Doom Zero - launch (and celebrating 25 years of Doom II)

[SoDOOManiac]

I updated my gameplay mods to be compatible with Doom Zero:

The fast & furious STROOM 2 and 2fast, 2furious LEADSTORM :)

[DASI-I]

On 10/5/2019 at 3:12 AM, Grazza said:

There are freely-available patches to upgrade between each of the versions.

 

On 10/5/2019 at 3:24 AM, Zaratul said:

http://doomgate.de/files/duub/index.html

Here, catch!

 

Nah, don't worry, guys. I didn't waste money since the bundle also came with ultimate doom and the master levels (which I didn't have).

[Paul814]

@DASI-I Wow i am over halfway through this wad and I am enjoying it very much. I found one of the secret levels, so far this is an awesome nod to the 25th anniversary of Doom II! Excited to see how this wad ends! Thanks for creating this incredible experience!👏🏼

[diosoth]

Smooth Doom has issues. One of the Caco's gib pieces temp becomes one of those eye candles with green circle, and this is the plasma rifle... switching to the Doom 64 set causes it to flash frames between D64's plasma and the intended one- and the D64 rocket launcher stays vanilla.

 

[SoDOOManiac]

38 minutes ago, diosoth said:

Smooth Doom has issues.

Author's comment: (WARNING!: Not compatible with any other mods, such as Brutal Doom, Beautiful Doom, etc. These will have the unfortunate effect of erasing the new content, such as the new Boss and Monster)

 

My gameplay mods STROOM 2 and LEADSTORM provide quicker -> smoother weapon handling being compatible with Doom Zero.

[DASI-I]

4 hours ago, diosoth said:

Smooth Doom has issues. One of the Caco's gib pieces temp becomes one of those eye candles with green circle, and this is the plasma rifle... switching to the Doom 64 set causes it to flash frames between D64's plasma and the intended one- and the D64 rocket launcher stays vanilla.

 

 

As Zodomaniac has pointed out: I already said in the first post that Doom Zero is NOT compatible with ANY other mods like Smooth Doom, Brutal Doom, etc. The reason for that is because there are sprites that are modified that will clash horribly with other mods that also modify the sprites.

[DASI-I]

3 hours ago, Zodomaniac said:

My gameplay mods STROOM 2 and LEADSTORM provide quicker -> smoother weapon handling being compatible with Doom Zero.

 

I forgot to ask: Did your mod replace anything else other than the weapons, like the decorations, icon of sin, etc?

[SoDOOManiac]

39 minutes ago, DASI-I said:

I forgot to ask: Did your mod replace anything else other than the weapons, like the decorations, icon of sin, etc?

 

No, nothing. I even included two LEADSTORM version in the archive: with changed and unchanged SS enemy.

[NightFright]

Something to consider for the next version:

I have taken a look inside of the wad and saw that apparently there are many duplicate/identical sprites from the original Doom 1+2 iwads without any visible changes. This applies e.g. for monsters like the Cacodemon, but also items or props such as torches. This leads to problems when using this in combination with the Sprite Fixing Project which is probably on autoload for many users out there, resulting in glitches such as e.g. twitching torches in the outdoor area of MAP05 (or anywhere else where torches are used).

 

My suggestion therefore would be to remove any assets (graphics and sounds/music) from the wad you did not edit in any way. It will make the whole thing much more compatible with other projects and reduces filesize at least a bit.

[DASI-I]

56 minutes ago, NightFright said:

Something to consider for the next version:

I have taken a look inside of the wad and saw that apparently there are many duplicate/identical sprites from the original Doom 1+2 iwads without any visible changes. This applies e.g. for monsters like the Cacodemon, but also items or props such as torches. This leads to problems when using this in combination with the Sprite Fixing Project which is probably on autoload for many users out there, resulting in glitches such as e.g. twitching torches in the outdoor area of MAP05 (or anywhere else where torches are used).

 

My suggestion therefore would be to remove any assets (graphics and sounds/music) from the wad you did not edit in any way. It will make the whole thing much more compatible with other projects and reduces filesize at least a bit.

Not happening, as that will break compatibility with vanilla doom. When I mean Doom Zero is not compatible with other mods...it means Doom Zero is not compatible with other mods. The reason for it is because there actually are some modified assets in the WAD, and since many of those assets need to sit between the Start and End lumps in order for vanilla doom to function, everything, even duplicate sprites, have to be present there also. Yes, I know, it's inefficient but a necessary evil.
 

No doubt that the DEH (or a hacked exe file in DOS) or some other corresponding file may be the key to a solution but, really, that was a late addition and I didn't have time to do a lot of experimenting, and I don't have time to work on it now...unless someone pays me to make it worth my while. But more importantly, I think people are missing the point of what Doom Zero is: It is a full blown vanilla experience. it's meant to be played as if it came out in the 90s. Using a real software renderer. Pixelated textures. choppy frames, and all!

[NightFright]

Argh, then I guess I am playing it wrong. Using hardware renderer with brightmaps, bloom and all kinds of bling-bling. Technically it works ofc, but the experience won't be the same.

[DASI-I]

2 hours ago, NightFright said:

Argh, then I guess I am playing it wrong. Using hardware renderer with brightmaps, bloom and all kinds of bling-bling. Technically it works ofc, but the experience won't be the same.

 

I don't mind how you play it. I'm not one of those people that say "you can only play it like this!". I just don't want people to play the game and then encounter weird stuff (like a flying SS Nazi), it just ruins the experiance, not for me but more importantly for the player. It's fine using GZDoom and other crazy source ports (well, as long as you set the "adjust sprite clipping" to "smarter") that's fine. I've tested it with GZDoom.

Edited October 9, 2019 by DASI-I

[SOSU]

Aw man this looks really cool :O
Good job with the aesthetics!

[Horus]

Completed L11-L13. L13 was the first map I've played so far that I'd say I wasn't a huge fan of. Taking on an archvile with a chaingun and no cover isn't very fun, even with a berserk in the middle. The platforming on the other side of the key doors took me a long time to execute as well.

 

Demos attached, 9 for L11, 10 for L12, 11 & 12 for L13

doomzero4.zip

[Keyboard_Doomer]

Hello again,

we're going to finish our playthrough on TNS tonight.

 

We will play maps 16-30 of the most up-to-date version of the wad but otherwise everything is going to be the same as last week:
The session starts at 19:00 BST / 14:00 EDT and you can expect it to be fairly active for 4+ hours as we will play through the maps multiple times with various settings.
 

[NightFright]

Reached MAP15 so far, now playing in GZD with Crispy Doom-style settings, Nuked OPL3 music and no bling-bling mods at all. It's a blast, like a lost addon from 1995. Also liked the D1+2 references in MAP07. If the second half is like the first, it's a really great vanilla megawad.

[Horus]

Don't know if this demo will work for you to playback, had to save and load multiple times for this demo as L14 is so hard. The rising/falling floors at the start were frustrating (sometimes having to wait too long just to get to the next sector), the rest of the map was very hard but fair. Got to the end with over 60 monsters still not killed but guess that was by construction given the prevailing multiple choice theme of the wad so far.

doomzero5.zip

[Egg Boy]

This definitely feels like a project from the 90s, whether for better or worse. I'm 15 maps in, and much of the designs are puzzlers with strange progression. My favorite map so far was definitely map11, my least favorite was probably map14. 11 is a pretty fun romp through a doomcute city with nice visuals and some pretty good combat. 14 is frustrating, and a bit of a mess, especially the tunnels near the end, wherein the middle is a damaging floor and your confronted with constant hitscanners and mancubus. A lot of the maps remind me of Sandy Peterson maps that didn't quite make the cut for Doom 2. Lots of unique and memorable stuff, that is unfortunately, often combined with frustrating, and confusing level design. Your goal seems to have been to make a mapset to match Final Doom's 2. And indeed, it sometimes does feel like TNT: Evilution, however, that carries the burdens as well as the blessings. 

[DASI-I]

Thanks Horus and Egg Boy. This is useful info. I will make some changes to map 14.

[D4NUK1]

I'm on the half on the wad, and im really digging to play more of this style of WAD

Nice use of mechanics and level design without make everything monsters galore.

Also,so,o creepy level the super secret level, it's just feel like creepy pasta.

 

Spoiler

Map 7 it's unique, hall of echos its fun to replay just to go to the others doors.

Map 31 being a mash-up of wolf 3D, DOOM, DOOM II, Quake and Quake II it's feel really odd, also bizarre to play with textures being meat.

Going try to best in this weekend :,P

Playing on Doom:Retro uwu

[Horus]

More demos, but warning they're probably not the most exciting to watch, so I'll summarise below:

 

L15 - The first half of this map is really tight on ammo. Like really really tight. The first playthrough I got myself into an impossible situation where I couldn't progress because I had no ammo left to hit the projectile-activating switch. Then all of a sudden in the second half, ammo is abundant and really not a problem anymore. Not a huge fan of the very cramped mancubus/revenant/HK battles in the multi-key area. It took me way too long to figure out the puzzles on this map, but that's on me and the puzzles are totally fine as is.

 

L31 - The difficulty on this is really unbalanced on a pistol start. The start is extremely difficult. I worked out soon enough that the ammo you get isn't enough to kill all the enemies in the opening area, even with infighting, but it was still a mission to collect all the weapons, get the RK and get safely into the next room without being killed. They aren't all in the demo attached but it took me many many tries. And once you clear that opening area, again the map gets way easier. Again, ammo is no longer a problem (especially if you get the secrets like I did). I'm not sold on the position of the megasphere secret. It's right at the end of the level when you have already killed all of the enemies. I guess the intention is that the player gets it before attacking the archviles; I'm not sure the likelihood of the player actually doing that though, probably more likely to seek cover against them and snipe them dead. Finally, I could never get to the super secret level, because I set off the trigger to raise the platform to get to the other BK door, but I did not have the BK. Once I got the BK I returned, but the trigger wasn't repeatable so I couldn't get back to that door. Am I missing something or is this a bug? I know this all sounds negative, so on the positive side I'd say the concept of the map (a hellish version of classic Doom / Doom 2 maps) is actually a really interesting one, and most of the fights I didn't mention above were pretty good.

 

So I'm now half way through, and I would say the wad started really well, all of L3-L12 were great maps. Sadly since then some frustrations have set in, here's hoping the second half is more like the start

doomzero6.zip

[LowGcifer]

Hehehe, finished MAP30. Now I see why it's called Doom Zero... very clever! Great job! This was a very fun WAD. I definitely will be replaying this. 

[tmorrow]

13 hours ago, Horus said:

Once I got the BK I returned, but the trigger wasn't repeatable so I couldn't get back to that door. Am I missing something or is this a bug?

 

The trigger is repeatable (on the current release).

 

Spoiler

You have to go back to the small room with the teleporter (that took you to the blue key) and instead of taking the teleporter, action the back wall to relower the sector you couldn't get back onto. Return to area leading to the super secret and raise your marine back up to the super secret blue door again.

 

[Horus]

52 minutes ago, tmorrow said:

 

The trigger is repeatable (on the current release).

 

  Reveal hidden contents

You have to go back to the small room with the teleporter (that took you to the blue key) and instead of taking the teleporter, action the back wall to relower the sector you couldn't get back onto. Return to area leading to the super secret and raise your marine back up to the super secret blue door again.

 

Thanks, got it!

[DASI-I]

7 hours ago, tmorrow said:

 

The trigger is repeatable (on the current release).

 

  Hide contents

You have to go back to the small room with the teleporter (that took you to the blue key) and instead of taking the teleporter, action the back wall to relower the sector you couldn't get back onto. Return to area leading to the super secret and raise your marine back up to the super secret blue door again.

 

 

6 hours ago, Horus said:

Thanks, got it!

 

Yeah so I never changed this secret at all in the update. There are actually 2 ways of opening this secret. shoot the textured wall in the teleport room or press it. shooting it is not repeatable but it can be pressed repeatedly.

[Doomsday]

Woah this looks really good I like the whole vanilla doom style of this wad.

[tmorrow]

I tested the DoomZero in gzdoom 4.2.1, UV difficulty pistol starting each map. This is one amazing megawad and seems to be highly polished, I really couldn't find anything wrong with any of the maps (and I was looking out for problems). All maps are uvmaxable and 100% k/i/s obtainable. The difficulty curve stays fairly steady throughout with the exception of the map29 boss fight.

The secret hunt is a big part of this mapset, with 197 secrets in all or over 6 secrets on average per map. There are some tricky ones too.

 

Spoiler

After my first pass of the maps I thought that 3 of the maps required archvile jumps, but I was fooled by the map designers sneakiness and there are other intended methods of finding those secrets (thanks for someone tipping me off on two of the maps). No archvile jumps are required for any of the secrets in the mapset.

For the most part I found the fights, encounters, monster placements to be quite fair. The worst cases were on map18-19 where enemies would approach you in the distance and then suddenly teleport behind you.

Progression at some point requires you to solve a puzzle or some platforming, but most doom vets should be able to get by.

Ammo is a little tight on some maps for the pistol starter. The two worst offenders being at the beginning of map31 (have to cause a lot of infighting from the side rooms with the wall of barons outside) and map17 where you end up having to berserk fist 3 barons before ammo becomes available. Unless the ammo starvation is intentional, I'd consider adding a bit more ammo at the start of those 2 maps (possibly taking some away from later parts of the maps to maintain ammo balance).

The only map I had trouble with is the boss room on map29. It makes sense that this is a challenging encounter since it is the final boss showdown, but it is quite a bit harder than I expected. My overall conclusion is that the addition of another second to the shield down time would still result in a challenging fight with a chance to still succeed with bad rng on the monster spawns. As it is now, bad spawns are a killer that you can't recover from and are likely to occur after you've been in the boss chamber for a minute or two.

 

I'd like to see the DWMC select this megawad to play through some time soon!

Edited October 15, 2019 by tmorrow : updated the archvile jump secrets and spoilered it

[Sparktimus]

A lot of these maps are very Sandy-esque, and I mean that in the best way possible. I love this so far.

[Horus]

Demos of L32, and L16-L20 (what can I say, the L16 barrel puzzle wasn't my strong point..!)

 

L32 was an interesting concept, certainly is creepy alright. I actually found ammo on L17 fine, the shells/chaingun ammo was enough to slay the 3 barons. The positioning of the health bonuses and computer map looks a little odd though. Still generally good maps but I prefer the earlier ones.

doomzero7.zip

[DASI-I]

Working on version 1.2 that will have many of the fixes that you guys mentioned.

 

On 10/14/2019 at 2:24 PM, tmorrow said:

The two worst offenders being at the beginning of map31 (have to cause a lot of infighting from the side rooms with the wall of barons outside) and map17 where you end up having to berserk fist 3 barons before ammo becomes available.

 

Map31 definitely needed a little more ammo because 2 of the boxes of shells were accidentally removed in 1.0 and 1.1. this will be fixed in versions 1.2
As for map17, there actually is enough ammo to take out all the monsters leading up to the barons, and after that you will still have some to spare, especially if you choose to ignore the arch-vile that is doing nothing.