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MaxRideWizardLord

Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth is the best soundfont for Doom?

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13 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

After all those years I still use Timidity++ with EAWPats. I only found a handful of MIDIs during that time that really need an SC-55 sound font to not sound broken - for those there's GZDoom's $mididevice option to define something better fitting. ;)

 

I've tried all of the given midi players from GZDoom 4.2.0 to play that HR2's map09 midi song, and the only one that plays the song correct was Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth.

 

I have no idea why that is. Does all of the given GZDoom 4.2.0's midi players play only certain soundfont, while Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth plays the one build in to Windows itself?

 

Mister Graf Zahl, please enlighten me about the unsolved mystery that lies behind that sacred Short Circuit midi file, aka music from Hell Revealed 2's map9. I'm soooo confused right now and nobody seem to comment regarding that specific masterpiece unfortunately.

 

13 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

The GS Wavetable Synth is a MIDI player - just like FluidSynth, and Timidity++.

It could theoretically be used with any sound font, had Microsoft not chosen to use a soundfont format that isn't supported by anything else in the world, FmodEx excluded, meaning there's almost no alternative sound fonts being made on it. This makes some people believe that the player and its sole sound font are the same thing, which they are not.

 

So if I get it correct, GS Wavetable Synth using soundfont that is IDENTICAL to SC-55 in all way possible?

 

Also, mind if I ask, why FMOD was removed from the latest versions of GZDoom?

 

13 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

You cannot install this on Android because it is a piece of Windows, not some separate software.

 

So... Nobody managed to port this "piece of windows" out as stand alone program yet? Well, that's a shame.

 

4 hours ago, Doomkid said:

EDIT: For the love of Gord, if your device asks for a custom soundfont for the Doom tracks, please hear them the way they were meant to be heard. Here's a soundfont that is identical to the stock Windows MIDI sound. https://musical-artifacts.com/artifacts/713

 

So this soundfont is actually ripped off from the Windows, or it's just another soundfont made by someone that is 100% identical to the one default Window's is using?

 

By the way, you wholeheartedly talking about using the original Windows MIDI sounds, are you the Sam Woodman by any chance?

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1 hour ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

So if I get it correct, GS Wavetable Synth using soundfont that is IDENTICAL to SC-55 in all way possible?

Nope.  Besides the samples being lower quality, many of the instruments sound different, such as the Distortion Guitar.  Only the physical SC-55 sounds exactly like "SC-55".

You can hear a real SC-55 compared with Virtual Sound Canvas here (MS Synth and VSC share most of the same samples):
 

 

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4 hours ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

 

I've tried all of the given midi players from GZDoom 4.2.0 to play that HR2's map09 midi song, and the only one that plays the song correct was Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth.

 

I have no idea why that is. Does all of the given GZDoom 4.2.0's midi players play only certain soundfont, while Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth plays the one build in to Windows itself? 

 

Mister Graf Zahl, please enlighten me about the unsolved mystery that lies behind that sacred Short Circuit midi file, aka music from Hell Revealed 2's map9. I'm soooo confused right now and nobody seem to comment regarding that specific masterpiece unfortunately.

 

 

Sorry, I cannot help you here. On occasion some MIDI producers may inadvertently depend on certain properties of one specific synth. It may be that the file contains an error which doesn't bother the GS Wavetable synth but makes others do unexpected stuff.

 

A well known example of this is the music in TNT Evilution MAP02 which had incorrect volume settings and made it sound like shit if the synth  couldn't cope with the bad values it got. AFAIK most ports have fixed this on their side now by clamping the bad value before passing it on.

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8 hours ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

Nope.  Besides the samples being lower quality, many of the instruments sound different, such as the Distortion Guitar.  Only the physical SC-55 sounds exactly like "SC-55".

You can hear a real SC-55 compared with Virtual Sound Canvas here (MS Synth and VSC share most of the same samples):
 

 

 

Damned!!! Oh well, everyday you learn something new... And as a consequence of it, I get even more confused.

 

Could you please tell me, how do I get exactly this "real SC-55" to play in my doom on PC and android, considering that "emulated" is not played the music the way is it intended to be played? Appears I just have the emulated SC-55, or whatever I even have, I have no idea.

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3 hours ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

Could you please tell me, how do I get exactly this "real SC-55" to play in my doom on PC and android, considering that "emulated" is not played the music the way is it intended to be played? Appears I just have the emulated SC-55, or whatever I even have, I have no idea.

If you want a real SC-55 you'll have to buy one second hand. eBay is the best place to look, though I got extremely lucky recently and was able to pick one up for $50 from someone who was selling one on Facebook Marketplace.

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On 9/2/2019 at 6:04 AM, fraggle said:

If you want a real SC-55 you'll have to buy one second hand. eBay is the best place to look, though I got extremely lucky recently and was able to pick one up for $50 from someone who was selling one on Facebook Marketplace.

 

Are you saying there wasn't made a single software program which would emulate Roland SC-55 as close as it's only possible to be identical to original Roland SC-55 Synth on modern PC hardwares? 

 

What's so special about this mysterious outdated music box from 90's? Getting these are rather expensive nowadays, and so is delivery to the other side of the planet.

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Emulating perfectly some mysterious outdated music box from the 90s is very difficult, because they're not exactly open source, and you can't even open them in a hex editor to figure out the assembly. When you've got to figure out how a custom chip worked, you need expensive materiel and some pretty rare know-how.

 

I mean, Virtual Sound Canvas was an official product from Roland, and the Roland engineers were the people in the best place to provide a fully-accurate emulator since they are the ones who worked in the company which held all the design notes for the physical Sound Canvas and could talk to their colleagues who made it.

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1 hour ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

 

Are you saying there wasn't made a single software program which would emulate Roland SC-55 as close as it's only possible to be identical to original Roland SC-55 Synth on modern PC hardwares? 

There is absolutely such an emulator - the Virtual Sound Canvas is the official one from Roland, the original manufacturer of the Sound Canvas. It's the subject of the video in the post you were previously responding to. If you don't care about the subtle details then you can use it. I was just answering your question for you - you asked what a "Real SC-55" is.

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28 minutes ago, fraggle said:

There is absolutely such an emulator - the Virtual Sound Canvas is the official one from Roland, the original manufacturer of the Sound Canvas. It's the subject of the video in the post you were previously responding to. If you don't care about the subtle details then you can use it. I was just answering your question for you - you asked what a "Real SC-55" is.

 

So the Virtual Sound Canvas is the one that makes any midi sound perfectly the same as if it was played on Roland SC-55?? So much perfectly identical that it would sound exactly like the "Real SC-55" from the video the user TheUltimateDoomer666 provided?

 

Where can I get these Virtual Sound Canvas and what exactly would I have to do in order to make GZDoom play them?

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Virtual Sound Canvas is from the same era as the Microsoft synth. The current up to date official Roland simulation is Sound Canvas VA, a VST synth (which can be hooked up to vsthost and loopmidi) which simulates a SC-8820, but also has SC-55 and SC-88(pro?) mappings. Although... apparently the latest release of the old Virtual Sound Canvas (that is VSC-MP1) has a higher number of voices compared to Sound Canvas VA, but a lower number of tones (could somebody explain what tones are?)

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"Tones" are basically the MIDI instruments.  Acoustic Grand Piano is a tone.  Distortion Guitar and Overdriven Guitar are tones.  The General MIDI standard defines 128 tones, but the GS and XG standards greatly increase this number.  However, very few games make use of the additional melodic GS/XG instruments.

 

7 hours ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

So the Virtual Sound Canvas is the one that makes any midi sound perfectly the same as if it was played on Roland SC-55?? So much perfectly identical that it would sound exactly like the "Real SC-55" from the video the user TheUltimateDoomer666 provided?

No, you can hear in the video that they do not sound exactly the same.  The "emulated" recordings in that video are from the Virtual Sound Canvas.

 

Creating a software version of a synth that sounds "perfectly the same" as the hardware version is a lot harder than you think, not just for the SC-55 but for any synth in general.  There are certain aspects of physical sound hardware that simply cannot be replicated with software alone.

 

There will never be a software version of the SC-55 that sounds 100% identical to the hardware in every way because it is just not possible.  Not only that, there are different models of SC-55 units which have slightly different specs.  The original SC-55 for example has an output resolution of 16-bits @ 32 kHz, whereas the later SC-55mkII has an output resolution of 18-bit @ 32 kHz.

 

Finally, here's a video comparing the hardware SC-55 to Sound Canvas VA.  SCVA is a newer official Roland Sound Canvas software synth that is even more accurate than VSC, although there are still some differences from the original hardware:
 

 

Edited by TheUltimateDoomer666

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MAME has an SC-55 emulation component. I've never tried it, but if anyone is qualified to make a perfect (even better than Roland) emulator, it'd be MAME. Seems to also depends on ROMs from the original SC-55, which is probably where all the samples and such are stored.

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5 hours ago, chungy said:

MAME has an SC-55 emulation component. I've never tried it, but if anyone is qualified to make a perfect (even better than Roland) emulator, it'd be MAME. Seems to also depends on ROMs from the original SC-55, which is probably where all the samples and such are stored.

How the hell I can even dump ROMs from SC-55/SCC-1 then?

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2 hours ago, Cacodemon345 said:

How the hell I can even dump ROMs from SC-55/SCC-1 then?

Open box; remove or desolder chips from motherboard (one is socketed; the rest are not). Place chips into an EEPROM programmer and use the EEPROM programmer's software to dump the contents of the ROM.

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1 hour ago, Get Phobo said:

I've found an SC-55 soundfont that sounds almost exactly like the hardware SC-55. You can use it with CoolSoft's VirtualMIDISynth for Windows.

 

"/SC55EmperorGrieferus.zip".

 

That's probably the fixed version of Patch93's SC-55 soundfont, judging by the URL. I don't know if it has other modifications apart from working correctly in newer versions of ZDoom with Fluidsynth though.

 

As about

 

17 hours ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

So the Virtual Sound Canvas is the one that makes any midi sound perfectly the same as if it was played on Roland SC-55?? So much perfectly identical that it would sound exactly like the "Real SC-55" from the video the user TheUltimateDoomer666 provided?

 

I don't think any emulation or soundfont is ever going to match the original, real hardware 100%. If you absolutely must have perfect accuracy, you're probably better off buying an SC-55 device instead.

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The soundfont is version 3.7. I can't say more on that. It's pretty good, though, the most accurate so far.

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4 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

I've found an SC-55 soundfont that sounds almost exactly like the hardware SC-55. You can use it with CoolSoft's VirtualMIDISynth for Windows.

 

Interesting... Have you done any comparison of this soundfont along with the one that Roland SC-55 provide, or the one that came with Windows's GS Wavetable Synth?

 

Would you please tell me how would I isntall such interesting software while still having the original Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth?? I'd really like give it a comparison with Doom's midis in GZDoom, just so I could tell if there is any differences.

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I did an extensive comparison of the running game's soundtrack against hardware SC-55 recordings. I listened for about half a minute to the in-game soundtrack, then paused the game and switched to SC-55 recording for comparison; then paused the track, switched back to the game, and unpaused it, so the track selected there would continue to play.

 

That way it is very easy to spot differences. You can get perfect recordings made on an SC-55 Mk. I (the kind Bobby Prince used in 1993/94) here. (Select Music Packs > Doom/Doom II from the menu.)

 

On YouTube, there are some software recordings based on an older SC-55 soundfont as well as there are recordings done on an SC-88 in SC-55 mode and some that were done on an SC-55 Mk. II. ... Those are not the tracks you're looking for. They will always sound different from the original SC-55 Mk. I, even the Mk. II will. Just stick to the recordings from sc55.duke4.net (as linked in the paragraph above).

 

Now, in order to use custom soundfonts with your system, you will need CoolSoft's VirtualMIDISynth and MIDIMapper Configurator. Install those tools, then load the soundfont in VMS under Configuration > Soundfonts (right-click on the tray icon for the menu). It's all pretty self-explanatory in the program window.

In the MMC, you can also map the whole Microsoft synth to VMS, if you like. This might fix some mapping problems VMS sometimes cannot overcome.

 

Let me know if you need any further help.

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2 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

I did an extensive comparison of the running game's soundtrack against hardware SC-55 recordings. I listened for about half a minute to the in-game soundtrack, then paused the game and switched to SC-55 recording for comparison; then paused the track, switched back to the game, and unpaused it, so the track selected there would continue to play.

 

Wow, thanks for your effort! So from your own experience, this PC software SC-55 does indeed sound exactly like "real" hardware Roland PC-55? At least, would you tell if both did play the "silent" instruments the proper - intended way, like shown in the video that the user TheUltimateDoomer666 provided to us a few posts above?

 

2 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

On YouTube, there are some software recordings based on an older SC-55 soundfont as well as there are recordings done on an SC-88 in SC-55 mode and some that were done on an SC-55 Mk. II. ... Those are not the tracks you're looking for. They will always sound different from the original SC-55 Mk. I, even the Mk. II will. Just stick to the recordings from sc55.duke4.net (as linked in the paragraph above).

 

But the primary reason I really want an perfect-clone of SC-55 emulator so I could play the oldschool doom mods that seem to play only properly under original SC-55 and seem to be were designed with the same intention. I really doubt the person from sc55.duke4.net will bother to upload all of the music packs from all of the possible doom mods, for obvious reason.

 

I didn't knew that SC-55 Mk.II did sound differentfrom Mk.I, wow there is so much to learn. Thanks for the info.

 

2 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

Now, in order to use custom soundfonts with your system, you will need CoolSoft's VirtualMIDISynth and MIDIMapper Configurator.

 

The problem is, I have Windows 7 (64) on this HDD, and on the website of MIDIMapper it said the software is for win 8, 8.1 or 10. When I tried to install the MIDIMapper, the installation said that "MIDIMapper is already available on this OS, will install only configurations", and so I did install these. So it's all good or I need to find another MIDIMapper for Windows 7?

 

2 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

Install those tools, then load the soundfont in VMS under Configuration > Soundfonts (right-click on the tray icon for the menu). It's all pretty self-explanatory in the program window.

 

It's not as easy for me as you make it think... Considering I have zero knowledge about how midi players, their soundfonts and theirs softwares are working, I'm pretty much learning absolutely new things right this moment, it's very hard to follow your thoughts; and the fact the software I download uses different language than English is not helping it either... In fact, I had to google your abbreviations a few times in google to find no results just to realize after 10 minutes that what you mean by "VMS" is SEEM to stand for VirtualMIDISynth and MMC is MIDIMapper Configurator, lol.

 

But I guess what is called the "Банк звуков" (roughly translates as the "bank of sounds") is what you meant by the Configurations > Soundfont. Either way, I've downloaded the Zip file you posted in the first link of yours... Picking up the .zip file end up the configuration do fails, and yet the .zip file consist of many small files and one huge file, so I wasn't sure if I needed to unzip these too. Some .sqlite file (no idea what that is) some .xml files (no idea what that is) and the biggest .sf2 file (no idea what that is, but I assume it's the soundfont). So I should just go to the Банк звуков, click the plus icon to add that .sf2 file, apply that item and here we go?

 

Yes, I've read both of these websites in the links you gave me.

 

2 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

In the MMC, you can also map the whole Microsoft synth to VMS, if you like. This might fix some mapping problems VMS sometimes cannot overcome.

 

Honestly, I wanted to have them both. The default vanila Window's GS Wavetable Synth (with whatever soundfont it uses) and the VirtualMIDISynth with the PERFECT clone of the real Roland SC-55 hardware. I hope it's something possible? I have trouble in understanding what you mean by "some mapping problems", as I'm not completely understanding what you mean by "mapping". Thus, I cannot understand what kind of "problems" you're talking about when you say this "this might fix some mapping problems VMS sometimes cannot overcome"; therefore I cannot yet know if I trully need to use the MIDIMapper Configuration. I'm sorry for being clingy.

 

2 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

Let me know if you need any further help.

 

Well, I've put that .sf2 file from the zip from your original post in to Банк звуков, clicked apply, and now when I launch GZDoom I see can select the "VirtualMIDISynth 1#" (no idea what's the "1#" is there for. I wonder if I upload more soundfonts for this VirtualMIDISynth, will I get like "VirtualMIDISynth 2#", "VirtualMIDISynth 3#", etc?).

 

I don't know if you can answer with your certainity, but from your own experience, the .sf2 file you gave for VirtualMIDISynth me does indeed sound exactly like real Roland SC-55?? If so, I guess it's the closest thing I can get it on PC.

 

Aside from the already shitton some of the questions I'm asked, I think I have only two left. Is it possible for FluidSynth to use the SoundFont from either default Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth, or the SoundFont you just gave me? Last question is, is it possible to install the SoundFont you gave me for the Android version of GZDoom?

 

P.S. thanks a lot for trying to help me, I really appreciate it!

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45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

So from your own experience, this PC software SC-55 does indeed sound exactly like "real" hardware Roland PC-55?

No, I didn't say that. But it does sound very similar. You will still hear differences, and some instruments won't be played the way they should.

 

45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

At least, would you tell if both did play the "silent" instruments the proper - intended way, like shown in the video that the user TheUltimateDoomer666 provided to us a few posts above?

Some instruments might be played differently.

 

45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

But the primary reason I really want an perfect-clone of SC-55 emulator so I could play the oldschool doom mods that seem to play only properly under original SC-55 and seem to be were designed with the same intention. I really doubt the person from sc55.duke4.net will bother to upload all of the music packs from all of the possible doom mods, for obvious reason.

I don't know. You will have to try for yourself. But most custom MIDIs that come with WADs and sound like crap with the standard soundfont will probably sound like crap with this one, too.

 

45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

I didn't knew that SC-55 Mk.II did sound different from Mk.I, wow there is so much to learn. Thanks for the info.

Not much probably. But the Doom OST was done on a Mk. I, so that's the reference design.

 

45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

The problem is, I have Windows 7 (64) on this HDD, and on the website of MIDIMapper it said the software is for win 8, 8.1 or 10. When I tried to install the MIDIMapper, the installation said that "MIDIMapper is already available on this OS, will install only configurations", and so I did install these. So it's all good or I need to find another MIDIMapper for Windows 7?

Windows 7 doesn't need the MIDIMapper since it already has one.

 

45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

It's not as easy for me as you make it think... Considering I have zero knowledge about how midi players, their soundfonts and theirs softwares are working, I'm pretty much learning absolutely new things right this moment, it's very hard to follow your thoughts; and the fact the software I download uses different language than English is not helping it either... In fact, I had to google your abbreviations a few times in google to find no results just to realize after 10 minutes that what you mean by "VMS" is SEEM to stand for VirtualMIDISynth and MMC is MIDIMapper Configurator, lol.

Yes. I should have made that clearer.

 

45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

But I guess what is called the "Банк звуков" (roughly translates as the "bank of sounds") is what you meant by the Configurations > Soundfont. Either way, I've downloaded the Zip file you posted in the first link of yours... Picking up the .zip file end up the configuration do fails, and yet the .zip file consist of many small files and one huge file, so I wasn't sure if I needed to unzip these too. Some .sqlite file (no idea what that is) some .xml files (no idea what that is) and the biggest .sf2 file (no idea what that is, but I assume it's the soundfont). So I should just go to the Банк звуков, click the plus icon to add that .sf2 file, apply that item and here we go?

Configuration > Soundfont are menu/window items. If you right-click on the VMS tray icon you will see what I mean.

You need to unzip the .zip file, of course. You only need the .sf2 file. Copy it to your personal folder, then load it via the plus icon in the VMS window.

 

45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

Honestly, I wanted to have them both. The default vanila Window's GS Wavetable Synth (with whatever soundfont it uses) and the VirtualMIDISynth with the PERFECT clone of the real Roland SC-55 hardware. I hope it's something possible? I have trouble in understanding what you mean by "some mapping problems", as I'm not completely understanding what you mean by "mapping". Thus, I cannot understand what kind of "problems" you're talking about when you say this "this might fix some mapping problems VMS sometimes cannot overcome"; therefore I cannot yet know if I trully need to use the MIDIMapper Configuration. I'm sorry for being clingy.

Mapping means that one specific MIDI device is defined as the system's default MIDI device via the MIDI mapper. You can assign anything that can play MIDI to it.

 

45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

Well, I've put that .sf2 file from the zip from your original post in to Банк звуков, clicked apply, and now when I launch GZDoom I see can select the "VirtualMIDISynth 1#" (no idea what's the "1#" is there for. I wonder if I upload more soundfonts for this VirtualMIDISynth, will I get like "VirtualMIDISynth 2#", "VirtualMIDISynth 3#", etc?).

You can define more than one VMS. This is useful for having different configurations. You can then just switch the VMS instead of having to fiddle with one VMS's config every time you want to change something.

 

45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

I don't know if you can answer with your certainity, but from your own experience, the .sf2 file you gave for VirtualMIDISynth me does indeed sound exactly like real Roland SC-55?? If so, I guess it's the closest thing I can get it on PC.

It's not absolutely same-sounding, but it's very close to the hardware SC-55. It does sound worse in most cases, though, albeit not much.

 

45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

Aside from the already shitton some of the questions I'm asked, I think I have only two left. Is it possible for FluidSynth to use the SoundFont from either default Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth, or the SoundFont you just gave me?

Yes, you can load the soundfont with FluidSynth, too. You will need to copy it to the "soundfonts" folder in your GZDoom folder first, then specify it in the game's config menu for FluidSynth (under Sound options > Advanced options > Midi player options > FluidSynth > Select configuration).

 

45 minutes ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

Last question is, is it possible to install the SoundFont you gave me for the Android version of GZDoom?

I don't know. I only use PC for gaming. But I guess it should work just the same (via the "soundfonts" folder and the game's config menu).

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5 hours ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

Wow, thanks for your effort! So from your own experience, this PC software SC-55 does indeed sound exactly like "real" hardware Roland PC-55? At least, would you tell if both did play the "silent" instruments the proper - intended way, like shown in the video that the user TheUltimateDoomer666 provided to us a few posts above?

No.  It would not be possible for any soundfont to sound exactly like the hardware SC-55 due to file format differences, limitations, etc.  In contrast to SF2 files for example, the SC-55 hardware uses both PCM synthesis and cut-down LA synthesis.  For this reason, the SC-55's ROM is a mere 3.25 MB, while that soundfont linked above is a whopping 103 MB.  In other words, soundfonts contain "recordings" of instruments, including instruments that might be entirely synthesized in real-time on a hardware synth, which bloats the soundfont's file size and leads to inaccuracies.

 

I tried the previously linked soundfont and it does sound pretty close, but you can still tell the difference when it is compared directly with the SC-55 recordings.  In the intro music in DOOM II for example, there are some Synth Strings that play at the end and sustain for a bit--they make a sort of "growl"/sweep that then fades into a low drone.  With the soundfont however, the Synth Strings have obvious looping where you can hear that the same part of the sample keeps repeating.

Edited by TheUltimateDoomer666

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On 8/31/2019 at 4:06 PM, MaxRideWizardLord said:

 

I don't get it. So GS Wavetable Synth = is actually midi player? So, what soundfonts does it REALLY uses? Also, why can't I install MS's GS Wavetable Synth on android? I'm so confused right now.

 

All I want to find a way to make doom songs to play properly. To be precise, I want a soundfont and the midi player that can play that one song named "Short Circuit" from Hell Revealed 2's map09 like I've shown in the first video of this very thread's top. In order for me to achieve such thing, what would you recommend me to do in order to make my FluidSynth to play it properly on PC, and in order to make Delta-Touch'S GZDoom to play it properly on android?

No, the GS Wavetable Synth is a software synth, a program on your computer that loads a set of samples. The SC-55 is a hardware synth, a physical box that sits on your desk. It has samples in its onboard ROM but does a lot of processing that no soundfont can truly replicate. If you want true SC-55 music, you have to buy one (they're not cheap, they've been out of production for a long time, and most of the best examples on eBay ship from Japan) and run cables between it and your computer. I also mentioned the SC-88, which is a few years more recent has slightly higher sound quality, but is similar enough to the SC-55 that it will play almost all midis written for the SC-55 without sounding weird.

 

If you choose to get an SC-55, it does have a few limitations that a soft synth does not have, most notably in the number of parts a midi can have (16) and the number of notes that can play at once (24). Some very complex midis in recent mods may have more, and thus notes will be dropped in these midis. The SC-88 has higher limits. I do not recommend the SC-88 Pro or any of the later Sound Canvas models; they are much more expensive, and reproduce SC-55/Microsoft GS Synth midis much less faithfully.

Edited by Woolie Wool

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12 hours ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

I really doubt the person from sc55.duke4.net will bother to upload all of the music packs from all of the possible doom mods, for obvious reason.

Obviously not, but you can always try asking him (@MusicallyInspired) for a song or two.

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18 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

No, I didn't say that. But it does sound very similar. You will still hear differences, and some instruments won't be played the way they should.

 

18 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

Some instruments might be played differently.

 

Unfortunately that is true, I just tested captain claw with the soundfont you gave me, and the wind instruments sound like ass, which is weird because on GS Wavetable Synth it sound better. The music from the top of this thread, the Short Circuit from map09 of Hell Revealed, for some reason did sound worse on the soundfont you gave me than the original GS Wavetable Synth.

 

20 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

But most custom MIDIs that come with WADs and sound like crap with the standard soundfont will probably sound like crap with this one, too.

 

Unfortunatelly, this isn't entirely true. The reason I just stated above, I have no idea why though.

 

20 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

Windows 7 doesn't need the MIDIMapper since it already has one.

 

Hmm, well, I did install the MIDIMapper from the link you gave me anyway, I hope it does no harm.

 

20 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

Mapping means that one specific MIDI device is defined as the system's default MIDI device via the MIDI mapper. You can assign anything that can play MIDI to it.

 

Yeah I just found this, I guess when I installed both of these softwares + sountfont, it automatically changed the system's default MIDI device to the one you gave me, but I managed to find out where to change it back.

 

20 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

You can define more than one VMS. This is useful for having different configurations. You can then just switch the VMS instead of having to fiddle with one VMS's config every time you want to change something.

 

If I set multiple soundfonts, will I be able to see them all in GZDoom midi player selection in the sound menu?

 

20 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

It's not absolutely same-sounding, but it's very close to the hardware SC-55. It does sound worse in most cases, though, albeit not much.

 

Yeah, it did actually some of the silent sounds\notes from the original Doom that couldn't do the sound canvas, but unfortunately for some reason it play wind instruments rather bad as i've found out that after trying the Captain Claw made by the Monolith, and it also play same bugged part of Short Circuit for some reason... :c

 

If you know more soundfonts that are VERY close to original SC-55, please let me know.

 

21 hours ago, Get Phobo said:

Yes, you can load the soundfont with FluidSynth, too. You will need to copy it to the "soundfonts" folder in your GZDoom folder first, then specify it in the game's config menu for FluidSynth (under Sound options > Advanced options > Midi player options > FluidSynth > Select configuration).

 

Is there a way to copy the soundfont that Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth is using? I'd like to try the original soundfont given by Microsoft before using anything else. If you know how to get the original soundfont from Windows, please let me know how. I really want to try it out.

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2 hours ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

Is there a way to copy the soundfont that Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth is using? I'd like to try the original soundfont given by Microsoft before using anything else. If you know how to get the original soundfont from Windows, please let me know how. I really want to try it out.

It's gm.dls, located in C:\Windows\System32\drivers.  Gmreadme.txt has a description and copyright information for the sound set.

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2 hours ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

If I set multiple soundfonts, will I be able to see them all in GZDoom midi player selection in the sound menu?

If you copy them into GZDoom's "soundfonts" folder, then yes. You can also use them with Timidity++ that way.

 

2 hours ago, MaxRideWizardLord said:

If you know more soundfonts that are VERY close to original SC-55, please let me know.

Try this one. It's the Emperor's latest update, AFAIK. Sounds very nice.

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For the uninitiated (including myself), the world of Midi does seem to be a whole lot deeper and more complex than one would initially expect. 

 

It's amazing how a question as simple as "what do I need to do to get GZDoom to play MIDI files as accurately as possible?" has spawned this entire thread. 

 

Although, I can't help but wonder, if the objective is adjust GZDoom to play MIDIs as closely to how most people heard them back when they were released, is attempting to as perfectly as possible emulate the SC-55 sounds the wrong approach, given pretty much nobody who has ever played Doom has ever heard them? Yes Bobby Prince used an SC-55 to write the songs, but surely 99.9% of people who played Doom in the 90s wouldn't have heard it like that? Including the other MIDI writers of the time? This feels like chasing an experience that basically nobody actually had. 

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