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HAK3180

*2020 HAKAWARDS* I'm Also Looking to Play and Record Your Maps 2 *CLOSED*

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Hello, Walkerrr here

Once again, thanks for playing my maps, I feel like the wad improves quite a bit after level 6.

Most people have told me that they prefer hell-themed maps (from level 11 onwards).

If you want to continue playing the wad good news, level 9 changes a lot and level 10 is the "level - boss" of the Tech-Base theme

Thanks to Austinado's gameplays I corrected some errors, especially at level 10. So I would ask you if you want to continue using the following version of Going To Hell.

 

Download Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3u9qobjn9j4uhzy/GTH_TEST_14.wad?dl=0

 

It is worth mentioning that I finished creating level 14 and it is fully playable and in particular my favorite creation so far.

You can also optionally play the wad with freelook and without autoaim (recommended)

I hope you enjoy the rest of the wad, better things are coming (:

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Table of Contents

 

@Walkerrr

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

This was my favorite so far. The map itself is one of the most interesting and diverse. It is another intricate layout of tech base plus natural environment, as all these maps are, but this time the verticality of the landscape really factored into the gameplay. You had lots of turret monsters and fewer of the same combat setups we’ve seen for 8 straight 300-monster maps.

 

Bottom line: Some desperately needed variety was delivered

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@Mr Masker

 

download the .zip

 

Welcome to mapping. Everyone starts somewhere, and the fact that some first wads are long and detailed and awesome should not be a deterrent. We all learn at our own pace and we all have different amounts of time to dedicate. My encouragement is to study maps and then make short maps to focus on one or two concepts -  more so on combat and spatial flow than on strict visual detailing. And be sure to know how to do things. If you don’t know how to do something, load a map that does it in Doom Builder to figure it out. Or find a tutorial or ask in the editing subforum.

 

Bottom line: The first step has been taken

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@LVENdead

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

This was quite different from this mapper’s first map, and that’s okay. I think this was a bit of a learning experience with a new format and new textures. As a result, gameplay seems to have been less of a concern. I just felt that some of the monster setups were a little more thought out in that debut than here. These were all fine fights, but nothing was very distinct other than the half dozen spiders at the beginning that you kill gradually. Even the finale seemed to be little more than somewhat generic quasi-slaughter. That being said, this mapper’s first wad blew me away, so the bar was set very high. This is still well beyond what most do for a second map.

 

Bottom line: a good representation of Otex and visual beauty in general

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@HAK3180 hey man just wanted to say your commentary is fantastic as always. Not only do you vocalize your thoughts/mindset, you make a lot of effort to understand the mapper's thoughts/mindset, and you seem to be pretty accurate a lot of the time. I think you acutely picked up on the experimental nature of the map as far as my intent was concerned. My first map was kind of like "Let me try to recreate the idea of a Doom 2016 Snapmap I made and learn Doom Builder". This second map was more "Let me target a specific gameplay style and map progression". The first map I constrained myself to Boom because I didn't want to get overwhelmed, and some of my favorite WADS (Valiant, BTSX, etc) prove that the best maps in Doom's legacy still reside in older formats. This map I tried out UDMF specifically to explore sector lighting, and really for no other reason (though I found the experience to be vastly different). I also of course decided to play around in OTEX, because Eviternity is a visual feast and really shows off the merits of the pack, and because less worrying about textures means I can spend more time considering architecture (although this was obviously a foolish assumption to make because more textures = more options). One thing I hadn't considered was the Doom community's collective familiarity with the "tropes of Vanilla textures" vs the OTEX pack. Both you and @Austinado overlooked lifts based on the textures I used, which now seems like an easy element to take for granted that you would know when you discovered a lift. With Vanilla, you see SUPPORT3 on a wall and you're either humping it or looking for a switch nearby. Either way, I think you correctly "diagnosed" that I tried to do too much with this second outing : in fact, I'd say feature creep is probably one of my biggest flaws as a creator in general. 

 

30 minutes ago, HAK3180 said:

I just felt that some of the monster setups were a little more thought out in that debut than here. These were all fine fights, but nothing was very distinct other than the half dozen spiders at the beginning that you kill gradually.

 

I'm curious to know if you could unpack this a bit. If I'm being honest, I think I considered the monster setups substantially more than my first map; not just for each fight, but with considerations for the flow of the map as a whole, and how it contributed toward my greater intent with the map (to be something kind of like "Bushwacked" in Valiant). Like to use an example, the thought of using turrets didn't even occur to me until probably halfway through finishing my first map. I didn't really think much beyond "halls + doorways", and so a lot of the combat emerges from that mindset. Setpieces combined with resource-taxed exploration. This map I really wanted there to be a more consistent flow of fighting and being hunted by monsters, with some player goals being things like "I need to establish a foothold in this map and get some ammo". But on the other hand, I didn't mind if the player wanted to lure monsters/use infighting, or try to deal with fights in a less direct way - I just personally don't think that's the most efficient way to play the map. I tried to make sure turrets punished standing still, while pressure monsters like cacos would come hunt you if you tried to hide for too long, and "time limit" monsters like pain elementals or archies gave you incentive to come out of "safe" areas and try to fight the larger horde. Obviously I did not hit the mark with my intent, so what do you think would make these concepts more complete? What separates a Pain Elemental feeling "grindy" from putting effective pressure on the player? Another thing I noticed is that this map seems to feel a lot different if you quicksave vs if you were to try and pistol-start/no-save run it. What do you think about striking the balance so that both styles of play are enjoyable? Literally all my playtesting was done without quicksaving, so to me this map became about trying to practice your run until you could beat it. If you fuck up a fight and start over, then the pacing of health and ammo in the map is less detrimental than if you quicksave in a bad spot.

 

Either way, this post wasn't meant as a defense case for my map - I fully expected my second published map to have problems even as I worked to fix or tweak approaches I had for the fist map. I'm just glad I also got such through feedback. Thanks for giving it your attention and giving me your candid experience of it. 

 

 

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@LVENdead, maybe "thought out" wasn't the best verbiage. I thought there was perhaps a lack of identity to the bigger fights. They weren't ineffective as much as not all that memorable. It was like the equivalent of a 2010s tidy CC4 tech base - nothing to complain about at all but just doesn't stand out much. I thought the identity of this map came more from the visuals, to some extent the layout, and only one or two encounters. But really, not every map needs any sort of gimmickry to set it apart. Knee-Deep in the Dead, for example, is mostly similar gameplay for a whole episode, and people love it. But by comparison, and dependent on my memory, your first map just had a few more distinct setups. Perhaps that's just the "freedom" of first time mapping where you're less familiar with expectations and guidelines. In any case, not a major point of concern.

 

I don't think I thought the pain elemental use was bad here, but the short answer is "more legitimate threats." Three pain elementals in a medium room may be somewhat effective, but it's still grindy. Two pain elementals and one baron in a room seems like two different threats, but if the room is big enough, the baron is neutered anyway, so it's still grindy, again even if somewhat effective. Pain elemental at the back of a narrow room with revenants perched on the sides is interesting because you have multiple legitimate threats. And even if you opt to take out the revenants first, that's a much more forgivable grind/cleanup at the end because the pain elemental was a significant factor at some point. This is important because you can't make it so that no hell knight is ever a 3-super shotgun blast dance. The context determines how grindy the grind is. Another thing I've said a lot in videos is "Doom is about forcing Doomguy into hard decisions." There may or may not be a right answer, but if I actually have to think about what to tackle first - if it actually might matter, then you've done your job. 

 

As far as saving or not, I save or cheat way more when recording mostly because I don't want my videos to get too long. A while back I did a lot more no-save playing, especially the iwads, but I did not notice a significant difference in my playstyle. Still, it's an interesting point, and my only advice there is balance it for how you want it. I've said before in videos that sometimes the onus is on the player to make the map fun and/or challenging. The fact is boring gameplay is often an option in "conventional" maps. Short of locking players into every single encounter, there's often some sort of cheesing or camping that can be done somewhere. So I wouldn't worry too much about that aspect. Maybe It's something to mention in a thread or text file: "tested primarily without saves," but that's about it. 

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@Walkerrr

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

In general, the maps so far are too long. I think seven or eight of the first nine feature at least two keys and 250+ monsters. This is a breath of fresh air from that, but I still think it has some unnecessary filler material at the beginning. The main event is toward the end, though I do like the one spider arena. The big finale is appropriately challenging and gives you a bit of a false sense of security, though I do think the supplies might still be a little generous. It’s also a rather flat fight, with all monsters and Doomguy at the same height throughout, but it does have nice hiding and projectile-blocking places.

 

Bottom line: Not a bad change of pace at all

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@nicolas monti

 

After such a long break, I had forgotten about some of the monster stat changes. That’s something that is never a positive for me. Even supposed quality of life improvements like decreasing lost soul hp – I’d just rather have the vanilla characteristics. Other than that, though, you get what you always get from Monti: a very intertwined layout, all of whose mostly narrow areas you will visit at some point. This map somewhat lacked the visual identity of some of his others, but the theme was damaging floor. It was there and it was on your mind. I think there could possibly have been fewer suits to reinforce that theme even more – or even a lot fewer suits and use -5% instead of -10%.

 

Bottom line: It’s a Monti map, only the humans aren’t pathetic.

Edited by HAK3180

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I found it interesting if you gonna check out one of my first speedmaps made in 2017 in 4 hours and see my first experience in this stuff.

 

Map info:

 

Name: Resurrection.

IWAD: Doom 2

Maps: Just one level.

Source Port Tested on: Chocolate Doom\Prboom plus.

Music: Speed of Doom - map21.

Gameplay time: 4-5 mins.

Custom Sky: Yes.

Misc Info From Author: It's a small and tiny tyson-map, period when i wasn't understand how effectively using the time for speedmapping. So yeah, here u gonna see my first experience.

 

Also this map have some gimmicks:

- Half of the map will have open view

- Max 100 hp on the map

- No armor at all. (armor bonus also)

 

Download: spd19p05.zip

Edited by MAN_WITH_GUN

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@Zolgia108

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

4: a fine, albeit simple concept. There are probably too many supplies in secrets. In particular, secret invulnerabilities probably should not be the difference between easy and extremely hard. I liked how the cyberdemon was a serious threat for a long time, so you had to pick your poison between him and the tough fights down the stairs. The exit room, however, doesn't work so well with stairs, as it allows and even encourages a cheesy approach. I'd recommend a lift or something there, at least.

 

26: This started as a well-executed ordeal of thinning out a ton of monsters. It's not easy to balance this type of stuff or to keep it from being boring and/or grindy. I'm afraid the latter wave was that, however, at least for me. Nothing but crackos and nothing but BFG.

 

27: Tough map, but nothing too frustrating with the possible exception of the beginning where you get swarmed and even potentially blocked without decent weaponry. But it's a wild ride with decent variety. I did think the huge rectangle room was a bit underwhelming - not much difficulty (until I had an invulnerability anyway) and not much innovation.

 

Bottom line: These are some good maps. There are things that I don't care for, but the execution is mostly on point.

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@HAK3180

 

Thanks a lot for playing the maps, i will tell you what i think more or less:

 

map 4) this is map 4 so i didn't want to make it that hard, my idea here was to give an advantage for each of the two wings (right one has invulnerability left one makes you telefrag all the pain elementals), but that's just because it's map 4, it was kinda intentional, you can choose how to use the invu after all, it can be with the hk plus imps wave, against the archviles, or something else. I agree with the last cheesable fight, but i think i am going to deactivate freelook for this wad, freelook is always cheap :P

 

map 26) problem is that between map 4 and map 26 there are no "slaughterish" maps but you had to play three in a row so i think that was a main problem there, those were the last crackoes in the wad so don't worry ahahahaha. You are the second one who tested it so i need to fix some stuff there again i guess, not your cup of tea so i can't really say much, i am new to the genre as well so basically i don't really know what i am doing^^

 

map 27) things here should start to get rough, so i really enjoyed the first part of the level and i think it went how i wanted, a constant run for life. The arena didn't go well, i don't really know why cause the other person who tested it was having fun because of the archies in the middle, so maybe (just maybe) i should put more, or make that there are more teleporting in. Pain elementals will be removed and another wave will be added instead. Also i will remove that freaking invulnerability as well, too easy to find and too much game changing as you said. Thanks for the playtest cause now i know for sure :)

 

I don't know when you downloaded the wad last time, but map 28 was changed a lot of times cause it was really messy, so before playing it (if you want to of course) please make sure you downloaded latest version:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2f5h06srefdn04/Happy 28 %2B2.waD?dl=1

 

Hak thanks as usual, all these things help me a lot to improve!

 

EDIT: map 28 started as basically impossible to probably easy^^ so your playtest will be really important to see if the changes were useful or not, i don't really want it to be easy but at the same time i don't want people to get too frustrated by a map

 

 

Edited by Zolgia108

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@DragonsForLunch

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

This is a rather medium wad. Difficulty is not insulting but not hard. Visuals are stock textures but used decently. Layouts are serviceable and sometimes imaginative but never too intricate. Combat has some high heartrate moments and some door camping, mostly in between. In short, these are Doom maps.

 

Bottom line: decent design, adequate gameplay in some Doomy maps

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7 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

@DragonsForLunch

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

This is a rather medium wad. Difficulty is not insulting but not hard. Visuals are stock textures but used decently. Layouts are serviceable and sometimes imaginative but never too intricate. Combat has some high heartrate moments and some door camping, mostly in between. In short, these are Doom maps.

 

Bottom line: decent design, adequate gameplay in some Doomy maps

 

Hey Hak3180! That was a very skilled playthrough! Thank you for the in-depth commentary. You rule!

 

This definitely made me realize that I need to work on my door-encounters. I'd already been thinking that I want to work on more continuous fight without that much doorway fighting. I think it gets better throughout the mapset but you were in pretty good shape the whole way through so there wasn't much incentive to go into the rooms. Gotta work on that!

 

I also liked your point about teleporters. I can easily be a cheap way to continue the map. I definitely fall for that a couple of times, although I also want to limit backtracking. 

 

Glad you overall liked the maps and that I had you surprised a couple of times. In the final fight the switches allows you to telefrag the cyberdemon but you had plenty of ammo so I guess it didn't matter. That last map works a bit better with pistol-start, I believe. 

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More Tricks and Traps than You Require

 

GZ Doom Compatibility (and GZDoom recommended), Doom 2 MAP08 replacement. Thoroughly playtested, and feedback from playtesters testing previous versions has been incorporated. It is a long map though, 30-40 minutes for full completion, although that will increase with more wandering. If you know the map, minimum completion can be done in 10-15 minutes.

 

Freelook is permitted, but should not be required. Jumping and Crouching are not allowed.

 

At its hardest, difficulty in this WAD should be around the level of Plutonia 1... at least according to me, but you will likely find it to be easy.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Stabbey

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When I posted my map on this forum, I was telling myself that I wouldn't go shilling it around threads like these, but... the temptation is too high and I enjoy your videos, so screw it, here it is:

It's complevel 9 and intended mainly for GLBoom+. Difficulty is fairly high (especially if you miss the rocket launcher), but not to a point where a regular Doom player couldn't at all beat it. It should take 30-45 minutes.
Hope you have fun.

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@nicolas monti

 

I like the damaging floor use a little bit better here than M2. I also admire the layout as usual: not much regard for convention and a lot of spatial efficiency. Monti maps are the kind of maps that would trick Doom n00Bs into believing the game is fully 3d. I noticed the enemy stat changes less in this map, but I'm never gonna see a baron and not think 5-6 rockets.

 

Bottom line: the usual intertwining, fun layout

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@Walkerrr

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

11: a little bit dull visually, but it’s short and to the point. No big guns in this one is ominous of what’s to come in this episode, because this map did not lack meaty monsters.

 

12: As usual, there’s a little bit of remote switch action, but if you explore before you press use, you should be alright. Visually, it’s a step up from 11 with more hellscape environmental texturing and the edificial stuff taking on a bit more color. The potential caveat, however, has matured into a full-blown problem, in my opinion. Big guns are withheld for way too long. It often doesn’t make the action more challenging, just more boring. You must shotgun and chaingun your way through dozens of midtiers before sniffing a super shotgun or rocket launcher. And even when you do, the rockets are very limited in this map until the very end. What appears to be the signature setpiece of this map is way too big for what's in it. However, I did appreciate a less predictable deployment of monsters than in the tech episode. Let's hope it doesn't get stale in this episode.

 

Bottom line: People will boredom quit this episode if the next maps don’t increase the pace early

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@MAN_WITH_GUN

 

download the .zip

 

Health is conspicuous by its absence. Most of the monsters in this map will kill you in 2-3 hits on average, but the only health pickup is also your first weapon pickup. It’s also strange to have a quick shotgun section, and it was rather grindy with the perched revenants. Their quantity could probably have been reduced. The map itself has nice flow and solid attention to visuals.

 

Bottom line: decently put together little thing with a couple questionable decisions

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Hello, remember me? I went by the name SamuelNMEvander over a year ago. I have since been quietly mapping on my projects. Compiled them into a playable demo. This wad file includes a reasonably sized, short-to-medium length hell levels for an episode I'm working on. No freelook or jumping required. Lava pits have obstacle decorations as teleport markers to get out of harm's way fast. Use it to mitigate health lost if you fall in. The gameplay's vanilla, old-school made for GZDoom in mind, customized pistol with faster tics. There's modified difficulty settings, read difficulty descriptions in the main menu to find out what they do. Compatibility used in editor is Doom format for GZDoom: Doom2. Let me know if there's some hiccups and I'll see if I can fix them. I tried my best to make the experience fair but shortly increasing in challenge is also the point. If you choose the insane difficulties, the challenge is quite instant. My maps are made for Smooth Doom (faster pistols won't work with Smooth Doom) in mind for the optimal experience, but do what feels good for you.

 

Map info:

 

Name: Hyperdeath

IWAD: Doom 2

Maps: Two levels. Short to medium length.

Source Port Tested on: GZDoom

Music: Killswitch Engage - In The Unblind & Trivium - Ember To Inferno in midi 

Difficulty: Medium to Hard

Gameplay time: 10-12 mins & 15-20 mins

Custom Sky: Yes.

Compatibility: GZDoom. 

 

Additional info: Set in hell. Hyperdeath is a demo that experiments in my attemps at things like custom CWILV letters on menus, MAPINFO & ZDOOM editing and modified weapon tics, pistol this time. The levels are small to medium, taking inspiration from Id Software's IWAD level scale. There will be lots of monsters to span the game time a little bit. There's also light switches and keys that need to be found to progress. Other than that, the levels are meant to be sorta sort and sweet that expands and ramps up in difficulty. 

 

 

Demo features:

- Modified difficulties.

- Deadly lava, dealing -20 damage

- Glowing red magma rocks that deal minor damage

- Damaging hell cracks for minor damage.

- Faster pistol

- Switches and keys

- Secrets

- Custom textures

- Ambushing monsters from teleport closets and rising from the ground

- Custom fist sounds

- White teleporters will not teleport you anywhere, but they will behave as a teleport marker where the player will be teleported to when needed, the white color differentiates them from the red ones, that does teleport the player normally.

- Doom 1 intermission menu music

- BFG9000 (secret)

 

P.S. Hope I got everything here correct, here goes...

 

Download: 

Sam_HellDemo_HyperDeath.rar

Edited by Samuel Slayer : correcting info.

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7 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

Health is conspicuous by its absence. Most of the monsters in this map will kill you in 2-3 hits on average, but the only health pickup is also your first weapon pickup. It’s also strange to have a quick shotgun section, and it was rather grindy with the perched revenants. Their quantity could probably have been reduced. The map itself has nice flow and solid attention to visuals.

 

Bottom line: decently put together little thing with a couple questionable decisions

 

Thank you for the feedback as always.

The first thing I would like to clarify is that this is my first speedmap, not the first map at all. If we talk about my very first wads, the first one was made back in 2013. Second, I guessed almost everything that you said about this map, maybe because the map is quite old and I can already compare it with my new speedmaps.
A remake of this map is also planned, this is one of my main projects, on which I have been working for a long time.

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On 8/26/2020 at 6:48 PM, Stabbey said:

More Tricks and Traps than You Require

 

GZ Doom Compatibility (and GZDoom recommended), Doom 2 MAP08 replacement. Thoroughly playtested, and feedback from playtesters testing previous versions has been incorporated. It is a long map though, 30-40 minutes for full completion, although that will increase with more wandering. If you know the map, minimum completion can be done in 10-15 minutes.

 

Freelook is permitted, but should not be required. Jumping and Crouching are not allowed.

 

At its hardest, difficulty in this WAD should be around the level of Plutonia 1... at least according to me, but you will likely find it to be easy.

 

 

 

 

 

It might be too late, but I've made a small change, to make a certain trap more threatening. It's fine if this is too last-minute, as I'm only making the one notable change.

 

MoreTricks-Ver_204.zip

 

GZ Doom Compatibility (and GZDoom recommended), Doom 2 MAP08 replacement. It is a long map, 30-40 minutes for full completion, but that's my completion and I know where to go. That time will increase with more wandering. I can do a minimum completion run in 10-15 minutes. Freelook is permitted, but should not be required. Jumping and Crouching are not allowed.

 

At its hardest, difficulty in this WAD should be around the level of Plutonia 1... at least according to me, but you will likely find it to be easy.

 

Edited by Stabbey : duplicating info to be thorough.

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@Stabbey (I recorded shortly before you posted the update)

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

Tricks and Traps would not make my top 25 Doom 2 maps, and if the premise of this is that but more, then we’re not off to a good start. I have two issues with such maps. First, they often feel to me like a cheap excuse to cram tons of distinct ideas and themes into one level. Secondly, I just don’t like when I’m trying to focus on the puzzle-esque progression of the map, but the map keeps distracting me with significant combat. So those are strikes against the genre here in general. As for this particular map, I thought there was some interesting gameplay. I like the idea of at least two exit situations, one involving the Keens. I like the gimmicky trick and trap moments – they felt decently well executed. Visually, this map doesn’t have much going for it. The space itself is also basic, but it works for its purposes. At the end of the day, the map is just too long and disjointed for me to enjoy it much. But keep in mind that I’m just not going to love too many maps like this, so you’ll have to try it out for yourself.

 

Bottom line: exactly as the name would suggest

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8 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

@Stabbey (I recorded shortly before you posted the update)

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

Tricks and Traps would not make my top 25 Doom 2 maps, and if the premise of this is that but more, then we’re not off to a good start. I have two issues with such maps. First, they often feel to me like a cheap excuse to cram tons of distinct ideas and themes into one level. Secondly, I just don’t like when I’m trying to focus on the puzzle-esque progression of the map, but the map keeps distracting me with significant combat. So those are strikes against the genre here in general. As for this particular map, I thought there was some interesting gameplay. I like the idea of at least two exit situations, one involving the Keens. I like the gimmicky trick and trap moments – they felt decently well executed. Visually, this map doesn’t have much going for it. The space itself is also basic, but it works for its purposes. At the end of the day, the map is just too long and disjointed for me to enjoy it much. But keep in mind that I’m just not going to love too many maps like this, so you’ll have to try it out for yourself.

 

Bottom line: exactly as the name would suggest

 

Thanks for the play-test. One reason I'm requesting play-tests is for feedback on what does and doesn't work so I can make changes. That's also one reason why it's underdetailed - Not much sense putting in a lot of intricate sector work into a section where everyone hates the gameplay and wants to throw it out. Especially because it's looking more like I will need to toss a lot of this level into the dumpster and come up with new stuff.

 

In some places the under-detailing is because of concealed doors or other sector work which will happen.

 

I can try and deal with the map length, but I'm going to take the complaint about not being able to stand puzzles and combat as a personal preference. EDIT: To be frank, that doesn't make sense to me, because there aren't any puzzles you need to worry about in the middle of combat.

 

More comments on your video in spoiler-tags:

 

Spoiler


- It looks like I'm going to need to remove the lure of the auto-opening door so people don't go in there first, as it's only leading to restless players.

- Or more likely, I should just change the entire map layout to delete that megasphere section. At the very least, I should remove the empty rooms leading to the megasphere and flip the room so the player can enter it from the computer room side, which will at least shorten the section.

- For the second time a playtester has pressed the lift switch for the rocket launcher, lowered it, and not even noticed or heard the sound. I guess I'll need to make the whole thing lower to get them to notice.

- The only real reference to the original Tricks and Traps is the octagon room.

- I'm surprised that people rush in to flip that super shotgun switch immediately. To me, that looks highly suspicious. That trap is a lot less nasty if you clear out the enemies teleporting in before hitting the switch.


- You said that you only need to go into 3 doors in Tricks and Traps. You also only need to go into 3 doors in this map.

- Twice people have spotted and shot the sladskull when leaving the sladwall with sladskull room without returning to check out the room with the skulls. I think I'll add a door opening sound nearby as a hint.

- The previous version of the maze had all the maze lines not visible on the automap, but after a complaint, I decided that was unnecessary and removed that tag

- Hey, someone was fooled by the markers on the door for once.

- That stupid spider mastermind is totally worthless. I'm going to need to remove the plasma rifle and cells from that arena and re-balance it. It is just plain not working with that plasma rifle right there. I can probably cut half the enemies from there, though.

- Goddamnit, another blue key placement got messed up? I tested running into the wall so many times! EDIT: No, wait, the "impassible" flag is missing there. That might be the issue. How did I miss that?

- You dying a whole lot in the Tekgreen room is only partially because it's a tough room, but also partly because you're trying to race through it as fast as possible instead of taking care of it one piece at a time. Also, you left all the enemies behind you alive, and some of them filtered into the room through the teleporter I put in for co-op play. (It hides itself before a single-player gets out.) A lot of the difficulty you faced there was self-inflicted through impatience. Speeding through the room is viable for a speed-run of the map, but speeding through blind in any map is kinda asking for trouble.

 

- Absolutely no one is figuring out how to get the Red key early, although in this case, it's because you assumed you needed the yellow key to get in in the first place and didn't actually check, so that trick actually worked... but now I'm not sure I want it to work. You even looked at the map and failed to notice that there was no yellow line for the "yellow key door". I'm getting rid of the markings.

- The only thing my update changed which you didn't see is that now you'd have caught a face full of Arch-Vile near the end instead of just running past it without even noticing.

- There are two "three key" things, and they're the same thing - opening the gates to the possible exits. The Automap was "any key", the BFG was "any two keys".

- Part of the detail issue is that I don't have a lot of patience in the first place for intricate detailing, but more importantly is that I don't want to spend a lot of time overly detailing sections before getting feedback on the gameplay. For instance, the feedback from this video and others indicates that I should probably just delete and cut large sections of the map, and it's good to know that before I spend a lot of time detailing it.

- The ending of this map is actually planned to be the start of MAP 09 no matter which exit you take, although the "all Keens found" exit lets you keep your health and ammo.

 

Edited by Stabbey

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@Stabbey, I quite understand not finishing detail prior to some good testing. If you had mentioned that more overtly, I wouldn't have commented as much on appearance.

 

2 hours ago, Stabbey said:

I can try and deal with the map length, but I'm going to take the complaint about not being able to stand puzzles and combat as a personal preference. EDIT: To be frank, that doesn't make sense to me, because there aren't any puzzles you need to worry about in the middle of combat.

  • You most definitely should take it as a personal preference. As I stated at the beginning of the video, I never liked Tricks and Traps at all. The whole map is a puzzle; your progress toward preliminary objectives is often interrupted by significant combat surprises and sidequests or you get redirected and tricked or trapped. You either don't know what to do or the map is deus ex machinaing obstacles in your path. That's what I don't like. But if my opinion is nonsense, just disregard it. Don't make a change based on every piece of feedback from every person.
  • The rocket launcher situation is unfortunate. Part of the issue might be in a low-detail map, switching between the different modwalls might just look like carelessness rather than a cue. If you really want the player to find it, I would suggest a proper lift texture. It's still going to be something of a struggle to get up there. If you're okay with something like what happened in my video, do nothing. When enjoyment of a map depends on understanding the map, the map will often be somewhat polarizing. Don't try to please everyone.
  • Regarding the super shotgun room, don't be surprised. You made the map. You can't unknow what you know. In my situation, I was 13 minutes in with still just shotgun and chaingun. A better weapon was welcome. Moreover, I often play somewhat recklessly. Not all players will clear out everything before hitting any switches. In my opinion, good maps keep the player guessing as to whether an objective will trigger a disaster or not. And I quite like it when something that maybe looks like trouble turns out to be a reward. I also think it's good to vary between punishing conservative behavior and punishing reckless behavior (or make both viable).
  • "Fooled by the markers on the door"? I don't remember what this means. You talk about the yellow door later.
  • Tekgreen room - I don't think I complained about the difficulty. This is a fight I would probably have rather enjoyed in a different context, but again, it was frustrating insofar as it was a total sidequest, so I just wanted it behind me.
  • The fake yellow door is not something I would encourage in Doom mapping, even in a map like this. The precedental map conspicuously doesn't do this, and this type of thing feels a lot more cheap than clever. There are some good "aha, you got me" moments in this map. In my opinion a fake keyed door almost always looks more like a mapper error than a trick. In fact, had I opened that door without the yellow key, I probably would have said, "Oh, Stabbey messed up." And I would have backed out and/or loaded a save game and come back with the yellow key, especially seeing that there's another blue door inside and especially with the overall lack of polish in this map.
  • Didn't notice the arch-viles? Of course I noticed. But I had no health and no reason to fight them. They were neither preventing my progress nor visibly guarding something I wanted. Probably a good idea to have revised that.

Lastly and most importantly, I don't know exactly what you're working on, but I encourage you to move on. The feedback on a map like this is probably always going to be all over the board, and after so much time invested, and then more time invested on modifications, you might be too close to it. Work on some other maps in the set. Come back to this in a month and see what you think. Making lots of changes right away based on isolated feedback can be a good path to inefficient mapping.

Edited by HAK3180

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I'm looking for feedback on my most recent map, I intend to make more, but some general direction on what I should improve would be very much appreciated!

I don't quite grasp compatibility issues, but I tested it with Zandronum and GZDoom so I suppose any ZDoom port will work.


https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/116482-single-map-drainhole-looking-for-testers/

 

Edited by Juka

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5 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

@Stabbey, I quite understand not finishing detail prior to some good testing. If you had mentioned that more overtly, I wouldn't have commented as much on appearance.

 

  • You most definitely should take it as a personal preference. As I stated at the beginning of the video, I never liked Tricks and Traps at all. The whole map is a puzzle; your progress toward preliminary objectives is often interrupted by significant combat surprises and sidequests or you get redirected and tricked or trapped. You either don't know what to do or the map is deus ex machinaing obstacles in your path. That's what I don't like. But if my opinion is nonsense, just disregard it. Don't make a change based on every piece of feedback from every person.
  • The rocket launcher situation is unfortunate. Part of the issue might be in a low-detail map, switching between the different modwalls might just look like carelessness rather than a cue. If you really want the player to find it, I would suggest a proper lift texture. It's still going to be something of a struggle to get up there. If you're okay with something like what happened in my video, do nothing. When enjoyment of a map depends on understanding the map, the map will often be somewhat polarizing. Don't try to please everyone.
  • Regarding the super shotgun room, don't be surprised. You made the map. You can't unknow what you know. In my situation, I was 13 minutes in with still just shotgun and chaingun. A better weapon was welcome. Moreover, I often play somewhat recklessly. Not all players will clear out everything before hitting any switches. In my opinion, good maps keep the player guessing as to whether an objective will trigger a disaster or not. And I quite like it when something that maybe looks like trouble turns out to be a reward. I also think it's good to vary between punishing conservative behavior and punishing reckless behavior (or make both viable).
  • "Fooled by the markers on the door"? I don't remember what this means. You talk about the yellow door later.
  • Tekgreen room - I don't think I complained about the difficulty. This is a fight I would probably have rather enjoyed in a different context, but again, it was frustrating insofar as it was a total sidequest, so I just wanted it behind me.
  • The fake yellow door is not something I would encourage in Doom mapping, even in a map like this. The precedental map conspicuously doesn't do this, and this type of thing feels a lot more cheap than clever. There are some good "aha, you got me" moments in this map. In my opinion a fake keyed door almost always looks more like a mapper error than a trick. In fact, had I opened that door without the yellow key, I probably would have said, "Oh, Stabbey messed up." And I would have backed out and/or loaded a save game and come back with the yellow key, especially seeing that there's another blue door inside and especially with the overall lack of polish in this map.
  • Didn't notice the arch-viles? Of course I noticed. But I had no health and no reason to fight them. They were neither preventing my progress nor visibly guarding something I wanted. Probably a good idea to have revised that.

Lastly and most importantly, I don't know exactly what you're working on, but I encourage you to move on. The feedback on a map like this is probably always going to be all over the board, and after so much time invested, and then more time invested on modifications, you might be too close to it. Work on some other maps in the set. Come back to this in a month and see what you think. Making lots of changes right away based on isolated feedback can be a good path to inefficient mapping.

 

I don't make changes just because a tester doesn't like something, only if I think that they have a good point. It is true that feedback is doing to differ from person to person, but when multiple people are giving the same feedback, that's probably something to pay attention to. In this case multiple people do not like the long series of empty rooms between the megasphere and the teleporter, and few people like the following arena fight, no one has gotten the red key room and many people have complained about the map length.

 

The only reason for that long series of empty rooms was because I wanted to give the player a vision of the megasphere as their objective, and I needed hallways to connect the place where they saw it to the far side where they entered the room. I can simply rotate the room 180 degrees and then there's no need for the empty rooms.

 

  • I used the different modwall instead of a lift texture in that arena because another pillar in that area had the same modwall which lowered a lift to a secret switch to unlock Keen #1. The one which lowered the rocket launcher was supposed to be the clue that the other similar texture was also a switch. I might possibly move the Rocket Launcher to the ground and make the entire platform drop instead of one corner, that would be harder to miss.
  • The texturing in that arena might be a moot point, because nobody seems to be finding that arena fight to be enjoyable or interesting. That's fair enough, I didn't at first either, which is why I added Pain Elementals as a way to force the player to engage with fighting. I may remove the arena and make some adjustments.
  •  The reason I'm surprised about the Super Shotgun elevator fight going that way is because a Revenant teleports in a second after entering that area, making it easy to disarm that part of the trap before triggering the elevator, and yet two people have hit the switch immediately. I did test for doing the fight in that way and I'm fine punishing players who are a little reckless.
  • The Tekgreen room wasn't part of a sidequest. It was necessary for acquiring the yellow key.

 

I'm also working on two additional maps at the moment, as well as getting some feedback on another map which is completed. I might submit it here after I do more tests, although it'll probably also be too long and too underdetailed for your taste. But only one real puzzle.

 

Edited by Stabbey

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Hello @HAK3180,

We're looking for testers on our latest megawad, 180 Minutes Pour Vivre.

 


Maps are short / medium-sized.
Difficulty is rough and tends to increase as you progress. Later maps are purposefully evil. :)

Compatibility : you can play this megawad with PrBoom-plus (-complevel 2).
Crispy Doom should work as well.


Version RC2 has been released recently and should be devoid of game-breaking bugs.

Would you like to try it ?
Thanks in advance.

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2 hours ago, WH-Wilou84 said:

[180 Minutes Pour Vivre]

 

I will give it a go, but it will take a while, possibly a month before I get through all of it.

 

Is there a difficulty setting you want tested more than others?

 

EDIT: Do I need to load the .deh file using Crispy?

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