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RonnieJamesDiner

BLOODICIDE (Major Update) * Now w/ Supercharge v1.3

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Very fun and interesting encounters in this one, I will try to play that new version asap. Urge everyone else to do the same. Oh and it looks great, too!

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1 hour ago, elend said:

Very fun and interesting encounters in this one, I will try to play that new version asap. Urge everyone else to do the same. Oh and it looks great, too!

 

Thank you kindly, sir!

 

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the later maps, though, there may or may not be more suicide bombers... :3

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Really enjoyed these maps.  They look and play great.  I died quite a bit but in this case it's a good thing.  I never got frustrated and there was always ammo and health available, so it was only a matter of my own skill.  Just really solid levels the whole way through. 

 

Only issue I came across was in the first level with the crushing ceiling near the end.  The first time the crusher came down, it never went back up and I was effectively stuck on the outside.  Maybe I missed something, but after reloading a save it seemed to go up and down on its own.  Otherwise, no issues.  Well done!

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7 hours ago, Squirb said:

Only issue I came across was in the first level with the crushing ceiling near the end.  The first time the crusher came down, it never went back up and I was effectively stuck on the outside.  Maybe I missed something, but after reloading a save it seemed to go up and down on its own.

 

Hmm, I'm not sure what might have caused this. That whole sequence runs on an ACS script, and there's just a timer for when the ceiling raises back up. I've never had that happen, but I'll see if I can duplicate it. Either way, I'm happy to hear you were able to resolve it by simply loading a save game.

 

Thank you for the feedback, and I really appreciate the kind words. Glad to hear you enjoyed the map set!

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Played the first five maps. (UV, pistol starts.) So far I'm impressed by the density of ideas -- hardly any conceptual filler in sight. Every moment in these compact maps aspires to count. The combat is brisk and challenging, the layouts flow slickly. Visually, some of the texture combos are perhaps garish, but it's not bad to look at and occasionally gorgeous.

 

What could use substantial improvement: 


1) The modded stuff: It's a mismash of tweaks and assets in need of executive tuning, mostly in the form of paring down. The inclusion of the suicide zombies is weird, thematically. The pistol replacement raising your view is a superfluous mechanic. I haven't picked up the cryo-bow in-game yet, but it looks like something from another game entirely. The text file indicates that the mancubus's HP increases in later levels. If that is not visually indicated (or perhaps lampshaded) somehow, I would do so. Changing mechanics in-game with no indication would be inelegant. The new hell knight projectile speed is overdone; when fighting those, it feels like we're in a different game-mode entirely.


2) The reverb in the cave or outdoor parts: It is cheap-sounding, overbearingly loud, and lacks realism. In map03 for instance, a sound in an open area will not echo multiple times within a few seconds. I spent some time trying to figure out how to disable it entirely, to give you an idea. 

 

One correction to the text file:

 

Quote

Arch-Vile:
    Max Target Range increased to 3000 (from 896)

 

The original archvile target range is known to be 1024. 896 in the code is a magic number added to 128. That also means the new target range might actually be 3128, if you simply changed that number. (No thoughts on how this affects gameplay, because I have not fought an archvile yet. Edit: as I mentioned to the OP in a more detailed feedback PM, I ended up breaking something else; I would have faced an archvile by that point otherwise.) 
 

 

Edited by rdwpa

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Thanks for checking this out @rdwpa, I'm glad you've found some of the ideas/combat to be enjoyable so far.

 

11 hours ago, rdwpa said:

1) The modded stuff: It's a mismash of tweaks and assets in need of executive tuning, mostly in the form of paring down. The inclusion of the suicide zombies is weird, thematically. The pistol replacement raising your view is a superfluous mechanic. I haven't picked up the cryo-bow in-game yet, but it looks like something from another game entirely. The text file indicates that the mancubus's HP increases in later levels. If that is not visually indicated (or perhaps lampshaded) somehow, I would do so. Changing mechanics in-game with no indication would be inelegant. The new hell knight projectile speed is overdone; when fighting those, it feels like we're in a different game-mode entirely.

I did wonder how the tweaks were going to be received, so I appreciate the feedback here. So, the suicide zombies came about when I was trying to fill a role - I wanted a monster that closed the distance very quickly, and was very dangerous once it did close that distance. I tried experimenting with some changes to the Pinky, to make him fit this role, but ultimately it didn't pan out, and the suicide bomber seemed to work for it. It's a shame that he doesn't fit in very well (elend had a similar sentiment).

 

For the pistol, I think you're referring to the slight raise in the player view when firing the weapon? Which is a simple A_SetPitch being called. I can easily take that out.

 

Regarding the Mancubus. The only reason that their HP changes at all is because of their early game presence. Their HP is higher in the later levels to account for the extra damage (rockets, heavy chaingun, cryobow). But, when they appear early, and the player only has an SSG, I didn't want it to be a grind just to kill them, so I made an "early game" Mancubus with lower HP. I wasn't even going to include this information in the text file, because it was more of a "behind-the-scenes", quality-of-life type adjustment to reduce the grind of killing them early on (as opposed to a full-on change in mechanics), but I felt obligated to note every alteration I'm making, regardless of what it is.

 

Regarding the HK projectile speed. This... is something I love, haha. There was a time when these projectiles were a lot slower (closer to vanilla), but it just didn't feel as intense (and fun) to me while testing. That said, I became very familiar with it, and biased to it, so this mechanic might not actually be as fun to others as I think it is. I'm sort of cringing now, waiting for you to experience the Baron... his projectiles are even faster. Whoops! I'll see about reducing those numbers a bit.

 

11 hours ago, rdwpa said:

2) The reverb in the cave or outdoor parts: It is cheap-sounding, overbearingly loud, and lacks realism. In map03 for instance, a sound in an open area will not echo multiple times within a few seconds. I spent some time trying to figure out how to disable it entirely, to give you an idea. 

 

I'm sorry you had so much trouble with this. It was one of those things that I always wanted to use in a project, but if it's at the expense of the players' enjoyment, I'll definitely remove it. 

 

11 hours ago, rdwpa said:

The original archvile target range is known to be 1024. 896 in the code is a magic number added to 128. That also means the new target range might actually be 3128, if you simply changed that number. (No thoughts on how this affects gameplay, because I have not fought an archvile yet.) 

 

I was only going on the Archvile Class page on the ZDoom Wiki for this information, and had no idea that this was different. I appreciate the clarification, though! I am confused however, how you've yet to face an Archvile. On UV, you should have fought two of them at the end of map03, and a total of six of them on map05. If you beat both of those maps without fighting an Archvile, I really really want to know how!

 

 

With all of that in mind, I'm excited to hear your thoughts on the rest of the map set. I really appreciate the feedback, it means a lot and will help tremendously in fine tuning this project.  

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4 hours ago, RonnieJamesDiner said:

On UV, you should have fought two of them at the end of map03, and a total of six of them on map05. If you beat both of those maps without fighting an Archvile, I really really want to know how!

 

I likely broke something on map03, and hadn't quite finished map05 at the time of the post. 

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1 hour ago, rdwpa said:

 

I likely broke something on map03, and hadn't quite finished map05 at the time of the post. 

 

If you have the time one day, and if you don't mind, I'd be really interested in seeing a demo of map03 just to see what might be going on. I get crazy tunnel vision while testing maps, and often miss incredibly simple and obvious things xD 

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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/466810679

 

I play this at 2:58:55 into this playtest livestream. (on HMP)

 

This was hard, and it didn't help that I grew tired as I neared the end, but this was hard. Albeit very creative, and interesting, but hard. The weapons (well ok, mainly the heavy machine gun) were fun to use.

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@DuckReconMajor Hey, thanks for checking out the first map. Sorry you had so much trouble with the Cybie, the close-quarters mixed with the increased rocket speed is definitely an unforgiving combination. It is possible to actually tele-frag him, if you lure him down that corridor to the teleport pad, and follow him through. If you decide to check out the next few maps, hopefully you enjoy them a bit more!

 

@Suitepee Thanks for playtesting. I really appreciate you pushing through to completion, despite the exhaustion (and frustration). The opportunity to watch someone sit down and play through the entire thing from start to finish was tremendously helpful in getting a better understanding of it. I think you put it best at one point when you said, “every fight feels like it’s going straight for your jugular”. I was certainly aiming for a challenging experience, but I think I just lost sight of having a proper ebb and flow.

 

This WAD was a huge learning process, and I’m currently working on a large update which I hope will address some of the issues. GZDoom features and effects aside, I think I have a long ways to go just in terms of general map design, so I’m looking forward to venturing into future maps with the feedback I’ve received from this.

 

Cheers everyone.

 

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This wad is great, I really enjoyed it. It's well designed and I liked a number of the balance changes.

 

A few things:

 

- I do like the use of echoes in parts of it. For instance, I loved it when the reverb maxed out right as crusher finished crushing the pinkies and the music cut out, that was a great moment. Other times, it can be a bit much; I'd just say to be strategic about where you use it.

- The Baron of Hell has a projectile speed of 40. This is way, way too fast; combined with the three-way spread, getting hit is essentially unavoidable if you're closer than 30 feet. I edited the Baron projectile speed down to 25 in my game, and the Baron's became more manageable while still being challenging.

- If a monster's mechanics and stats vary significantly from the original, then I'd recommend changing the sprites to reflect that. I found myself falling back into muscle memory when dealing with the Barons and Hell Knights which lead to me dying a few times. Same with the enhanced Mancubuses in later levels; I kept wondering why they weren't dying to 4 double shotgun blasts. Realm667 has a number of sprites that you could use.

- I love the new weapons, especially the new chaingun, but I can't help but miss the plasma rifle. Perhaps it could be included as well?

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On 8/14/2019 at 8:39 AM, DuckReconMajor said:

I enjoyed it quite a bit so far I am just bad at doom and like to give mappers that perspective lol. Thank you for the telefrag tip.

 

I do appreciate it. It's always a healthy reminder that incorporating the different skill levels - from HNTR to UV in this case - is worth doing (and especially, taking the time to try and make sure that each skill level is still fun and interesting to play, which is challenge all on its own!) In the coming update, the Cyberdemon's rockets will be returning to their vanilla speed & damage, so hopefully that first level gimmick will be a little less ruthless. Thanks again for the kind words!

 

 

@Doctor Nick

 

Hey, I'm excited to hear you enjoyed the map set! Thanks for checking it out.

 

- I appreciate what you're saying about the reverb. There are a few places where I do intend to leave it in, and that opening Pinky pit is definitely one of them. I'm basically just going to be removing it from any of the large, open areas where the player spends a lot of time (and could therefore get tired of it very, very quickly).

 

- So, regarding the HKs and Barons: The plan is to revert both the Hellknight and the Baron to their vanilla state, and add two new enemies (namely, Tormentor667's Lord of Heresy, and Archon of Hell) which will have their attacks slightly modified. The HKs/Barons will return to their standard use and behavior, and the two new baddies will present the buffed, challenging additions to the bestiary. I'll be keeping both the Lord of Heresy and the Archon's projectile speed at 26 (none of this 40 business anymore). The HK and Baron will, of course, be back at the default 15 speed. This whole process has been the slowest part of the update, as I'm trying to incorporate all 4 of these enemies into the maps now (though, this has given me a lot more variety for the different skill levels, which is always a blessing).

 

I appreciate the feedback on this aspect. It's definitely been the greatest point of contention, so hopefully the changes take the WAD in a step the right direction.

 

-  The decision to replace the Plasma Rifle actually came from my own playtesting. What I kept finding was that the new Heavy Chaingun felt like it served the same purpose as the PR (just by the sheer damage output per second that it has), and I hardly ever found myself choosing the PR over that new Chaingun. Basically, I knew I had (or, at least it felt like I had) created redundancy in the arsenal, and I really wanted to use the Heavy Chaingun, so I set out to try and remove the redundancy by replacing the PR.

 

The reasons I went with the Cryobow specifically were:

  • I loved that it served as a direct counter to the Arch-Vile (which is one of my favorite enemies to use), in that the more monsters you kill using the Cryobow, the less monsters there are for Arch-Viles to resurrect (or it can be used to strategically eliminate the very specific monsters you don't want the Arch-Vile bringing back, such as the Baron).
  • I loved that the Cryobow could be used to take down Pain Elementals from a distance, while guaranteeing that they won't eject their Lost Souls upon death.
  • I enjoyed the dichotomy it created with the addition of the Suicide Bombers, especially if you found yourself getting cornered by a large pack of them - one blast of the Cryobow and they were dealt with, with no explosions.

Long story short, I felt like the Crybow served some really fun gameplay mechanics, and (just as crucial) it wasn't redundant with the Heavy Chaingun. 

 

However, in any of the playtesting I've had the opportunity to watch, the Cryobow is woefully underused next to the Heavy Chaingun (people friggin' love that Chaingun!) So, I might end up adding the PR back in, but leave the Cryobow in there as well. It can be a situation akin to the Shotgun and SSG, where both weapons occupy the same slot, but each one serves a different purpose.

 

Thanks again for the feedback, and for checking the WAD out. I'm glad you had some fun, and hopefully the next update will correct some of the detracting qualities. Cheers!  

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So I did a let's play today. Got a bit salty near the end but eh, nothing too bad :p .

 

I liked this, good atmosphere, music, and gameplay, and the modifications done to the vanilla enemies sure make them deadly, heh. The new guys aren't bad either. Perhaps my only problem is the fact that the finale is underwhelming. I think it could work much better if Redhaven would be simply switched with Return to Redhaven in the map order (with the required changes), that IoS Diabolist made things much more interesting than the resurrected marine that was super easy to deal with.

 

Note that there's quite a few breaks taken in the video (and a fairly long one after I go to eat, make sure you skip those parts).

 

 

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This seems a cool mapset. Did you get to do the modifications you talked about on August 17?

 

edit: I've been playing it a bit, the maps look great. I like the cryo-bow! It's more like the RL than the minigun/PR.  The suicide zombies, I don't have anything against them, gameplay wise, but I would replace the annoying 'aaaaah!' from SS, that's what it doesn't fit here. And the reverb... can you lower it a bit? It doesn't have to be removed, there has to be a middle point between no reverb and the current amount.

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@seed Hey, thank you so much for the stream, I really enjoyed watching! I noticed the bug involving the crusher in MAP01 reared its ugly head again during your playthrough. I've yet to discover what exactly is causing that, unfortunately. I'm glad to see the majority of the WAD was relatively bug free, though.

 

Consistent with your experience, it really seems like there's a sharp drop in the overall enjoyment of the set once players hit MAP05 and beyond. It seems to generally be a mix between the sudden (and unbalanced) jump in the difficulty curve, and (if I'm being humble) a decline in the quality of the level design. As this was largely a learning process for me, I think I can learn a lot between how I crafted the first few levels versus the later ones.

 

Regarding the finale, there are actually 2 resurrected BFG marines in Ultra-Violence, which is a far more unforgiving and white-knuckle battle. It might be as simple as setting both to spawn during Hurt Me Plenty as well, to really elevate the final sequence, but that will certainly involve playtesting to know for sure. Also, I intend to change MAP05 pretty drastically -- in its current state, it's simply way too hectic and unfocused, which creates a pretty unfair challenge for players. I appreciate the feedback regarding this! Thanks for checking out the WAD :D

 

 

@Raccoon_I_Guess Thanks for the kind words! I'm happy to hear you've been enjoying it. The good news regarding the Suicide Bombers is, they've hit the chopping block and won't be coming back :)

 

 

@Turin Turambar I'm super excited that you liked the Cryo-bow! Thanks for checking the WAD out, I'm glad you've been having some fun. To reiterate, the Suicide Bombers are going to disappear in the next update (for a variety of reasons), and the use of the reverb has been reduced quite extensively. Sadly, I couldn't figure out a way to reduce the actual volume of the reverb (if someone much more experienced with GZDoom knows of such a way, I'd be keen to learn!), so at this point, I've simply removed it from several areas throughout the set. Given that it's only purpose is for atmosphere, and doesn't affect gameplay in any way, I'd rather just see it gone than to be detracting from peoples' experience. 

 

===============================================

 

* General Update *

 

I was out of town for the majority of August and into September, and since returning home, I've been feeling severely burnt out on Doom mapping. I've accomplished a lot of things with the next update/iteration of this WAD already, but there are still several things I hope to achieve, and it will just be a matter of finding the energy and drive to see it done. The last thing I want to do is rush it, and wind up making it worse -- and as the most prolific advice around here is, "Doom mapping should be fun, first and foremost", I'm just going to be patient and let the passion return.

 

I really appreciate all of the feedback and support, I would never improve this craft without it! 

 

 

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12 hours ago, RonnieJamesDiner said:

@seed Hey, thank you so much for the stream, I really enjoyed watching! I noticed the bug involving the crusher in MAP01 reared its ugly head again during your playthrough. I've yet to discover what exactly is causing that, unfortunately. I'm glad to see the majority of the WAD was relatively bug free, though.

 

Consistent with your experience, it really seems like there's a sharp drop in the overall enjoyment of the set once players hit MAP05 and beyond. It seems to generally be a mix between the sudden (and unbalanced) jump in the difficulty curve, and (if I'm being humble) a decline in the quality of the level design. As this was largely a learning process for me, I think I can learn a lot between how I crafted the first few levels versus the later ones.

 

Regarding the finale, there are actually 2 resurrected BFG marines in Ultra-Violence, which is a far more unforgiving and white-knuckle battle. It might be as simple as setting both to spawn during Hurt Me Plenty as well, to really elevate the final sequence, but that will certainly involve playtesting to know for sure. Also, I intend to change MAP05 pretty drastically -- in its current state, it's simply way too hectic and unfocused, which creates a pretty unfair challenge for players. I appreciate the feedback regarding this! Thanks for checking out the WAD :D

 

No problem :p .

 

Now that I think more about it, the main issues with the second part are probably: the difficulty spike, as from there onward there's a noticeable and, at times, rather aggressive change, and the fact that the later maps are too experimental and unfocused. The early levels were consistent with each other in terms of design, but later on it feels more like experimenting with ideas and seeing how they turn out, like the maps with mirror portals to travel between locations. It does indeed lose its focus, and that shows especially on MAP08 (I would have much preferred an entirely new map than a ruined version of an earlier one). I'd advise focusing on what has worked so far and slowing expanding on that with new ideas in places, but not entirely new approaches to the maps.

 

I think MAP05 was good enough as it was, but in need of some cleaning up to make room for better progression. After the IoS Diabolist shows up (out of nowhere, no less, nothing indicates a potential boss fight) things rapidly get quite confusing without much telling the player where they should be going, leaving them to the ol' "die and try again". Sure, trial-and-error is sometimes part of the experience - but not when the map tells the player nothing. Not knowing what to do is almost never fun tbh. I wasted lots of ammo on the cage, only to then realize he took no damage and I had to raise the cage first, oops.

 

Adding both marines on HMP is probably not the best. Even a couple more enemy corpses lying around and 2-3 more AVs would do the trick than 2 marines, and that makes things more interesting and dynamic, enemies trying to distract you from the boss.

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6 hours ago, seed said:

Now that I think more about it, the main issues with the second part are probably: the difficulty spike, as from there onward there's a noticeable and, at times, rather aggressive change, and the fact that the later maps are too experimental and unfocused. The early levels were consistent with each other in terms of design, but later on it feels more like experimenting with ideas and seeing how they turn out, like the maps with mirror portals to travel between locations. It does indeed lose its focus, and that shows especially on MAP08 (I would have much preferred an entirely new map than a ruined version of an earlier one). I'd advise focusing on what has worked so far and slowing expanding on that with new ideas in places, but not entirely new approaches to the maps.

 

I think MAP05 was good enough as it was, but in need of some cleaning up to make room for better progression. After the IoS Diabolist shows up (out of nowhere, no less, nothing indicates a potential boss fight) things rapidly get quite confusing without much telling the player where they should be going, leaving them to the ol' "die and try again". Sure, trial-and-error is sometimes part of the experience - but not when the map tells the player nothing. Not knowing what to do is almost never fun tbh. I wasted lots of ammo on the cage, only to then realize he took no damage and I had to raise the cage first, oops.

 

Adding both marines on HMP is probably not the best. Even a couple more enemy corpses lying around and 2-3 more AVs would do the trick than 2 marines, and that makes things more interesting and dynamic, enemies trying to distract you from the boss.

 

I think you've characterized the main issues perfectly.

 

MAP05 has been a rather funny -- and frustrating -- beast for me. Of the 8 maps, it was the one that saw the most re-works throughout the process of making the WAD. The physical geometry and layout of the map were there from day one (I had this idea of a town, where the player was crawling through the buildings, jumping from window to window as they explored and found their way through the structures), but I must've re-done the encounters / monster placement from scratch at least 20-30 times over the past year, no exaggeration. It seemed like no matter what kind of encounters I tried, it never felt "right". I finally wound up with the IoS battle, and had a lot of fun with the general chaotic and random nature of it, but completely lost sight of how the map might play for someone walking into it for the first time. It ended up creating a huge contradiction even with my own design choices -- I have this geometry that was set up for the player to slowly explore and learn, and then I basically throw a timer at them, forcing them to go as quick as possible lest they be overrun by the IoS. I'm looking forward to returning to that map with a fresh take on the space, and see what I can do.

 

I'll definitely try experimenting with a few different approaches to the finale boss, as well. A few extra Barons in the mix might be all it takes!  

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Hey RonnieJamesDiner, since this mod looks pretty neat I had my usual go in polishing the whole thing:
 

1) Converted the whole projects as .pk3, keeping brightmaps inside a .wad file to not get mad fixing manually definitions with longnamed folders;

2) Reduced drastically file size from 101mb to 40mb almost, mainly thanks to whole ".ogg" conversion for all sounds files beside midi songs;
3) Removed console warnings at startup and redundant sound files (there where like 10);

4) Added a CREDITS folder for credits and updated the file credits.txt with my stuff done for this mod :)

If interested I can still reduce filesize crushing graphics, sprites and textures without broke them, just let me know


Download link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Wa8atkRJcQ6v6XBJKZWnzOtlUg7z7UTZ

READ BELOW FOR UPDATED LINK

Edited by Ozymandias81 : removed outdated link

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Wow!!! I can't thank you enough for this @Ozymandias81! I was being incredibly disorganized with this project behind-the-scenes, but looking through your pk3 right now, I'm actually astounded by how clean and manageable all of this is. Incredible. If I recall correctly, some of the console warnings had to do with the Double Chaingunner and the Diabloist… I think? For the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to address those errors, and it drove me a little bonkers (to the point of ignoring it completely). The reduction in the file size is amazing -- again, my efforts to achieve that always seemed to be in vain.

 

You've done me a huge service, thank you so much. The Spider-Man of WAD polishing, just swingin' in to casually save the day! I'd love to take you up on your offer for crushing graphics and textures, but that is entirely up to you, sir! If you find the time and are genuinely interested, I'd absolutely appreciate the extra touch! You've already helped tremendously. There will, eventually... one day... be an update to this map set, so perhaps waiting for that could also be an option? Just looking at this pk3 is starting to increase my motivation... knowing I don't have to return to that God forsaken mess of a WAD haha

 

If there is a Cacoward for Friendly Neighborhood WAD Organizer, I'm throwing your name in!!! 

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You are welcome @RonnieJamesDiner, ahah Spider-Man of wad polishing XD
These were the problems present on your last upload for this mod, and I solved doing the following:

- since DFire wasn't present, I have commented out that from GLDefs
- ChaingunGuy2 was a typo so I fixed it as ChainGuy2... Don't know if it was the intended thing
- replaced HMachineGun with HeavyMachinegun item for MarineAllyMG
- BMDPOSE5 brightmaps isn't present inside the wad so I have commented out it as well

Then while stitching up the whole pk3 files after a first rough Slade polishment, I have noticed that there were around 10 doubles among sounds plus one texture, which were exactly the same. I hope you are familiar with .pk3 or at least understand how to use it, it is the best solution imho and grants you high reliability for stuff you add/need to find and also you can edit it in real-time while mapping since you can use it a pk3 folder if you unzip it somewhere on your hdd and add it as resource from GZDBuilder... I mean, this way you can edit code and graphics, then save time directly from your folder then reload resources using F8 while mapping. I still didn't fix warnings coming from GLDefs or actors on GZDBuilder, but will check that as well too.

Meanwhile, here you are the updated link (just don't care of old one), now with crushed graphics and brightmaps which also have now a separate folder and wad not anymore.

Download link: 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fvJyjSvIATSFFm37_g1xFooWkPBqatO4

 

PS: SORRY DIDN'T NOTICE THAT YOU HAVE UPDATED THE MAIN OP, DON'T FORGET TO EDIT THE DOWNLOAD LINK AGAIN

Edited by Ozymandias81 : link advice

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21 hours ago, Ozymandias81 said:

These were the problems present on your last upload for this mod, and I solved doing the following:
- since DFire wasn't present, I have commented out that from GLDefs
- ChaingunGuy2 was a typo so I fixed it as ChainGuy2... Don't know if it was the intended thing
- replaced HMachineGun with HeavyMachinegun item for MarineAllyMG
- BMDPOSE5 brightmaps isn't present inside the wad so I have commented out it as well

 

Thank you for resolving these (smacking myself for missing a simple typo error). To be honest, I actually don't know much about the .pk3 format at all. I never realized it had any advantages over the .WAD format, so I'll definitely have to spend some time reading up on it. Again, I can't thank you enough for your generous help and work here! I hope, after all of this, you genuinely enjoy playing the maps :P  

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Well, it’s been a while but that update is finally here. The quick version is...

 

The last 3 levels have been removed, and the mapset is now utilizing Tango’s Supercharge gameplay mod (v1.3 with a few minor tweaks). The 5 levels in the set are essentially identical to what they were before, in order and appearance, though there have been many adjustments based on the transition to Supercharge.

 

Several key pieces of feedback have also been addressed, specifically:

 

- The use of the Reverb Thing has been drastically reduced

- The Suicide Bomber, as well as my modified vanilla monsters, are gone (the bestiary is entirely made up of Supercharge’s cast of monsters now)

- MAP05 (Redhaven) is no longer home to an Icon of Sin battle

 

The longer version is...

 

I realized that I was making life way too difficult for myself trying to balance new maps, and essentially create a mini gameplay mod at the same time, with new enemies, weapons, and randomly altered behaviour for vanilla monsters. I sort of had a vision but it was becoming clearer and clearer as I attempted to update this set that whatever I was trying to do, it wasn’t working.

 

I tried simply reverting everything back to a vanilla state, but it just seemed like the WAD was missing that spark. So, I started shopping around for gameplay mods. I figured I’d have a better chance if I incorporated an actual tried-and-true gameplay mod into the mapset, rather than continuing to fight with the process of making my own (though I may return to that endeavour some day). Then, along came Supercharge and it just felt right.

 

I got to work implementing the mod and adjusting the maps as necessary. As far as axing the last 3 levels of the set... well, I just really didn’t like these maps anymore. There are some interesting ideas in them, which I hope to re-purpose at some point, but in general I just felt like the maps were really half-baked, if not raw in sections. After re-working and testing the first 5 maps with Supercharge, I also kind of settled into the feeling that 5 maps was the perfect length for now, with Redhaven acting as a pretty serviceable finale.

 

There may be more to this set down the road, but for now, I’m happy with this. Hopefully the feeling is shared by others! Thank you to everyone who tested, played, and offered feedback from the initial release. Couldn’t have done it without you! If you already played Bloodicide I can say with a high degree of confidence that it’s worth another run through – it’s definitely a different experience.

 

I hope you enjoy. All feedback, comments, and criticism are absolutely appreciated!

 

Oh and, I still recommend Hurt Me Plenty for a first time playthrough.

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I never did play the first release, but I started playing through the new version (for obvious reasons, among others) and am really enjoying it! here's a big jumble of thoughts I wrote as I was going along (playing on UV):


in map01, I think you can get stuck near the cyb / blue skull pickup. if you hit the switch behind the cyb to raise the lift, then hit the lift from inside to lower it, then run back into the blood area without taking the lift up, you seem unable to get back up once the lift raises. I really enjoyed the pistol-heaviness of the map though. I think the fog is a really nice visual touch - it's heavy enough to be visible, but feint enough to feel natural imo. I really like that first diabolist fight too, with the demons rushing you. the spooky ending was neat, if maybe a little sudden. I don't think I've played anything before that uses echo effects like that though, that was pretty sweet. the tiny box beyond the ending walkover line was slightly visible to me with the light settings that I use, so it might be worth plastering that sector with an all-black texture.


for map02, the diabolist fight (with the caco ball spews) in the main area is pretty cool, I enjoyed that one a lot. the rev cage with the soulsphere at the end gave me a good spook lol. so far I think the environments are pretty excellent - there's a lot of variety in shape and size, with a lot of height variation. ditto here about the post-exit sector visibility.


it has taken me till the beginning of map03 to notice that the pistol clip size is increased, oops. however, it appears the player still only starts with 6 bullets in their clip. if you want to fix this, it should be pretty straightforward to change the starting PistolAmmo (I think that's the right ammo type?) in the Player.dec file. the tiny box that you start in has startan visible in it (ie, same lighting problem as the exits in previous maps). the telepad "puzzle" near the start of map03 is really cool! I also really, really like the curved hallway fight with the archvile -> cyb follow up.


map04's intro is awesome, both the fade-in elevator ride up, and the introduction to the crusher mechanics (that poor marine though). I was actually expecting there to be more of those crushers throughout the map, but instead I kind of forgot about them after the start. in these beginning hallways, it seems like some of the skin pentagram decor in the walls is impassible, while others are not. in the room right before the marine crusher, there's a little sliver of area that's got different lighting for some reason, looks unintentional. in the 4-baron room, there are misalignments on the walls where the red glass windows are, I think upper and lower unpegging those would easily fix that. in the fight near the end with the two diabs on pillars, I think some more meat there would help. maybe 2 or 3 demons that enter the area at the same time as the mancs would do it. the final fight is all really awesome, though I found the first phase a little underwhelming. maybe a cyb in that first phase, with one or two barons replaced by revs, could spice it up? but maybe that's overkill for just the first phase. the 2nd and 3rd phases were pretty fantastic though.


neat start to map05, and I am very fond of the visuals in the southern area of the western area, with the cool gothic fences and the red trees just beyond. for the shiny floor room fight, though I quite like that setup with those diabolists up top, it feels like there could be slightly more pressure put on the player from the crowd below. maybe I just got lucky with archvile RNG, but I had a really solid chunk of time in that main room by myself before the archvile even stepped out, meaning the diabolists weren't that much of a threat because nothing was threatening my space otherwise. perhaps a rev or two ahead of the archvile, or 3 demons or something, could give the encounter some extra beef. otherwise, had a great time playing this one. if you are considering making any further changes, I think it might be worth it to replace the end screen with a moody outro map (I like to name mine "the end" so it's clear when looking at the automap). something really simple, like having the player spawn in a little tiny red-tree island in the middle of the foggy blood sea, would do the trick if that's something you'd consider doing. even if not though, this is a really solid set of maps :D


generally, it feels like you have some of the hardest parts of mapping down really solid, namely, creating interesting environments/geometry, and creating interesting fights in those spaces. I really love all the theatric moments you've put in here, especially the setup for the last fight of map04. I think that tasteful theatrics are sort of unexplored in doom still, so I'd love to see you keep doing stuff like that.


I think a bit more visual polish would really take things from solid to exceptional. personally I think the dark, gothic version of BSTONE seen in map01 is a much better texture that serves virtually the same purpose as the similar hexen one you're using too, so I think both of them aren't really needed. imo you could safely replace all instances of one with the other for a bit more cohesion.


outside of that, I think there's a few big wins that you can get with minimal effort, whether in future revisions of this set, or in new maps of yours:

Spoiler

 

  • if you do a bit of messing with texture alignment and sector height so that textures cutoff only at their natural seams, that will help the tidiness of the maps immensely I think. take GSTONE for example (used a lot in this set, especially the start of map03). to me, even the most geometrically basic GSTONE areas are that much more appealing when all the vertical brick cutoffs are clean, whereas an otherwise excellent GSTONE area with no consideration for the texture cutoffs usually feels messy to me. I know ignoring texture cutoffs can kind of be a stylistic choice sometimes, but most of the time I'm a sucker for clean cutoffs wherever possible. I think mappers like Mechadon and Afterglow really excel at this
  • in a lot of places, I felt the lower texture on some surface didn't really "match" the flat used on top of it. for example, a platform plastered with GSTONE on its sides (lower textures) but the flat on top of the platform is some entirely different material, like wood. again, this can be a style thing, but especially in a mapset targeting an advanced port, most-matching texture/flat combos, especially with nice trim to transition between different flats, look nicest to me.

 

 

if any of that is unclear without pictures or anything, just lemme know and I'd be happy to elaborate!


and a few minor bugs:

 

Spoiler

 

  • the flying behemoth sometimes displays the normal behemoth death animations, which is my bad. I knew about this bug in Supercharge a while ago but forgot to fix it. if you're interested in a fix, lemme know and I can send you a fixed decorate file
  • one of the new skull switch textures has a brightmap bug because it replaces an existing iwad switch texture. to fix this, go to brightmaps/auto, then find and delete sw2blue.png

 

 

 

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@Tango

 

Wow, thank you for the incredible feedback! First and foremost I’m really glad to hear you enjoyed the set (not least of all because I’d shrivel up in embarrassment if I used Supercharge and you hated it, haha).

 

So, map01: As it turns out, that lift by the Cybie is 100% a soft lock, so I’ll definitely be fixing this. Thank you! I was having a lot of fun with that echo thing but I think I over-used it in the initial release. If I recall correctly, that Pinky room is now the only place that has it, and I love the effect of it during that sequence so I’m glad you liked it as well.

 

Map02: Regarding the light levels in the exit boxes, I’m not sure what settings you’re using but that’s pretty funny (and slightly embarrassing!). I’ll throw some black textures in there for safety. I did change the ammo clips to 9, but I couldn’t for the life of me figure out why it was still giving me 6 at the start. Can’t believe I didn’t think to look in the Player.dec... doh! Thank you. Thank you thank you.

 

Map04: /cough/ You might be able to save that marine /cough/. That’s all I’ll say. I’ll definitely try adding some extra bodies at the diab / pillar fight (I was having a hell of a time finding a good combination of enemies in that area, I like the Pinky idea). As far as the circular arena with the Barons, the first part is kind of intentionally easy – the hope was that it would lull the player into a false sense of security, then the drop into the pit with the Archviles would catch them off-guard that much more.

 

Map05: I hear what you’re saying about that top room with the diabs and Archvile. It’s funny, every time I tested that room, it seemed like something different happened (a plus for replayability I guess). Sometimes the fight was pretty easy, sometimes it literally whooped my butt, and depended entirely on what that Archvile and the Barons would do. I’ll tinker with it a bit maybe. I actually love that idea about the moody little island for the end, I didn’t realize you could replace the ending screen with a map. It’s tempting!

 

I appreciate all the thought and help you put into this, thank you again. I’m really delighted to hear you had fun, and found some appreciation for all the theatrical stuff – I agree, it’s an element I don’t see too much of in Doom maps, and I really wanted to explore it.

 

Now, I absolutely 110% hear you about the texture alignments and overall choices. Truth be told, texture/detail work is the aspect of Doom mapping that I dread the most. I’d honestly prefer teaming up with someone who enjoyed doing it, and never doing it again. With practice and time I know I’ll improve, and I definitely appreciate the feedback in that regard (don't get me wrong), but at the end of the day it’s still a tremendous struggle for me. Not just because of my general lack of skill in that area, but I also just loath the process, haha. It always feels so exhausting. I’m right there with you when it comes to brick/stone textures not ending on a seam though, and I’ll certainly be addressing those where I can.

 

Regarding the bugs: That’s really bizarre to hear about the Behemoth, I don’t remember actually seeing that! Although I may have just been too focused on other things. I’ll see if I can fix that brightmap issue on the switch texture though (/shudder at the thought of dealing with more brightmap problems).

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Quick update // v2.1

 

Updating the download with v2.1 which just has a few small changes, including:

 

  • (Most importantly) Fixed soft lock at the Blue Skull / Cyberdemon lift in MAP01
  •  Added all-black textures to exit boxes in maps 01-03
  •  Added Pinky swarm to Diabolist pillar fight in MAP04
  •  Adjusted Pistol starting clip to reflect new clip size (9 instead of 6)
  •  Fixed brightmap issue with skull switch
  •  Haedexebus death animation/projectiles fixed (courtesy of Tango)
  •  Various texture alignments

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