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ReaperAA

What 10 maps would you remove from TNT Evilution?

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Posted (edited)

A recent thought just came across my mind. The thing about Evilution is that it has some really good maps and some really terrible maps (with most of stuff in between). I think that if it was constrained to 20-ish maps, it would have made a much better impression.

 

So tell me folks, what 10 maps (or less if 10 is too much) would u like to be removed so that TNT becomes much better. Mention map numbers if possible.

 

I would post my answer soon.

Edited by ReaperAA

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Most of the maps after MAP20 or so, can't be more exact than that at this time.

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10 Evilution maps  from worst to least worst

Mount Pain

Mill

Deepest Reaches

Administration Center

Metal

Baron's Den

Heck

River Styx

Habitat

Caribbean

 

I like these 2 maps less than Habbitat & Caribbean, but they are unique/gimmicky enough to keep in the game.

Last Call

Pharaoh

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Posted (edited)

OK so the 10 maps I would kick are:

 

Map 08: Metal

Map 12: Crater

Map 16: Deepest Reaches

Map 18: Mill

Map 21: Administration Center

Map 22: Habitat

Map 25: Baron's Den

Map 26: Ballistyx

Map 27: Mount Pain

Map 32: Caribbean

Edited by ReaperAA

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Wormhole, Metal, Habitat, Steel Works and Quarry. With Habitat having the lead by having 5 extra copies of it taking the remaining map removal positions.

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I love River Styx and Metal is ok, otherwise I agree with Jaws in Space. Pharaoh isn’t remarkable by modern standards, but the atmosphere and music lend so much to it as an experience. It’s iconic.

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35 minutes ago, Pegg said:

Wormhole, Metal, Habitat, Steel Works and Quarry. With Habitat having the lead by having 5 extra copies of it taking the remaining map removal positions.

Why would you want to remove Wormhole out of curiousity? It's one of the only TNT maps I really remember in a positive light.

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MAP 06 - Open Season [Maybe re-design rather than remove. Gameplay wise MAP06 is fairly fun.]

MAP 08 - Metal

MAP 20 - Central Processing

MAP 25 - Baron's Den

MAP 27 - Mount Pain (in the arse)

MAP 30 - Last Call

 

These are really the only god awful maps for TNT (again, minus the gameplay for MAP06).

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would definitely keep Wormhole, Crater, and even Dead Zone

 

I'd say Mount Pain, Admin Center, Metal, Mill, Lunar Mining Project, Baron's Den, Habitat, Pharoah, Steel Works, Prison

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So many people wanting to remove Mill D: it's one of the best from TNT. More polished compared to many other maps of the wad, and the last big fight is quite memorable.

There are few maps that I would really remove, each one is interesting in it's own way, and a something like Mount Pain despite it ssn't fun to play is something that I can admire for what it wanted to do. Here they are:

MAP08: Metal

MAP22: Habitat

MAP24: Quarry

MAP25: Baron's Den

MAP28: Heck

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I have a better idea based on this thread but for Final Doom & Master Levels..

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I would remove TNT Evilution and replace it with 32 maps flooded with AVs, Revs, and Chaingunners.

 

Honestly tho, thinking about cutting content from the game feels kinda wrong. While i'm not a big fan of TNT, it is definitely a historical document and should remain untouched. That being said, fuck Mount Pain.

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Posted (edited)

River Styx is way too cool to be removed even if the gameplay isn't that great. Same goes for Crater, so many cool and interesting areas to explore in that map.

 

I would remove :

 

  • MAP10: Redemption. Yes I know it was made by Tom Mustaine who made some pretty good maps throughout and Redemption is pretty small and inoffensive but also rather generic. Nothing memorable and pretty straightforward in terms of gameplay. It's not a bad map by any stretch of imagination but I would remove it for being a filler map. It has a great track though.
  • MAP22: Habitat. I always tried to give Habitat a chance, revisiting it throughout the years and experiencing it over and over again and I can't really give it a pass. It's just too weird and not fun to play in any way, shape or form. RIP.
  • MAP25: Baron's Den. The only thing I like about this level is the title.
  • MAP26: Ballistyx. I never really liked that map. It's cramped and linear and it has way too many hallways. I could live happily without it in my Final Doom.
  • MAP28: Heck. Basically an intersection which spread into various rip-offs of previously made maps. Yuck.

 

Anything else I don't mind.

Edited by Uni

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, glyphic said:

Why would you want to remove Wormhole out of curiousity? It's one of the only TNT maps I really remember in a positive light.

 

The side the player spawns on is extremely dull, the area in between has nothing but boring corridors. That's how the map goes for most people who don't bother finding the 2nd timeline. Which still can't make up for it imo. 

 

The again i'd rather it and habitat just get spiced up (well habitat needs much more work). If modification is an option only map I'd remove is quarry. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Xaser said:

Administration Center - Ditto. The end section looks pretty dated by today's standards, but try playing that scene in Chocolate Doom -- at the lower resolution, that bigass structure looks imposing as fuck. Good stuff.

 

Bonus skill 6: try in DOSBox without strafing nor running, 40 degrees and 2 hours of sleep. 

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Mill is awesome. So is Mt. Pain.

 

But yes, you can cut Habitat. No way I could think of nine more. Maybe Open Season. Baron's Den. Power Control. Hanger. But pretty soon after you start getting into the good stuff.

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Posted (edited)
  1. MAP07: Prison
    • It just felt way too big and simplistic to me. Boxy, boring, bland. Almost the entire map feels like it was designed in Wolf3D mode. Seriously, go look at that map image on Doom Wiki. The real one, not that fake wikia bullshit.
  2. MAP10: Redemption
    • Personally, I don't have anything against this level. The problem is that it's just so... nondescript and over in a flash. It feels like a filler level, something made to pad out the WAD to 32 maps. The level itself is more than competent enough. Personally I'd have put this as one of the earlier levels, maybe, and swapped perhaps something like Wormhole over to this slot. For you to have some fairly big levels before then and then shrink back down to this feels strange.
  3. MAP12: Crater
    • Thematically and in terms of idea potential, this is definitely up there. I have a love-hate relationship with this map; it does some things really damn well, but then there's just so much goddamned running down long hallways. It's in a weird spot of not bad enough to outright hate, but not quite good enough, IMO, to keep as-is. Tighten this up a bit and it's a real keeper.
  4. MAP16: Deepest Reaches
    • It felt hot and cold. It had some good elements (I agree with Xaser), but also some that just felt thrown together or just plain obtuse. Could've used more cohesion in its encounters, since by and large it honestly felt more like a proto-Hexen map to me.
  5. MAP21: Administration Center
    • Do you like maps that alternate between long hallways and huge rooms that seemingly have nothing to do with being an actual administration center? Then this is the map for you! Tom Mustaine did it right in MAP17: Processing Area, but Drake O'Brien was better off spending his time creating future descendants for Deep Space Nine. The outside part of the map is about the only part that gets a little interesting. Plus it has "Into Sandy's City," which is what good maps put on when they want to be put out of their misery.
  6. MAP22: Habitat
    • Clearly we know what map inspired SLIGE. Chris Buteau at least got better by the time of Icarus: Alien Vanguard, but this map is just full of nope. Not even Tom Mustaine music can save this one. Yellow keycard trap is nicely done though.
  7. MAP24: Quarry
    • Was this really necessary after MAP23: Lunar Mining Project did basically the same theme (and better)? Feels like this was more a slot in need of a map more than a map in need of this slot.
  8. MAP25: Baron's Den
    • This is a weird case. I don't actually hate the map in pieces, but as a sum, it's actually rather disappointing and directionless. I also expected a hell of a lot more Baron action than it gives (you don't even really fight any until you're almost at the end); there's almost as many Pain Elementals and Arachnotrons as there are Barons. Hell Knights are missing entirely as well, which is absolutely stupefying to me, since you'd think in a den of Barons there'd be SOME goddamned Hell Knights! Adding a few of those, paring back some other baddies, and making it all about novel encounters with the titular Barons could've made this map a treat.
  9. MAP26: Ballistyx
    • Or as I like to call it, "Ballisux." Take all the cramped, nondescript aspects of MAP16: Deepest Reaches but make an entire map out of them, then give it the same homogenous and semi-aimless feeling of MAP22: Habitat. That's Ballistyx. Also loses points for not being all that ballistic at all - when 2/3rds of your UV monster count is Imps and Shotgun Guys, that's not exactly stuff you need to hold down the trigger for most of the time. The name is about the only thing worthwhile here, and it should've really gone on some other map that's actually fast-paced action.
  10. MAP27: Mount Pain
    • I feel like a more appropriate MIDI would've been Huey Lewis and the News' "Hip to Be Square." Almost all the angles are on the outside area, and the rest of it is a giant hallway and huge room romp. The great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather of Chief O'Brien is 0/2.

And here's a few I'd explicitly NOT remove that seem to pop up fairly often on the "remove these maps" list:

  1. MAP04: Wormhole
    • Hell no, Wormhole shouldn't go ANYWHERE. Well, maybe it should've had a later spot. And made use of some bigger and nastier baddies (especially Hell Knights/Barons, and maybe a gaggle of Arachnotrons/a Mastermind) to better delineate the light/dark aspects of it. And made the dark side much easier to find. But otherwise this is a great level. Screw all y'all haters.
  2. MAP08: Metal
    • Yeah, I said it. Come at me. Mind you, Metal isn't perfect - the opening section is the drizzling shits, by and large it's boxy as hell, and that end room/arena DEFINITELY needed a better mechanic than "sit and wait for all these goddamn lifts." But the fight itself is one of your first really large-scale fights in this WAD, and it feels like it could be thematically neat if given a makeover. Essentially, tighten up the end room, make the start areas a little more interesting, and Metal ain't half-bad.
  3. MAP18: Mill
    • An absolute clusterfuck of visual styles, yes. Is it too big for its own good, perhaps. But the gameplay and encounters are pretty damn solid. IMO it needs more thematic consistency, but this is not a bad map.
Edited by Dark Pulse

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  • Metal.
  • Administration Center.
  • Shipping/Respawning.
  • Mount Pain.
  • Deepest Reaches.
  • Dead Zone.
  • Baron's Den.
  • Ballistyx.
  • Habitat.
  • Caribbean.

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Its always depressing when everyone shits on your favourite maps in TNT without exception.

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Carribean

Quarry

Mill

Ballystix

Pharoah

Steel Works

Power Control

Shipping/Respawning

Open Season

Heck

 

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1 hour ago, Devalaous said:

Its always depressing when everyone shits on your favourite maps in TNT without exception.

One man's shit is another man's sceptre.

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Yeah, I'm a bit surprised by the anti-Caribbean sentiment as well.

 

Anyway, that being said, I actually like Mount Pain and it's probably one of my favorite maps from the worst half of the package. That's one map I'd never cut.

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Hard time to find or maybe not, because everything is memorable and I have a strange love for TNT evilution, especially for maps I know everyone hates because they look garish but I just like something about their unique design.

 

6, 7, 8, 14, 15, 18, 19, 20, 21, 27

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15 hours ago, Xaser said:

There's a few other commonly-disliked ones that IMO don't deserve the axe, so in the interest of being Mr. Positive for a bit, here's a few of these and why I'd keep 'em:

  • Central Processing - Bit rough in spots, but feels like a grand adventure. The barbed wire section at the end is iconic, even though the texture kinda sucks. :P
  • Administration Center - Ditto. The end section looks pretty dated by today's standards, but try playing that scene in Chocolate Doom -- at the lower resolution, that bigass structure looks imposing as fuck. Good stuff.
  • Deepest Reaches - Sue me, maybe, but I love this one. The cave-y bits are not pretty, but the "buried underground ruins" vibe really works here.
  • Crater - Another one for the "weird, but fun to explore" pile. Progression here is very strange, but that adds to the charm, IMO. That semi-secret water passage that lets you sneak around to the other side of the map is a cool touch.
  • Heck - Fun as hell; it's basically a Plutonia teaser. Not as fancy as the rest, but gameplay keeps it afloat.
  • Mill - OK, this is simply one of the best maps in the entire wad; y'all are nuts. :P -- I mostly just want to mention it because for a long while, hated it. I was sick the very first time I played the map, and for years I was stuck with a poor impression if it 'cause of that. Finally dispelled it when I finally decided to replay the wad; the Casalis are wizards.

Glad to see some love for MAP20-21 too, you have a very good taste Xaser. Heck is allright and fun to play but at the same it's very uninspired. For similar reasons I can understand why some people don't find Redemption so interesting, I think that's a sweet and short level that wouldn't feel out of place in Scythe.

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