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johnboy3434

Which unofficial expansions actually paid Id Software for the license?

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Posted (edited)

According to the Doom Fandom wiki, the otherwise unofficial Doom II expansion/total conversion Hacx: Twitch 'n Kill was released with Id Software's blessing after the developer Banjo Software paid Id for a "limited add-on license". I wasn't aware that any of the myriad non-Id episode/level packs released for sale actually paid for the right to do so, and now I'm wondering if Hacx was the only one. Anybody here with encyclopedic knowledge of old Doom releases want to share some knowledge?

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https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/240893/

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/398028/
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/399321/

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/696887/

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/999812/


Supposedly, both Hell to Pay and Perdition's Gate were licensed by id, according to these posts. Unfortunately, there are no verifiable citations to back up these statements, as far I am aware.

 

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Posted (edited)

Hmm, what about The Lost Episodes of Doom? Is there any indication that they had Id's license? It seems like there should have been legal issues with them using "Doom" in the title otherwise, but then what do I know?

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As for The Lost Episodes of Doom, I don’t know what to say. I asked John Romero this months ago:

 

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Off-topic: Do you remember if The Lost Episodes of DoomPerdition´s Gate (supposedly, Final Doom was going to include it, but missed the window of opportunity) and Hell to Pay were 3rd party megawads either authorized or licenced by iD Software back then?

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/The_Lost_Episodes_of_Doom
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Perdition's_Gate
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Hell_To_Pay

 

And he answered this, somewhat laconically:

 

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Really, Evilution was the only reason for Final Doom. Plutonia was added at the last second, and no other megawads were considered.

 

At any rate, id commissioned Christen David Klie to build some levels for the Master Levels for Doom II, so that I guess he hadn’t done anything that pissed them off.

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Posted (edited)

"Evilution" was the only reason for Final Doom? Odd, since fans seem to hold "Plutonia Experiment" in much higher regard.

 

Sucks that he didn't answer the entire question. So, as it stands, it appears that Hacx, Hell to PayPerdition's Gate, and "Kick Attack!" were the only licensed third-party projects, then.

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8 hours ago, The Maverick013 said:

This is not really going to be that useful but here's a short interview with Chris about The Lost Episodes of Doom. And here's Tom Mustaine's website.

 

EDIT: And here's a little story about Kick Attack! but I can't confirm if it's 100% real.

 

I absolutely adore the idea that Id took the license payment in the form of soft drinks. That's some pure, wholesome small-business shit right there.

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On 8/22/2019 at 2:25 AM, The Maverick013 said:

This is not really going to be that useful but here's a short interview with Chris about The Lost Episodes of Doom. And here's Tom Mustaine's website.

 

EDIT: And here's a little story about Kick Attack! but I can't confirm if it's 100% real.

Thanks for that link on Kick Attack. Although granted, Tim Willits was a naughty boy with some of the texturing - I remember a real bad case of tiling in one of the teleporters near the end.

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On 8/22/2019 at 1:57 AM, johnboy3434 said:

"Evilution" was the only reason for Final Doom? Odd, since fans seem to hold "Plutonia Experiment" in much higher regard.

 

Sucks that he didn't answer the entire question. So, as it stands, it appears that Hacx, Hell to PayPerdition's Gate, and "Kick Attack!" were the only licensed third-party projects, then.

 

Evilution started life as a community project before it was noticed by id and they decided to make it an official retail release. Plutonia might be held in higher regard but it was a later decision to let the Casali brothers contribute another full IWAD. What Romero means is Evilution is the reason Final Doom existed in the first place.

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It seems there are varying versions of the same story.

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/D!ZONE

 

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D!ZONE Gold included demos of the partial conversions Hell to Pay and Perdition's Gate, created by Wraith Corporation. These modifications were also allegedly in violation of the Doom EULA and Data Utility Licenses, which forbade commercial profit from Doom modifications without id Software's permission.

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1113122/

 

On 10/16/2012 at 2:09 PM, Gez said:

Presumably. I do not have access to Id Software's accounting and legal archives to check who bought licenses from them. I know the Hacx guys did, and so did Wraith Corporation. Not sure about Sybex. Technically, they sold a book; the game data was a bonus to the book.

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https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Wraith_Corporation

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Wraith Corporation was a team of PWAD authors incorporated to create a custom WAD for Doom II and then sell it after obtaining a license from id Software. During the development of their project Hell to Pay, Tom Mustaine approached them with a personal project created alongside his father, Perdition's Gate, which had earlier been offered to id as a part of Final Doom, but was turned down on account of the "window of opportunity" having been declared closed.

 

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