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galileo31dos01

[Limit-Removing] Parallels - Single map

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Finally a Galileo map. Definitely something I've been curious about for a while now. Will play this after dinner tonight and post a few thoughts on it. As a minor recommendation, replace the "0" at the end of the link with a "1". ;-)

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1 hour ago, GarrettChan said:

Galileo put out his map! Want to record a video for this. How long will it approximately take to finish?

It's not very long, but it's kinda "gimmicky" in that finding your way around may not be very straight forward.

 

So, visually this one is neat. It doesn't take long to see what you mean by "atmosphere", and I'll put the rest in spoilers I guess.... :P

 

Spoiler

Anyway, cute little map with a nice gimmick. I would have probably liked it better if I didn't have to use my pistol as a flashlight to find key locked doors, but it wasn't a big deal. Distributing the viles around the room so they can be heard is also a neat move.

 

What's a bit more tricky than finding doors in pitch darkness is fighting the cyberdemon, because it's really easy to bump into one of the slightly asymmetrically placed pillars while dodging the rockets, and consequentially failing a critical dodge in a situation that offers little leeway to compensate for hugging a pillar. It's one thing to dodge cybers "by ear", it's another to make dodging difficult with obstacles that aren't very visible. Adding to the scenario is also the problem that the cyb rockets can detonate at a pillar, meaning it's very hard to estimate just how far from the explosion players will be, even if the dodging itself was successful. If the cyb can be made to infight on the other hand, it's basically a "free" encounter, assuming one does find the BFG in that room. For these reasons it feels a bit like a "hit or miss scenario", that I think would work out more consistently if at least the pillars were visible, so that a sense of orientation is easier to maintain. And that would be pretty much my only gripe with regards to gameplay, for that matter.

 

Let's talk "tech". I cracked it open in DBX to have a look around, and I noticed you use a soundtunnel to "arm" the SSG ambush. Normally I wouldn't say much about this, other than it being an outdated way to arm teleport traps, but this case presents an issue: I can easily grab the SSG for free if I don't shoot in the first room, because that's from where the trap gets "armed". A possible solution for vanilla mapping would be to place the teleport closet nearer to the SSG, and hide all the monsters far away behind a midtexture, so that they will have line of sight on the player when they enter that room (You could also do that trick anywhere else in the map, so long as it's certain that the player will get spotted). You may need to work out how to place the monsters to prevent them from infighting, and it would also require that you build the barriers such that monsters don't "shoot into the map", but it wouldn't be sound dependent anymore, and therefore grabbing the SSG would always result in an ambush.

 

Besides these two "points" a very nice first map. Looking forward to what's next. Good job.

 

Edited by Nine Inch Heels

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39 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

It's not very long, but it's kinda "gimmicky" in that finding your way around may not be very straight forward.

I hope my little brain can handle this then ;P  Will read the comments later after I play it.

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Cool little map. I was a little surprised at the mirror image of the same area (Tech versus hell) and then I realised the map was probably called parallels for a reason >.<. I struggled with the dark a little, but that's probably the intention.

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weee feedback! thank you people!

 

 

@GarrettChan Takes me 7 minutes without secrets though with all kills maybe over 10, that if you happen to find out where they are (;

 

@Nine Inch Heels Well there's another one in the process you'll see soon :P. I might as well put my answer to your answer in spoilers:

 

Spoiler
2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I would have probably liked it better if I didn't have to use my pistol as a flashlight to find key locked doors, but it wasn't a big deal.

 

Might be one of those "because I made it I know exactly where everything is" cases, for which I could put some light sources there. I figured players would explore around at the start and then remember where the keyed doors are, but by watching Magicana's video it seems easy to forget after the power cut. Will wait for it.

 

2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

What's a bit more tricky than finding doors in pitch darkness is fighting the cyberdemon, because it's really easy to bump into one of the slightly asymmetrically placed pillars while dodging the rockets, and consequentially failing a critical dodge in a situation that offers little leeway to compensate for hugging a pillar. It's one thing to dodge cybers "by ear", it's another to make dodging difficult with obstacles that aren't very visible. Adding to the scenario is also the problem that the cyb rockets can detonate at a pillar, meaning it's very hard to estimate just how far from the explosion players will be, even if the dodging itself was successful.

 

Was reading this while thinking of adding more light sources and moving the pillars to be symmetrical until I read this bit:

 

2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

If the cyb can be made to infight on the other hand, it's basically a "free" encounter, assuming one does find the BFG in that room.

 

You did find the power switch, didn't you? D: 

In case not then I may have to guide the player better to it, while also the thing with the pillars sounds reasonable regardless of the light issue, because that fight was not meant to be dealt in pitch darkness. You could also coax the baron and hell knight to distract the cyber if you find the way around. But I need to know whether you turned the lights on because that is crucial :S

 

2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Let's talk "tech". I cracked it open in DBX to have a look around, and I noticed you use a soundtunnel to "arm" the SSG ambush. Normally I wouldn't say much about this, other than it being an outdated way to arm teleport traps, but this case presents an issue: I can easily grab the SSG for free if I don't shoot in the first room, because that's from where the trap gets "armed". A possible solution for vanilla mapping would be to place the teleport closet nearer to the SSG, and hide all the monsters far away behind a midtexture, so that they will have line of sight on the player when they enter that room (You could also do that trick anywhere else in the map, so long as it's certain that the player will get spotted). You may need to work out how to place the monsters to prevent them from infighting, and it would also require that you build the barriers such that monsters don't "shoot into the map", but it wouldn't be sound dependent anymore, and therefore grabbing the SSG would always result in an ambush.

 

Yeah I'm aware of that, even used it to my advantage while testing sometimes, though not an excuse for it. I read that merging sectors is another alternative in case one wants sound to be the alert, but I'll work around the idea you proposed, seems not hard at all. Besides it's a map where pacifist would be a headache.

 

Really appreciate your words <3

 

@Magicana Thanks for the video, that was fun to watch!. I see that progression can be obscure at times, both literally and metaphorically, which is on purpose. You found the switch in the BFG room quickly so that gives me hopes that the overall setup is at least solid enough. I do wonder whether the final archvile ambush was a bit too frustrating in that environment, I certainly struggled but decided to leave it as it is and read opinions.

 

 

So, I will make an update once I get more responses, with all the feedback taken into account. 

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3 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

You did find the power switch, didn't you?

Nope... did it "blind"

 

4 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

I read that merging sectors is another alternative in case one wants sound to be the alert, but I'll work around the idea you proposed, seems not hard at all.

Yeah merging sectors would work instead of sound tunnels, especially in maps with several closed off rooms which you can "link" to the closets with merged sectors. Unfortunately not feasible in this case though.

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6 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Nope... did it "blind"

 

Hmm, I feared that could happen. There's an arrow pointing the switch not too far from the entrance. 

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The screenshot in the OP speaks to me on a spiritual level. Gonna be playing this one shortly!

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Fun map, a very good "first" map and the music is really fitting, specially for the latter part. Only issue i had with your map was the cyberdemon room but that was my fault, i didn't saw the telltale arrow to the light switch, and felt really stupid when i found it after dying so many times in the dark stumbling against pillars or other monsters while trying to dodge rockets and find more cells.

 

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@galileo31dos01Actually got rekted by your map. Can you tell me how to find the secrets? It seems your demo desynced with CrispyDoom and PrBoom+. I have something to write after thoroughly looking at the map. Sorry for my low IQ not figuring out the stuff.

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@GarrettChan No worries, skills were implemented so don't hesitate on trying a lower one, changes are in specific enemy placements and more powerful health (e.g. no sneaky imps in the BFG room, a blue armor instead of green, less archviles, etc). The demo not working is a bummer, I'll try to record a new one later, once there's nothing else I'll do to the map. Hints for secrets:

 

Spoiler

Two of them are in the corrupted dimension (red), there's one hidden path which is hinted by a light source, and the other is tricky to spot but if you're looking for something to read you'll see it (; 

Third should be easy-going if you found the second, just a "snack" from Going Down's map 05.

Finally there's the unofficial secret which I don't expect anyone to find on a first try, specially now that I know one of the hints isn't visible as I intended. It's related to an archvile-jump to one particular square. In a future update I'll fix that. 

 

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@lirui1001 Yeah that's the intercept overflow bug mentioned in the OP, which seems to be random in crispy and prb+. Make sure to disable the bug in prb+, there's an option in General you'll see in the fifth or so page. You also reminded me to report that to Fabian.

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20 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

(something to read)

OK I found it. I guess the only left is that easter egg. I notice the up and down arrow, so I guess something to do inside the yellow door room? Since you lock it after leaving... it's sort of suspicious but I can't actually check. I know difficulty is implemented, but still getting rekt is a way to get good  ;P

 

13 minutes ago, lirui1001 said:

I dunno why but I met a huge glitch. You can check the demo below.

That means you don't read things ;P

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5 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

I notice the up and down arrow

 

Spoiler

That's "AV" for archvile, not that the letter A is too obvious, yeah will revise that hehe :p

 

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Monsters at sectors 98 and 24 are stuck, since they use the same difficulty setting.

Plasma cells but no plasma gun

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9 minutes ago, hawkwind said:

Monsters at sectors 98 and 24 are stuck, since they use the same difficulty setting.

 

Huh, was so sure I fixed that before. Addressed that for the next update, which will be tomorrow, thanks for pointing it.

 

9 minutes ago, hawkwind said:

Plasma cells but no plasma gun

 

There's a BFG. You have to find the power switch first to spot it.

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My play is very sloppy. Even though I said I don't really like the gameplay, it doesn't mean the map is not good. I'm going to bed soon. I'll write something tomorrow. I hope we're still friends ;P

Edited by GarrettChan

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@galileo31dos01Does it work now? I am supposed to click unlisted, but for some reason I clicked private. I wanted to put up the blind playthrough video, but later I feel dumb because there are 20 minutes I'm just pressing around.

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@GarrettChan Thank you for the playthrough, enjoyed watching you figure strats and ways to cheese fights:

 

Spoiler

The SSG ambush is set to have "randomized" teleportations, meaning what spawns first and where is according to how monsters find their way out of the sector, so for example that you get only imps for a while is possible and much easier to skip. Originally the teleportation spots were a bit behind but they wouldn't spread as quick as desired, so that stays untouched.

 

The BFG room has many solutions, assuming you turned lights on prior to doing anything. The low cell ammo count plus archviles fading out previously are to communicate how to use it efficiently, with shells for backup, though it's essential to stay where's visible. Using the baron and HK as shields is viable, or just the UV HK to distract the cyber meanwhile you get the BFG, or you can grab the key and leave asap since the door will be closed. The UV imps are my douche maneuver like ChannelGorf would call, because they sneak up on you when you least expect it :P

 

The best to do is leave just one archvile alive, it's a tricky jump so you're not expected to do it obligatorily. Finally the crushers for the nazi soldiers are the way to dispatch them, because it would be a waste to shoot them one by one, so everything is intentional. 

 

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My thoughts

 

Spoiler

Design wise:

 

I really like maps with multiple dimensions with similar room design but different themes. That's why I like really Wormhole from TNT: Evilution and Wormhell from THT: Threnody. The first time I took the teleporter, I immediately realize this just by looking the red stairs. It's sort of sad that there is no inter-dimension reference for the moment (for example, you get a hint that there's a secret in dim 1, and you can search in dim 2), but probably that's for my own map. ;P

 

The spooky feeling is real, with nice music choice to fit the ambiance. Even there's no monster ambush after turning off the light, I'm just paranoid that something will pop up around the corner or behind a certain pillar to ambush me. I would say this is a very successful design because I think that's your intention. Generally I don't like spooky feeling, but I won't deny this is such a good design for just stock resources.

 

Details, details, details! The red dimension is my favorite in this map. There are so many little details put into it. That broken door with the eye of IoS is my favorite design in the red dimension. I would say it's not very intuitive that the correct way is to go behind the bloodfall. I thought I found a secret when I went through that. Probably I'm too naive.

 

Battle wise:

 

The Cyberdemon fight is quite hard in my opinion. Yeah, you need to rely on hearing to fight him because he's not visible all the time. The room is in perfect size that you're really not comfortable to perform the 2-shot BFG trick, nor you can reliable dodge his rockets. I agree with Heel's view that at least the pillars are visible, which will make it more reasonable I guess. That's why my instinct is to use the Baron as a meat shield instead of actually fighting the Cyberdemon face to face.

 

The Arch-vile fight is also intense since you can't see anything unless Arch-vile is lit up when she's charging. The problem for now is that players will feel fear about the Arch-viles and they will kill them according to the instinct, and this will miss out the non official secret you're talking about. Therefore, I guess there should be a more visible hint or a slower start that the player can prepare for that (eg: Arch-viles spawn one by one with 3 seconds between). You've said you'll going to rework the hint, so let's see at that time.

 

Resource wise:

 

I think the map gives you enough health/armor to work with, so that's fine. Ammo wise, I think maybe just one box of bullet will make me feel better? It's a little bit tight for a blind playthrough.

 

Overall, I would say this is a greatlileo (that totally doesn't work, I apologize) first map. I really can't wait for your other maps.

 

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Your map looks fun! I can't find a way to get the yellow key, but probably because I'm just dumb as hell (or maybe it's something with my zdoom). I will play again on Crispy later on, paying more attention as well.
 

21 hours ago, Magicana said:

 I struggled with the dark a little, but that's probably the intention.

Lighting is a lot better on software mode

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14 minutes ago, Noiser said:

Your map looks fun! I can't find a way to get the yellow key, but probably because I'm just dumb as hell (or maybe it's something with my zdoom). I will play again on Crispy later on, paying more attention as well.

 

Spoiler

There's a switch somewhere around the SSG fight. < Or maybe if you can't find the SSG fight, it's behind a bloodfall.

 

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Updated to 1.1, link in the OP.

 

Spoiler

- Expanded the light sector in the BFG room. Now it's easier to see the pillars, plus the arrow doesn't blink anymore.
- Fixed stuck enemies on lower skills.
- Added light sources to the keyed doors.
- Raised brightness in the tunnel in the SSG area from 64 to 80 (should be okay now), plus a hint to communicate what the switch affects.
- Made a hint for the easter egg more discernible.
- Redone the method for the SSG ambush, now they teleport by seeing the player.
- Fixed minor texture misalignments.
- Added block lines on the blood watering from the skulls' eyes.

 

 

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Potential showstopper ...

 

In the unlikely event that the player does not cross line 423 and walks back to sector 22 and door sector 26 has closed, the player cannot exit, since door sector 28 cannot be opened. Simple solution is to make sector 26 either DR or Door open stay.

 

... sorry about the cells thing. I forgot about the BFG.

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Neat map. Aesthetically, I'm reminded as much of Obsidian's stuff as of Going Down. Overall, there are lots of cool little ideas here, and not much fluff -- a rare sort of map I'd like to see more of.

 

I did a casual playthrough. The skin/blood fight has an inelegant way of making it pretty easy not to die, which is to hold out at one of the corners as long as possible, which I show. I leave monsters behind at the start only because I was in the mood to fight them upon return in pitch-blackness. Hard to dislike getting to two-shot a cyb. The viles at the end are pretty fun too.

 

p11_cpt.zip

Edited by rdwpa

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