn’t feel as long as it is.

 

Thank you so much for playing this, @HAK3180! Glad you enjoyed it, but oh, so many errors on my part! :D I've already fixed most of them. 

 

One of the great things about playtesting is when players do things They're Not Supposed To Do. ;) I accept that some of my fights are cheesable owing to the size of spaces, but in the Plasma Gun fight you basically broke it when you shot across the side over lava and the floors did not descend. That ruins the whole structure of the set-up, so I decided to move the triggers to the PG side. I'll have to test it soon to make certain it's unbreakable now.

 

Activating the switch that lifts the Blue Armor path from the lava is another no-no, but it's my fault for allowing it to happen. I've so far made 2 adjustments. First, I raised the lava in that area to 20% damage. Second, I made it possible for players to exit that area if they go all the way in like you did, by adding a switch to that Gstone wall at the end/beginning. I may ultimately lower the lava back to 5%. Cheesing a fight or a secret can be fun in and of itself, because the player knows they got away with something, so it's not always a bad thing to leave exploits in there.

 

You played very well and I was beginning to despair because I wasn't collecting enough HAK3180 pelts, but then the Yellow Key Fight happened, and it was glorious! :) Here again, you played differently than I do because you went after the monsters up on the stairs and in the previous room instead of just fighting the Cybs and other riff-raff by the key. I was happy to see that enough meat was available to keep you in that area, though you probably could have grabbed the Yellow Key, bypassed the Cybs and other enemies down there, and blasted your way through to the exit. I'm sure some players will do that, and if they have fun with that strategy, it's all good. Really, this map is more about exploration/adventure/tension than the absolute quality of the action, though I think I served up enough of the latter.

 

I'm planning to keep the empty areas empty. One thing I've never been good at is suspense, because my maps tend to be all-out-war from beginning to end. Maybe I went a little overboard to correct that, but I'm happy with the result. It makes players think about what's coming. It's a more pacey map than I usually do, but that's okay.

 

And now for something completely different; ADP01ba

 

This is a very small map and it's intended as Map01 of Grinning Like An Undertaker, The Amiga Demo Party of Doom. That's quite a mouthful. ;D It's pretty easy and is intended to be that way, just a little something to get players acquainted with the ADP approach of small to medium-sized maps, generally hot starts, tracker music, and radical interconnectivity so that monsters can pursue you across the map. This one uses a mix of OTEX and CC4 textures, and for once, they're already baked in, so the map plays on Map01 and there's no need to load anything. Unfortunately, it currently will not load with any version of PrBoom or Risen3D. You can play it with PrBoom if you load cc4-tex.wad and OTEX1.0 -- in that order, otherwise the animated textures don't work --  but it will not display the green sky -- I recolored the E4 sky -- or the cc4 vines. Only G/ZDoom plays it correctly with all features, and it's the only one that loops the Amiga tracker music correctly, so I recommend GZDoom. Oddly enough, it will play with Crispy, but Crispy can't play tracker music and it won't display the green sky. So please use GZDoom.

 

Obviously, I'll need expert assistance to correct the problems with PrBoom and Risen3D, but I have plenty of time.

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@NaturalTvventy

 

Doomworld forum post

 

It’s cool to see what can be done with just a few sectors. This map does not use any of those on secrets, instead opting for a decently sized playable area. Most of the combat was swarmy incidental setpieces, if that makes sense. One particular moment had me fighting against dozens and dozens of barons and knights. Another had a horde of spiders. In both cases all that really made things interesting was a couple arch-viles. I did like free powerups that you had to choose when to use.

 

Bottom line: I haven’t played or made too many sector-limited maps, but I like the body here at least.

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@Clippy

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

The best part about this map is easily the progression. Making the lift go up little bit little and opening up the map so that you finally go where the beginning was foreshadowed – all that was well done. The map’s appearance is very bare. It’s boxy with little lighting and little architectural beauty. The combat very early is interesting when monsters can shoot at you that you probably can’t kill yet, but you do get some grind early, and I have to worry how the player who finds no secrets fares.

 

Bottom line: Not a lot to look at and too many secrets, but a clever and thematic progression

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@Zolgia108

 

10 – a moody, linear progression with fun fights and a cool tie-in toward the end

11 – scarce on ammo and mostly simplistic in its combat

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3 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

 

It’s cool to see what can be done with just a few sectors. This map does not use any of those on secrets, instead opting for a decently sized playable area. Most of the combat was swarmy incidental setpieces, if that makes sense. One particular moment had me fighting against dozens and dozens of barons and knights. Another had a horde of spiders. In both cases all that really made things interesting was a couple arch-viles. I did like free powerups that you had to choose when to use.

 

Bottom line: I haven’t played or made too many sector-limited maps, but I like the body here at least.

 

 

Every time I watch your vids it gives me a fresh perspective and I make changes to my maps. Thanks!

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Hi, heres my last map "Riphean Mountains". Replaces map 06 doom II.

Tested on Gzdoom.

Crouch and Jumping not allowed, Freelook highly recommended but I tested both ways and its fine.

I tried to put more attention to outdoor detail, as much as I could to improve my previous map, that also had outdoors but as you stated on your review they needed light changes for sure.

Hope you cant find any hole to get out of bounds, I already fixed a couple thanks to people feedback. Secret hunting encouraged for a better survival.

Download:

https://mega.nz/file/E0xHEBja#k6TrOdP-zqRwKXCL9xc4dwo3KSg5FtMD5LbqUku3Jso

 

Edited by Soulless

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@HAK3180 i am so sorry for map 11, i will fix many things there, it was a pain, i m sure map 12 will be more pleasant (maybe hahahaha). Yea i m going to add ammo and remove some silent teleporters and stuff like that, my brother had more or less the same issues. Thank you as usual for playing them...

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