What's the best map-editing program for a newbie looking to make a (relatively) simple map?

[Unreason]

   Hello, everyone!  I'm Unreason, I've been playing Doom for a decade or so, and I've finally decided I want to try tinkering with making a map.  I went and found Linguica's [Vanilla Level Editing] Lesson 1: Preliminary Reconnaissance thread, where Linguica recommends GZDoom Builder.  When I follow the link, I get a forum post where the "easy" link to a version of GZDB is broken, and the working link is this: https://devbuilds.drdteam.org/doombuilder2-gzdb/

 

   Should I just grab the most recent file there and see what happens, or is there a different path I should follow?  Is there some more up-to-date program?  All guidance will be gratefully accepted, I don't actually know what I'm doing here...

[Gez]

I'd suggest going for https://devbuilds.drdteam.org/gzdbbf/ instead.

 

Alternatively, you can try DBX or SLADE 3.

[Bauul]

I might personally suggest you start with Doom Builder X.

 

Both it and GZDoomBuilder are based on the older Doom Builder 2, and while GZDB has more features, it's also a little more overwhelming for new mappers. Doom Builder X is a little simpler, so for getting your head around the basics of Doom mapping it's a solid place to start.

[Unreason]

Thank you both for the responses.  Do these editors have node builders included?

[DynamiteKaitorn]

As far as I know, yes. In fact I think in the case of GZDBBF you can select from a few different types of node builders.

[Gez]

The DB editors come bundled with a few nodebuilders that are configured by default. SLADE AFAIK doesn't so you have to configure the nodebuilder you want to use inside of it.

[Unreason]

I noticed that the buttons Reference Manuel and About this Editing Mode under the Help menu in Doom Builder X don't seem to do anything when clicked.  Can anyone shed any light on that?

[Unreason]

   I've already run into some sort of problem.  So I made a big empty room with a pillar and a player one start in it, then saved it as a wad.  Then closed DBX.  Then tried to run the wad in GZDoom.  And I got Entryway.  So I reopened DBX, and went to open my wad, and got this:

 

Spoiler

 

   Apparently it doesn't remember the game configuration or resource, and when I re-add those things it still doesn't show a map for me to select.  It's as if the wad exists, but is empty.

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

   I thought I followed Linguica's instructions pretty closely.  I'm bewildered.  No idea what I might have done wrong...

Edited August 30, 2019 by Unreason : Spoilered the images.

[Bauul]

Hmm, that does look strange. Have you definitely installed DBX to a place on your harddrive that you have full read/write access to? It does look like it didn't save properly for whatever reason. 

 

For the record you don't need to close DBX to test your map. If you have GZDoom set up in the Configuration menu under Tools, you can test the map by just hitting the green "play" button on the menubar at the top.

 

If you think you might have more questions and want faster responses, I'd strongly suggest joining a Doom mapping Discord channel. My two go-to places for mapping support are Jimmy's Joy of Mapping server  or Dragonfly's Doomworks server. You'll find loads of people in both who enjoy helping people get better at mapping.

[Unreason]

   Thank you for the Discord suggestion!  I'll maybe drop in on them and see if they feel like helping a poor clueless soul out.  As far as read-write permission, I *think* I should have full permissions, DBX is just installed in a folder on my desktop.  Guess I'll try uninstalling it and reinstalling it, maybe in a different spot, to see if that helps.

[Kappes Buur]

8 hours ago, Unreason said:

  

 

   I thought I followed Linguica's instructions pretty closely.  I'm bewildered.  No idea what I might have done wrong...

 

The message is correct, you have to let the editor know which pwad and which map you want to edit.

 

Spoiler

 

[edit]

On second glance it looks like that you are loading Hello World.wad, which does not contain a map or you used a different map format when you made the map. How did you set up the editor in Game Configurations (F6)? In both, Resources and Testing?

 

http://www.doombuilder.com/index.php?p=tutorials

 

Open Hello World.wad in Slade3 and see what lumps it contains. For example:

 

Spoiler

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Kappes Buur

[Unreason]

   So I just grabbed the new version of DBX from Anotak that he dropped a little bit ago, opened it up, made a big empty room with a player start using Doom 2 as the game configuration and resource, then set the Doom 2 wad as a resource under game configurations.

 

Spoiler

 

I saved the map.  It saved.  Then I hit save a second time and this happened:

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

   I reopened DBX and got this:

 

Spoiler

 

   I had to manually reselect and re-add the game configuration and resource, and it still doesn't see any map.  I have no idea what's happening. :(

[Misty]

One part of my mind says, that you shouldn't put builder in main disk where system is and other part tags @anotak to look at "unhappy error" in spoilers.

Also, I suggest save maps in different folder than builder is, check if you have node builder set up, placed player and so on... Once you saved map and if didn't crashed - make a backup copy manually. 

[Kappes Buur]

1 hour ago, Unreason said:

I had to manually reselect and re-add the game configuration and resource, and it still doesn't see any map.  I have no idea what's happening. :(

 

Read Prerequisites for running on the github page.

In particular the spiel about SlimDX.

 

Just to clarify, the Setup folder mentioned is not the Setup folder of the github page but the Setup folder in the installed editor.

 

Also my tutorial might help somewhat.

 

You may be mapping for the vanilla DOOM2 format right now, but, if you stick with it you will sooner or later want to create some maps with more contents and then having started with GZDoom Builder - Bugfix will come in really handy.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Kappes Buur

[Mr.Rocket]

Yeah I'd start fresh..

Also as Kappes Buur suggested..

 

I suggest using a source port also and copy n paste your doom2.wad over to that port location so you won't have to locate your steam version. and who knows if that steam iwad is in the middle of an integrity check or something..

Use something like chocolate doom or maybe zdoom, gzdoom, for starters.

Otherwise you'd end up having to use DOSBox conf in your steam location, which Doom Builder wouldn't know what to do with. ~ you'd end up having to modify your DOSBox conf manually just to run and test your map. So again I suggest using a source port, at least for now. ~ you can worry about vanilla doom editing later, once your editor is (setup, an working) heh.

 

 

: ok I had to do it..

So, lets setup that source ports..

We downloaded Gzdoom, extracted it and placed our Doom2.wad in its working directory..

(ran it and tested it, all's good.) Yes, No? 

Hopefully, Yes.. it's like a 99% deal from this point...

 

I don't edit much but when I do I drink wisobbies.. or something..

No, I'v been map editing for years off and on but actually never released much...a few things.. cough..

I currently have GZDB as my editor, not saying that one editor is better than the rest, nothing like that, this is just what I'm using..

 

::

Nvl, it works, and we'll say I have a primary doom port/engine setup to use to test my map in DB.. in this case, GZdoom.. 

So, Doom resource wad for Gzdoom will be Doom2.wad.. to test with we use Gzdoom.. with the default BSP..

So, after GZDB loads up I'll select: 

(( Tools>Game Configurations>Resources>Gzdoom: Doom2 (in Doom Format) ))

Add Resource> Gzdoom directory>Doom2.wad as the WAD..Which would be located in your Gzdoom dir..

 

Next we'll select what we plan to test the map with:

Testing> select the engine location: eg C:\Games\gzdoom\gzdoom.exe

Then Ok it..

 

Now that that's done, lets create a new map.

File>New Map..

When a new map is selected, there will be many options of which format the project will be under. In this case we'll select GZdoom in Doom2 format..

 

Select:

(( Gzdoom: Doom2 (in Doom format) ))

And DB will need to know where the Iwad is located for the project resource.. in this case it will be in the Gzdoom directory, which we previously tested..

At this point you should be able to just select Ok.. as these options have already been added..

 

 

Now you should finally have a blank grid area in which to create your map.. 

Now make that test Room.. with a player start in it, and save it.. 

It will likely save in your Gzdoom directory..

You can also test it by clicking on the > Test Map button.

::

 

 

There shouldn't be any problems from this point forward..

Always save your map, save your map progress, save your map as a new name.. save your map and back it up..

Save save save..

 

 

 

Teh above can be revised with several different source port variants and game configurations/resources depending on the project objective.. 

Cheers..

 

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Mr.Rocket

[Unreason]

   Alright, update time.  I now have GZDoom Builder Bugfix.  I can make a test map, and hit the save button as many times in a row as I like without crashing, and I can reopen GZDB and actually see my wad and map.  However:

 

Spoiler

 

   Um.  This happens when I try to run my test map in GZDoom through the test function.  "Could not find map MAP00".  Uh, what?

[Khorus]

For nodebuilding purposes, it's best to have 2 sectors before trying to test or save the map. If that doesn't work, go to edit -> map options and check the level name there.

[Mr.Rocket]

34 minutes ago, Unreason said:

  This happens when I try to run my test map in GZDoom through the test function.  "Could not find map MAP00".  Uh, what?

Really? 

Whats the dialog say when you load the map in the editor?

MAP01?

Are you selecting MAP01?

 

Is it showing a selection for MAP00?

if so, there may be a MAP00 in the map header or a MAPINFO involved..

Can you upload the pwad so we can take a look? 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Mr.Rocket

[boris]

37 minutes ago, Unreason said:

   Alright, update time.  I now have GZDoom Builder Bugfix.  I can make a test map, and hit the save button as many times in a row as I like without crashing, and I can reopen GZDB and actually see my wad and map.  However:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

   Um.  This happens when I try to run my test map in GZDoom through the test function.  "Could not find map MAP00".  Uh, what?

You're using a configuration that doesn't support arbitrary map names. Use the format MAPxx, not HLLOWRLD.

[Mr.Rocket]

Oh.. thanks Boris.. I see that in his previous post now..lol ;)

Yeah.. it would likely be best to create a new map with the defaults MAP01.

Though, a -warp MAP00 in the command line args should actually run the map.. lets stick to the basics. :P

Edited August 31, 2019 by Mr.Rocket

[Unreason]

   Thanks for all the help, everyone!  Changed the name to MAP01, works fine now!  Alright, I'm gonna maybe call all this stops for a day or three, I'm probably gonna be doing life stuff, we'll see.  But I'm definitely gonna keep messing around, following tutorials and seeing what's possible.  I'll drop a line if something comes up I need help with technically.  If it's some sort of design question I might ask in one of the Discord servers instead.  Thanks again!

[portable refrigerator]

i can give you the zip for it right here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2guhidmme67omvi/GZDoom_Builder_Bugfix-r3074-x64.zip/file

just download and unzip

 

[zen4040]

man reading this thread makes me wish I could go back in time and make my first maps again for the first time